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whm1974 wrote:

One thing I've noticed about 4K TVs from reading the reviews is that seems it is easier to find TVs with fairly decent text display(for a TV) then it is for 1080p TVs.

1080p panels are probably becoming a race to the bottom at this point.

just brew it! wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

One thing I've noticed about 4K TVs from reading the reviews is that seems it is easier to find TVs with fairly decent text display(for a TV) then it is for 1080p TVs.

1080p panels are probably becoming a race to the bottom at this point.

I find it amazing that I can get a 40" to $43" 4K TV cheaper then what I paid for my 40" 1080p HiSense TV back in 2013. I think I paid ~$500 after tax at Walmart at the time.

OK after reading some more stuff about 4K displays, I'm diffidently going to get a 4K monitor or TV sometime in the future hopefully next year. 4K also appears to be one those things that you go real big with or stay home. So here are my thoughts:

Anything smaller then 32" is useless.
32" should be considered to be the minimum size for 4K.
40" to 43" is the really sweat spot for those who are heavy multi-taskers.

I've seen the future of computer displays, and it is 4K.

It is whatever people want it to be. I find good 1440p monitors and kit much more affordable, and if I'm being honest I wouldn't be anywhere near this broke if I'd stuck with 1080p heh.

If I ever need new kit again I'm definitely downgrading what I consider affordable. At this point, I think it'll be a long while before I need anything.

whm1974 wrote:

OK after reading some more stuff about 4K displays, I'm diffidently going to get...

I don't think that word means what you think. Autocorrect fail?

whm1974 wrote:

Anything smaller then 32" is useless.

I wouldn't say "useless", but unless your vision is very good you're probably going to need to enable scaling to avoid eyestrain, which partially defeats the purpose.

whm1974 wrote:

I've seen the future of computer displays, and it is 4K.

Yes, it's the future. But my long-standing habit of having multiple systems connected through a KVM is going to delay my transition to 4K, I'm afraid. 4K DisplayPort KVMs are still a little pricey, and the systems I'd want to connect don't all have DP capability. So for me that adds a lot of cost to the 4K transition beyond just the cost of the display.

LostCat wrote:

It is whatever people want it to be. I find good 1440p monitors and kit much more affordable, and if I'm being honest I wouldn't be anywhere near this broke if I'd stuck with 1080p heh.

If I ever need new kit again I'm definitely downgrading what I consider affordable. At this point, I think it'll be a long while before I need anything.

If I didn't take up learning computer programming I would still be agreeing with you. 1600p is still fine for most of what I'm doing, but I now have a need to have more applications displayed otherwise I wouldn't even be considering upgrading much sooner then I first planned on doing.

whm1974 wrote:

LostCat wrote:

It is whatever people want it to be. I find good 1440p monitors and kit much more affordable, and if I'm being honest I wouldn't be anywhere near this broke if I'd stuck with 1080p heh.

If I ever need new kit again I'm definitely downgrading what I consider affordable. At this point, I think it'll be a long while before I need anything.

If I didn't take up learning computer programming I would still be agreeing with you. 1600p is still fine for most of what I'm doing, but I now have a need to have more applications displayed otherwise I wouldn't even be considering upgrading much sooner then I first planned on doing.

I've been programming for 40+ years, and only the last ~2 years of that have been on a 4K display (and that only at work, where I didn't have to pay for it). It's a "nice to have", not a "need".

I learned to program using punch cards, Teletype hardcopy terminals, and low-resolution (64x16 and 80x24) text mode displays. Before there was an internet to answer all of my n00b questions. You had to buy technical books at an actual B&M store, or track down a person IRL who knew the answer.

I also had to walk 5 miles to school in the snow, uphill, both ways.

just brew it! wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

LostCat wrote:

It is whatever people want it to be. I find good 1440p monitors and kit much more affordable, and if I'm being honest I wouldn't be anywhere near this broke if I'd stuck with 1080p heh.

If I ever need new kit again I'm definitely downgrading what I consider affordable. At this point, I think it'll be a long while before I need anything.

If I didn't take up learning computer programming I would still be agreeing with you. 1600p is still fine for most of what I'm doing, but I now have a need to have more applications displayed otherwise I wouldn't even be considering upgrading much sooner then I first planned on doing.

I've been programming for 40+ years, and only the last ~2 years of that have been on a 4K display (and that only at work, where I didn't have to pay for it). It's a "nice to have", not a "need".

I learned to program using punch cards, Teletype hardcopy terminals, and low-resolution (64x16 and 80x24) text mode displays. Before there was an internet to answer all of my n00b questions. You had to buy technical books at an actual B&M store, or track down a person IRL who knew the answer.

I also had to walk 5 miles to school in the snow, uphill, both ways.

So to your old ears I'm pretty much whining then?

just brew it! wrote:

I've been programming for 40+ years, and only the last ~2 years of that have been on a 4K display (and that only at work, where I didn't have to pay for it). It's a "nice to have", not a "need".

My friend who coded his own game engine and does his own art and music and all that fun stuff is still on 1080p (though I think he does his art on a Surface Pro 4 now.)

If he ever finishes the game I'll be surprised, but I assume he's done a lot more in it than I've been made aware of.

LostCat wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

I've been programming for 40+ years, and only the last ~2 years of that have been on a 4K display (and that only at work, where I didn't have to pay for it). It's a "nice to have", not a "need".

My friend who coded his own game engine and does his own art and music and all that fun stuff is still on 1080p (though I think he does his art on a Surface Pro 4 now.)

If he ever finishes the game I'll be surprised, but I assume he's done a lot more in it than I've been made aware of.

He's doing that all by himself? That is a lot of work, what kind of game is it?

whm1974 wrote:

LostCat wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

I've been programming for 40+ years, and only the last ~2 years of that have been on a 4K display (and that only at work, where I didn't have to pay for it). It's a "nice to have", not a "need".

My friend who coded his own game engine and does his own art and music and all that fun stuff is still on 1080p (though I think he does his art on a Surface Pro 4 now.)

If he ever finishes the game I'll be surprised, but I assume he's done a lot more in it than I've been made aware of.

He's doing that all by himself? That is a lot of work, what kind of game is it?

The original Linux kernel was written by Linus, all by himself...

whm1974 wrote:

..40" to 43" is the really sweat spot for those who are heavy multi-taskers.

I setup my father's system with a 42" 4k Hisense I got around Christmas for $230. It works well for his financial charting program.

What I did to "augment" it was:

-use his older 27" in *portrait* mode beside it: specifically for browser work (and email). (..and once you've gone portrait mode for your browsing - you won't go back to landscape for that again, even with a larger 4k display.)


..and the only thing a bit different there is that it's two virtual machines: 1 windows machine for the charting software, and 1 linux machine for the browser - with the app: Synergy doing the kvm work between the two systems. Each machine also has its own video card with "passthrough".

For gaming, the 4K@100+Hz monitors are yet to be released (and will be way too expensive when they land), and GPU tech can't support that resolution at healthy framerate.

I've found 3440x1440 to be a good compromise for productivity and gaming (allows for 3 windows side-by-side, but 2560x1440@144+Hz with ULMB is still the gaming sweet spot.

CScottG wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

..40" to 43" is the really sweat spot for those who are heavy multi-taskers.

I setup my father's system with a 42" 4k Hisense I got around Christmas for $230. It works well for his financial charting program.

What I did to "augment" it was:

-use his older 27" in *portrait* mode beside it: specifically for browser work (and email). (..and once you've gone portrait mode for your browsing - you won't go back to landscape for that again, even with a larger 4k display.)


..and the only thing a bit different there is that it's two virtual machines: 1 windows machine for the charting software, and 1 linux machine for the browser - with the app: Synergy doing the kvm work between the two systems. Each machine also has its own video card with "passthrough".

That is not bad for a 42" 4K TV. what did you have to do to make it suitable for computer use? Any downsides?

whm1974 wrote:

He's doing that all by himself? That is a lot of work, what kind of game is it?

And going to college, at the moment. Which is probably awkward.

I guess I should mention he is a heavy multimonitor advocate, so he'd probably have better displays if he could afford em.

It's a JRPG styled game with some heavy influences from Ultima and other stuff. I'm sure I'm not the best person to descibe it without an actual playable version out yet.

http://www.shadowdawngenesis.com/

LostCat wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

He's doing that all by himself? That is a lot of work, what kind of game is it?

And going to college, at the moment. Which is probably awkward.

I guess I should mention he is a heavy multimonitor advocate, so he'd probably have better displays if he could afford em.

It's a JRPG styled game with some heavy influences from Ultima and other stuff. I'm sure I'm not the best person to descibe it without an actual playable version out yet.

http://www.shadowdawngenesis.com/

If he is going to college full time and working on a game at the same time, then that really is awkward to do both. If the game is any good I'll buy it if there is a Linux version.

whm1974 wrote:

That is not bad for a 42" 4K TV. what did you have to do to make it suitable for computer use? Any downsides?

I think it's on "gaming mode" (or something like that). A bit of playing with the color balance as well.

In windows itself there was a bit of fiddling with sizing - and even then the desktop icons look like crap, but the scaling on his charting program is rather good (..and the desktop size makes a HUGE difference - providing much more information with time (horizontal graphing), essentially as if spanning two 1080p monitors without the bezels).

It was a very good deal (..still is really), and surprisingly Hisense has a 4 year warranty.


The one thing I find annoying about it - is reaching around to the left to turn it on and off. (..my dad doesn't seem to mind though.) (..the computer is on all the time, but when not in use it's best to turn off the TV.)

Note: for his application input lag wasn't much of a concern. This meant that I was only looking for size & price, allowing for a less expensive purchase.

CScottG wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

That is not bad for a 42" 4K TV. what did you have to do to make it suitable for computer use? Any downsides?

I think it's on "gaming mode" (or something like that). A bit of playing with the color balance as well.

In windows itself there was a bit of fiddling with sizing - and even then the desktop icons look like crap, but the scaling on his charting program is rather good (..and the desktop size makes a HUGE difference - providing much more information with time (horizontal graphing), essentially as if spanning two 1080p monitors without the bezels).

It was a very good deal (..still is really), and surprisingly Hisense has a 4 year warranty.


The one thing I find annoying about it - is reaching around to the left to turn it on and off. (..my dad doesn't seem to mind though.) (..the computer is on all the time, but when not in use it's best to turn off the TV.)

Note: for his application input lag wasn't much of a concern. This meant that I was only looking for size & price, allowing for a less expensive purchase.

As of right now I'm considering the TCL 43" TV linked to earlier, but since I am a gamer I do need low input lag.

Found this long YouTube review(38 min) of the Vizio m43 c1 4K TV being used as a computer display.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuzPQ-V0AU
This guy is saying that yes, a 43" size display us quite usable for a desktop monitor as long it is 4K and nothing lower. The UHD resolution is what makes doing this possible.

whm1974 wrote:

Found this long YouTube review(38 min) of the Vizio m43 c1 4K TV being used as a computer display.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuzPQ-V0AU
This guy is saying that yes, a 43" size display us quite usable for a desktop monitor as long it is 4K and nothing lower. The UHD resolution is what makes doing this possible.

Yeah, a ~42" UHD display has essentially the same DPI as a ~21" 1080p (do the math!); you just get 4x the area, and 4x the pixels.

As I believe I've mentioned previously, I tried a 28" UHD at work for a while, but for me it was only usable if I enabled DPI scaling, which is somewhat clunky in KDE (need to restart the entire DE to switch the DPI, and some UI elements don't scale cleanly even after the restart).

just brew it! wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

Found this long YouTube review(38 min) of the Vizio m43 c1 4K TV being used as a computer display.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzuzPQ-V0AU
This guy is saying that yes, a 43" size display us quite usable for a desktop monitor as long it is 4K and nothing lower. The UHD resolution is what makes doing this possible.

Yeah, a ~42" UHD display has essentially the same DPI as a ~21" 1080p (do the math!); you just get 4x the area, and 4x the pixels.

As I believe I've mentioned previously, I tried a 28" UHD at work for a while, but for me it was only usable if I enabled DPI scaling, which is somewhat clunky in KDE (need to restart the entire DE to switch the DPI, and some UI elements don't scale cleanly even after the restart).

With 4K resolution it is very much go big or go home type of thing. Why did you even tried using a 28" monitor at 4K anyway? 43" looks to be the perfect size for 4K being used as a computer display.

whm1974 wrote:

With 4K resolution it is very much go big or go home type of thing. Why did you even tried using a 28" monitor at 4K anyway? 43" looks to be the perfect size for 4K being used as a computer display.

Remember, this was at work. 28" 4K was what they were giving people who wanted an external monitor for their MBP when I started there. I suppose there was a certain logic to it, as the DPI was similar to the internal display.

About a year ago they said, "Hey, want a 42 instead?" and I said "Sure!"

whm1974 wrote:

If he is going to college full time and working on a game at the same time, then that really is awkward to do both. If the game is any good I'll buy it if there is a Linux version.

He's also working as an art director on a VN for the anime club or sommat (this is at Berkeley) so yeah things are busy I'm sure. I have doubts that there'll be a Linux version, though I haven't asked (and won't. )

LostCat wrote:

whm1974 wrote:

If he is going to college full time and working on a game at the same time, then that really is awkward to do both. If the game is any good I'll buy it if there is a Linux version.

He's also working as an art director on a VN for the anime club or sommat (this is at Berkeley) so yeah things are busy I'm sure. I have doubts that there'll be a Linux version, though I haven't asked (and won't. )

Please ask, pretty please with a cherry on top.

Anyway I read a few pages of this thread and looks like the TCL 43S405 43-Inch 4K is the best TV to get for use as computer monitor. So I will be getting this one, but just don't know when.
https://hardforum.com/threads/current-4 ... 299/page-3

we'll see when I can find him. my main computer isn't even booting...guess it's annoyed that I'm moving to the Xbox =)

LostCat wrote:

we'll see when I can find him. my main computer isn't even booting...guess it's annoyed that I'm moving to the Xbox =)

Thanks.

Don't get your hopes up. If the game engine is currently targeted at another platform, it is potentially a rather large amount of work to make it work with Linux. If he's unfamiliar with Linux development tools he would need to learn those too. Unless cross-platform portability was designed in from the start, a Linux port is not gonna even be on his radar right now.

Sounds like he actually does plan to do it, though he'll have to work on shaders and stuff so I'm not sure how long it'll be after release.

Either way, I have no idea when he plans to release. I've been waiting for this game a really long time so :):|:]:wot

LostCat wrote:

Sounds like he actually does plan to do it, though he'll have to work on shaders and stuff so I'm not sure how long it'll be after release.

Either way, I have no idea when he plans to release. I've been waiting for this game a really long time so :):|:]:wot

Yeah I can't imagine doing something like this and going to college at same time, plus whatever else he has going on. By myself!!!

I single-handedly rewrote Digital Research's entire runtime library for their Pascal compiler when I was still in college. In 8080 assembly language. Original library was mostly written in Pascal; the performance and memory footprint of DR's implementation sucked a**. That was a big problem in those days, given the limitations of the hardware.

The guy who was trying to market it for me tried to sell the rights to DR, but they declined so it was only ever available as a 3rd party add-on. Then Turbo Pascal came out and made DR Pascal irrelevant.