Personal computing discussed

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What amounts of RAM would you consider normal for 6C or 8C Ryzen?

8 GB
2 (3%)
16 GB
34 (44%)
32 GB
28 (36%)
64 GB
3 (4%)
640K ought to be gouda enough for anybody
10 (13%)
 
Total votes: 77
 
synthtel2
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Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:07 pm

A comment over on the front page got me curious about opinions on this. Of course, it's a very fuzzy question that's very dependent on your workload, so don't take it too seriously. I think I've set up the poll so you can hit as many options as you want, so just pick any that seem reasonable, I guess.
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:14 pm

Um, your poll is missing an option.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:15 pm

Potato?

I'm for 16GB. 32 may be necessary for certain workloads, but I'm thinking 16 will probably be more common.
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synthtel2
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:22 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Um, your poll is missing an option.

I got cheese, 4GB is basically cheese, non-power-of-two is basically cheese, UDIMMs only appear to go to 16GB each, and AFAIK X370 boards only go to four slots. I don't believe I follow?

Edit, waitaminute, I forgot what day it is, didn't I? :lol:
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:38 pm

Of note: given that Ryzen is particularly sensitive to RAM speeds and is particularly difficult to stabilize at higher RAM speeds, 16GB in a 2x8GB configuration with fast DIMMs appears to be the 'optimum' high-performance configuration, and thus represents a limitation for those trying to squeeze performance out of Ryzen with larger datasets.

This isn't a limitation for gaming, but as those that are eyeing Ryzen as a dual-purpose high-speed gaming and HPC workstation setup it could be a problem.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:47 pm

More is almost always better, and covers up bad IO performance.

If you can get the same clocks with more density (which is a long shot) it's absolutely worth it if you care about load times.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 12:54 am

I've been using 16GB of memory in my current machines (Macs/PCs/laptops) for the past 5 years and I clearly see that 16GB is not enough based upon my usage pattern (gaming/workstation usage).

I'm currently waiting on 1800X system parts to arrive from NICX. I spec'ed out 32GB.
Last edited by End User on Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:28 am

I've had 16GB in my i5-2500K system for more than 5 years now. For my purposes, 16GB would actually still be enough at the moment, as I'm not much of a content creator. That said, I'd definitely go for 32GB in any new system I'd buy for myself
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:47 am

I use 8 gigs right now in my Haswell Corei5. 16 would be nice but most of the time 8 for me is fine. I'd only upgrade to 16 for longevity's sake as well as the occasional bit of software I use where 16 would be nice(Mostly 7-zip).
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:17 am

Why would RAM amount depend on CPU choice? Shouldn't this just be "How much RAM would you want if you were building a system today?"
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:27 am

Chrome managed to eat up all my 8 gigs. Thanks to TR Vancouver stopped-by-parking-garage-cop meetup (fun times :D), I upgraded to 16. Still Chrome ate it all up as if it was nobody's business. My next system should be 32 at a minimum.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:16 am

Flying Fox wrote:
Chrome managed to eat up all my 8 gigs. Thanks to TR Vancouver stopped-by-parking-garage-cop meetup (fun times :D), I upgraded to 16. Still Chrome ate it all up as if it was nobody's business. My next system should be 32 at a minimum.

That sounds absolutely ridiculous. Do you have 500 tabs open or just have ridiculously bad plugins installed?
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:26 am

When I had 16GB (previous build) the only time I had any RAM pressure was when running VMs, and when running buggy applications with memory leaks. Chrome did not cause any problems, even with lots of windows/tabs open. My current system has 32GB, and I can honestly say I have never found myself saying "gee, it would be nice if I had more RAM right now". (Which is fortunate, since the mobo maxes out at 32GB...)

I have seen Chrome cause paging on systems with 4 or 8GB.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:08 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Why would RAM amount depend on CPU choice? Shouldn't this just be "How much RAM would you want if you were building a system today?"

because people buying more capable CPUs probably want to do more demanding stuff with them, which is exactly how AMD advertised Ryzen vs Skylake and why they were recommended for high end builds in the last Tech Report System Guide. Think gaming + content creator stuff instead of just gaming, if those extra cores are going to be put to work on stuff whilst the rest take care of a game, you'll probably need quite a bit more RAM
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:30 pm

... and the reason you're buying that CPU is for the intended workload, no?

My intended workload would mostly be video encoding. I wouldn't need 32GB of memory for that. The current machine is headless with xfce installed on it just in case I need it, so I could get by with 8 and the CPU would be perfectly happy with that. If plans were to change in the future though I'd probably end up putting at least another 8 in it anyway.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:59 pm

Redocbew wrote:
... and the reason you're buying that CPU is for the intended workload, no?

My intended workload would mostly be video encoding. I wouldn't need 32GB of memory for that. The current machine is headless with xfce installed on it just in case I need it, so I could get by with 8 and the CPU would be perfectly happy with that. If plans were to change in the future though I'd probably end up putting at least another 8 in it anyway.


Yep each workload is unique. Just because something uses 8-16 cores/threads doesn't necessarily mean it will need a lot of memory. That being said getting a bit more than you need for future-proofing never hurts.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:22 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Why would RAM amount depend on CPU choice? Shouldn't this just be "How much RAM would you want if you were building a system today?"

I fully agree, but not everyone seems to, and that's the biggest reason this poll exists.
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 2:52 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Why would RAM amount depend on CPU choice? Shouldn't this just be "How much RAM would you want if you were building a system today?"

I fully agree, but not everyone seems to, and that's the biggest reason this poll exists.

Well in my case, if I was building a Ryzen mITX box using the 1700 CPU as I mentioned earlier I would go with 32GB of memory myself.
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:01 pm

Well of course you had RAM issues running VMs on 16gb JBI, how many chrome instances were you running on each guest OS!? If running virtual machines (plural) then I can easily see going over 16GB easy, if you're actually using the host machine with it's own OS.

As for me, my general rule of thumb is to always go with the one step down from the highest capacity DIMMS as they are generally cheaper at that time. Assuming 4 slots on the board for memory, I populate 2 of them to allow for 2 more to be added during the life of the system IF it is needed.

Still running 16GB on my i5-2500k and it was the best purchase ever. Ever now and then I see my RAM cap over 10GB while gaming, surfing, discord/teamspeak and a few other things. Short of specialty cases that are RAM dependent, this method has proven to work great for me.

Side note, I think it's clear in computing these days, 8GB of RAM can easily be saturated. Also, you don't want to run your RAM 100% capped out. I go with the 80% rule.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:07 pm

Welch wrote:
Well of course you had RAM issues running VMs on 16gb JBI, how many chrome instances were you running on each guest OS!? If running virtual machines (plural) then I can easily see going over 16GB easy, if you're actually using the host machine with it's own OS.

My point was that I didn't have problems with Chrome in 16GB, unless I was also running VMs.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 3:40 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Welch wrote:
Well of course you had RAM issues running VMs on 16gb JBI, how many chrome instances were you running on each guest OS!? If running virtual machines (plural) then I can easily see going over 16GB easy, if you're actually using the host machine with it's own OS.

My point was that I didn't have problems with Chrome in 16GB, unless I was also running VMs.


I was giving you a hard time lol. As though you were doing nothing but running Chrome in a multitude of VMs. But yeah, I agree. 16gb goes a long way still.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:05 pm

VMs is the only time I really ever see any pressure on RAM, but I've got VMs running 40+ hours a week these days. I've got a pair of Win10 guests that I want to give 8GB each running while I work—one for an MSSQL server with a testing DB and another running IIS to host web services. I could get away with 24GB but 2x4GB DIMMs to reach that non-power-of-two amount seems like a bad use of money these days. That's why I went with 2x16. They're dual-rank DIMMs but I can still get them up to 2933 MHz. I haven't gone as far as setting core affinity for each VM, but I've given each of them 4 logical CPU cores. It's probably overkill all around (especially since they also sit on a 480GB SSD) but now I know if I'm waiting on something, the problem is me. :lol:

So I went with 32 in the poll, but like lots of folks, I expect 16GB to be the sweet spot where most of the respondents answer. And someone has a broken Chrome install. I mean, it eats RAM, but I've *never* seen Chrome total up to more than 1.2 or 1.5GB.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:17 pm

I bought 16GB for my 1600/1600x build, will look to upgrade to 32GB later on when RAM prices come down and issues with Ryzen and RAM speed have been ironed out.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:02 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
So I went with 32 in the poll, but like lots of folks, I expect 16GB to be the sweet spot where most of the respondents answer. And someone has a broken Chrome install. I mean, it eats RAM, but I've *never* seen Chrome total up to more than 1.2 or 1.5GB.

I've seen it use more, but that was a couple of years ago. It seems to have gotten better.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Tue Apr 04, 2017 10:35 am

I'd be surprised if I had any reason to go above 16GB in the next ten years, heh. we'll see.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Tue Apr 04, 2017 5:55 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Why would RAM amount depend on CPU choice? Shouldn't this just be "How much RAM would you want if you were building a system today?"
Yeah, 16GB seems to be enough for my last couple of builds. But I might go with 32GB for a new Ryzen build just to future proof.

Question: We all know that for the fastest DDR4 times these systems are limited to two sticks of DDR4. Is this true for the high end Intel motherboards that have the memory slots on opposite sides of the CPU socket? e.g. can they only have one stick on each side? I'm curious whether balancing the DDR traces to both sides of the CPU can let you have more memory sticks than two stable at higher frequencies.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:55 pm

HEDT systems have the slots on both sides because they're quad-channel, so four sticks becomes the minimum to get a full-width path to memory (and it's really tough to run that many traces under that kind of load to slots on just one side). OCs might theoretically be slightly better when not using all RAM channels, but it should be unnoticable to all but the most extreme overclockers, and the bandwidth penalty for not using all channels is massive.

It seems like there might be some gains in setting up a dual-channel system to have one or two slots on each side, but I'm not an EE and haven't done any math for such a thing, and the packaging challenges that introduces would probably be a much bigger deal.
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:20 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
HEDT systems have the slots on both sides because they're quad-channel, so four sticks becomes the minimum to get a full-width path to memory (and it's really tough to run that many traces under that kind of load to slots on just one side). OCs might theoretically be slightly better when not using all RAM channels, but it should be unnoticable to all but the most extreme overclockers, and the bandwidth penalty for not using all channels is massive.

It seems like there might be some gains in setting up a dual-channel system to have one or two slots on each side, but I'm not an EE and haven't done any math for such a thing, and the packaging challenges that introduces would probably be a much bigger deal.

The pinout on the CPU likely has all memory related pins on one side which would make the memory slots on one channel potentially longer if you put the memory channels on different sides.

For extreme memory overclocking, you want 2 DIMM slots on each channel placed as close to the socket as possible like the Asus Maximus Apex IX Z270.
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:57 pm

I'm sure I've seen a full-size, high-end board somewhere that had only two memory slots extra-close to the socket on the theory it made for better overclocking. It doesn't make much sense that a couple of redundant slots would help with anything.

Putting one slot on each side might increase trace lengths for one side slightly, but the extra space for traces could allow for reduced interference and maybe capacitance.
 
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Re: Poll: Ryzen RAM amounts

Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:20 pm

Things get really weird at the kind of memory and I/O speeds we deal with these days. The physical length of the bits flying down the wires in your memory bus are comparable to the length of the wires themselves. Any changes in the impedance of the wires (due to proximity to other wires or ground/power planes, sharp bends, discontinuities caused by sockets, etc.) can distort these fleeting impulses and cause errors.

It's a bit mind-bending to realize that your SATA cables contain multiple bits in flight simultaneously, strung out along the length of the cable and chasing each other at near (within a factor of 2 of) the speed of light. Intuitively, electricity isn't supposed to behave this way. It's all RF voodoo at this point, and pretty amazing to me that it works at all.
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