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Ifalna
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Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:58 am

Hey there, fellow TR readers.

I've been thinking about buying a new monitor for the last 1.5 years or so, but I have a problem. My typical approach of "do research and find a model suitable to you" just doesn't seem to work
this time around. So I thought, I ask you for advice.

Here is what I have now:
21.5" BenQ TN LED
Why would I want replace a perfectly working display?!:
-the TN panel color/contrast shift is pretty annoying over the years.
-I'd like to have bigger screen, esp for watching movies. ._.

What I do with it:
Pretty much everything. I don't own a TV, so my computer virtually handles all my entertainment needs, from gaming (mostly MMOs, but I occasionally dabble in other genres) to BluRay watching to working with office programs/Internet browsing. I don't do any graphical work (Photoshop etc) though.

What I am aiming for:
I want to pair the new monitor with a 1070 class graphics card in order to future proof my system and because my old 7870 is getting a bit tired. 
Since I sit in front of it, I doubt a panel size < 32" would make sense, as I would have to move my head all the time.
Also I would prefer a thin bezel. Not a must have, but would be nice.

What I am confused about:
Well with panel sizes of 27-32" I'm not sure whether 4K makes much sense, esp given the fact that I already wear glasses (-5dpt) and thus am not exactly "eagle eyed" enough in order to appreciate the clearness of a high ppi display also, there is the software scaling problematic to consider.
I hear people praise variable refresh rate and 120Hz+ refresh rates, both don't seem to work that nicely together with 4K.
So would a 1440p display make more sense?
Last but not least: upcoming tech like HDR, enhanced color gamut etc. Imho it doesn't seem to be in mainstream reach for at least 5 years.

If I input G-Sync and 27", I typically end up with madness like this:
German Hardware seller making me question whether these kind of prices (800+ € for a display) are to be expected or whether they only sell "derpgamer" hardware at extra expensive price points.

Any insight you can share would be appreciated.

Fair day to you
Ifalna
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JustAnEngineer
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:12 am

4K doesn't have to break the bank.  I'd prefer a larger (40-ish inch) display for that resolution, but take a look at these:
$350 or $400 Monoprice 28" 3840x2160 IPS 60Hz monitor

P.S.:  The "IPS" disappeared from the pre-order listing.  The specs definitely look like TN as the OP pointed out.  :oops:
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifalna
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:41 am

Viewing Angle  170° left/right, 160° up/down

Reads like a TN panel to me.
Also I should add that I live in Germany. I can't even find anything called "monoprice" here. :D
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:08 am

I have been looking at similar type replacement and this is what I think I will get:
Acer K272HUL bmiidp Black IPS 27" ---  $340   
Newer version 
Acer K272HUL Dbmidpx  Black IPS 27" ---- $350

Good luck on you search and let us know what you end up with
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:31 am

One of the 29" ultrawides might be good for you. It's basically a 23" 16:9 with black bars at the side if you find a game that doesn't work in 16:9 but it'll make games that support 21:9 (a growing list) awesome and movies too.

LG's 29UC88 might be worth a look given the relatively low cost for a curved, Freesync, 2560x1080 panel.

The thing to do is probably head into a store and look at a few panels of known models to get a feel for the differences.

  • TN = Fast but sample-and-hold blur still makes motion blur visible, almost as much as IPS and VA panel types.
  • IPS = Best viewing angles but lower contrast (greys instead of black) and often quite severe washout at the corners, not dissimilar to TN's above-angle washout
  • VA = The slowest of the lot but with undoubtedly the most vibrant colours and best contrast (inky dark black). This is my choice for dark games and movies but probably not ideal for your competitive twitch shooter or a strobing backlight display. They have a colour shift horizontally but it's not as bad as TN's vertical shift and a curved screen mitigates that almost entirely.

I wouldn't worry about G-Sync unless you have lots of disposable income. You can pick up decent 2560x1440 and 2560x1080 screens for less than the "G-Sync tax" alone in some cases.

4K is honestly more hassle than it's worth unless you can get one big enough to bring the PPI down to at least 125ppi - which means a 35" screen, and even then the text is going to be smaller than you're used to. Using Windows DPI scaling is pointless because so much stuff is rasterised that it's a disaster. Literally the only things that work 100% properly are Microsoft Edge and Windows Explorer.

If you're buying a VA or IPS panel, curved will genuinely help with image quality, and VA panels tend to do better here as they curve more and suffer washout less. Ignore claims of 144Hz, 165Hz or 200Hz VA or IPS panels - Serious in-depth reviews (tftcentral) prove that the panel response is on average only good enough for about 100Hz, and chances are you're going to be more interested in variable refresh rates somewhere around 50-60fps anyway. If you do go for a Freesync panel with the intention of using VRR, try to get one where the upper limit of the range is 2.5x the lower limit. In the case of 40-75Hz panels, look to see if people have successfully overclocked them as a lot of the 40-75Hz panels seem to do 32-80Hz or 30-75Hz, both of which meet the 2.5x requirement of LFC. Freesync without LFC is inferior to G-Sync, whilst Freesync with LFC is functionally-identical but unquestionably superior for cost/flexibility/input/scaler reasons.

Feel free to ask me about stuff, I currently own/have access to:
  • 24" G-Sync 144Hz 1080p TN panel
  • 35" G-Sync 200Hz 2560x1080 VA panel
  • 29" Freesync 32-80Hz 2560x1080 IPS panel
  • 27" Freesync 144Hz 1080p VA panel
  • 27" Fixed 60Hz 1440p IPS panel
  • Several 4K televisions ranging from 40"-80"
  • 28" Fixed 60Hz 4K TN panel
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:06 am

I would go for a 120+Hz IPS in traditional format (not 21:9) @ 27".  The MG279Q is a good panel for the price.
Reasoning:
-G-Sync isn't a great fit for price conscious consumers
-IPS is pretty nifty
-There isn't a lot of 21:9 content out there (e.g. streaming, and some games lock you in to the traditional ratio for fair play reasons), though 21:9 is godly for office work.
-Once you play at 100+ FPS, even 60FPS seems "off"
-Monitors larger than 27" are either hideously expensive or show more tearing, right now

As always, TFT Central is a great place for monitor reviews: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
 
Ifalna
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:19 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
I wouldn't worry about G-Sync unless you have lots of disposable income. You can pick up decent 2560x1440 and 2560x1080 screens for less than the "G-Sync tax" alone in some cases.

4K is honestly more hassle than it's worth unless you can get one big enough to bring the PPI down to at least 125ppi - which means a 35" screen, and even then the text is going to be smaller than you're used to. Using Windows DPI scaling is pointless because so much stuff is rasterised that it's a disaster. Literally the only things that work 100% properly are Microsoft Edge and Windows Explorer.

[Freesync mumbo jumbo]

I guess I have to agree to these points.
G-Sync does seem to be rather ridiculously expensive, considering that I already need a new card in conjunction with the display, it might be prudent to just ignore it for this upgrade round.
My boss has an Ultrabook with some weird 15" 4K display. Half the programs I saw when I was updating it for him had parts or popups that were suddenly super small b/c the scaling hasn't been applied properly. Was my first encounter with high ppi displays and not a pleasant one to be honest. At the monitor sizes I can comfortably use, 30" is pushing it (probably OVERpushing already room space wise), since I do have 2 displays and originally planned to continue to use my current display as a second monitor while retiring my trusty old 17" BenQ.
27" is probably the most reasonable size here. 4K is effectively out.
As for the Freesync-Mumbo jumbo:
1) I really don't want to hassle that much with refresh rates. While I am an engineer and consider myself appropriately tech savvy, I don't like to fiddle all the time while using hardware. I figured G-Sync as an "activate and enjoy" kinda thing.
2) It would limit me to AMD GPUs and frankly, I think the 480x is too weak to be future proof (3-4 Years) for 1440p and God only knows when they release the pendant to the 1070. ._.
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:33 am

Freesync is just a set and forget like G-Sync to be honest. One slider in the driver, the monitor probably defaults to Freesync "on" if it's not also a one-off setting never to be touched again.

I wouldn't base your buying choice on Freesync, but if you happen to end up with a combination that supports it, it's a benefit worth having.

One thing I would say is that if you go for any non-G-Sync display and an Nvidia card, make sure you are either happy with just 60Hz or that the panel officially supports 120Hz or more; Nvidia cards (tested with a GTX970, GTX960, and 750Ti) are all incapable of displaying correctly at refresh rates between 60 and 120Hz. at 61-119 Hz, the Nvidia drivers seem to frame skip, so a hypothetical 85Hz display will display frame numbers like this 1-2-3-5-6-7-9-10-11-13-14-15 etc. In other words, they only produce 60 individual frames for the 85Hz display. Not only do you get no more than 60 individual frames a second, you also get uneven animations that skip every 25/60ths of a second, making it really choppy and horrible to watch.

Once you run an Nvidia card at 120Hz, it all seems to work properly again. Just google "Nvidia frame-skip" and grab yourself a popcorn ;)
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:50 am

So you're buying in Germany?  This is helpful information to know, otherwise most people default to newegg.com and US prices.

I'm typing on an 27" 1440p Acer K272HULdmiip and can say it's a great monitor.  It also happens to be one of the cheapest 27" 1440p IPS monitors out there from a name-brand manufacturer.  They actually go on sale quite frequently for $270 here in the US (seems like 1 week per month).  I'd say the only downside for me is that the base is slightly wobbly (common problem on every monitor I've ever owned where the base connects to the bottom of the screen and not the VESA location) and lacks height adjustment (easy to discern from pictures of the product).  I knew about those "weaknesses" before purchasing and I still bought one and am happy with it.

Ifalna wrote:
I really don't want to hassle that much with refresh rates [FreeSync]

....?  FreeSync and Gsync are for all practical purposes the exact same thing.  There is not any more hassle in activating FreeSync than activating Gsync.  Hence why so many people are up in arms about Nvidia not supporting FreeSync.  In related news it looks like GSync is losing horribly to FreeSync in market popularity and AMD is gaining GPU market share from Nvidia also.  Lets hope this trend continues and FORCES Nvidia to get their heads out of the sand.  At any rate, if you can find a FreeSync monitor for around the same price as a non-free sync monitor, I'd get it, even if you're buying a GTX1070.  Chances are the FreeSync monitor will have higher "static" (is that what we should call it?) refresh rates than 60Hz anyway ([Edit:] interesting post from Chrispy above...).  You don't really pay a premium for FreeSync in a monitor, you pay a premium for things like higher refresh rate, response time, etc.  Who knows, maybe down the road you can use FreeSync with your GTX1070 or next GPU.
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Ifalna
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:22 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
Freesync is just a set and forget like G-Sync to be honest. One slider in the driver, the monitor probably defaults to Freesync "on" if it's not also a one-off setting never to be touched again.

Once you run an Nvidia card at 120Hz, it all seems to work properly again. Just google "Nvidia frame-skip" and grab yourself a popcorn ;)

Good to know. I was a bit confused because you wrote about "overclockable displays" etc.
To be honest: the more reviews and experiences I read, the more I get the impression that it's pretty much playing lottery when buying a new monitor. Esp when it comes to "IPS backlight bleed" people seem to have rather hideous results when ordering these devices, making me less and less excited about the prospect of ordering one for myself.
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DPete27
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:32 am

Ifalna wrote:
playing the lottery when buying a new monitor

That's why there are professional review sites.  I find user reviews on newegg.com or amazon.com very helpful also, but keeping in mind that people are more apt to write a review if they're dissatisfied.  
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:33 am

Ifalna wrote:
Good to know. I was a bit confused because you wrote about "overclockable displays" etc.


About half of the Freesync displays on the market come with narrow ranges like 48-75Hz. Freesync works automagically with those displays just like G-Sync but if you want to fiddle, you can edit the operation range using an easy tool called "Custom Resolution Utiliy" or "CRU". Having a wider range where there's a 2.5x difference between the upper and lower end of the range is nice because it effectively uses frame doubling (LFC) to make Freesync work right down to slideshow framerates.

Freesync works just fine without LFC, and the benefit of LFC is overshadowed by the stuttering of lower framerates anyway, but it's free and it's easy so it's just one extra benefit that you can choose to experiment with if you have the time (5-10 minutes) and the inclination.


As for TN/IPS/VA quality, ghosting, contrast, viewing angles - yes, you're somewhat right - it *is* a bit of a crapshoot. That's why my initial recommendation to go to a store and see something in the flesh is still worth doing. You might decide that modern TN panels are good enough for you, you might decide that IPS corner glow doesn't really bother you. I can only speak from my experience with my own preferences and they clearly aren't the same as those of others ;)

Happy hunting!
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Ifalna
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:51 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
As for TN/IPS/VA quality, ghosting, contrast, viewing angles - yes, you're somewhat right - it *is* a bit of a crapshoot. That's why my initial recommendation to go to a store and see something in the flesh is still worth doing. You might decide that modern TN panels are good enough for you, you might decide that IPS corner glow doesn't really bother you. I can only speak from my experience with my own preferences and they clearly aren't the same as those of others ;)

Just out of curiosity b/c the thought randomly occurred: what happens to the whole G-Sync/Freesync stuff when you are like me and play in windowed mode most of the time?

I do agree that I should take a trip to a store and see different displays in the flesh. (Not sure if we still have stores with proper selections and testing conditions (FAT chance that they have a dark room for me to investigate panel BLB) here, haven't bought anything tech related in a real store for ... 10 years+? now. :X Gotta ask my buddy.) 

Though to be perfectly honest: I did office with an IPS display and a TN display at work. While no one was looking I was trying to spot differences in viewing angle etc. Have to admit that if no one told me that one was TN and the other was IPS I would not have been able to tell the difference in terms of color etc. Still can't remember anything except a larger vertical viewing angle.
Since you have so many different panels: how dramatic are the differences to you?
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DPete27
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:05 am

Image
Guess which one is IPS.  Both monitors angle directly at me.
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Ifalna
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:10 am

DPete27 wrote:
Guess which one is IPS.  Both monitors angle directly at me.

Umm well you view both at an angle (at least the camera is, because it doesn't sit between the screens).
No clue which one would be the IPS one, but the colors of the right monitor look intense/harsh/unnatural compared to the left one.
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:14 am

I'll throw in another vote for a cheap 1440p- I went from a 27" 1440p IPS (first-gen panels from eBay from Korean Manufacturers) and then work upgraded me to a Dell IPS 27" 60 Hz 4K monitor (P2715Q), and honestly, I missed the 1440p. At this size and for desk usage, I don't think I'd ever go for a 4K again- looks about the same and I prefer the scaling on the 1440p. Anectdotally, we had a lot of problems with these dell displays, running off of IGP on ~15 Dell Skylake workstations, relating to power-saving features of DP. Monitor HAS to be on and waiting when you turn the computer on, or it would never get the signal (requiring hard reboot), and we had problems with the monitors not getting signal when waking the machines from sleep. You can fix waking with some windows power settings, but out of the box, it was annoying for a $500 monitor. HDMI was plug-n-play as expected, it was a DP issue, and it's not something I'd heard about from other DP monitors.
 
The other thing I'd consider, if work is your primarily use and you've got the cash for future-proofing, is a 34" or larger  3440x1440 ultrawide. I think it's worth seeing something like the LG 34UM88C-P in person. It's not for everybody, but I really dig it as a dual-screen replacement, with the upside of some widescreen games. We've also got some of the cheaper 2560x1080 ultrawides at work and it's not the same- you need those extra vertical pixels to make it worth it unless you're really cranking up scaling anyway because of poor eyesight.
 
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:21 am

The monitors are angled slightly inward so that if you drew a line perpendicular from the face of each screen, the two lines would roughly meet at my camera.  The viewing angle to each monitor from my working position is essentially zero.
The Dell TN is massively washed out compared to the Acer IPS.  Admittedly the Dell is about as bad as TN panels come.  
Since transitioning to IPS, I've decided that if you've only ever looked at TN panels, another TN panel won't bother you.  But even cheap 6-bit IPS monitors (like my $150 24" Asus at home) look incredible compared to any TN I've seen. But, I haven't personally seen any modern "high end" TN panels yet.
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Ifalna
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:31 am

DPete27 wrote:
The Dell TN 

So, the right one is the one that's supposed to have the accurate colors?
Hm. Okay. 
Guess it's pretty difficult to judge color accuracy via Monitor -> camera -> image compression -> browser image processing -> yet another TN panel. :D
Anyhow, I appreciate the effort. I'd agree that the left screen looks a little greyish/washed out. Imho, realistic colors would lie somewhere in between both monitors. The water looks nice on your acer, but the blue of the sky is just piercing and extreme.
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:36 am

Yes, the blue on the left monitor in that picture is more unrealistically vivid than what it looks like in real life.  The dark areas are also more exaggerated in the picture than real life.  Cell phone camera....
Last edited by DPete27 on Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:37 am

Ifalna wrote:
Just out of curiosity b/c the thought randomly occurred: what happens to the whole G-Sync/Freesync stuff when you are like me and play in windowed mode most of the time?


Nothing. Works like a standard monitor at whatever your desktop refresh rate is. Even normal vsync isn't supported in windowed mode for a lot of things.

Ifalna wrote:
Since you have so many different panels: how dramatic are the differences to you?


Depends on what you're doing and what lighting you're playing/watching in:

Under bright/daytime light conditions the differences between all the panel techs isn't that great because you have the brightness cranked up and the external lighting hides most of the TN washout, IPS glow and backlight bleeding. Depends on the TN panel but some of them still look desaturated. DPete's Dell looks so bad that the left image is almost monochrome when clearly the sunset should be full of rich colour, it's a sunset - they're not known for their monochromatic dullness ;)

It's really really obvious when you're in a dark room though, a cinema-like environment for movies, or a darkened room for atmospheric gaming. For this reason I'm really enjoying the VA panels. I bought a VA television for my living room specifically because I wanted a good dark room performance and every time I watch a movie/show at someone else's house I'm reminded how much the backlight leak and greyish blacks can ruin a movie. Even on bright, cheerful content the backlight bleed and low black performance is painfully obvious because so many things put black bar letterboxing on the screen.

There is no perfect panel tech. OLED came close but it's too expensive and burns out fast, so you now have to choose between speed, accuracy, or black-level performance.
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:00 am

Ifalna wrote:
It would limit me to AMD GPUs and frankly, I think the 480x is too weak to be future proof (3-4 Years) for 1440p and God only knows when they release the pendant to the 1070. ._.


Vega is the successor to the Fury range and that launched at the same time as the 980ti in June last year so I'd expect those cards to show up at around the turn of the year. nVidia launching the 1080ti version of the PTitan X would be a good sign AMD are about to launch.

CES at the start of January is a good bet, but it could potentially happen earlier.

In terms of monitors I'm waiting for the 5120x2160 screens to start showing up myself. If I had to buy now then the 35" 2560x1080 VA screens like the AOC C3583FQ are pretty tempting, although it's at the opposite end of the dpi scale to 1920x1080@21.5" so you'd probably want to place it a bit further away from you (which is great if there's currently a lot of wasted space behind your monitor).

p.s. In the photo the Dell definitely looks like it has the better picture. The Acer looks like an sRGB picture displayed on a wide gamut screen with the typical overblown colours.
 
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:18 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
Ifalna wrote:
Just out of curiosity b/c the thought randomly occurred: what happens to the whole G-Sync/Freesync stuff when you are like me and play in windowed mode most of the time?


Nothing. Works like a standard monitor at whatever your desktop refresh rate is. Even normal vsync isn't supported in windowed mode for a lot of things.

Correction: G-Sync will work with windowed apps, including borderless windowed games that many UWP games default to.
I can even run MPC-HC with G-sync, if I enable the D3D presenter, but I've found that 120 Hz ULMB is my sweet spot instead.
A 1070 + G-Sync display is indeed a great combination, but it's not cheap. Unfortunately, until Vega comes out, AMD has no attractive options for upper-midrange performance parts. I sympathize with Chrispy about the G-Sync tax, but I was lucky enough to get a ROG Swift (TN) refurb at a good (for G-sync) price, and I wouldn't go back to 60Hz.
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:16 pm

Be patient and wait for a shell shocker or other comparable deal.  I held out for almost three months but I got exactly what I wanted at a great price for doing so.  27" IPS 144hz 1440p freesync for $350.  Couldnt be happier.
 
TheRazorsEdge
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 12:53 pm

I was in a similar position last year, with similar uses. With the holiday season coming, it is probably wise to wait for sales---it paid off for me to the tune of ~$150.

While I used to go all-out on monitors because they last through several upgrade cycles, I don't see a lot of value in the recent trends. I might buy into HDR now, but it's too new to trust that it will be widely adopted.

I don't see a lot of 4K content, and we're at the point where resolution is offering diminishing returns. High refresh rates are nice, but I usually tune my settings so I run in the 60-90 fps range anyway. Since neither of us play twitch shooters, there isn't a concern over some hypothetical sub-2-ms competitive edge.

Higher resolution than 1080p is very nice, but 4K is overkill, so a 1440p or 1600p screen made more sense for me. Especially since I can maintain good performance at native resolution easily. My GTX 1070 handles everything flawlessly at 2560*1600, whereas I would need a 1080 to run at 4K. Those 4K monitors have a hidden cost in the form of a higher-tier GPU to feed them.

With all of those considerations, I chose the predecessor to this monitor:

http://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=1 ... p_id=10734

Definitely choose something with a solid reputation if you can afford it. I've seen monitors with uneven lighting and backlight bleed, and let me tell you how bad buyer's remorse feels on those purchases.
 
ChicagoDave
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:03 pm

llisandro wrote:
The other thing I'd consider, if work is your primarily use and you've got the cash for future-proofing, is a 34" or larger  3440x1440 ultrawide. I think it's worth seeing something like the LG 34UM88C-P in person. It's not for everybody, but I really dig it as a dual-screen replacement, with the upside of some widescreen games. We

Agreed - I can't recommend 34" 3440x1440 monitors enough.  I'll personally never go back to 16:9 or 16:10 monitors again; I use OG LG34UM95 for gaming, surfing the web, watching movies, you name it.  The extra immersion you get in supported games is amazing, and for productivity nothing beats having essentially dual screens with no bezel.  Go check one out in person if you haven't seen one already, I think you'll come away impressed.
 
CScottG
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:28 pm

-a cherry-pick deal if it's accurate:

https://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new
 
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:02 pm

On my work desk I have 2 27" 1440p and a 28" 2160p. I use the latter very rarely, basically only when I have a monster spreadsheet. If I were to do it again, I'd get a third 1440p.
 
travbrad
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 3:36 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
  • TN = Fast but sample-and-hold blur still makes motion blur visible, almost as much as IPS and VA panel types.
  • IPS = Best viewing angles but lower contrast (greys instead of black) and often quite severe washout at the corners, not dissimilar to TN's above-angle washout
  • VA = The slowest of the lot but with undoubtedly the most vibrant colours and best contrast (inky dark black). This is my choice for dark games and movies but probably not ideal for your competitive twitch shooter or a strobing backlight display. They have a colour shift horizontally but it's not as bad as TN's vertical shift and a curved screen mitigates that almost entirely.

I pretty much agree with this.  Unfortunately there isn't really one type of display that gets everything right for a wide range of uses.  OLED is supposedly going to save us all but we've been hearing that for the last decade and they are only just now dropping into the 4 figures range.  Dell has a new OLED 4K 120hz monitor coming out that is...wait for it....$5000.  The only way to get the "best of both worlds" for a reasonable price right now is to have 2 or 3 different monitors.
Ifalna wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
The Dell TN 

So, the right one is the one that's supposed to have the accurate colors?
Hm. Okay. 
Guess it's pretty difficult to judge color accuracy via Monitor -> camera -> image compression -> browser image processing -> yet another TN panel. :D
Anyhow, I appreciate the effort. I'd agree that the left screen looks a little greyish/washed out. Imho, realistic colors would lie somewhere in between both monitors. The water looks nice on your acer, but the blue of the sky is just piercing and extreme.

So much of it depends on how they have been calibrated too.  All types of monitors can have some pretty terrible defaults and presets.  I'd say TNs get the calibration wrong more than IPS overall, but neither are that great "out of the box" usually.  Not all TN panels are equal to each other either and the same is true for IPS.
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Ifalna
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:25 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
It's really really obvious when you're in a dark room though, a cinema-like environment for movies, or a darkened room for atmospheric gaming. For this reason I'm really enjoying the VA panels. I bought a VA television for my living room specifically because I wanted a good dark room performance and every time I watch a movie/show at someone else's house I'm reminded how much the backlight leak and greyish blacks can ruin a movie. Even on bright, cheerful content the backlight bleed and low black performance is painfully obvious because so many things put black bar letterboxing on the screen.

Yeah this is why I never dared to actually order an IPS display, considering that I am contemplating this decision for 1.5 years now. I usually sit in dim lit rooms and do like to turn the lights off for movie watching. On my current display I only have very little of the greyish LCD glow and pretty even lighting. I know that more of said glow would bother me greatly.
Good suggestions everyone. That LG display surely does look nice, but damn 34" is huge. Also it remains to be seen how games that are not compatible behave on such a display. ^^

I will try watching out for special offers, but in my experience, ours aren't even anywhere near as interesting as the offers you Americans get. All in all prices are high and rather stable over here. Anyhow, no need to jump the gun. If need be I can continue to contemplate this decision for another 1.5years. After all it's not a pressing need to "upgrade".... yet. (Though I really do need a new card. Playing Witcher 3 with ~18 FPS is not fun at all)._.
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Re: Wanting new monitor, research ends in confusion

Fri Oct 14, 2016 5:34 pm

travbrad wrote:
Ifalna wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
The Dell TN 

So, the right one is the one that's supposed to have the accurate colors?
Hm. Okay. 
Guess it's pretty difficult to judge color accuracy via Monitor -> camera -> image compression -> browser image processing -> yet another TN panel. :D
Anyhow, I appreciate the effort. I'd agree that the left screen looks a little greyish/washed out. Imho, realistic colors would lie somewhere in between both monitors. The water looks nice on your acer, but the blue of the sky is just piercing and extreme.

So much of it depends on how they have been calibrated too.  All types of monitors can have some pretty terrible defaults and presets.  I'd say TNs get the calibration wrong more than IPS overall, but neither are that great "out of the box" usually.  Not all TN panels are equal to each other either and the same is true for IPS.

The Dell S2716DG and the Asus PG278Q are both 8-bit TN panels with 10 bit FRC, and while neither is calibrated out of the box, can be pretty decent with canned .icc scripts or professional calibration with a Calman or Spyder.
I went with a canned icc script off pcmonitors.uk for my Asus, as I don't print or export much to the web, and I'm more interested in a pleasant , punchy image for home use and gaming. The important things for me were gamut, banding, dithering, and channel clipping, all of which the PG278Q excelled in for me.
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