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olegtf
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DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:41 am

Old Optiplex7010. 2X4Gb PC3 12800, DDR3 SDRAM 1600Mhz, nonECC, 240pin sticks. looking at e-bay to get two more sticks with identical characteristics. Most of the "low end" kits with this requirements specifically state in description AMD only, or NOT compatible with any Intel MOBO. Is there any real technical reason for such statements? Or "just because"? may be I am missing something (probably) but I highly doubt that memory stick can recognize hardware it being plug-into.
 
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:50 am

I've never ran into a RAM compatibility issue (as long as you've got the correct generation: DDR2/DDR3/DDR4). That said, in my personal opinion, Kingston is typically the best bet for compatibility.

Add: Do a quick check of the voltage of the existing and new RAM. Most DDR3-1600 is 1.5V, but doesn't hurt to make sure. In regards to timing, the PC will run all RAM at the lowest common denominator. DDR3-1600 is very common, so it shouldn't be hard to get a kit that matches yours.
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olegtf
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:00 am

I tried to insert picture, but it didn't work :-( Here is the description in txt format.
Buyer note:This item is only compatible with AMD cpu motherboard.It can not work in any intel cpu motherboard.Please make sure you buy a right item.
• 4GB PC3-12800 1600MHZ
• DDR3 DIMM
• High density,Fully compatible
• Original Chips
• 240Pins, Desktop amd Memory
• 1.5V,CL11
• Superior quality and best price
• Unbuffered, Non-ECC, Non-Registered
• Fully tested
• Lifetime Warranty

According to the sceps its exactly what I need, but for some reason even warranty label on the picture has "AMD ONLY" after serial number. Hence my question.

Just read your addition, well, we're talking about double in price difference. When you multiply by the amount of computers in the building it does make difference. Voltages O'K.
 
Waco
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:26 am

I would expect it to work perfectly in Intel or AMD systems. The DRAM doesn't know the difference and it appears to be standard DDR3...
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olegtf
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:34 am

I concur, but...
Image

Image
 
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:16 am

Maybe the SPD isn't programmed properly in a way that breaks many Intel systems but happens to run OK on a Bulldozer setup?
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olegtf
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:31 am

Have no idea, read one of the comments, that someone installed "AMD only" set on Intel MOBO and it worked. But really don't trust much anymore, since friend of mine got part time job commenting on amazon and e-bay. :-(
Well, I thought may be someone already had real life experience swapping those sticks across the platforms, I guess the only way to find out is to risk few bucks...
P.S. Considering quantities and variety of "AMD only" sticks all over the places, I highly doubt it was a mistake. Its production batches of various configurations.
 
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:37 am

During that era, the initial batch of Ivy Bridge CPUs like the one in your system notably did not like higher RAM voltages that the contemporary AMD processors could handle. Ivy Bridge was rated for 1.35 V but tolerated 1.5 V memory. Both of those kits are rated at 1.5 V. Do the DIMMs have different numbers of components (8 vs. 16 memory chips)? That would present a different load to the CPU's memory controller.

Crucial's memory advisor mostly recommends DDR3L (1.35 V) memory for your system.
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/compatibl ... -factor%29
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:42 am

Look closer. The "AMD" stick is 2rx4, while the "omni" stick is 2rx8. Inside the DIMM packages, the AMD stick has twice as many physical DRAM chips as the "omni" stick. If the mobo isn't set up to handle that, the RAM won't work.
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Waco
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:02 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Look closer. The "AMD" stick is 2rx4, while the "omni" stick is 2rx8. Inside the DIMM packages, the AMD stick has twice as many physical DRAM chips as the "omni" stick. If the mobo isn't set up to handle that, the RAM won't work.

Dual rank DIMMs with denser or less dense chips shouldn't make much of a difference in terms of compatibility. Personally, I'd get the "AMD Only" sticks especially given the price difference as a test - if they work, fill out all the machines.

They're at the upper edge of "old" Intel memory support voltage, but they should work just fine.
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olegtf
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:04 pm

I saw that one. Original sticks have 1RX8, direct replacement (working pull) sold from US shops have both 2RX4 and 2RX8 on the labels.
But, like I said previously, in sizable quantities, and with price difference the only viable option is Chinese manufacturers or resellers. MOBo manual from DELL useles.
P.S. Some AMD only sticks don't have that at all :-(
Last edited by olegtf on Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
olegtf
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:06 pm

Waco wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Look closer. The "AMD" stick is 2rx4, while the "omni" stick is 2rx8. Inside the DIMM packages, the AMD stick has twice as many physical DRAM chips as the "omni" stick. If the mobo isn't set up to handle that, the RAM won't work.

Dual rank DIMMs with denser or less dense chips shouldn't make much of a difference in terms of compatibility. Personally, I'd get the "AMD Only" sticks especially given the price difference as a test - if they work, fill out all the machines.

They're at the upper edge of "old" Intel memory support voltage, but they should work just fine.

I am leaning towards that option too, just wanted to know if anyone already went that route to minimize risks. Thanks to everybody for suggestions.
 
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:12 pm

The key phrase in that ad is high-density. Sandy and Ivy Bridge only supported up to 4gbit chips, which we would today consider low-density. Core 2 chipsets only supported 2gbit chips for DDR3 which today would be considered very low-density, while Ivy-E and newer Intel, + all AMD support high-density 8gbit chips. So that "AMD Only" DDR3 should work fine in any 4xxx+ Intel too.

It's a problem that arose from DDR3 being around for 10 whole years and Intel being more about planned obsolescence than forward-thinking (Intel after all was the company that gave us 64MB cacheable limits and then a 512MB max limit for consumer platforms released as late as 2001, the same year as XP). Need more memory than that? Buy a new processor and chipset from us.

Sometimes high-density will actually work on boards that only take low-density, but only half of the capacity is seen. And it may not always be possible to just count chips because some chip packages contain more than one logical unit (with BGA you can't count the legs either like you could in the days of 72-pin SIMMs), so go by the datasheets if there are any markings on the chips.
 
olegtf
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:17 pm

bfg-9000 wrote:
The key phrase in that ad is high-density. Sandy and Ivy Bridge only supported up to 4gbit chips, which we would today consider low-density. Core 2 chipsets only supported 2gbit chips for DDR3 which today would be considered very low-density, while Ivy-E and newer Intel, + all AMD support high-density 8gbit chips. So that "AMD Only" DDR3 should work fine in any 4xxx+ Intel too.
...

Thank you, I want to ask few semi-dumb questions, just to make myself feel better, but ... $26 is good price for knowledge.
 
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:58 pm

bfg-9000 wrote:
The key phrase in that ad is high-density. Sandy and Ivy Bridge only supported up to 4gbit chips, which we would today consider low-density.

It amazes me how much one can forget in a few years. :/

It also amazes me how often Intel chipsets/memory controllers have very odd gotchas that are easy to forget a few years down the road. :(
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:12 pm

Waco wrote:
It also amazes me how often Intel chipsets/memory controllers have very odd gotchas

Yeah, like having to pay a premium for Samsung B-Die RAM and/or being limited to 2 sticks of RAM to achieve even DDR4-3200....(ahem...AMD Ryzen)
Not saying Intel isn't without it's flaws, but its harder to predict x years into the future of RAM than it is to simply support what's currently on the market.
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olegtf
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:46 pm

Just in case anyone cares. Out of 117 dells in the building 68 took new sticks without any problems at all. 40 required some swapping and the rest had to live with pulls from other boxes. Thank you all.
 
Waco
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Re: DELL PC3-12800 memory upgrade

Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:11 pm

olegtf wrote:
Just in case anyone cares. Out of 117 dells in the building 68 took new sticks without any problems at all. 40 required some swapping and the rest had to live with pulls from other boxes. Thank you all.

Excellent! Only 9 problem children is a pretty good success ratio. :)
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