Taddeusz wrote:The reason to go 120Hz is because film content is better displayed without judder. Because 120 is divided evenly by 24. This is noticed more often on slow pans in movies where the video will appear to skip a little bit as the camera is panning.
JdL wrote:You are assuming the 120Hz == frame interpolation, which isn't necessarily the case. You can have interpolation at 60Hz, creating the liquid-smooth look you mentioned. Telecine judder is not the film effect you are refering to. The judder is created because 60Hz is not perfectly divisible by 24Hz, ie. certain frames get displayed longer than others. The traditional film projector doesn't have this issue. 120Hz displays let you display 24/30/60 Hz content without judder, whether or not you choose to use frame interpolation.Taddeusz wrote:The reason to go 120Hz is because film content is better displayed without judder. Because 120 is divided evenly by 24. This is noticed more often on slow pans in movies where the video will appear to skip a little bit as the camera is panning.
I like the logic and this definitely makes sense, but the conclusion that film content is better displayed is false. Most people find that they prefer live-action film content to be slightly "juddery" to the liquid-smooth frame rate that most British television employs -- myself included in that crowd.
I have found that I like 120 Hz best for animated films and gaming, but 60 Hz is better for live-action film. Many screens give you the ability to toggle between 60 and 120, in which case you can experiment for yourself and choose your preferred method.
Flying Fox wrote:Noob question: does plasma TVs have this 60Hz vs 120Hz business? Or I don't need to care?
crazybus wrote:Flying Fox wrote:Noob question: does plasma TVs have this 60Hz vs 120Hz business? Or I don't need to care?
Any display operating at a fixed refresh rate is going to have issues somewhere along the line displaying content from various frame rate sources. I know some plasmas can run at 72Hz for film content, negating the judder issue, but I'm not sure how widespread that capability is.
Flying Fox wrote:So what refresh rate plasma TVs are doing these days?
crazybus wrote:Flying Fox wrote:So what refresh rate plasma TVs are doing these days?
It's difficult to cut through the marketing-speak but Pioneer advertises both Standard 3:2 Pulldown (60Hz) and "Advanced Cinema" 3:3 Pulldown (72Hz) with their Plasmas. That sounds to me like it can operate at a screen refresh of either 60 or 72 Hz. LG has a new "120Hz" plasma that is supposed to support 2:2 film mode for 48Hz. Panasonic advertises a similar film mode.
What's different about plasma displays vs. LCD is that each pixel gets pulsed hundreds of times per second (hence Panasonic's so called 480Hz sub-field drive) rather than being lit continuously, making refresh rate comparisons a little muddy. I guess this is why a plasma display could operate at 48Hz without noticeable flicker.
So it seems like most of the big players have features in place to eliminate telecine judder by varying refresh rate. AFAIK LG is the only one selling a 120Hz plasma. That's kind of a gimmicky feature on a plasma though since image persistence isn't an issue and they have the ability to run at 48/72Hz for film. The "motion smoothing" frame-interpolation algorithms some of these displays have don't need 120Hz either.
Flying Fox wrote:If you want to eliminate telecine judder, then yeah you do have to be careful, at least with what's out there now. All current Pioneers are good. Besides that you have to look at each model individually. Frame interpolation is gimmicky IMO so I couldn't care less about that.So in other words, I don't have to worry too much about this stuff once I pony up the extra cash for the plasmas, right?