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liquidsquid
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Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:49 am

Hi all,
I am finally going to replace an old standard DEF (20 years old) 3-LCD projector that has a dead bulb on it with a new 1080 projector, receiver, etc. We have been out of commission for 10 years now, and I have outlawed my son from seeing the old Star Wars until he can see them on the big screen in big sound. We are all getting the itch to see them in my family so we can go see the new movies with the back story in place. I have the Laser Disk collection where Han Solo shoots first, so that is important IMHO. Granted the source is standard def, everything else I have of any value is blue-ray.

I already have a 120" screen, and the ability to throw up to 20 feet away from the ceiling. The further back I can go the better so the fan is out of ear-shot.

I am looking to stay under $2K for the projector, no 3D necessary (it makes my son sick), but would like the best bang for the buck image.
I am looking at Epson 3-LCD projectors right now, but open to any suggestions or personal recommendations. I have been out of the loop for a long time in Home Theater apart from making a HTPC a few years back. 4K is way the heck out of our price range right now, but has done well to push down prices of 1080.

The receiver isn't quite as critical, I cannot afford to be picky. I only need at least 3HDMI inputs and at least one standard video input or optical for the Laser Disk. Good dynamic range and a great solid design. Trying to stay under $800 for this part.

So feed me info if you can. It is the first time in many years I will be spending money on something that doesn't fix the house, fix a car, or mow the lawn.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:06 pm

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V379 if you want cheap and easy 5.1, RX-V479 if you need the additional I/O or Apple AirPlay support, RX-V579 if you want 7-channel outputs. Note that these receivers allow the HDMI and component audio sources to be selectively combined to a single preset (using OSD menus to change configuration) if you need to mix and match your input sources.
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the
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:06 pm

With regards to Epson projectors, I use several models here at work in various conference rooms. Overall there are exceptionally good. One thing to be aware of is that Epson projectors will generally accept a 1080P input signal but most at work have a native resolution is actually 1280 x 800. Thus a 1080P signal will be down scaled to 720P with slight letterboxing to make up for the other 80 vertical pixels. This generally works for video content but it'll make text blurry. This processing also has a bit of lag so if you plan on gaming, make sure you feed it a 720P source. Epson does make true 1080P projectors where this doesn't apply.

I've been eager to try some Casio hybrid laser/LED projectors in-house. These do not have a traditional lamp so if you have to replace yours yearly or every other year from usage , the higher cost of these projectors will be offset by that expense over its life time. Most lamps form my experience last a little over 2000 hours on average and the Casio laser/LED units are rated for either 20,000 or 30,000 hours of usage. I have seen a demo of these units and they have another added benefit: they're quiet for a projector. There is still a fan going but they're not loud at all.

I will also say to avoid NEC projectors. I also have several models at work and they a very annoying quirk that we've blacklisted them. The NEC projectors have a lamp cover sensor that will prevent the projector from powering on if that cover is removed. A wonderfully good intention that leads your way into service hell. The cover itself has a flimsy plastic tab that makes contact with the sensor that loves to break off. I've had to order numerous replacement covers because of this. Furthermore, the sensor itself may not trigger even with a good cover. Thus you'll have a ceiling mounted projector that works one day and then the next day you'll need to climb a ladder to just open and close the lamp cover to fix it. NEC has reportedly fixed this design flaw but I'm not eager to get anymore NEC due this bad experience.
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liquidsquid
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:38 pm

I did look at those Casio projectors, but it goes from $1700 to $8000 to touch one similar. That is a lot of $150 lamps. I love the idea though, it is probably where most projectors of the future will be going. It took me 7 years to blow a 2000 hour lamp last time since this will be used for movies and occasional gaming. By the time the lamp blew, the projector technology was outdated and not worth fixing.

Thanks so far. I have a month to choose stuff, a self-imposed gateway to make sure and choose what makes sense rather than making snap choices and not liking what I picked.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:03 pm

BenQ seems to be the best bang for the buck right now. I love the 2 that I've had. I waited patiently for a Craigslist deal and got a $200 720P one 2 years ago and then when I accidentally broke that, I found a 1080p for $500. Great picture. I'd highly recommend them.
 
liquidsquid
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:15 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
BenQ seems to be the best bang for the buck right now. I love the 2 that I've had. I waited patiently for a Craigslist deal and got a $200 720P one 2 years ago and then when I accidentally broke that, I found a 1080p for $500. Great picture. I'd highly recommend them.


$500? That is cheap. Is it a DLP? If so how fast is the wheel of rainbow in it? Last I checked I can still see the flicker on a large screen when looking from one corner of a large screen to the other.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:22 pm

liquidsquid wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
BenQ seems to be the best bang for the buck right now. I love the 2 that I've had. I waited patiently for a Craigslist deal and got a $200 720P one 2 years ago and then when I accidentally broke that, I found a 1080p for $500. Great picture. I'd highly recommend them.

$500? That is cheap. Is it a DLP? If so how fast is the wheel of rainbow in it? Last I checked I can still see the flicker on a large screen when looking from one corner of a large screen to the other.

Yeah it's a DLP. Our screen is only about 80", but the couch is only about 7' from it, so works well. I don't have a problem with seeing flicker, but maybe because I've never looked for it. The W1070 which I see frequently recommended goes for $700.
 
the
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 4:55 pm

Panasonic has an LED/Laser hybrid that does 1080P native for around $3000 USD (PT-RZ370U), though I don't have any first hand experience with any Panasonic projector. Per the specs, this is also a relatively bright projector.

The Optoma HD91 is interesting as it is a pure LED system for roughly the same price as the Panasonic. The downside is that this Optoma's brightness is rather low, which seems to be a trait of most LED only projectors. However, I can personally vouch for the quality of Optoma projectors as I've rented a few while traveling, though different models. They're one of the few companies that are putting DisplayPort on projectors, which is rather nice. Also since I've only used them in a rental context, I cannot say much about lamp life expectancy or lamp cost for their other models.

I have avoided trying out BenQ models due to their relatively low rated brightness but they may work well in your environment.. Regardless of the manufacturer, I'd make a brightness comparison to your current projector.
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:56 pm

We've had the same Epson 1080p projector since '09 (HC8500UB) and we're still pretty happy with it.

It's a short throw, and we're using it to display a 152" image.

No issues with it down-scaling content to 720p.

When I purchased and installed it, I ran 2x HDMI, component, vga, and composite cables to it, connected it to an old receiver that predated HDMI, and switched video sources at the PJ and the receiver, which was a burden for anyone unfamiliar with the system.

We recently bought a Yamaha RX-V777BT when they started discounting them ahead of the new models and it's been great. It's really made the system a lot more user friendly with four one-button presets to select a particular source, starting volume level, and surround parameters. I didn't think I would, but I use the Bluetooth while I'm doing housework. There's even an Android app for controlling the receiver, but I haven't used it since I set the receiver up.


We sit with the Epson directly over our heads and rarely notice the noise of the fan. We don't notice any fan noise while watching content, but if I listen closely during quiet moments or before there's any audio portion of the videos, I can hear it (unless the furnace/AC is running - it's quieter than that). I do have the PJ sitting on a shelf that probably reflects some of its fan noise upward.


I'm confident that since we purchased our PJ, they've only gotten better.

I suggest you do some research at AVSForums. I think the biggest problem you'll have is realizing that you should have done this much sooner when you get the new pieces.
 
Pagey
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:09 pm

Dunno if it helps you or not, but I saw this today when perusing High Def Digest: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... -799/25631
 
localhostrulez
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:17 pm

My work has a ton of Hitachi CP-DW10N (short-throw) projectors, along with some of the longer throw similar models. 1280x800, more for conference rooms and classrooms than home theaters. We put those in ~5 years ago, and while they worked fine for the bulk of that time, they've been dropping like flies lately. For one, the LCD in them starts getting miscolored - supposedly it's an issue with the AC blowing on them. Seen this at multiple campuses with different HVAC vent setups. Second, they discontinued these, and it's getting harder to find bulbs for them. And it's been tricky to find a replacement for the short-throws in a reasonable price range (though I think we finally found one - Epson or Optima as I recall)

As for receivers... I have an Onkyo TX-SR576, and it's decent enough. A bit big and hot running as usual, but it works and sound quality is good. Only issue is I only got it because it failed (a pair of transistors for one of the output channels), so I question the reliability. Common failure point with those.
 
liquidsquid
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:20 pm

Thanks,
Onkyo used to be a great brand, but since darned near everything is made in China these days, most of the brands carried at big box stores are probably all made in the same factory. It is discouraging at best as you feel like you are at the mercy of choosing the one least likely to die vs. one with great performance specifications.

One thing that is painfully obvious is when you enter Best Buy and start looking at the guts of the receivers, the "Power Ratings" don't match up with the size of the power transformer inside. In many cases there is absolutely NO WAY some of those power supplies and transformers would reach 1200W overall power all at the same time. It is likely the expectation that the dynamic sources don't require that, but in my field a rating is a rating, and 1200W better mean continuous. The power cords they provide would go up in a poof of smoke if you pulled that power. From what I can tell, these are not switching supplies, they are linear and CHEAP. Perhaps there is a switcher hiding in there allowing smaller magnetics, but I doubt it.

I have two 1200W amplifiers (when bridged into 2 ohms) and the torroid transformers in those babies are about 40 pounds each. The heavy power cord is able to deliver the current necessary, and there is a warning on the back not to plug two of these into the same circuit. However, it would cost me MORE to get a receiver without amplifiers as that gets me into golden ear range. Good old American made quality.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:52 am

Pagey wrote:
Dunno if it helps you or not, but I saw this today when perusing High Def Digest: http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/ ... -799/25631


It does help, the Home Cinema 1440 is perfect! No 3D and high color brightness! I think this is the one.
 
Pagey
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Re: Time for a new projector

Wed Sep 02, 2015 9:24 am

Awesome! I like to hit up High Def Digest once a week or so to see what they have under their hardware news. :D
 
liquidsquid
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Re: Time for a new projector

Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:53 am

I picked up a Yamaha RX-A1050BL receiver to go along with the Epson 1040. Wow, a lot of options! Took me a while to figure out how to turn on the radio.

As for the projector? Preliminary results say this thing is BRIGHT! Not the darkest blacks as the contrast ratio is not really high on this, but I have found that a high contrast ratio on a white projection screen is pointless. Reflections in anything but a room painted black at midnight ruins the ratings as light bounces off the screen and splashes around the room and back onto the screen.

It also made me realize that my old collection of Laser Disks are not going to be used much. They look like VHS tapes now by comparison with hi-def sources. More to report soon, but happy so far!
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Thu Sep 17, 2015 12:58 pm

You've already picked one up so I'm just putting this here purely for informational purposes... :)

the wrote:
Panasonic has an LED/Laser hybrid that does 1080P native for around $3000 USD (PT-RZ370U), though I don't have any first hand experience with any Panasonic projector. Per the specs, this is also a relatively bright projector.


I do have first hand experience with that model. They're REALLY nice. We're starting to use them in classrooms. There's only about 30 seconds from "power on" to "ready to use." That's not bad as compared to regular bulb-based projectors. And you can't even compare the picture quality!

The PT-RZ370U has a 10,000:1 contrast ratio and isn't 3D Ready. The PT-RZ470U runs in the same ballpark pricewise, but has a 20,000:1 contrast ratio and is 3D Ready.
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Re: Time for a new projector

Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:04 pm

Glad to hear the Epson is working out well so far! It's amazing how far home cinema has come in the last decade. With Blu-ray media and AVC (h.264) encoding, we've basically surpassed the quality of having a 35 mm release print in our homes. I'm excited to see what UHD Blu-ray with Wide Color Gamut and HDR will bring to the table! I've got an old DVD/VHS combo unit sitting around unused. I should hook it up to one of my HDTV's composite video connectors and watch a VHS tape, just to see the difference. I don't recall the last time I watched anything on VHS. Looking back (I'm almost 39), it seemed like it took forever to get away from analog NTSC and transition to digital and high-definition. But once we finally hit HD, we seem to be rolling downhill at a much faster pace. All the 4K/WCG/HDR stuff is not even truly settled, and some manufacturers are talking 8K already. Hell, my mom and dad STILL have a 36" CRT in their living room (dad doesn't use it, mom refuses to let go of it "because it still works").
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:43 pm

Well, I received the Epson 1440 Home Cinema, and have actually used the high-pitched warbling version of "awe-some!"

BTW Contrast ratios don't mean squat when projected onto a white screen in a room without dark decor. A normal light-painted room makes the contrast ratio much worse than ratings. The reflected light messes everything up except star fields, so high contrast scenes don't really come out high contrast in practical use.

This projector is so ridiculously bright as to be easily view-able during the day with curtains open. Scenes with people shining flashlights is like someone blasting you in the eyes with one when watching at night. The Life of PI looks incredible!

Color saturation is beautiful on animated movies, the fan is quiet on ECO mode (and still bright as hell), and the thing is small and light for what it is. 1/4 the weight of the old projector.

Only complaint is the auto-iris mechanism is noisy so I turned it off.

Back to 110" of beauty.

The biggest problem? My LaserDisk collection looks terrible. Like old VHS tapes. So much for my Star Wars collectors edition. I am not sure if the recordings degraded over time since they are recorded analog on these things. I don't recall them looking that bad, but at the time, the projector matched that resolution. Up-scaling doesn't add much to it.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:06 pm

I can honestly say that I've never seen anything presented via LaserDisc. We went from VHS to DVD, so I skipped that generation of hardware. Just for giggles, I dug through the old VHS holder the other day and found "The Terminal" on VHS. I plugged my old Magnavox VHS/DVD combo unit into the composite/AV hookup on my upstairs 32" Samsung 5203 series TV and inserted "The Terminal". The first thing I noticed is that the TV automatically forced the 4:3 VHS into a 16:9 ratio, so Tom Hanks looked like he'd put on as much weight as he did for Cast Away. Second, the color fidelity was junk. I'd forgotten how washed out the colors looked with the chroma and luma data all on the same input. Detail was very soft, too. I think, overall, the VHS presentation held up a little better than I imagined it would, but it immediately made me grateful for just how far we've come in the last decade or so. Also, I now wish to see Life of Pi on a 110" screen!
 
the
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:32 pm

liquidsquid wrote:
The biggest problem? My LaserDisk collection looks terrible. Like old VHS tapes. So much for my Star Wars collectors edition. I am not sure if the recordings degraded over time since they are recorded analog on these things. I don't recall them looking that bad, but at the time, the projector matched that resolution. Up-scaling doesn't add much to it.


While LaserDiscs are analog, they technically shouldn't degrade over time. The catch is that many laser discs were manufactured with a horrible glue that'd cause the discs to rot over time. My suggestion is to convert anything you have on LaserDisc to digital video and go from there. I'd also do the conversion as the LaserDisc players themselves are becoming increasingly difficult to source.
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liquidsquid
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Sep 22, 2015 8:35 pm

the wrote:
liquidsquid wrote:
The biggest problem? My LaserDisk collection looks terrible. Like old VHS tapes. So much for my Star Wars collectors edition. I am not sure if the recordings degraded over time since they are recorded analog on these things. I don't recall them looking that bad, but at the time, the projector matched that resolution. Up-scaling doesn't add much to it.


While LaserDiscs are analog, they technically shouldn't degrade over time. The catch is that many laser discs were manufactured with a horrible glue that'd cause the discs to rot over time. My suggestion is to convert anything you have on LaserDisc to digital video and go from there. I'd also do the conversion as the LaserDisc players themselves are becoming increasingly difficult to source.


I have two functional LaserDisk players, and one is starting to go south since it has rubber belts that are relaxing. Not having a lot of luck sourcing the right size, and it needs some lube for the mechanisms since it is also a 5-disk changer. The other player is in great shape, and a beast as it was one of the top of the line units of its time, and one of the last to be released. This one actually has decent connectivity for outputs, but alas, it doesn't help much. I have not yet tried the S-Video link, but wont hold my breath.

I may just suck it up and let Han Solo shoot second. Most everything else I have on LD needs to be seen on BLue-Ray like the Terminator series and most of the Sci-Fi collection I have. Sci-Fi just needs everything you can throw at it for a good experience.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:21 pm

I've got a CLD-D503 and a DVL-700 here. I also have the trilogy definitive edition, in which Han properly shoots first, as befits a dangerous smuggler cornered by a bounty hunter.
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Sep 22, 2015 9:33 pm

liquidsquid wrote:
I may just suck it up and let Han Solo shoot second.

There is ... another (I hope this is more true than the umpty-million other rumors).

http://uproxx.com/gammasquad/2015/09/st ... hn-landis/
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
liquidsquid
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Re: Time for a new projector

Sat Oct 10, 2015 9:36 pm

After watching several movies on my Epson 1440 Home Cinema and Yamaha receiver, I am well pleased! Two sub-woofers and a comfy couch and a 9yo who has never seen the Jurassic Park movies have made for some pretty good times! Thanks for the help and advice everyone.

BTW I think it would be a waste to get a 4K projector or TV. Most BR transfers of older movies have the capability of showing the film grain of the original. All 4K would get you is better resolution on film grain for old movies. The only benefit would be for new movies or GC and they would have to be shot extraordinarily well to not be distracting. YMMV.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:20 pm

Which models did you end up buying?
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liquidsquid
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Re: Time for a new projector

Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:15 pm

ludi wrote:
Which models did you end up buying?


I picked up the Epson 1440 3-LCD projector:
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/epson-home- ... Id=4431957

And Yamaha RX-A1050
Though when I tried to post a link I discovered they have bundle deals with decent speakers. *sigh* Nobody told me that in the store.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:05 pm

So I finally got around to hooking my DVD/VCR combo unit to a Samsung 32" 5203 series 1080p set, just for giggles as I alluded to above. I found my Star Wars: A New Hope Special Edition VHS and put that into the combo unit. Wow. Just...wow. It was far worse than I ever remember.
 
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Re: Time for a new projector

Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:59 am

Hey guys :)

This is my first post on this site so apoligise if my post should have gone in another section or perhaps have started a new thread.

My question is related to the topic here because our current projector has reached its limits, and I see no other solution than to buy a new projector. The current Panasonic LCD projector has issues with the optical block (after 6 lamp changes), and the blue color is only emitting 60-70% of full power. This means that white is more or less light yellow and blue has turned more green etc. We recently watched the Pixar movie "Inside Out" and couldn't tell the emotions apart. The device had a great gaming mode that showed better contrast and also not too high an input lag.

Both me and the girlfriend use the projector equally (me=gaming, her=movies) and will continue to do so after our new purchase. As you've noticed, I've changed the lamp 6 times already, which depicts that the projector is pretty old. The reason for us not having bought a new projector yet is because my next big entertainment purchase will have to be a 4K display device. The girlfriend insists on buying a projector rather than a TV screen, so a cheaper, more affordable 4K TV is unfortunately out of the question. I do not want to buy a 1080p projector and am willing to wait for the prices to go down for the 4K projectors. I believe current native 4K projectors cost around 8000 dollars?

Still, my concern has to do with the gaming function and the following:

Will a 4K projector create both/either input and display lag when playing current generation fighting games? I am aware that perhaps only small monitors may be good enough for fighting games, but I am still hoping to find or look forward to a next generation projector with minimal input lag. Will an upscaling of a 720p/1080p fighting game onto a 4K projector cause similar lag which was experienced with standard definition games on HD screens in the beginning? I am a little petrified to invest in such expensive equipment if there is a risk it cannot be used for slightly "timing heavy" based games.

Are my concerns exaggerated?

Any advice given would be highly appreciated.
 
the
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Re: Time for a new projector

Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:29 am

Projectors typically add additional latency to handle things like keystone and scaling.

As for affordable 4K native projectors, expect a long long wait. You can find some JVC units for around $4,000 USD reportedly but they're not very bright units. A unit with decent brightness starts around $15,000 USD and then the sky is the limit. Also note that several projectors will accept a 4K signal input but they'll down sample to a native 1920 x 1080 resolution via an internal scaler.

I'd actually recommend you stick with a full HD projector as there are plenty of good models that are affordable for consumers.
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Re: Time for a new projector

Thu Jun 09, 2016 3:15 pm

Dinohampus wrote:

Still, my concern has to do with the gaming function and the following:

Will a 4K projector create both/either input and display lag when playing current generation fighting games? I am aware that perhaps only small monitors may be good enough for fighting games, but I am still hoping to find or look forward to a next generation projector with minimal input lag. Will an upscaling of a 720p/1080p fighting game onto a 4K projector cause similar lag which was experienced with standard definition games on HD screens in the beginning? I am a little petrified to invest in such expensive equipment if there is a risk it cannot be used for slightly "timing heavy" based games.

Are my concerns exaggerated?

Any advice given would be highly appreciated.



In general, try to keep lag to lower than 30ms for a projector. To the best of my knowledge, resolution has little if anything to do with lag (..which is usually input lag).

Upscaling can cause input lag - generally avoid it. IF however it's being done by a graphics card (usually up and then back down), then the added lag should be minimal (..the graphics card is order of magnitudes more powerful than an external re-scaler).

Other than lag, one of the larger problems with projectors are refresh-rate for a given resolution - again, a problem with inputs. This is exacerbated if you want to do it in 3D.

Most 4k Tv's and projectors aren't really 4k which is 4096x2160, instead they are 3840x2160. The thing to note here is the refresh-rate for a given resolution. For instance the 4k JVC DLA-X500R is only 4096x2160 at 24P (refresh-rate) - which is useless for gaming (and 3D viewing).

Basically 4k is currently a bad idea with respect to a SINGLE projector and gaming.

The solution then would be multiple 1080p projectors (4 of them), with relatively low input lag and 120 Hz refresh rates. The problem there is correction adding to the lag if done anywhere beyond a computer/graphics cards, and getting the light-output of all 4 projectors roughly equal and trying to maintain it over time. The new graphics cards from Nvidia have some added processing capability for just this scenario (..though you'll still have to deal with adjustment for un-equal light "drift").


The current value leader in quality 1080P projectors appears to be the Benq HT2050.

IF I were doing the multi-projector route, I still wouldn't "shoot" for 4k. Instead I'd go with 3 projectors tilted to "portrait" mode and mounted side-by-side for almost 3240x1920 (..less the amount for correction).

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