Personal computing discussed

Moderators: Dposcorp, SpotTheCat

 
Dirge
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:08 am

Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:00 pm

I am wondering if anyone has had success going from 60Hz to 144Hz to reduce eye strain?

I have pretty good eyesight and can read fine print, but get fatigued pretty badly when looking at LCDs.

- I have some computer glasses which have helped immensely.
- f.lux helps to some degree but the glasses are better for me.
- I have the brightness down to 30%
- I dont use the display in a dark room
- I use eye drops but still wake up with soreness.

Oh I also have a non PWM flicker free display. I feel like I am doing everything right and wondering if upgrading to a higher refresh rate will help me?
FDISK /MBR
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51054
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:11 pm

I would think that flicker is already pretty minimal, given your setup. If you're viewing a lot of fast-moving images 144Hz might help?
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Dirge
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:08 am

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:28 pm

Hi JBI, you might be right. I am not much of a gamer and mostly looking at static text. Also like most people I spend far too many hours in front of the PC.
FDISK /MBR
 
Spyder22446688
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1875
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:28 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington
Contact:

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:54 pm

I went from a 60Hz Dell Ultrasharp IPS to a 144Hz Asus IPS. Primary purpose was gaming, but in reality I'm too busy and use the new display for plenty of office work. Honestly, I noticed zero difference and was pretty disappointed. From what I had read, the jump from 60 to 144 was supposed to be dramatic, like a religious experience, even for non-gaming stuff. Nuts, nope.
x--x--x--x
 
Dirge
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:08 am

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:18 pm

Spyder do you have issues with your eyes you were hoping to fix? Hopefully you will find some time for some casual gaming.
FDISK /MBR
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 18026
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:19 pm

I'm thinking of bundling this with Vega. Tell me that it will be an upgrade from my 10 year-old UltraSharp 3007WFP + 15 year-old 2001FP.
i7-8700K, H100i v2, RoG Strix Z370-G Gaming, 16 GiB, RX Vega64, 960Pro SSD, 5TB HDD, Define Mini-C, SS-660XP2, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
Spyder22446688
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1875
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:28 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington
Contact:

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:28 pm

Dirge wrote:
Spyder do you have issues with your eyes you were hoping to fix? Hopefully you will find some time for some casual gaming.

No issues, my eyesight is getting worse with age, which I attribute mainly to staring at a display, so I do try and buy quality displays and take frequent breaks.

And thanks for the gaming wish!
x--x--x--x
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3601
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:37 pm

My experience is as follows...

Dell U2410 (60Hz IPS) + Dell U2415 (60Hz IPS) 2011-2016
Asus PG279Q (165Hz AHVA/IPS) 2016- Present

I enjoyed both setups, but I won't oversell the regular desktop smoothness. It's not nothing, but I won't sing praises of regular desktop use at 120/144Hz. It's great, if only a little bit better for regular desktop usage than 60Hz. For games? It's way better. I don't play as much as I used to, but I still play enough games that 120Hz+GTX 1080 on the Gsync screen is very nice.

Colors are great on all the above. No complaints. I'm also of the odd crowd that likes one "larger," higher-density monitor rather than multiples so moving to 2560x1440 was nice for me coming from 1920x1200.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
bfg-9000
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 206
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2016 9:17 pm

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:05 pm

No, because unlike a CRT the image on a LCD doesn't start to fade between refreshes. The only difference is the image changes after 16.7ms at 60Hz and 6.9ms at 144Hz.

As you suspect, PWM of the backlight is the big cause of eyestrain but I expect even LED backlighting at low brightness will strobe more often than 144Hz.
 
RAGEPRO
Gerbil
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:50 am
Location: Golden Triangle, Texas
Contact:

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:46 pm

Spyder22446688 wrote:
Honestly, I noticed zero difference and was pretty disappointed. From what I had read, the jump from 60 to 144 was supposed to be dramatic, like a religious experience, even for non-gaming stuff. Nuts, nope.
That's interesting. I am among the category of folks who describe the move as like a religious experience (mostly for gaming than for desktop use, though the difference is noticeable.) I suspect you'd tell the difference using a 144Hz and a 60Hz monitor side-by-side, or going back to a 60Hz primary display. Unless... not to be insulting, just to be sure—you have set your monitor to 144Hz, right? I have found that it's important to check because sometimes Windows doesn't properly default to the highest refresh rate.

Anyway, as to the actual topic at hand, I would definitely say that a 144Hz display could reduce eye strain, but I think you're better off looking at options with wide color gamuts and (especially) rich contrast. I find that low contrast TN and IPS displays are the number one thing that causes me eyestrain as I struggle to pick out fine details in images. Another thing I'll say is to simply sit closer, move your monitors nearer to your face (try mounting them on an articulating arm), or buy larger, lower-DPI monitors. Alternatively, buy extremely high-DPI monitors and enable upscaling. Finally, if you haven't in a few years, you should get your eyes checked. I recently got new glasses and the change in my quality of life has been absolutely shocking.
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25441
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:32 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
I'm thinking of bundling this with Vega. Tell me that it will be an upgrade from my 10 year-old UltraSharp 3007WFP + 15 year-old 2001FP.

That one does not do quantum dots though. Will you be losing resolution going from the 2 monitors down to 1?
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
curtisb
Gerbil XP
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:27 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:57 pm

bfg-9000 wrote:
No, because unlike a CRT the image on a LCD doesn't start to fade between refreshes.


This right here. A day of using a CRT at 60Hz would leave me with a near migraine-level headache every time...especially when combined with overhead fluorescent lighting. A simple move to 85Hz solved that problem. This was at work with normal desktop usage...no gaming. LCD's don't refresh in the same way so they shouldn't cause the same sort of eyestrain. I'm not saying there isn't a strobe effect...point a digital camera at an LCD screen and you can see it...but it's not nearly to the level of a CRT.

The higher refresh rate will just reduce tearing (or eliminate it if your frame rate doesn't exceed the refresh rate) in fast moving images like gaming.

Are you sure it's the LCD causing the eyestrain and not the lighting? It could also be the reduced brightness on your monitor. Having it at 30% could be causing your eyes to strain harder to see the screen. Maybe try bumping that up just a little. My eyes are mildly light sensitive and I don't generally have issues with quality LCD panels. Mine are sensitive enough that being in bright sun light for too long will give me a headache...so much so that non-polarized sunglasses don't help. I love my Revo's. :)
ASUS MAXIMUS VIII HERO | Intel Core i7-6700 | Asus STRIX GTX 970 4GB | 4 x Corsair LPX 8GB | 2 x Crucial MX200 500GB | 2 x Hitachi Deskstar 4TB | Phanteks Eclipse | Seasonic X-850 | Dell UP2516D
 
Spyder22446688
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1875
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:28 pm
Location: Seattle, Washington
Contact:

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:58 pm

RAGEPRO wrote:
Unless... not to be insulting, just to be sure—you have set your monitor to 144Hz, right? I have found that it's important to check because sometimes Windows doesn't properly default to the highest refresh rate.


Fair question. Both the nVida control panel in Windows and the Asus monitor on-screen-display show 144Hz. And yet, I can't tell any difference switching between my 144Hz desktop monitor and my 60Hz laptop or office screens. Only talking about desktop applications. Haven't had the time for any games. Guess I must just have crappy eyes.
x--x--x--x
 
Dirge
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:08 am

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:56 am

curtisb wrote:
Are you sure it's the LCD causing the eyestrain and not the lighting? It could also be the reduced brightness on your monitor. Having it at 30% could be causing your eyes to strain harder to see the screen. Maybe try bumping that up just a little.



Oh ya its not just my display at home, but others I use at work. I found turning the brightness down to 30% has helped lessen the problem. but I still find white backgrounds just too much to look at.
FDISK /MBR
 
rahulahl
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2012 8:57 am
Location: Australia

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:10 am

Yeah. It does.
I bought my 144Hz mainly for eye strain reasons. Getting a lot less migraines from eye strain now.
And with G-Sync I can play those FPS games for a lot longer before I have to stop that I couldnt play at all before.. Vsync was simply too choppy for someone senstive to these things like me.
Intel i7 4790K
MAXIMUS VII RANGER motherboard
EVGA GTX 1080
16GB Ram
550Watt Seasonic PSU
Asus Rog Swift PG278Q
Windows 10
 
Dirge
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:08 am

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:01 pm

Hi rahulahl, that's really great to hear. Do you think your eye strain resulted from long stretches of gaming, or could you say it was also aggravated by browsing/desktop use? I see DancinJack mention he saw a small benefit from using a 144Hz display on the desktop.

From what I am reading it looks like the experience might be highly subjective and there are allot of variables to take into account with setup and the users prior monitors. I see allot of people saying there wont be any perceptible difference between 60Hz and 144Hz. I would probably need to see a few more positive cases where it has helped with eye strain or dry eyes before I plunk down cash on a new monitor.
FDISK /MBR
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3601
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:09 pm

Just try one out. Find a re/e-tailer that allows 30 day returns or something (cough cough Amazon).
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
DPete27
Silver subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3389
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:57 pm

@ JAE - Lemme know if you get the Samsung C32HG70. That's my most wanted monitor right now also.

@ OP - I do wonder if things like "low blue light" and "flicker free" technology would help you. Also, adjusting brightness and contrast can noticeably relieve eye strain. If text is so small causing you to squint to read, consider DPI scaling and/or getting a larger monitor. Perhaps this Asus TN panel for $240 which has the bonus of height adjustment for ergonomics.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
llisandro
Gerbil
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:30 pm

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:52 am

Drop four grand on an e-ink monitor? :D
I read a lot of PDFs for work, and figured, crap, somebody probably makes a big e-ink monitor, that would be great! They sure do, but not at peasant pricing.
 
RAGEPRO
Gerbil
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:50 am
Location: Golden Triangle, Texas
Contact:

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 8:29 am

Dirge wrote:
I found turning the brightness down to 30% has helped lessen the problem. but I still find white backgrounds just too much to look at.
If brightness is causing you issues, be careful with gaming displays, especially any G-Sync monitor, or ones that have strobing features. Those tend to have ultra-bright backlights to inflate contrast specs, and to help with the dimming that strobing causes.
 
Bauxite
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2006 12:10 pm
Location: electrolytic redox smelting plant

single specs don't matter, it is a total package thing

Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:09 am

The samsung is a great gaming monitor, lots of different ways to tweak the backlight, extra wide gamut if you can use it etc. I sacrificed a goat to the pre-order gods and was rewarded with a flawless panel and a totally unexpected $150 discount. (which was weird because it was out of stock, but it was a long pre-order with multiple delays for a month so lowest list price w/ promo codes during the wait is used) Running on a titan Xp for now which can keep up in most games.

It is only an 'ok' lots of small text monitor, it does have a somewhat different subpixel arrangement and by default is pretty bright. Honestly I would go for a 4k IPS with a good backlight for general computer use, and crank up the scaling. Of the various different screens I've used recently, I would say the 27" 4k P2715Q was the easiest on the eyes for long sessions with boring documents and reports. Ran at 150 or 200% of course, it is not a super fast refresh or response panel for games, but 24/30hz media looked great too.
TR 1950x 16c32t - 2018: Pretty much done with intel on the desktop.
E5 2696v4 22c44t 2.2~3.7Ghz - The last great gleam of the pre-nerf HEDT era.
E5 1680v2 8c16t 4.5Ghz - "Yes Virginia, there were unlocked xeons" /weep for them.
 
Chrispy_
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 3:49 pm
Location: Europe, most frequently London.

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:21 am

Tracking motion on a screen that suffers sample+hold blur (any LCD without strobing backlight) causes eyestrain, but if you're not gaming you are already doing everything correctly.

A higher refresh rate isn't going to do anything for static content because there's no flicker from the backlight even at 60Hz and it sounds like you're reading static text/images a lot of the time.

Get an eye test. Even if you can read fine print, you may find that the focal distance of your screen is closer than your eyes are now comfortable with - and that moving to a larger, lower-dpi screen that's further away might help.

My eyesight is still good (I can read text at native resolution on a 4K 13.3" laptop screen) but I was suffering from tired, dry red eyes and after a test the optician suggested sitting further from my monitor. I now use a 32" 1440p screen instead of a 27" 1440p screen and I just have it about nine inches further away from me. The end result is much the same, but it's noticeably less strain on my eyes.

I also think that a curved screen would help, provided that there's enough curvature, since this reduces the change in focal distance beween the centre of the screen and the edges. If you are suffering because the constant change of focal distance is tiring your eyes out, this could be a good solution too. Only an optician can tell you the limits of your eyesight, so just make sure you're not pushing your eye muscles close to that limit all the time with your monitor.
Congratulations, you've noticed that this year's signature is based on outdated internet memes; CLICK HERE NOW to experience this unforgettable phenomenon. This sentence is just filler and as irrelevant as my signature.
 
tanker27
Gerbil Khan
Posts: 9128
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Georgia

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:05 am

A couple of things that can help alleviate eye strain while at the computer:

- Indirect light location. Some of us work in cube farms and have harsh florescent overhead lighting which is the worse set up. But at home having a softer light behind and off to the side of the monitor/s does wonders. And absolutely no overhead lighting. I use a free standing lamp with a 40w incandescent bulb about 6 feet away at a 45 degree angle to the monitor.

-Glasses. Yes Glasses. And NO to those cheap ass gamer glasses from Gunner or that other company, VC something. Real glasses with a real AR coating like Crizal Prevencia (which is what I use, also they are 1.0x powered reading glasses), Zeiss, or even Teflon. All these companies provide coatings that are not only Anti-reflective and UV but also offer Blue-violet light protection in a clear scratch resistant coating. These coating usually cost ~$150 bucks added on to the glasses.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(''')(''')
Watch out for evil Terra-Tron; He Does not like you!
 
cegras
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:12 pm

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:09 am

 
Captain Ned
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 27059
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:24 am

tanker27 wrote:
And absolutely no overhead lighting. I use a free standing lamp with a 40w incandescent bulb about 6 feet away at a 45 degree angle to the monitor.

I use a 40w real bulb as well, in a fixture that's supposed to be one of those 180-degree shade desk lamps, but I have mine flipped over so that the light bounces off the ceiling and diffracts all over the room. Sort of the "bounce method" of flash photography, but with steady-state light.

I can't remember the last time I turned on the ceiling fixture light in any room other than the kitchen (over the butcher block prep table) or the laundry room.
Humans sleep soundly in their beds because rough cats stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51054
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:03 am

At home I use indirect lighting as well. Not incandescent though; it's a warm white 40W equivalent LED. It's in an overhead track light fixture, but I have it aimed away from the computer desk so all I get is indirect lighting bouncing off the walls.

At work we have obnoxious overhead lighting, but at least my back is to a wall and the nearest light fixture is more or less directly above, so I don't get any glare off the screen.

As far as glasses go, I have a pair with a prescription that is optimized for computer use; but then I don't really have a choice since my vision is so terrible. To get some idea of how bad my vision is without corrective lenses, imagine a camera with a very narrow depth of field, and a fixed focus of about 9 inches. Yes, it really is as bad as that sounds.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Captain Ned
Gold subscriber
Global Moderator
Posts: 27059
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Vermont, USA

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:03 am

just brew it! wrote:
As far as glasses go, I have a pair with a prescription that is optimized for computer use; but then I don't really have a choice since my vision is so terrible. To get some idea of how bad my vision is without corrective lenses, imagine a camera with a very narrow depth of field, and a fixed focus of about 9 inches. Yes, it really is as bad as that sounds.

I've been putting off my annual eye doc visit for some time now. I am near-sighted along with some astigmatism. When I started on multi-focal contacts they worked. The inevitable age-related degeneration has truly taken hold. When wearing my contacts or my ancient glasses, my short-range vision is merde. If I run with no correction, I'm good and clear about to 24" from my face. I know I need bifocals or cheaters but, and this is weird, that is to me the acceptance of "I'm old" and I rage against that dying of the light.

Younger gerbils take note. This WILL be in your future.
Humans sleep soundly in their beds because rough cats stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 51054
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:31 am

I tried bifocals for a while and hated them. I just wear the computer glasses most of the time, and switch to my distance pair when driving at night or in overcast weather.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
OsakaJ
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 773
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2002 9:39 pm
Location: South Carolina, USA

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:32 am

I spend a lot of time writing, and I used to get eyestrain and headaches if I worked for more than two or three hours without taking half-hour long breaks. I use an IPS panel at 60Hz. After trying a number fixes I discovered that working with black text on a white screen was the culprit. I now use Libre Office, which allows you to easily change the background color. A brownish gray for the background works well for me.
Defend your right to arm bears!
 
Dirge
Gerbil Jedi
Topic Author
Posts: 1620
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:08 am

Re: Can a 144Hz display help reduce eye strain?

Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:19 pm

cegras wrote:


Hey thanks for the link. I think I will get an led strip to put behind my monitor to improve the indirect lighting. This will only help at night but its a start.

OsakaJ I found the same thing and now use the Sylish plug in with Firefox to change my theme to a dark one. I settled on Midnight Surfing Alternative. It breaks a few sites so I have to toggle it off and on a little. I wish there were a better way to have a dark theme going on.
FDISK /MBR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests