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jmc2
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TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 9:25 am

Has anyone else noticed that dvd producers are not caring about putting out a quality product.

Three examples...
Big Bang Theory - 10 years of coming out on 3 dvds. Year 11... two dvds and a noticeable drop in quality. But they did save money on a dvd.
Lucifer Season 3 also dropped down a dvd and dropped quality (3.3Mbps). They are also dropping the 6ch bitrate to 384.

"The Bay" 6 episodes. 3 per dvd. 5 Gig per dvd so they are on a dual layer.
So WHY not use the full 7 Gigs for the best quality they can put on the dvd! I can't imagine compressing the shows less would cost money.

This downward spiral continues I'm going to be forced to start buying B-rays.
Have always been thankful that I've found dvds to be "good enough" but not with this happening.

Thoughts Welcome.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 9:32 am

jmc2 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that dvd producers are not caring about putting out a quality product.

Three examples...
Big Bang Theory - 10 years of coming out on 3 dvds. Year 11... two dvds and a noticeable drop in quality. But they did save money on a dvd.
Lucifer Season 3 also dropped down a dvd and dropped quality (3.3Mbps). They are also dropping the 6ch bitrate to 384.

"The Bay" 6 episodes. 3 per dvd. 5 Gig per dvd so they are on a dual layer.
So WHY not use the full 7 Gigs for the best quality they can put on the dvd! I can't imagine compressing the shows less would cost money.

This downward spiral continues I'm going to be forced to start buying B-rays.
Have always been thankful that I've found dvds to be "good enough" but not with this happening.

Thoughts Welcome.

You hit the nail on the head with the bit I underlined above. It's intentional. They want everyone to start buying Blu-Ray instead (because they can charge more), and one way to encourage that is by widening the perceived gap in visual quality. Planned obsolescence of an entire format.
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 9:47 am

just brew it! wrote:
jmc2 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that dvd producers are not caring about putting out a quality product.

Three examples...
Big Bang Theory - 10 years of coming out on 3 dvds. Year 11... two dvds and a noticeable drop in quality. But they did save money on a dvd.
Lucifer Season 3 also dropped down a dvd and dropped quality (3.3Mbps). They are also dropping the 6ch bitrate to 384.

"The Bay" 6 episodes. 3 per dvd. 5 Gig per dvd so they are on a dual layer.
So WHY not use the full 7 Gigs for the best quality they can put on the dvd! I can't imagine compressing the shows less would cost money.

This downward spiral continues I'm going to be forced to start buying B-rays.
Have always been thankful that I've found dvds to be "good enough" but not with this happening.

Thoughts Welcome.

You hit the nail on the head with the bit I underlined above. It's intentional. They want everyone to start buying Blu-Ray instead (because they can charge more), and one way to encourage that is by widening the perceived gap in visual quality. Planned obsolescence of an entire format.

Not to mention lower overall sales due to streaming.
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jmc2
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 9:55 am

just brew it! wrote:
jmc2 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that dvd producers are not caring about putting out a quality product.
This downward spiral continues I'm going to be forced to start buying B-rays.
Have always been thankful that I've found dvds to be "good enough" but not with this happening.


You hit the nail on the head with the bit I underlined above. It's intentional. They want everyone to start buying Blu-Ray instead (because they can charge more), and one way to encourage that is by widening the perceived gap in visual quality. Planned obsolescence of an entire format.


Ouch, had not thought of that.
Depressing... because it's going to work if they keep it up. A 3.3 Mbps dvd is just not acceptable at all.
And it can be difficult to find out that they are screwing me that way before I get the dvds in my hands. :(

Thanks.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 10:37 am

They still make DVD's? I haven't bought those in at least 5 years.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 11:43 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
They still make DVD's? I haven't bought those in at least 5 years.


I'm less inclined to think studios are deliberately making crappy releases than just brew it. The market for TV show home video releases is shrinking more aggressively than the market for movies, and the studios just don't care enough to lavish attention on them. "Three episodes per disc, set bitrates for audio and video, cram on whatever extra features are laying around (because you're probably not gonna shoot more just for this), and give it the OK for release" sounds much more in line with pragmatic, results-driven planning than it does with "mwahaha, we'll MAKE them crave the superior format" thinking.
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 1:05 pm

....and this is why people pirate everything, in 1080p.

Screw those guys. They don't deserve your money for low-bitrate box sets.
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 1:17 pm

just brew it! wrote:
jmc2 wrote:
Has anyone else noticed that dvd producers are not caring about putting out a quality product.

Three examples...
Big Bang Theory - 10 years of coming out on 3 dvds. Year 11... two dvds and a noticeable drop in quality. But they did save money on a dvd.
Lucifer Season 3 also dropped down a dvd and dropped quality (3.3Mbps). They are also dropping the 6ch bitrate to 384.

"The Bay" 6 episodes. 3 per dvd. 5 Gig per dvd so they are on a dual layer.
So WHY not use the full 7 Gigs for the best quality they can put on the dvd! I can't imagine compressing the shows less would cost money.

This downward spiral continues I'm going to be forced to start buying B-rays.
Have always been thankful that I've found dvds to be "good enough" but not with this happening.

Thoughts Welcome.

You hit the nail on the head with the bit I underlined above. It's intentional. They want everyone to start buying Blu-Ray instead (because they can charge more), and one way to encourage that is by widening the perceived gap in visual quality. Planned obsolescence of an entire format.


*Start* buying Blu-ray? What year is this? I still find myself occasionally purchasing a DVD release of a TV show (when Blu-ray isn't available), but I've been purchasing almost exclusively Blu-ray for over a decade.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 1:18 pm

They probably figure that if you are willing to watch the 720x480 DVD resolution rather than choosing the 1920x1080 option then quality isn't a priority to you either. And if they can save some money on production costs and maximize profit then all the better.
 
just brew it!
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 1:59 pm

techguy wrote:
*Start* buying Blu-ray? What year is this? I still find myself occasionally purchasing a DVD release of a TV show (when Blu-ray isn't available), but I've been purchasing almost exclusively Blu-ray for over a decade.

Yeah, bad word choice. I should've worded that as "get the last few DVD holdouts to start buying Blu-Ray". :wink:
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 2:05 pm

jmc2 wrote:
Big Bang Theory - 10 years of coming out on 3 dvds. Year 11... two dvds and a noticeable drop in quality. But they did save money on a dvd.
Lucifer Season 3 also dropped down a dvd and dropped quality (3.3Mbps). They are also dropping the 6ch bitrate to 384.


My earlier talk still stands. But after thinking about it, the real answer is here. They're scrimping on bitrate to cram more episodes onto fewer discs, because manufacturing discs is the most expensive part of the dwindling business model. Several animated series on Adult Swim have had an entire season crammed onto a disc - some with fine results, others much less so. My guess is that they've taken the bitrate-light transfers intended for streaming and thumped them onto disc without much QA.
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 2:18 pm

Don't attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 2:20 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Don't attribute to malice that which can be easily explained by incompetence.


Or penny-pinching, for that matter.
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 5:10 pm

Or 'this was a 1080i/720p show why are we putting it on a 480p dvd'
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 5:57 pm

I'm confused. Buying DVDs when the source aired in HD? It's pretty clear cost is the driver, not the visual fidelity.
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 6:30 pm

Cost is definitely a concern for them, but also for me. I buy TV on DVD but only after it's been out for a while. I can usually pick up good-condition used DVDs at the local Mega Replay for cheap. The last 4 seasons of How I Met Your Mother were only $20.
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Tue May 21, 2019 6:43 pm

...and that's why piracy still reigns.
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jmc2
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Wed May 22, 2019 4:24 pm

Concupiscence wrote:
jmc2 wrote:


My earlier talk still stands. But after thinking about it, the real answer is here. They're scrimping on bitrate to cram more episodes onto fewer discs, because manufacturing discs is the most expensive part of the dwindling business model. Several animated series on Adult Swim have had an entire season crammed onto a disc - some with fine results, others much less so. My guess is that they've taken the bitrate-light transfers intended for streaming and thumped them onto disc without much QA.


Good Grief... Now shoddy B-rays. Is there no hope for quality! (My level of quality which is 5-8Mbps dvds).

I do buy B-rays when there is something I can not get any other way like the "Ginger Snaps" subtitles-(not on the dvds<But 8Mbps!).

But B-rays are huge and time consuming. Dvds are/were "good enough".
I have to face the fact that that's the way the market is going. Bye-bye media.

Even now there are shows that I can not find ANY hard media to buy at all...
So far iZombie4. S5 is final and in progress. Maybe when it's finished the dvds will show up.
The Fosters
Red Rock
Santa Clarita Diet.

LOVE these shows and would LOVE to buy these shows but... ya gota do what ya gota do.

Streaming just can not be trusted at all.
I bought 1 episode of "Manifest" to see if I liked it. After I watched it I went back to buy the rest of the episodes...
basically..."Sorry, licensing agreement have changed, unavailable" (so screw me).

I'm resetting my Amazon "to buy" check list of future releases to B-ray versions.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Wed May 22, 2019 7:06 pm

[quote="jmc2"]Has anyone else noticed that dvd producers are not caring about putting out a quality product.

Three examples...
Big Bang Theory - 10 years of coming out on 3 dvds. Year 11... two dvds and a noticeable drop in quality. But they did save money on a dvd.
Lucifer Season 3 also dropped down a dvd and dropped quality (3.3Mbps). They are also dropping the 6ch bitrate to 384.

"The Bay" 6 episodes. 3 per dvd. 5 Gig per dvd so they are on a dual layer.
So WHY not use the full 7 Gigs for the best quality they can put on the dvd! I can't imagine compressing the shows less would cost money.

This downward spiral continues I'm going to be forced to start buying B-rays.
Have always been thankful that I've found dvds to be "good enough" but not with this happening.

I did not know this, but glad I do now. I cut down like 99% on my disc buying several years ago for two reasons; the first was that I had basically backfilled everything I wanted from the past, and the other being that I couldn't really afford to spend money on something I don't REALLY need. It also helps that as time goes on, there are less and less American TV shows(and movies too, actually) that I find desirable to watch. Several years ago I discovered Korean & Japanese TV shows & movies(vast majority Korean but some great Japanese stuff too). The BEST thing about their TV shows is that you don't have to worry about a series being cancelled on some season-ending-cliffhanger! Because the shows are only ONE season! They can be as short as a half-dozen episodes, or massive 60 episode shows; most are about 20.Okay, enough of this tangent...
My suggestion for you is to just wait 9-12 months after the Blu-Rays are released to buy them. Then places like Target will be selling them for like 10 bucks. Hell, the majority of my DVDs and Blu-Rays I bought way after they came out when they were on sale, or in the 5 buck bargain bin. I know that streaming is the future, but I have always preferred discs because of the higher quality and because you don't have to worry about a license agreement running out. I know that everyone has been predicting the death of discs for years now, and I can imagine that may happen with DVDs. But I think that there will be enough of a market to at least keep making BRs(at least I hope so).
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Wed May 22, 2019 10:39 pm

SirReptitious wrote:
Three examples...


You, sir, have a top 5 username of all time!
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jmc2
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Thu May 23, 2019 8:28 am

SirReptitious wrote:
My suggestion for you is to just wait 9-12 months after the Blu-Rays are released to buy them. Then places like Target will be selling them for like 10 bucks.
I have always preferred discs because of the higher quality and because you don't have to worry about a license agreement running out. I know that everyone has been predicting the death of discs for years now, and I can imagine that may happen with DVDs. But I think that there will be enough of a market to at least keep making BRs(at least I hope so).


The "waiting" on a price drop is a good idea...if we are lucky.
I've learned the hard way to get it while I can.
It might go "out of print" and the price skyrocket. Or there might not be a full complete release of the series. (ever)

I sweated that over my beloved "Perry Mason" shows. Ten years of.
It took years (not 10) but years of buying them every year and then two a year until I finally had them all.
Now of course I can buy the entire boxed set for a small fraction of what I spent year by year.
So if it is an important show get it while you can. Otherwise wait and try to save a lot.

"I have always preferred discs because of the higher quality and because you don't have to worry about a license agreement running out"
EXACTLY RIGHT!

I also hope there will continue to be a market for solid media. I will pay more for a decent product but right now they seem to be aiming to sell crap quality.
But I expect that once this all "shakes out" there will be a niche market for quality at an increased price.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Thu May 23, 2019 7:26 pm

jmc2 wrote:
SirReptitious wrote:
.


The "waiting" on a price drop is a good idea...if we are lucky.
I've learned the hard way to get it while I can.
It might go "out of print" and the price skyrocket. Or there might not be a full complete release of the series. (ever)

I sweated that over my beloved "Perry Mason" shows. Ten years of.
It took years (not 10) but years of buying them every year and then two a year until I finally had them all.
Now of course I can buy the entire boxed set for a small fraction of what I spent year by year.
So if it is an important show get it while you can. Otherwise wait and try to save a lot.

"I have always preferred discs because of the higher quality and because you don't have to worry about a license agreement running out"
EXACTLY RIGHT!

I also hope there will continue to be a market for solid media. I will pay more for a decent product but right now they seem to be aiming to sell crap quality.
But I expect that once this all "shakes out" there will be a niche market for quality at an increased price.


Yes, the possibility of a title you want going OOP is always there. But between Amazon and Ebay, I can give you a 99.9% guarantee you would be able to find whatever you were looking for. I went to Amazon and looked up some tv series that I thought would have a good chance of being OOP and sold out. Those series were My So-Called Life, Invasion, Surface, SOAP, Space Above And Beyond, and Bewitched. ALL are available. Back when I first started buying DVDs I was like you and always worried that if I didn't buy it when it came out I might be left empty-handed. Because that is exactly what would happen with Laserdiscs! But then I learned the hard way that buying season-by-season on DVD is for suckers since after they are trickled out, they come out with a box set for a fraction of the price of the separate seasons. Yeah, there is a small chance not all seasons will be released or a box set. But in that case you just hit up Ebay.
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Thu May 23, 2019 7:36 pm

MOSFET wrote:
SirReptitious wrote:
Three examples...


You, sir, have a top 5 username of all time!


Why, thank you very much! It took me quite a while to come up with that name. I was watching Youtube since the early days(when people with 10K subs were "superstars"), and was on the site for MONTHS as an unregistered user because I couldn't think up a name I liked. I have another nick I use in IRC, but wanted to use a different one.
What's funny(to me) is that I apparently over-thought my nick, because you are only the second person to ever comment on it! Between Youtube having billions of non-native English speakers, and most native English speakers having apparently very limited vocabularies, people don't get it because they don't even know the word "surreptitious". So in the end it turns out I tried to be TOO clever and the joke is on me. :-/
 
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Re: TV show dvd bitrates falling badly...

Thu May 23, 2019 7:42 pm

A shoddy Bluray is still going to have a much higher bitrate than anything on Netflix. Publishers figured if people are willing to accept Netflix quality then they'd be fine with having a few more episodes on a disc. In fact, most consumers are probably happier because less disk swapping.

That said, there is an enormous difference between DVD 480P and Bluray. If your eyes are good enough to notice the reduced bitrate at 480P I'm sure you'd appreciate having full hd 1080P instead.

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