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Kretschmer
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Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:43 am

Prompted by my recent news post (http://techreport.com/news/30236/first- ... ost=982943), I thought I would elaborate on my journey with FreeSync.

Back in June 2015, all the GSync/FreeSync hype prompted the purchase of a 290X card and MG279Q monitor. It seemed like a no-brainer at the time: return to dual monitor goodness and save $300+ over a comparable GTX 970/GSync IPS solution. At $270 after MIR, that 290X was to be the price sweet spot for a very, very long time. Yes, please!

My initial impressions were mixed. The MG279Q was gorgeous and arrived without a single broken pixel marring its surface. An enhanced refresh rate massively refined my experience in games (e.g. Diablo 3, where blurry backgrounds gave way to crystal clear play), and extra real estate is as pleasant in a spreadsheet as a shooter. Moving my Dell to DVI allowed for another display to fit an episode or reference page up in parallel during at a whim.

The 290X was a nice raw performance upgrade from a 660Ti, but my overall initial impressions were mixed. On the software side, a general lack of stability provided a stark contrast to years of stable operation. Messing around with monitor settings while in-game (e.g. FreeSync toggling) would either hang the application or create artifacts, and my computing life was punctuated by the occasional GPU crash/reset.

Oddly, I couldn't seem to get FreeSync working. With the option on, my monitor's refresh rate was a rock solid 144Hz. This persisted for roughly six months, until some desk rearrangement temporarily pulled my secondary Dell display from duty. Suddenly, FreeSync was evident! Adaptive Sync was gorgeous; gaming environments seem much more "solid" and responsive with variable refresh rates. Yet availability was on a game-by-game basis; some titles just wouldn't play nice with the new tech.

My overdue Windows 10 clean installation prompted a final push to finagle FreeSync into working order without any driver or settings cruft. I tried different permutations: single/dual monitors, latest WHQL driver, latest beta driver, et cetera, but nothing could get FreeSync working in Overwatch. The problem seemed to be due to maximum refresh rate: if an application ever broke 90 FPS, it would exceed the MG279Q's 35-90Hz adaptive sync range and remove FreeSync as an option for that session. Capping the Radeon output at 89Hz in AMD's control panel did nothing, and I was at my wit's end.

The silver bullet resided in my GPU's Win10 display adaptor settings (the interface that you usually access via the Device Manager). I chose the option to cap GPU output at 90Hz across the board (2D/3D), and suddenly FreeSync was a feature, not an aspiration. The tech is truly impressive, and games feel much more vibrant without tearing.

Unfortunately, forcing a maximum refresh rate via Windows has caused intermittent corruption in 2D (that is immediately fixed by reverting 144Hz), so I'm left wondering if this setting is a Band-Aid instead of a permanent fix. Perhaps an RMA is in order, but I'd like to hear from other FreeSync users before I proceed. I've been eyeing the new 1070s and eBay, as selling my current hardware might get me within $250-$300 of upgrading both performance and stability through a GTX 1070 and GSync IPS.

Does FreeSync work reliably for you? Do you have to monkey around with refresh rates to enable adaptive sync?
 
anotherengineer
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:03 pm

While I can't say since I do not own a card or monitor capable of it, I am an avid reader of tftcentral. They have encountered issues with both implementations (gsync and freesync), however some of it appears to be traced back to monitor firmware and some to drivers.

If you are having issues though hopefully you are reporting them to both the monitor manufactured and AMD so they know about and can try to replicate and resolve the issue(s).

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archiv ... z_firmware

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_mg279q.htm

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xg270hu.htm
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Topinio
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:29 pm

Interesting write up. To answer your questions, yes FreeSync works reliably for me, and no I do not have to mess around -- it just works.

I am running a BenQ XL2730Z off a XFX R9 290X on Windows 7 Professional (64b), and am now tempted to drag out an old monitor to use as a secondary screen in an attempt to reproduce your b0rkage.

Have you seen any evidence that G-SYNC does or doesn't work with a mismatched secondary screen?
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Kretschmer
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:38 pm

Topinio wrote:
Interesting write up. To answer your questions, yes FreeSync works reliably for me, and no I do not have to mess around -- it just works.

I am running a BenQ XL2730Z off a XFX R9 290X on Windows 7 Professional (64b), and am now tempted to drag out an old monitor to use as a secondary screen in an attempt to reproduce your b0rkage.

Have you seen any evidence that G-SYNC does or doesn't work with a mismatched secondary screen?

No, I have not researched GSync issues.
 
Kretschmer
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:41 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
While I can't say since I do not own a card or monitor capable of it, I am an avid reader of tftcentral. They have encountered issues with both implementations (gsync and freesync), however some of it appears to be traced back to monitor firmware and some to drivers.

If you are having issues though hopefully you are reporting them to both the monitor manufactured and AMD so they know about and can try to replicate and resolve the issue(s).

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/news_archiv ... z_firmware

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/asus_mg279q.htm

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/acer_xg270hu.htm

I love TFT Central. A few relevant quotes from their MG279Q review:

The MG279Q has a limited FreeSync operational range between 35Hz and 90Hz, so if you set your refresh rate manually to anything above 90Hz it will disable FreeSync and you'll get a pop up message telling you so.


My issues in a nutshell.

If you do output more than 90fps then you have the choice as to whether the screen behaves as if Vsync is on or off, outside of FreeSync range. Tearing tends to be less problematic at higher refresh rates anyway so you could well have FreeSync operation between 35 and 90Hz, and then have Vsync off for anything above, in case you can output more than 90 fps regularly.


How?
 
weaktoss
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:02 pm

Thanks for the information, this will be useful for me as I continue to waffle for the next few years over a monitor purchase.

Kretschmer wrote:
How?

Simon is pretty active both on twitter and on his own forums at TFT Central. You may have some luck trying to reach him directly to see how he managed to do it.
 
Topinio
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:13 pm

Topinio wrote:
Interesting write up. To answer your questions, yes FreeSync works reliably for me, and no I do not have to mess around -- it just works.

I am running a BenQ XL2730Z off a XFX R9 290X on Windows 7 Professional (64b), and am now tempted to drag out an old monitor to use as a secondary screen in an attempt to reproduce your b0rkage.

Not reproducible (yet?) with a BenQ G2420HDB attached on DVI.
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Kretschmer
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:29 pm

Mods, move this to "Graphics"? I do believe that I messed up the posting.
 
Kretschmer
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 2:31 pm

Note that said Borkage (FreeSync not kicking in for Overwatch and other games unless fixed at 90Hz at the Windows level) is reproducible with or without a secondary display.
 
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 5:54 pm

I have the same display, Asus MG279 and also an Asus 290x CU II.

I set desktop refresh to be at 90Hz default, and that seems to keep Freesync in play at all times, no matter the game. I also have a secondary monitor, being a benq. And that causes a bit of problem with sleep mode.
At return from sleep mode, the Freesync is detected as a normal monitor, then switches to Freesync, causing my window placements to reset to main monitor, now being Freesync. That is my worst issue.
Then I also have another smaller issue in that when I alt-tab out of a full screen game, somehow, the desktop sync is lost so it changes between 35 and 90 Hz, and thus become very flickery. Alt tab back into the game, and it works fine, or if you run the game in windowed full screen.

Except for those gripes, it's been just dandy and running all games without V-sync and still avoid tearing is great. Not to mention that the Freesync timing makes it look smoother then a specific set timer as well, which I really like.
Just getting from my old Dell u3011 at 60Hz to 90 Hz has been immensely helpful in most games, and running a single graphics card I pretty much trim everything to maximum fidelity while still always try to maintain a minimum of above 60 FPS but below 90fps.

I'd still support Freesync any day because in practice, it works more then well enough, and considering the fact that G-sync is a proprietary and closed standard with only your wallet as a target, I prefer Freesync. Now, G-sync might be technically a bit better, especially going to 144Hz at certain monitors, but having a single card do that in most modern games, it's not always feasible, so I would say that Freesync is more then good enough, and somewhat preferable from a moral perspective, while G-sync might be technically slightly superior, but not enough to warrant the cost unless you already have a banging NVidia card.
 
f0d
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Mon Jun 06, 2016 6:13 pm

freesync "just works" for me also
all i did was....
turn on freesync in the settings on the monitor
enable freesync in the driver
set windows refresh rate to the maximum of my monitor
turn on vsync

then it just worked without any troubles, my only problem with freesync is that it doesnt make much of a difference for me to care about it, its great below 50fps or so but i never play any games under 75fps - id rather lower in game settings than lower fps
Image
 
Kretschmer
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:05 am

f0d wrote:
freesync "just works" for me also
all i did was....
turn on freesync in the settings on the monitor
enable freesync in the driver
set windows refresh rate to the maximum of my monitor
turn on vsync


Maximum refresh rate or maximum freesync refresh rate?
 
Topinio
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:16 am

Kretschmer wrote:
Maximum refresh rate or maximum freesync refresh rate?

Could be the same thing, is on mine :D
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Terra_Nocuus
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:34 am

Topinio wrote:
Have you seen any evidence that G-SYNC does or doesn't work with a mismatched secondary screen?


I have the TN-based ROG Swift paired with an old Dell 2005FPW (1680x1050), have not experienced any issues with G-Sync. Windows 8.1, GTX 980, most recent driver, Dell on a DVI port (I think).
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DPete27
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Tue Jun 07, 2016 8:58 am

Kretschmer wrote:
If you do output more than 90fps then you have the choice as to whether the screen behaves as if Vsync is on or off, outside of FreeSync range. Tearing tends to be less problematic at higher refresh rates anyway so you could well have FreeSync operation between 35 and 90Hz, and then have Vsync off for anything above, in case you can output more than 90 fps regularly.

How?

IIRC the Vsync setting is in the AMD drivers. I seem to remember them adding this functionality to CCC/Crimson shortly after they introduced freesync (but this was added before the LFC functionality).

[Add] this old article mentions the Vsync on or off bit for framerates outside the Freesync range. (seems like maybe it was a feature from the start)
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Voldenuit
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Re: Kretschmer's FreeSync Ramblings

Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:19 am

Terra_Nocuus wrote:
Topinio wrote:
Have you seen any evidence that G-SYNC does or doesn't work with a mismatched secondary screen?


I have the TN-based ROG Swift paired with an old Dell 2005FPW (1680x1050), have not experienced any issues with G-Sync. Windows 8.1, GTX 980, most recent driver, Dell on a DVI port (I think).



Another user with the ROG Swift PG278Q (TN) 1440p@120 Hz and an Acer KH27UL 1440p@60 Hz. G-Sync works with no problems. Windows 7, GTX970, both monitors on DP.
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