Personal computing discussed

Moderators: Dposcorp, SpotTheCat

 
Heiwashin
Maximum Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:58 pm

I'm looking for something that'll let me take some good photos will I'm exploring on the road. I want good high quality lens options, wanting a good macro lens, and the ability to record decent video.

I prefer mirrorless because of the rough truck environment. Budget is flexible, but I want a good price per performance, so it might just be mid+ consumer level that I need.

I just figured I'd ask you guys before I dig into my own research.

Last thing I used was rebel xsi many years ago.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3016
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:15 pm

(Note: everything I list here is APS-C)

Sony A6300, and if you wanna get spendy you can up it to the A6500. Unfortunately Sony doesn't have THE BEST lens selection, but there is enough for what you want to do. Fuji X-T2 and X-T20 are another option.

Canon is going to have infinitely more lens selections, but their mirrorless cameras aren't the best. The EOS M6 isn't awful by any means.

Anyway, the reason I listed the A6300 first is because it's going to do what you want best IMO. Video is going to be best on the Sony's (out of what i've listed). Any of these choices would work though. I'm sure others will chime in as well.

(FWIW I'm a Canon and Sony owner)

Edit: There is also the Olympus OM-D E-M1 Mark II but I know jack nothing about it. Hopefully someone here might.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
TheEmrys
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2387
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 8:22 pm
Location: Northern Colorado
Contact:

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:00 pm

Right now, I would look at a couple of different options:

Sony a7II - full frame, but getting old. I would pass, personally, as I owned it last year. Very good body, but it is primed for a big price drop.
Fuji XT2/Xpro2 - Probably the best aps-c mirrorless body today. I have the XT2 and owned the Xpro2. Only reason I sold the Xpro2 was that it was a genuine pain to shoot in portrait orientation. 4k video for the XT2. Coming for the Xpro2.
XT20 - My choice. Same sensor as above, but with a bit fewer dials. Also does 4k.
XE3 - A very intriguing option. Strongly consider it. It has the rangefinder design like the Xpro2, but not the switching viewfinder.
Sony a6x00 - all of them are great. I owned the a6000, but returned it. Just couldn't justify two bodies.

The one thing that convinced me to move from Sony to Fuji was that Fuji's APS-C lenses are all full frame equivalents. 16mm = 24, 23mm = 35, 35mm = 50, 56mm = 85mm, etc.
Fuji XT2
16-55/28, 23/2, 56/1.2, 18-135, 100-400, 1.4x t/c.
Rokinon 12/2
Minolta MC 50/1.4, MD 135/2.8
 
ludi
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7271
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Sunny Colorado front range

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:57 pm

Satisfied Olympus OMD EM-10 owner here. Between Olympus and Panasonic there's a great selection of lenses; regrettably, for $$$ reasons I own none but the 12-50mm EZ which is a motorized zoom with a passable macro. An advantage of the available motorized lenses for the m4/3 format is smooth zooming during video.
Abacus Model 2.5 | Quad-Row FX with 256 Cherry Red Slider Beads | Applewood Frame | Water Cooling by Brita Filtration
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 17613
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:17 pm

DancinJack wrote:
Canon is going to have infinitely more lens selections, but their mirrorless cameras aren't the best. The EOS M6 isn't awful by any means.
The EOS M5 is actually Canon's best mirrorless camera. Don't ask about the product numbering scheme. :lol:
Review: https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Rev ... OS-M5.aspx
Prices:
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/ ... price.html
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/ ... price.html
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/ ... price.html
i7-6700K, NT06-Pro, GA-Z170N-Gaming5, 32 GiB, RX Vega56, SM951, 5TB HDD, Blu-ray, FTZ01, SX600-G, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
DragonDaddyBear
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 630
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:01 am

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:39 pm

I love my Sony A6000. I almost went Olympus and probably should have. Lenses are much more plentiful and cheaper, especially used, when i was in the market a few years ago.
 
Airmantharp
Gold subscriber
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6046
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:26 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
Canon is going to have infinitely more lens selections, but their mirrorless cameras aren't the best. The EOS M6 isn't awful by any means.
The EOS M5 is actually Canon's best mirrorless camera. Don't ask about the product numbering scheme. :lol:


Yup, a little goofy, but (mostly) sequential. The M5/M6 have the same sensor, but the M6 lacks the viewfinder.

And I'd actually point to an M5. Video focus is the very best (yes, versus Sony), image quality at the extremes is close, and has enough native lenses to get the job done while adapting Canon lenses natively for whatever else you need.

Note that there are no 'automatic' adaptations for Fuji, Panasonic/Olympus are limited, and Sony adaptations are decent but also limited (and even Sony A-mount lenses don't adapt natively to their mirrorless cameras).
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
Canon EOS-M|11-22 IS|22/2|EF-M 18-55
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3016
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:38 pm

Right, I didn't mean to say the M5 wasn't the top'o'the'Canon'line mirrorless. I just thought the M6 was a decent suggestion, and he could save a couple hundred bucks without giving much up.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
Heiwashin
Maximum Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:30 pm

So far it seems like there are a lot of options and based on the information here i could almost pick one at random and would probably be happy. The mirrorless viewfinder is interesting and something i didn't know existed.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
 
liquidsquid
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2544
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 10:49 am
Location: New York
Contact:

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:07 am

I find that as time goes on, I don't much like switching out lenses. If I were to be in the market right now, I would get this camera:

Sony DSC-RX10IV
https://www.dpreview.com/products/sony/ ... _dscrx10iv

Which has an amazing lens, and pretty amazing output for a 1-inch sensor.

Years ago I had the first and only DSC-R1, which is the grandfather of this line. I loved it until my son dropped it lens-down.

With that said, I own the Panasonic GH-2, and have no problems with it, apart from being old compared to the latest cameras.
 
cynan
Gold subscriber
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1067
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:30 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:24 am

My 2 cents for APSC-sized mirrorless.

If you want the best IQ and lens quality/selection at any sort of reasonable price point, the Fuji XT2 is hard to beat.

However, the Sony a6300/6500 is a great option if you are willing to be a bit more flexible on lenses by using adapters or 3rd party lenses. For example, I have an a6500. A bit disappointed with the Sony lens selection, I picked up a set of 4 Rokinon manual lenses that have been pretty great in the $300-$400ish range. The best of the bunch was this 50mm. Really good bang for the buck, fairly fast and tack sharp lens. Rokinon are also starting to make a few automatic focus lenses for the Sonys too (eg, this 50mm), but I haven't tried them.
 
Heiwashin
Maximum Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:52 am

I am leaning towards the xt2 or 20 but I need more time to look at lens options for it.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
 
TheEmrys
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2387
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 8:22 pm
Location: Northern Colorado
Contact:

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:00 pm

There are quite a few, and there aren't any lenses which aren't good. In fact, nobody makes made lenses. The only issue with mirrorless is manufacturers not making enough lenses (see mirrorless APS-C Sony and Canon). Fuji is really doing some innovative stuff. Their continual firmware updates are a revelation, coming from Sony. My XT2 is a far better performing camera than it was on release. I have no issues whatsoever with its AF in whatever mode, including video. Its really a complete package. If you enjoy primes, Fuji's are really hard to beat. They have such a lovely balance of color, they remind me of my older Minolta lenses, but with far better corrections for CA. So far, I have had a ton of Fuji lenses, so if there are any that strike your fancy, I can give you my opinion on them. Fuji lenses I have had:

Fuji 16/1.4, 23/2, 23/1.4, 56/1.2, 18-55/2.8-4*, 16-55/2.8, 18-135, 55-200, 100-400 and a Samyang/Rokinon 12/2.

*probably one of the two best kit lenses ever, with the Sony a-mount 16-50/2.8
Fuji XT2
16-55/28, 23/2, 56/1.2, 18-135, 100-400, 1.4x t/c.
Rokinon 12/2
Minolta MC 50/1.4, MD 135/2.8
 
Voldenuit
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:37 pm

Budget? How important is video? How important is 4K? Shooting in low light?
With the available information, here are my picks:

~$500 range, Panasonic GX85. Micro Four thirds, 16MP, 4K video, dual IS (body and/or lens).
Macro options: Oly 60/2.8 ($349), Panny 45/2.8 ($799), Panny 30/2.8 ($399) (Panny is sharper, Oly is cheaper)
For travel/street I am partial to the panny 15/1.7, Oly 17/1.8 or Panny 20/1.7.

~$1000 range, Fuji X-E3. APS-C, 24 MP, 4K video, no IS, weather-sealing.
Macro options: Fuji 60/2.4 ($649)
Travel lens: can't go wrong with fuji 23/2

All the systems also have a good range of midrange zooms, the fuji in particular has a very nice 18-55/2.8-4, which is a stop faster than your garden variety f/3.5-5.6 zoom.

If video is of paramount importance, Panasonic GH5 (~$2000) with Hybrid Log Gamma add-on firmware (~$99).

The sonys have nice sensors (the Alpha 7S II has superior IQ to the GH5 in low light video), but I continue to hear complaints from photographers, enthusiasts and vloggers that sony's over-reliance on menu controls instead of dedicated physical controls makes their cameras unwieldy to use in the field. I also don't like their lens selection as much as Panny/Oly or Fuji.
Wind, Sand and Stars.
 
Heiwashin
Maximum Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:06 pm

Probably the best thing i can do is describe the expected use. I've been thinking it might be fun to make some videos about trucker life, sort of an amateur documentary about some of it. I also intend to do some video and picture guides about how to build, troubleshoot, and fly drones, because the majority of people i see on forums are horrifyingly bad at it. The macro is mostly to be able to take close enough pictures of small components for that. Aside from that when i go to really fancy landscapes or see random cool things i'll be snapping pictures or videos. If i do the trucking video thing i'll pick up a dedicated sound set so i'm not worried about hooking a mic into the camera although if something was decent enough that i could use a built in or attached mic sometimes that would be nice.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
 
Voldenuit
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:22 pm

Heiwashin wrote:
Probably the best thing i can do is describe the expected use. I've been thinking it might be fun to make some videos about trucker life, sort of an amateur documentary about some of it. I also intend to do some video and picture guides about how to build, troubleshoot, and fly drones, because the majority of people i see on forums are horrifyingly bad at it. The macro is mostly to be able to take close enough pictures of small components for that. Aside from that when i go to really fancy landscapes or see random cool things i'll be snapping pictures or videos. If i do the trucking video thing i'll pick up a dedicated sound set so i'm not worried about hooking a mic into the camera although if something was decent enough that i could use a built in or attached mic sometimes that would be nice.


If you're going to be shooting a lot of video, and especially hand-held video of trucks and from trucks, maybe consider getting a 3-axis gimbal?

I got a cheap Zhiyun Smooth Q gimbal ($125) for my smartphone and it's great at stabilising shots and for panning, crane shots, low angles. It can also hold a gopro or similar action cam.

If you don't want to go all the way down to smartphones for image/video recording, larger gimbals are available for system cameras. The ones for mirrorless cameras can be had from around $500ish, the ones for full DSLRs are more expensive (bigger frames, bigger motors).

Also, a bunch of Panasonic cameras have "4K image" mode, that lets you shoot 4K video with an eye to extracting 8MP stills from. Not just their Micro Four Thirds system cameras, but some of their compact cameras as well.

If you're an apple smartphone user, apps like Filmic Pro let you shoot in log gamma exposure, which gives you a lot of latitude in color grading or adjusting exposure in post. This is something that was only previously available on expensive pro system cameras. The LG V30 smartphone will also have a native cine log capture mode.

Rødes are the external mic choice of many vlog enthusiasts, but you can find alternatives for cheaper.
Wind, Sand and Stars.
 
Flying Fox
Gerbil God
Posts: 25408
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 2:19 am
Contact:

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:22 pm

How good really are Fuji's lenses, compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.? Of course, used in an APS-C mirrorless context.

Doesn't look to me there are lots of 3rd party options for the Fuji system, hence my question.
The Model M is not for the faint of heart. You either like them or hate them.

Gerbils unite! Fold for UnitedGerbilNation, team 2630.
 
Voldenuit
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 11:10 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:19 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
How good really are Fuji's lenses, compared to Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc.? Of course, used in an APS-C mirrorless context.

Doesn't look to me there are lots of 3rd party options for the Fuji system, hence my question.


They are excellent. Speaking from eyeballs perspective. Super sharp, contrasty, color reproduction and bokeh.

From technical MTF perspective, they are also excellent performers optically.
https://www.ephotozine.com/article/top-10-best-fujifilm-lenses-reviewed-2017-26363.

The only one I can think of that didn't quite live up to expectations was the 35/1.4, which is still capable of producing some very eye-pleasing results. But really, you should be getting the 35/2 anyway unless you have a specific need for the 35/1.4
http://www.photozone.de/fuji_x/746-fuji35f14

Can't comment on AF performance, you're not getting a Fuji XF system for shooting sports, anyway.
Wind, Sand and Stars.
 
TheEmrys
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2387
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 8:22 pm
Location: Northern Colorado
Contact:

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:52 pm

Lens have been great. Equivalent to my old Sony Zeiss lenses, or even my old Contax Zeiss lenses. They don't have the same micro-contrast that the Zony's provided, but they have better color, for me. Bokeh tends to be a bit better, in most cases. I find that across the range, the Fuji lenses are better for CA correction. The top tier lenses for me have been the 16-55, 16/1.4, 23/1.4, 56/1.2, and 100-400. The 23/2 is okay, but not exceptional.

AF performance is truly excellent. There is a learning curve as the XT2 has several different AF-C modes. But once it is understood, its performs quite well. But for portrait work, Sony's Eye-AF really can't be beat. I really miss that. If I could get over the massive size, I would pick up an a99II and some of my favorite Minolta lenses and be totally content.

I will be using my gear this weekend at a non-profit event. I will see if I can't share some outtakes. They won't be processed much, but you can at least get a feel for them.
Fuji XT2
16-55/28, 23/2, 56/1.2, 18-135, 100-400, 1.4x t/c.
Rokinon 12/2
Minolta MC 50/1.4, MD 135/2.8
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3016
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Thu Sep 21, 2017 8:52 pm

Some samples from DPReview. Be sure to check out all the specs on the right for what you can expect.

https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleri ... es-gallery (X-T2)
https://www.dpreview.com/sample-galleri ... le-gallery (X-T20)
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
Airmantharp
Gold subscriber
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6046
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:32 pm

One of the biggest questions is this:

How important is video focus?

It's an important question to answer because every system other than Canon- Fuji, Panasonic, even Sony- have video focus systems that 'jump' while recording. This is because they rely on autofocus systems that incorporate elements that must rely on contrast detection and image processing, because they do not have phase detection across the whole sensor.

Canon's Dual-Pixel AutoFocus technology (DPAF), present on the EOS-M5 and M6, have this.

If it's not important, then Sony's autofocus in their A6x000 line comes in a close second, however you may wind up relying on large and expensive (but good!) Sony full-frame mirrorless lenses, or third-party autofocus lenses, manual lenses, and adapted lenses.

Beyond those, Fuji's X-system and the Panasonic/Olympus Micro Four Thirds system are both decent with respect to video autofocus, and are both very well supported with native, first-party lenses.

To summarize, if you want/need exceptional video autofocus, look at the Canon EOS-M5/M6; If your 'focus' will be more on still photography than video, I'd unreservedly second TheEmrys' recommendation for Fuji and the X-T2/X-T20 options you mentioned.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
Canon EOS-M|11-22 IS|22/2|EF-M 18-55
 
DancinJack
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3016
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:51 pm

I agree with everything Airman said above.

Don't worry about the macro situation. That's going to depend nearly entirely upon the lens you are using, which can be adapted with any one of these systems. Don't let this "feature" drive your purchase as they'll all be able to do it to your satisfaction. The M5 has a microphone port so you can just hook up whatever you purchase (and even mount it on the camera if you buy something compatible). The only spec of the M5 that I'd be a small bit weary of is that it's not weather sealed (so y'know, don't pour a glass of water on it), but it's not a HUGE deal.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
Heiwashin
Maximum Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:14 pm

So many choices, but i am leaning towards the m5 now thanks to the autofocus explanation.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
 
Airmantharp
Gold subscriber
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6046
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:26 pm

DancinJack wrote:
I agree with everything Airman said above.

Don't worry about the macro situation. That's going to depend nearly entirely upon the lens you are using, which can be adapted with any one of these systems. Don't let this "feature" drive your purchase as they'll all be able to do it to your satisfaction. The M5 has a microphone port so you can just hook up whatever you purchase (and even mount it on the camera if you buy something compatible). The only spec of the M5 that I'd be a small bit weary of is that it's not weather sealed (so y'know, don't pour a glass of water on it), but it's not a HUGE deal.


Seconded on the weather sealing, though this is typically only available on specific bodies and lenses to varying degrees outside Canon/Sony, where it really isn't available at all for APS-C mirrorless. To expound, you have to buy a specific Fuji/Panasonic/Olympus camera, and specific lenses, to have better weather resistance.

Next, I'll add that most of the systems have faster stills autofocus performance than the M5/M6; the Canon's are good, I own the M5, but the others are better to varying degrees (varying on body and lens combination). They're all better than a phone or point-and-shoot, of course (perhaps excluding the very good Sony RX100/RX10 camera series), but the better ones are actually reasonably useful for shooting fast action with appropriate lenses.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
Canon EOS-M|11-22 IS|22/2|EF-M 18-55
 
TheEmrys
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2387
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 8:22 pm
Location: Northern Colorado
Contact:

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:25 am

If 100% phase detect is important, I think the Sony a6300 and a6500 are the closest at 90-something%. IIRC, the m5 is at something like 60% coverage and I know my XT2 is something like that as well. That being said, the Fuji lineup got a slew of firmware updates earlier in the year that addressed some odd tracking af behavior. It just hasn't been an issue for me. Tracking AF is largely equivalent across brands for mirrorless bodies. However, that is really only true for the most recent releases. I wouldn't hesitate to use an XT2, a6500, GH5, or m5 for any video work.

Also, does 4k matter? Not everyone does it. I know Sony, Fuji, and Panny all seem to put it on everything, but not everyone does. Not sure if lens selection matters, but neither Sony or Canon have properly expanded the asp-c lens selection. With the Sony, you can get away with the FE lenses, but then are saddled with the prices, too. Canon has.... 6 lenses? I don't remember. I do know they have a great little prime in the 22mm. They really need more primes. Same for Sony. The prime selection was a big reason I went Fuji. It may not matter to you, though.

I do know that in terms of high iso and dynamic range, Sony and Fuji are the top of the aps-c heap. Particularly in video, that dynamic range could matter. I would look further into it to see if it matters for you.
Fuji XT2
16-55/28, 23/2, 56/1.2, 18-135, 100-400, 1.4x t/c.
Rokinon 12/2
Minolta MC 50/1.4, MD 135/2.8
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 17613
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:55 am

Canon has seven EF-M lens models (11-22, 15-45, 18-55, 18-150, 55-200, 22 and 28 macro) plus the EF-EOS M Adapter, which allows any of the more than 120,000,000 Canon EF, EF-S, TS-E and MP-E lenses plus millions of EF and EF-S compatible third party lenses sold in the past thirty years to function fully with an EOS M camera.

There are currently just under one hundred EF lens models in production. I would be extraordinarily impressed if you needed as many as eight of them. If Fuji or Sony offer the three or four lenses that you actually need, the lack of another ninety-some lenses is not a problem.
i7-6700K, NT06-Pro, GA-Z170N-Gaming5, 32 GiB, RX Vega56, SM951, 5TB HDD, Blu-ray, FTZ01, SX600-G, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
Airmantharp
Gold subscriber
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6046
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:41 pm

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:36 am

TheEmrys wrote:
If 100% phase detect is important, I think the Sony a6300 and a6500 are the closest at 90-something%. IIRC, the m5 is at something like 60% coverage and I know my XT2 is something like that as well.


The Canon is 100% coverage, technically- literally every single pixel is split in half, with each side read separately for phase calculation. Its limitations are the same for any camera in that phase detection, especially at the sensor plane, becomes unreliable toward the edges of the image circle.

Every other system either dedicates some pixels to phase detection or just relies on contrast detection or depth-from-defocus (DFD), or some combination, all of which can and do result in loss of tracking during video. Remember that we're talking about video focus here, and that this technology has formed one basis for Canon's entry into the video world with their Cinema EOS line. Automatic focus that's suitable for commercial video production, such has holding focus with fast lenses like an 85/1.2 shot wide open? No problem!

When talking about focus tracking for stills, all systems have improved to a degree, and none are as effective as the best DSLR autofocus systems used by Canon and Nikon (and Sony's SLT's). They all fall somewhere in between, and if you're not shooting fast action, they're all good enough.

That's what makes the EOS-M5/M6 a great middle ground. Class-leading video focus, great dedicated lenses, and seamless adaption to excellent yet inexpensive and light EF-S lenses as needed. Hell, Canon's DPAF system even plays nice with third-party Sigma and Tamron lenses, for stills and for video.

And the real weakness, next to Fuji/MFT, is the lack of dedicated (EF-M in this case) lenses. For a seasoned photographer that wants to shoot with fast and/or small primes, that can be a limitation, but for most it simply isn't.
Canon 6D|24-105/4L |70-300/4-5.6 IS USM|50/1.4 USM|50/2.5 CM|50/1.8 STM|85/1.8 USM|Samyang/Bower 14/2.8|24/2.8 IS|Sigma 150-600 | C
Canon EOS-M|11-22 IS|22/2|EF-M 18-55
 
Heiwashin
Maximum Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 4121
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:14 am

My confusion and indecision is quite high. It's very difficult for me to sort through this information and make a definitive choice since I don't have the experience to know which of these options would suit my use the best.

One important factor I guess, how much do adapters affect picture quality? Does it alter the focal length? Is there any negative other than added equipment to adapting lenses?
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 17613
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:15 am

The (surprisingly expensive at $200 new or $128 refurbished, IMO) Canon Mount Adapter EF EOS-M has no glass to affect image quality. It's an open tube with an EF-M bayonet mount and an EF/EF-S socket, some electronics for communication and a detachable tripod adapter. It extends the mirrorless camera body so that the APS-C size sensor is the same distance from the EF/EF-S mounting point as it is on a DSLR camera (like the EOS 80D) with an APS-C size sensor.
i7-6700K, NT06-Pro, GA-Z170N-Gaming5, 32 GiB, RX Vega56, SM951, 5TB HDD, Blu-ray, FTZ01, SX600-G, C32HG70, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
TheEmrys
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2387
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 8:22 pm
Location: Northern Colorado
Contact:

Re: Looking for Prosumer mirrorless

Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:36 am

Airmantharp wrote:
TheEmrys wrote:
If 100% phase detect is important, I think the Sony a6300 and a6500 are the closest at 90-something%. IIRC, the m5 is at something like 60% coverage and I know my XT2 is something like that as well.


The Canon is 100% coverage, technically- literally every single pixel is split in half, with each side read separately for phase calculation. Its limitations are the same for any camera in that phase detection, especially at the sensor plane, becomes unreliable toward the edges of the image circle.


I did remember it wrong. DPR has it at 64% coverage. But it isn't 100%.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-m5-review/4
Fuji XT2
16-55/28, 23/2, 56/1.2, 18-135, 100-400, 1.4x t/c.
Rokinon 12/2
Minolta MC 50/1.4, MD 135/2.8

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests