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biffzinker
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World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:39 pm

TechPowerUp wrote:
Raijintek invented the world's first liquid cooler that works without a prime-mover for the coolant (i.e. no pump). Further, its radiator lacks fans (i.e. no power, no noise). This closed-loop cooler works in the same principle as a heat pipe, with a combination of convention and phase-change doing the heavy lifting of heat-transfer.

Would of been more impressive to me had Raijintek shown it mounted to a CPU.
Pictures at source link.
Source Link: http://www.techpowerup.com/223050/raiji ... uid-cooler
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:24 pm

Is this essentially a flexible heatpipe?
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:48 pm

DrCR wrote:
Is this essentially a flexible heatpipe?

Hybrid? Works like a heatpipe cooler but with all in one water-cooler parts.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:50 pm

It's basically the same thing Shuttle had years ago, but with flexible tubing. I'm not sure exactly how practical this would be though since heatpipes rely on a coating around the inside the tubing to promote wicking of the condensed vapor towards the radiator, and are usually sealed under a slight vacuum to drop the boiling point of the cooling liquid and make heat transfer more efficient. Flexible tubing could lead to gaps in the coating, and having the system open to the atmosphere must cause some complications.

It could be that it functions more like a thermosiphon than an actual heat pipe, which would mean that orientation would matter to the cooling performance since thermosiphons rely on gravity for proper circulation.
Last edited by Redocbew on Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:54 pm

What's "convention"? Did they mean convection?
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:58 pm

I can't imagine this being particularly efficient. For those wanting to build a completely silent PC it may have some value, but I would be very interested to see what the max TDP it can handle is.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:20 pm

Looking at the pictures again, I can see something else with a silver color inside both tubes between the radiator, and the block. The liquid in the tubes is definitely not water.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:42 pm

I don't see any "color" per se, just changes in tone based on whatever color/light source is behind a particular section of pipe.

Probably not water for this application, but likely some sort of alcohol:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_pipe
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:06 pm

Next time I need to cool down my glass ashtray when I accidentally pour boiling water from a kettle into it, I know who to turn to \o/

Wake me up when it can cool a desktop CPU at 50+ Watts.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:34 pm

The LCS is filled with a customized coolant, which has evaporation point of around 40°C to 50°C. Once the CPU or the GPU gets hot enough, the coolant turns into vapor and streams to the radiator through one of the tubes where it condenses back to liquid, whereas the cool coolant streams back to the water block. The theoretical limit of TDP that Raijintek’s prototype can handle is unclear, but different reports point to over 200 W, which is in line with traditional high-end and AIO liquid coolers.

Anandtech - Raijintek Shows Off Pumpless Liquid Cooling System
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:58 am

I know it's a different concept but all I could think of was this old behemoth
http://techreport.com/review/6860/zalma ... ter-cooler
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:14 pm

pikaporeon wrote:
I know it's a different concept but all I could think of was this old behemoth
http://techreport.com/review/6860/zalma ... ter-cooler

Passive though meaning no pump or fan. I'm still not sure Raijintek's passive water cooler can handle up to the rumored 200 watts of heat. Maybe it is possible?
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:02 pm

biffzinker wrote:
pikaporeon wrote:
I know it's a different concept but all I could think of was this old behemoth
http://techreport.com/review/6860/zalma ... ter-cooler

Passive though meaning no pump or fan. I'm still not sure Raijintek's passive water cooler can handle up to the rumored 200 watts of heat. Maybe it is possible?

I definitively wouldn't count on the Zalman Reserator to handle proper wattage, but there were much bigger DYI passive setups of the era that I'm sure could cut it. Mid-aughts was a fun DYI WCing era.
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:19 pm

I've never really understood the whole "completely passive" thing anyway. For an industrial machine that has to live in a harsh environment I get it, but for the average PC it's a solution looking for a problem.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Tue Jun 14, 2016 1:24 pm

I view computer noise like road noise -- the lower the better. Personally though, I run into coil noise issues well before reaching passive.

Redocbew wrote:
I've never really understood the whole "completely passive" thing anyway. For an industrial machine that has to live in a harsh environment I get it, but for the average PC it's a solution looking for a problem.
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:29 pm

biffzinker wrote:
pikaporeon wrote:
I know it's a different concept but all I could think of was this old behemoth
http://techreport.com/review/6860/zalma ... ter-cooler

Passive though meaning no pump or fan. I'm still not sure Raijintek's passive water cooler can handle up to the rumored 200 watts of heat. Maybe it is possible?


If the top of the case is fully vented and this is placed up there, there could be enough normal air convection, as long as the case also has good fresh air source to let it work.

Most of the "fanless" stuff has fine print of optimal placement and air flow via case fans.

It's easy to move a decent amount of air w/o producing enough noise pressure to notice without being a few inches away.
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:50 pm

Hoses & barbs aren't even the same size... relying on pure evaporation without any means of directing the gas into the correct plastic pipe? I would imagine the CPU would run very hot with such a setup, heatpipes at least provide direction for the gas to follow to the fins
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:59 pm

Kougar wrote:
Hoses & barbs aren't even the same size... relying on pure evaporation without any means of directing the gas into the correct plastic pipe? I would imagine the CPU would run very hot with such a setup, heatpipes at least provide direction for the gas to follow to the fins


This could be achieved with one way valves rather easily, but you need gravity on your side.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:08 pm

While not directly on the topic of Raijintek's passive liquid cooling technique, I've been really curious about another in-development product:

http://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-talk/consumer-electronics/gadgets/coolchips-kinetic-cooling-engine-combines-fan-and-heat-sink-into-awesome

... that CoolChip & Cooler Master have partnered on. While not totally silent, it makes big claims on greater power efficiency & cooling efficacy in a MUCH smaller footprint/volume.

Been following it for a few years though, & it seems almost to be made of the "vapor" that Raijintek is attempting to wick away.
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:25 am

blahsaysblah wrote:
biffzinker wrote:
pikaporeon wrote:
I know it's a different concept but all I could think of was this old behemoth
http://techreport.com/review/6860/zalma ... ter-cooler

Passive though meaning no pump or fan. I'm still not sure Raijintek's passive water cooler can handle up to the rumored 200 watts of heat. Maybe it is possible?


If the top of the case is fully vented and this is placed up there, there could be enough normal air convection, as long as the case also has good fresh air source to let it work.

Most of the "fanless" stuff has fine print of optimal placement and air flow via case fans.

It's easy to move a decent amount of air w/o producing enough noise pressure to notice without being a few inches away.


biffzinker is right. Fully passive, so also not cheating and relying on case ventilation, it is not possible.

A quick calculation with an online calculator, http://www.thermal-wizard.com/tmwiz/con ... p-isot.htm, and data from a table on, http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho ... Efficiency, (from Martin I think) gives a max of 85 watts of heat transfer.
I am gonna see with my own AIO cooler(CM Seidon 240V, which is very much recommended by me) what temps are gonna be with applied load. Stressed and monitored with AIDA64.
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 18, 2017 6:30 am

A chimney works because hot air is less dense than cold air. A tall, well-insulated chimney can provide quite a bit of natural draft. A six-foot length of plastic pipe attached to the top vent of your case would improve its passive cooling capability significantly.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:15 am

This is essentially a thermosyphon heatpipe (not to be confused with a thermosiphon) with separate lines for the liquid and vapor. The liquid returns to the evaporator thanks to gravity so there is no wick (the porous inner layer in conventional heatpipes) needed. This way it is easier to make the pipe flexible with the obvious drawback of having to place the radiator above the heat source. It could still be a good interim solution until loop heatpipes, like those recently demoed by Kalyos, become widespread.
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:20 am

One comment on the TPU site dug this up:
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/silver ... 27023.html

This one looks to have a smaller radiator?

It is not just the noise. Fans are mechanical parts and they eventually fail. It's a matter of when not if. The less moving parts the better for longevity too. Granted, if you move that AIO around with upgrades then you may create a leak for the tubes moving.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:51 am

http://noctua.at/en/products/fan/nf-a12 ... cification
MTBF > 150,000 hours = 17 years of 24/7 operation. If your gaming PC runs just 4 hours per day, that's more like 100 years. Buy new fans when you buy a new CPU or motherboard, and you're probably okay.
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:42 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
A chimney works because hot air is less dense than cold air. A tall, well-insulated chimney can provide quite a bit of natural draft. A six-foot length of plastic pipe attached to the top vent of your case would improve its passive cooling capability significantly.


A PC has a much lower temperature delta than a chimney which seems like it would reduce the potential for an upward draft?
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:14 pm

So after trying different settings al afternoon, while working in the garden and setting up the pool, I got to cheating and closed the case.
So now there are two intake fans(140@615 &120@864), the pump is running(CM Seidon 240V) with the rad mounted in the top of the case.
The fans from the rad are disconnected.
Running AIDA64 stability test, it is using 84 watts and highest core(#2) on 94 Celcius.
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Any higher in volts or frequency and it will throttle down.
Ran for 26 min.
After that i took the side panel of an it overheated, 1&2 @ 99C 2&3 @96.
Restarted Aida and it crashed.
So when passive 80 watts is too much.
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:53 am

Redocbew wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
A chimney works because hot air is less dense than cold air. A tall, well-insulated chimney can provide quite a bit of natural draft. A six-foot length of plastic pipe attached to the top vent of your case would improve its passive cooling capability significantly.
A PC has a much lower temperature delta than a chimney which seems like it would reduce the potential for an upward draft?
Air at 25 °C with a dewpoint of 7½ °C at one atmosphere of pressure has a density of 1.1793 kg/m3.
Air at 40 °C at the same conditions has a density of 1.1228 kg/m3.
Air at 60 °C at the same conditions has a density of 1.0554 kg/m3.
For a two meter tall chimney, the difference between 60 °C air and 25 °C air adds up to 2x(1.1793-1.0554) = 0.2478 kg/m² difference in pressure. A sheet of writing paper is about 3½ times as heavy as that. Your PC's case is only about half a meter tall and the heat generating components may be near the middle or top instead of being located at the bottom.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:22 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
A chimney works because hot air is less dense than cold air. A tall, well-insulated chimney can provide quite a bit of natural draft. A six-foot length of plastic pipe attached to the top vent of your case would improve its passive cooling capability significantly.
A PC has a much lower temperature delta than a chimney which seems like it would reduce the potential for an upward draft?
Air at 25 °C with a dewpoint of 7½ °C at one atmosphere of pressure has a density of 1.1793 kg/m3.
Air at 40 °C at the same conditions has a density of 1.1228 kg/m3.
Air at 60 °C at the same conditions has a density of 1.0554 kg/m3.
For a two meter tall chimney, the difference between 60 °C air and 25 °C air adds up to 2x(1.1793-1.0554) = 0.2478 kg/m² difference in pressure. A sheet of writing paper is about 3½ times as heavy as that. Your PC's case is only about half a meter tall and the heat generating components may be near the middle or top instead of being located at the bottom.



???HuH???

So?
 
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:34 pm

D@ Br@b($)! wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
<PC not hot enough to be gud chimney, yes?>
<NUMBARS>
<PC's aren't 2m tall>
<The hot bit isn't even in the right place>


???HuH???

So?

So,
A half-meter tall PC case is going to be a particularly bad chimney.
Not only that, but it's not even a half-meter tall chimney because the only part of it acting as a chimney is the 25cm between the GPU and the top.

D@ Br@b($)! wrote:
After that i took the side panel of an it overheated

Yep. because with the side panels on it wasn't passive at all, the sealed case was merely acting as a (large) duct to move air from the intake fans through the radiator. AIO radiators are the wrong shape to be passively cooled. The fins need to be spaced wider and the shape should be narrow and deep rather than wide and thin.
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Re: World's First Passive Liquid Cooler

Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:01 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
So:

Your half-meter tall PC case is going to be a particularly useless chimney.
Not only that, but it's not even a half-meter tall chimney because the only part of it acting as a chimney is the 25cm between the GPU and the top.


Agree. But I thought JustAnEngineer was defending the chimney and was gonna build a two meter extension on his PC case and share the results. :D Or give us some calculated airspeed or volume flow rate so we could compare it to a fan.

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