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Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:42 am
by ptsant
Hello,

I want to upgrade to ECC for my Ryzen build (currently using 2x16GB cheap 3000C15 RAM). I am a bit confused with the following alternatives:
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/d ... 43BB1-CPB/
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/d ... 43BB1-CRC/
https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/d ... 43BB1-CTD/

The first one is probably the worst one. The second is at $220 locally, the third is at $171 (16GB modules, need two obviously).

I believe the second is rated 2400C17 and the third is 2666CL19 (according to the SPD PDF file). But all three are based on Samsung B-die. So theoretically all should clock quite well. I don't understand why the third is considerably cheaper, while it looks better on paper. Is there something I am missing here?

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:21 pm
by derFunkenstein
I see nothing beyond the SPD that would explain why they're all priced differently. I would just get the cheapest one and not look back. And all else equal I'd probably get the 3rd one just because of the extra rated bandwidth. It probably has no practical impact on clocking higher than stock, but I don't overclock my RAM beyond whatever the motherboard detects.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:24 pm
by NovusBogus
Any of the three should be fine. Samsung has by far the most confusing and esoteric product listings of any RAM manufacturer, so it's good to not read too much into what you see on their website.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:54 pm
by ptsant
Thanks for the help. I'll probably get the third option (2666CL19) and save approx $100.

Will update in a couple of weeks when I get the modules.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:15 pm
by mikewinddale
Wow, that's really weird. On the HTML page, they all say 2133 MHz. It's only on the PDF datasheets that they say 2133, 2400, and 2666 MHz respectively.

So if you hadn't mentioned the datasheets, I wouldn't have even bothered to look. If I were shopping for Ryzen with ECC, I would have just looked at the HTML page, decided it wasn't remotely what I wanted, and just moved on.

I'd be interested to hear about your experience. I just built a Ryzen with ECC, but I went with Kingston RAM. Everyone was telling me that Samsung was the best, but I thought all the Samsung ECC was 2133 MHz because I was just looking at the HTML pages and not the datasheets. People told me it would overclock fine, but I preferred to get something that was factory spec'ed as high as possible. All other things equal, I'd prefer factory over overclock for the same reason I want ECC in the first place.

So in the end, I went with Kingston KSM26ED8/16ME (16GB 2666MHz DDR4 ECC CL19 DIMM 2Rx8 Micron E).
Product page: https://shop.kingston.com/partsinfo.aspx?ktcpartno=KSM26ED8/16ME
Datasheet: https://www.kingston.com/datasheets/KSM26ED8_16ME.pdf
And that's worked fine for me. But I'd be interested to hear your experience with the 2666 MHz Samsung ECC.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:19 pm
by Mr Bill
What motherboard? You might find this Looking-for-ECC-memory-for-AMD-X470-motherboard interesting.
‎07-11-2018 10:28 AM We have heard back from our engineers on this matter. They were able to get in contact with AMD and get a definite answer to your question. What they found out is that your motherboard will turn on and work with ECC memory installed, but it will not utilize the ECC function. AMD said that Raven Ridge only PRO parts (Commercial APU’s) support ECC. The reason that we do not show ECC memory as compatible with your board is because you will have no added benefit of using ECC memory over standard non-ECC.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:53 pm
by just brew it!
Mr Bill wrote:
What motherboard? You might find this Looking-for-ECC-memory-for-AMD-X470-motherboard interesting.

07-11-2018 10:28 AM We have heard back from our engineers on this matter. They were able to get in contact with AMD and get a definite answer to your question. What they found out is that your motherboard will turn on and work with ECC memory installed, but it will not utilize the ECC function. AMD said that Raven Ridge only PRO parts (Commercial APU’s) support ECC. The reason that we do not show ECC memory as compatible with your board is because you will have no added benefit of using ECC memory over standard non-ECC.

The answer seems to be specifically referring to Raven Ridge though.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:46 am
by ptsant
Mr Bill wrote:
What motherboard? You might find this Looking-for-ECC-memory-for-AMD-X470-motherboard interesting.
‎07-11-2018 10:28 AM We have heard back from our engineers on this matter. They were able to get in contact with AMD and get a definite answer to your question. What they found out is that your motherboard will turn on and work with ECC memory installed, but it will not utilize the ECC function. AMD said that Raven Ridge only PRO parts (Commercial APU’s) support ECC. The reason that we do not show ECC memory as compatible with your board is because you will have no added benefit of using ECC memory over standard non-ECC.


I have an Asus Crosshair VI (X370) and the ECC options are visible in the BIOS, so my understanding is that it would work with my 1700X. I believe I've seen people successfully test ECC with other Asus AM4 motherboards (B350 Prime, if not mistaken). Will post my own results from linux tests if/when I get my hands on the modules.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:55 am
by just brew it!
I recently picked up an Asus Prime X470-Pro, and will comment regarding the ECC support as soon as I get around to starting the build.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 12:20 pm
by reeeebooo^
Using the 223988 M391A2K43BB1-CRC with succes on a Ryzen 2700, can´t remember what settings though, but stock voltage CL17@3000MHz iirc.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:31 am
by ptsant
Hello everyone,

I finally got my M391A2K43BB1-CTD DIMMS (2x16GB dual rank, rated 2666/CL19 1.2V) on an ASUS Crosshair VI with a Ryzen 1700X. They replaced a pair of Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000C15 2x16GB (dual rank).

I can confirm that ECC works in both Linux and Windows:
[    6.897998] EDAC amd64: Node 0: DRAM ECC enabled.
[    6.897999] EDAC amd64: F17h detected (node 0).


In windows, the ram is reported as having "multibit ECC".

This is definitely much better quality ram than the previous. I managed to boot at 3200C15 with all settings at auto except voltage, pushed to the "usual" 1.35V instead of stock 1.2V. It had taken me hours of tuning to get the previous RAM at 2933C16 and I had to dive into all sorts of exotic timings in the BIOS sub-sub-menus. I guess it would probably be able to get to 3333MHz or 3400MHz, but at 3200 I feel I already got my money's worth ($360).

Do note that some pages on the internet claim that the ASUS Crosshair does not have ECC support. It appears to me that this is false.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:54 am
by just brew it!
ptsant wrote:
Do note that some pages on the internet claim that the ASUS Crosshair does not have ECC support. It appears to me that this is false.

There was a lot of confusion about ECC support when Ryzen first came out, due to AMD not "officially" supporting it.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:28 pm
by APWNH
Nice. I was shocked when I searched my emails this week, to find that in Jun 2018 I paid a whopping $425 (on ebay no less, as this was already difficult to find and I was getting tired of the research phase) for 4x8GB F24EA8GS Super Talent DDR4-2400 ECC UDIMMs. For my 1950X. Now these 16GB ECC UDIMMS you've found there direct from samsung (and confirmed, thanks, to be B-dies) are under $100 a piece on memory.net. I haven't bought from there before, but I am glad I didn't go for 8 DIMMS last year. Not that I would have done that, but I sure wanted to...

Really glad the ram prices have come back down to earth now. Now it will cost me less than $400 to pump this thing up to 96GB ECC DDR4, which is honestly pretty boneriffic.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:35 am
by APWNH
I forgot the actual point i was going to write in my post. Been a while since I've posted on forums... getting rusty...

Since I don't have a workload that needs 96GB of RAM, and possibly switching on deduplication on my ZFS pool (which doesn't exist on that machine yet) is not a legitimate purpose for that much ECC RAM...

I could only assume that I need to purchase that RAM soon if I want to actually get it, because Samsung has stopped production of those B-die chips. So, if I come back in 2 years hoping to upgrade the ram on that old threadripper I'd have to settle for something *unpure* and end up with a *heterogeneous* situation for the memory. Meanwhile I can get 96GB now by preemptively upgrading...

Or, maybe in the future the ram will be twice cheaper yet, and I'd only need to spend like a hundred bucks to kick it up to 96GB. Who knows.

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:53 am
by Igor_Kavinski
just brew it! wrote:
I recently picked up an Asus Prime X470-Pro, and will comment regarding the ECC support as soon as I get around to starting the build.


I hope you document the build for the benefit of the TR community :)

Re: Help me choose correct ECC B-die for Ryzen

Posted: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:57 am
by Igor_Kavinski
APWNH wrote:
Or, maybe in the future the ram will be twice cheaper yet, and I'd only need to spend like a hundred bucks to kick it up to 96GB. Who knows.


I would simply buy it while it's cheap and avoid the regret if the RAM were to go out of stock or get more expensive. Did that with my 32GB DDR3 and couldn't be happier.