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srjtv
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4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:41 am

Hello all!

Recently acquired a 4790K.  MB is a Asrock Z97 Fatal1ty.  The temperatures are disgusting.

I ordered a Corsair H60, and sadly, while attaching it, one of the posts broke off on a screw, so will be returning that.  In the meantime, using the stock cooler.  

So here's the issue - with everything on the board turned to Auto (except for turbo on all cores, that's off) - when the processor is on load (running Handbrake for instance), temps are 85 Celsius.  If I try to stress it out with Prime 95 (the maximum heat test) or do an export in Adobe Premiere Pro, temps jump up to 100.  There is no OCing at all (even have XMP disabled).  CPU-Z reports core voltage of 1.197 at full load and going up to x42 on Core 0 on full load (and FSB at 99.94, which is odd).  I went into the BIOS and tried manually setting the voltage to 1.125 - and if I put the processor at load under Handbrake Windows restarts with the Windows 10 version of BSOD.

Questions to answer before they are asked: have flashed to BIOS to newest, have 4x4 Gskill DDR3-1600 (all of which pass Memtest with flying colors), 770 GTX FTW card, 1 SSD, 4x2TB HDD's, Seasonic 650 Watt full modular about three years old. Case is Corsair 400R.  Two fans intake on HDD's, one fan on side intake, one fan rear intake, two on top exhaust.  This was the cooling setup with my 3570k and there were no cooling issues there.  

I know some 4790k's have temp issues, but the fact that it won't run at the manually set voltage is weird.  Thoughts?  Am I looking at having to de-lid or something drastic?  I can't RMA the processor.
 
Vhalidictes
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:09 pm

Sounds to me like bad odds in the processor lottery. An iffy CPU will take more power (which is sounds like your motherboard is doing when set to "auto"), and extra heat is a side effect. Keep in mind that the stock cooler is basically terrible, so even something minor can overload its limited capabilities.

Questions that you didn't pre-answer: 
What's the room temperature?
What's the case/motherboard temperature?
Since "everything" in the BIOS is set to Auto, is the motherboard automagically trying to OC? Maybe it's raising the BCLK by a little?
(Assuming that all case fans are working fine) What speeds are you seeing for the intake fans?

EDIT: Just checked in case of faulty memory, and I'm correct - the H60 isn't a particularly high-end water cooler, and in some cases a good air cooler is higher-performing. Even once you get it back, you still might have temps higher than you'd like - it's probably best to figure out what's going on and fix it regardless of the cooler situation.
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:45 pm

It doesn't seem out of the ordinary that a full AVX load would cause it to throttle with the stock cooler. AVX will also cause the voltage to come up a bit higher (or was that later chips?).

Many people had problems with throttling even when just playing games with the 4790K and the crappy stock cooler (is it throttling up under load btw?). Get the H60 back and test again, IMO. :)
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:50 pm

I'd downclock it for the moment until you get the new cooler in. 500 MHZ would probably be all it takes, given how heat works. Maybe 1 GHZ at most. You'd still have an amazing CPU until you get the new cooler in.
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:17 pm

It's either:

Bad hand in the silicon lottery (possible)
Bad TIM application that can be solved with a de-lid (likely)
Asrock Z97 Fatal1ty AUTO settings are massively overvolting the CPU and readouts being inaccurate (looks like you've tested this already)
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srjtv
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:23 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:

Questions that you didn't pre-answer: 
What's the room temperature?
What's the case/motherboard temperature?
Since "everything" in the BIOS is set to Auto, is the motherboard automagically trying to OC? Maybe it's raising the BCLK by a little?
(Assuming that all case fans are working fine) What speeds are you seeing for the intake fans?

EDIT: Just checked in case of faulty memory, and I'm correct - the H60 isn't a particularly high-end water cooler, and in some cases a good air cooler is higher-performing. Even once you get it back, you still might have temps higher than you'd like - it's probably best to figure out what's going on and fix it regardless of the cooler situation.


Room temp between 65-70 F
Case & MB temp - 28-32 C (according to Asrock UFEI)
When setting the autos, I turned boosts & OCing off.
Case fans - three Corsairs that came with case attached to MB headers (3pin). Spin 1100ish. Three Antec Tri-cools set to Medium, hooked to PSU. Turning up makes no difference. (All three are intake)

H60 isn't terribly high end, but it's what I am stuck with, for a variety of circumstances.
 
srjtv
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:25 pm

Waco wrote:
It doesn't seem out of the ordinary that a full AVX load would cause it to throttle with the stock cooler. AVX will also cause the voltage to come up a bit higher (or was that later chips?).

Many people had problems with throttling even when just playing games with the 4790K and the crappy stock cooler (is it throttling up under load btw?). Get the H60 back and test again, IMO. :)


What I find odd is that it will not run at 1.125V, which many reviews have said is sufficient for stock running. Maybe I did indeed lose the silicon lottery.
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:37 pm

srjtv wrote:
What I find odd is that it will not run at 1.125V, which many reviews have said is sufficient for stock running. Maybe I did indeed lose the silicon lottery.

On the flipside, it may just be a hot and leaky chip, which would make it a great overclocker.
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:09 am

Since you are using the stock cooler have you taken it off and tried remounting it? Sounds like a pin may not have locked completely through the mainboard... if you can check the back of the motherboard to verify all four pins are completely through and locked then it's mounted flush.
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:36 pm

Thank you all for all the suggestions!  Figured I would give an update on results.  Still waiting on the RMA of the H60 cooler to be finished.

1) In UFEI, set pretty much everything manually.  Multiplier to 35x, BClock to 100Mhz, Vcore to 1.15, manually turned on all sleep states, turned on XMP and then loosened timings to 11-11-11-28, 1.5 voltage on RAM, turned off Turbo & ability to add voltage to CPU when under stress - more manual settings than I've ever dealt with (previously had Gigabyte boards, so Asrock's is a new system for me).
2) In Windows, stress tested with Intel Extreme Tuning - passed, never going above 65C.
3) Running Handbrake for 1 hour, peaked out at 75C, doing an x265 encode - at the downgraded settings, have lost about 7fps in the encode.  Not the end of the world.  Overall, this is about 13C cooler than previous peak temps under similar tasks.

When Handbrake is finished, will attempted a Premiere Pro export to see how the temps are there since that caused 95-100C previously and throttling.  

Thank you so far.  I'll let you know where I end up with the H60 arrives.  Thinking I'll set that up as an intake on the top of the case instead of the rear.  
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:55 pm

FWIW even an elevated room temp is enough to take a stock i5-4590 to throttle under sustained Prime95 with the Intel stock cooler - and that thing runs at 1.04V in my case. The stock cooler isn't something I'd rely on even on a "stock AF" configuration. The H60 would do significantly better. I guess you'll have to wing it a bit for a while.

As for case airflow, I think I'd probably opt for at least two functional exhausts before adding anything else, if you ask me, if your computer has a high-end, non-reference-style cooler video card. One at the rear and one at the top. The warm air probably won't go anywhere with less than that, in my personal experience, making your amount of intakes rather irrelevant. Whichever top vent that is right above the RAM slots would be best, in my opinion (though others are welcome to share their own advice)
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:21 pm

There's about a million and one posts/articles online saying the stock 4790k cooler is worthless... Even a H60 is gonna get warm... At full load I hit 60C with a H100i (with a slight overclock).
 
srjtv
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:03 am

Noinoi wrote:
FWIW even an elevated room temp is enough to take a stock i5-4590 to throttle under sustained Prime95 with the Intel stock cooler - and that thing runs at 1.04V in my case. The stock cooler isn't something I'd rely on even on a "stock AF" configuration. The H60 would do significantly better. I guess you'll have to wing it a bit for a while.

As for case airflow, I think I'd probably opt for at least two functional exhausts before adding anything else, if you ask me, if your computer has a high-end, non-reference-style cooler video card. One at the rear and one at the top. The warm air probably won't go anywhere with less than that, in my personal experience, making your amount of intakes rather irrelevant. Whichever top vent that is right above the RAM slots would be best, in my opinion (though others are welcome to share their own advice)

So I did some rejiggering of the fans (I do have an EVGA FTW 770, so that's non-reference). The Antec Tri-Cools are now on the top and the rear, with - as you suggested - the one above the RAM as an exhaust, rear as an exhaust, one above CPU as intake, all set to medium.  (moved the fans that came with the case to HDD cooling duties).  Sad to say, maybe a 1C temperature difference.  Setting fans to High gives me 3-6C on the temps, but then I have a wind tunnel in my living room.  Will have to look at some good 140mm fans in the future as an upgrade.
As for using Premiere Pro - forget it.  Exporting a timeline (which does not use CUDA, only CPU), throttle city.  H60 should be arriving in the city of industry on the 16th, and hopefully the RMA will be speedy.  When it returns, I think I will set it up as an intake on the top of the case instead of the rear.  Should the H60 come back and still not get the job done, will switch to a Noctua tower cooler.
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:35 pm

srjtv wrote:
Noinoi wrote:
FWIW even an elevated room temp is enough to take a stock i5-4590 to throttle under sustained Prime95 with the Intel stock cooler - and that thing runs at 1.04V in my case. The stock cooler isn't something I'd rely on even on a "stock AF" configuration. The H60 would do significantly better. I guess you'll have to wing it a bit for a while.

As for case airflow, I think I'd probably opt for at least two functional exhausts before adding anything else, if you ask me, if your computer has a high-end, non-reference-style cooler video card. One at the rear and one at the top. The warm air probably won't go anywhere with less than that, in my personal experience, making your amount of intakes rather irrelevant. Whichever top vent that is right above the RAM slots would be best, in my opinion (though others are welcome to share their own advice)

So I did some rejiggering of the fans (I do have an EVGA FTW 770, so that's non-reference). The Antec Tri-Cools are now on the top and the rear, with - as you suggested - the one above the RAM as an exhaust, rear as an exhaust, one above CPU as intake, all set to medium.  (moved the fans that came with the case to HDD cooling duties).  Sad to say, maybe a 1C temperature difference.  Setting fans to High gives me 3-6C on the temps, but then I have a wind tunnel in my living room.  Will have to look at some good 140mm fans in the future as an upgrade.
As for using Premiere Pro - forget it.  Exporting a timeline (which does not use CUDA, only CPU), throttle city.  H60 should be arriving in the city of industry on the 16th, and hopefully the RMA will be speedy.  When it returns, I think I will set it up as an intake on the top of the case instead of the rear.  Should the H60 come back and still not get the job done, will switch to a Noctua tower cooler.

Uh... did you put two fans with opposing directions at the top mounts? Not a good idea, I think. Try to make sure that each group is of the same direction. There's also no need to seal any unused mounting points, too, in my experience, so go experiment ;)
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:25 pm

Little left field-What is the quality of your mains power-Is there anything nearby that could be causing large spikes?
Do you live in or near a industrial area?
Reason I ask is you seem to be having a bit of bad luck with computers-remembering your last thread-
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=118929&p=1333020#p1333020
 
srjtv
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:40 am

HERETIC wrote:
Little left field-What is the quality of your mains power-Is there anything nearby that could be causing large spikes?
Do you live in or near a industrial area?
Reason I ask is you seem to be having a bit of bad luck with computers-remembering your last thread-
viewtopic.php?f=36&t=118929&p=1333020#p1333020


Well, bad luck has been my middle name for the past year (won't get into the personal details). I live in an apartment building with four apartments (so it's really a huge house that got converted). The apartment has 6 20 amp breakers, two of which are in the living room - computer is on its own (just the way things worked out). Only time I've ever had a power problem is if I hooked up my old (an old friends old) vacuum cleaner to the same circuit as TV, lights, etc, and that would pop the circuit. No power hogs in the building or local factories.

. I won't lie, based on the problems I had with my z77 board, I'm starting to wonder about the PSU - which would suck because I was so sure it was the MB. Ah well, was due for an upgrade anyway, and I do what I can on my budget.. I guess the H60 is going to be the real tale-teller now. If that fails, trade for Noctua. If that fails, new PSU.
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:53 pm

So, final update - H60 finally arrived back, had to wait a day or the to install (damn you work!). With the downclock and undervolting, frosty cool even at load (less than 50C). Put it at stock (40x, 1.19V), temps reasonable (60ish, which is 20 better than the stock cooler at the undervolt). Attempts at OC - BSOD on 45 and 43 at 1.4V and 1.3V (all using Intel Extreme stress test), several other tests, finally found stability at 43 at 1.2V with .2 voltage offset, temps at 80C at load for 1 hour. So it would seem I did indeed lose the silicon lottery. Ah well. Still much smoother than the 3570K.
 
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Re: 4790k Insane Temps, Voltage Problems

Tue Feb 28, 2017 10:35 am

My friend ended up having to buy an after market cooler for his 4790K. His computer kept freezing and locking up. Between myself and his brother in law we diagnosed it at as temperature related. He got a Cooler Master Hyper 212 cooler and has not had problems since.

I have a 4770K and my motherboard always wanted to give it a ton of voltage. I've had a Cooler Master Hyper 212 cooler on my since I bought it, but it will still get warm ~75 to 80C. I ended up turning off the power management in the bios and locking my chip at 4.0ghz (yes an overclock), but I am able to run it stable at lower voltages than my motherboard would feed the chip when it was auto-regulating. It never goes about 60-65C now.

I think its a combination of chip set(87 and 97) plus the built in TIM the Haswell cpus have.
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