Personal computing discussed

Moderators: Flying Fox, Thresher

 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:35 am

So I've ordered the 4 x Ryzen 3 2200G APUs for these small little builds to go into classrooms at a vocational training center. Only problem is, I don't have a spare Ryzen CPU to drop into these to upgrade the BIOS to 3803 to support the new Raven Ridge CPUs that go into them.

So, for science (and TR) I'm going to test for you if I can in fact boot without an update and perhaps a dedicated GPU. I'm suspecting that since these are the same Zen cores as all current Ryzen chips, that the boards will recognize the CPU portion, but not the GPU.

I'll post back with my findings, this may just be a big waste of time. If I fail, my only option will be to canabalize my 1600x out of my main rig and flash all 4 boards. Not something I'm looking forward to doing.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 24437
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:44 am

Well, at least you have a fallback option. Would be super frustrating to buy a mobo and APU and not be able to use it unless you had a Ryzen CPU to flash with, though. Hopefully it works out of the box.
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 18148
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:45 am

How long does it usually take for the stock of motherboards to turn over so that they are delivered to you with a newer BIOS?

Perhaps a $60 Bristol Ridge APU would be a useful tool for you if you end up needing to flash a bunch of Socket-AM4 motherboards to accept new Raven Ridge APUs?
i7-8700K, H100i v2, RoG Strix Z370-G Gaming, 16 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51358
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:53 am

It has probably been close to a decade since I've had a board that wouldn't even POST due to the BIOS not recognizing the CPU. Not saying it still doesn't happen sometimes, but I'm guessing you'll probably be OK.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:02 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
How long does it usually take for the stock of motherboards to turn over so that they are delivered to you with a newer BIOS?

Perhaps a $60 Bristol Ridge APU would be a useful tool for you if you end up needing to flash a bunch of Socket-AM4 motherboards to accept new Raven Ridge APUs?


With previous releases in the last few years it was usually only a few months, always had no issue. Considering the nature of these AMD launches I'm suspecting a bit longer, assuming you buy from someone like Newegg and Amazon who goes through a lot of boards and doesn't sit on inventory for 1/2 a year.

I did look at those Bristol Ridge APUs and decided against it. I have a feeling I'll have a break between builds after these and by the time it picks up the BIOS will be coming on boards, not to mention I may not be building an AMD or Raven Ridge specific system for some time depending on customers.

Here is to hoping, going to try it with IGP on the board graphics ports first just to see. The trick will be if I can realiably POST and also flash the CMOS.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
Bauxite
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:10 pm
Location: electrolytic redox smelting plant

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:11 am

BIOS flasher tools start around $20 (soic clip = no desoldering) and tend to pay for themselves in time and systems saved rather quickly. Don't buy a "cheap" cpu just for one socket, do it for every platform ;)
TR 1950x 16c32t - 2018: Pretty much done with intel on the desktop.
E5 2696v4 22c44t 2.2~3.7Ghz - The last great gleam of the pre-nerf HEDT era.
E5 1680v2 8c16t 4.5Ghz - "Yes Virginia, there were unlocked xeons" /weep for them.
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2391
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:23 am

just brew it! wrote:
It has probably been close to a decade since I've had a board that wouldn't even POST due to the BIOS not recognizing the CPU. Not saying it still doesn't happen sometimes, but I'm guessing you'll probably be OK.

This. Although I was chided in the comments section that Intel boards aren't anywhere near as reliable about "unsupported" CPUs working well enough to flash.
Z170A Gaming Pro Carbon | 6700K @ 4.4 | 16 GB | GTX Titan Xm | Seasonic Gold 850 | XSPC RX360 | Heatkiller R3 | D5 + RP-452X2 | Cosmos II | Samsung 4K 40" | 2048 + 240 + LSI 9207-8i (128x8) SSDs
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51358
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:31 am

Bauxite wrote:
BIOS flasher tools start around $20 (soic clip = no desoldering) and tend to pay for themselves in time and systems saved rather quickly. Don't buy a "cheap" cpu just for one socket, do it for every platform ;)

Hmm... going to have to look into getting one of these. Any recommendations?
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
DPete27
Silver subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3450
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:39 am

Pretty sure you don't need to even have the CPU installed to update the BIOS on recent Asus boards. (see Asus USB BIOS Flashback)

In fact, most mobo manufacturers offer this feature nowadays.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:11 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Bauxite wrote:
BIOS flasher tools start around $20 (soic clip = no desoldering) and tend to pay for themselves in time and systems saved rather quickly. Don't buy a "cheap" cpu just for one socket, do it for every platform ;)

Hmm... going to have to look into getting one of these. Any recommendations?


Yeah, I'm intrigued too Bauxite, where and what?

DPete, you are correct but if you look under the list of boards, only a handful support the BIOS flashback feature. It is intended only for higher end boards. There are lots of x370 boards that don't have it and from the looks of it no B350 boards that do. What a shame.

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/asus-b ... e-apu.html
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51358
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Mon Feb 12, 2018 2:37 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Pretty sure you don't need to even have the CPU installed to update the BIOS on recent Asus boards. (see Asus USB BIOS Flashback)

In fact, most mobo manufacturers offer this feature nowadays.

IIRC it is only on the high-end models though.

Edit: Oops, I see Welch already pointed that out.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 18148
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:07 pm

i7-8700K, H100i v2, RoG Strix Z370-G Gaming, 16 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:41 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
https://techreport.com/news/33245/psa-old-stock-amd-am4-boards-might-not-boot-with-ryzen-apus
Ruh roh...


Double ruh roh.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
layerup
Gerbil
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:58 pm

From the TR article https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articl ... ootup.aspx

My 2400G should be arriving tomorrow, I will not be home when it comes, hopefully it will still be on the front porch when I get home from work. I will try to update this thread if I am able to find a solution.
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:46 am

layerup wrote:
From the TR article https://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articl ... ootup.aspx

My 2400G should be arriving tomorrow, I will not be home when it comes, hopefully it will still be on the front porch when I get home from work. I will try to update this thread if I am able to find a solution.


Great, what board with what BIOS revision if you know?

Most of these boards that I booted up we're bought about a month ago and they had revision 801.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
layerup
Gerbil
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 6:41 pm

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:10 am

Welch wrote:
Great, what board with what BIOS revision if you know?
Most of these boards that I booted up we're bought about a month ago and they had revision 801.


Uhh, I believe I bought the Gigabyte AB350 for around 50$ from amazon after rebate at the beginning of the month (Of course, I need to make sure the thing works before I can submit for the rebate). As far as the UEFI revision, that I do not know, I guess I will find out when the APU arrives. My original plan was to try to boot with a GPU and install the revision that way, and if not, call around some local shops and try and price out a loaner Ryzen. But with the bootkit AMD is offering, I will likely pursue that route if I am unable to get the motherboard to POST.
 
toki
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 279
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:55 pm

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:08 pm

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/tech/cpus/ ... -buyers/1/

just read a different article for this, but wanted to give you a link. hope this might be what you're looking for
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:52 pm

I've started the process of getting the boot kit from AMD. I figured between this release, and future releases with Ryzen 2, who knows how many times I've need an AM4 to flash.

Curious if they are just low end Ryzen 3 chips, or perhaps a stunted version of a Ryzen 3 (1 core?) to prevent people from wanting to use them for anything other than booting. Maybe silicon that failed many tests and did'nt make it to market.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 18148
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:46 pm

Do you expect that it''ll be a Summit Ridge CPU rather than a Bristol Ridge APU?
i7-8700K, H100i v2, RoG Strix Z370-G Gaming, 16 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51358
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:04 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Do you expect that it''ll be a Summit Ridge CPU rather than a Bristol Ridge APU?

Summit Ridge would be problematic since some of the people experiencing the problem won't have a GPU. I'm betting on a bottom-end Bristol Ridge APU.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:53 am

That is a good point... A cut down/hardware throttled Bristol APU makes sense for compatibility with the earliest of BIOS revisions and provides an IGP as JBI suggested.

I just have a feeling that they will be intentionally hampered to avoid people trying to request one for a free CPU that is actually useable.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
MileageMayVary
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:18 am
Location: Baltimore

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:45 pm

AMD probably has a pile of Excavator AM4s doing nothing. Might as well do something useful with them.
Main rig: Ryzen 1600, R9 290@1100MHz, 16GB@2933MHz, 1080-1440-1080 Ultrasharps.
 
Bauxite
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 759
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:10 pm
Location: electrolytic redox smelting plant

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:00 pm

Google "soic clip", click on images. Something something thousand words.

Why these are not common knowledge to all the review sites and forums pretending that new cpus on old boards needing a bios update is "news" or some kind of juicy revelation? I don't know, but I bet I could write something catchy about it that people will click on...
TR 1950x 16c32t - 2018: Pretty much done with intel on the desktop.
E5 2696v4 22c44t 2.2~3.7Ghz - The last great gleam of the pre-nerf HEDT era.
E5 1680v2 8c16t 4.5Ghz - "Yes Virginia, there were unlocked xeons" /weep for them.
 
hansmuff
Gerbil
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 7:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:15 pm

 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51358
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:35 pm

Bauxite wrote:
Google "soic clip", click on images. Something something thousand words.

Why these are not common knowledge to all the review sites and forums pretending that new cpus on old boards needing a bios update is "news" or some kind of juicy revelation? I don't know, but I bet I could write something catchy about it that people will click on...

It is useful to know ahead of time that you may have an issue.

A lot of people won't be comfortable messing with the SOIC clip and external programmer (I would be, but I'm not everyone), and if they don't have these items already then it is something they will need to buy and learn how to use.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:09 am

Incase you guys missed it, since I'm moving WAY to slow on this... AMD offers up those kits we we're talking about.

The chip in question has been confirmed to be a AMD A6-9500, a dual core part that is meant to be shipped back afterwards. However, it was reported that you are meant to keep the CPU heatsink that is sent to you, even though it is not really useful as it isn't Ryzen compatible? Interesting either way.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51358
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:53 am

Yeah, the bit about keeping the HSF is bizarre. Either they've got a lifetime supply of them stockpiled somewhere and don't care about getting them back, or the beancounters decided that paying return shipping for the HSF was more cost and trouble than it was worth (it's likely a pretty low-end part that costs them less than $3 to manufacture).
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Welch
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Topic Author
Posts: 3578
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 5:45 pm
Location: Alaska
Contact:

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:35 am

just brew it! wrote:
Yeah, the bit about keeping the HSF is bizarre. Either they've got a lifetime supply of them stockpiled somewhere and don't care about getting them back, or the beancounters decided that paying return shipping for the HSF was more cost and trouble than it was worth (it's likely a pretty low-end part that costs them less than $3 to manufacture).


Yeah, it's a bit bizarre. I'm curious how long they want to give me to return it... I was hoping they would let me keep it indefinitely for the Ryzen 2 release to upgrade the rogue 3xx series board that sat in inventory and never got flashed. It's not like after buying a couple $1000 worth of AMD equipment that I need a dual core APU! Hopefully I can plead the case that I run a shop and it would cost them more in shipping to send me out the kit again.
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943

1600x | Strix B350-F | CM 240 Lite | 16GB 3200 | MSI 7850 | 850 EVO | Corsair 400R | Seasonic X 850 | Corsair M95 / K90 | Sennheiser PC37x
 
ptsant
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:45 pm

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Sat Feb 17, 2018 3:15 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Yeah, the bit about keeping the HSF is bizarre. Either they've got a lifetime supply of them stockpiled somewhere and don't care about getting them back, or the beancounters decided that paying return shipping for the HSF was more cost and trouble than it was worth (it's likely a pretty low-end part that costs them less than $3 to manufacture).


I realized that, at least in Europe, the DHL shipment for a CPU (without HSF) is already over $50. AMD was paying. Your second hypothesis is probably right.
Image
 
MileageMayVary
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:18 am
Location: Baltimore

Re: Asus B350M-E + R3 2200G No BIOS Flash

Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:12 pm

They want the chips back?

Doesn't make sense to me. I've already joked about them not being able to sell these chips but...

The people doing these are enthusiasts generally, they might very well take the extra chip and build another system with it be it a NAS box or a basic game system for a child or an Office machine for their mom. Seems it would be better to try to get more systems (and sell more motherboards) out there.
Main rig: Ryzen 1600, R9 290@1100MHz, 16GB@2933MHz, 1080-1440-1080 Ultrasharps.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests