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MadManOriginal
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Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sat Aug 29, 2015 9:52 pm

So, Samsung's SSD reputation took a dive with the bugs in the 840 series, both TLC and MLC variants. I imagine that people scrutinized the 850 series very closely because of this. I know it took a while to come to light with the 840s, but has there been any problem found with the 850s (specifically the EVO since it's priced more reasonably)? Have they been thoroughly tested and determined to be fine? (I know that's impossible to know 100%, SSD issues tend to take a while to crop up, so just 'as far as we know'.)
 
whm1974
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:58 pm

Like you said the 850 hasn't been out all that long, so it's too early to tell yet. Now if you want a problem free SSD get the Crucial M500. I have two of them in my system I built a little over a couple of years ago and never had any problem with them.
 
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:33 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Now if you want a problem free SSD get the Crucial M500.

Now if you want a problem free SSD get the Crucial M500 M550. FTFY.

The M500s would freeze my systems (Windows and Linux) for 1/4 to 1/2 sec every once in a while. No such issues with M550s. I have several M4's, M500s and M550s, all since they first came out, and other than occasionally updating their firmware, all -- knock wood -- have been trouble free with heavy use.
 
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:04 am

I too am interested in this topic. There's a good deal on the 500GB 850 EVO right now and was considering getting one. Not sure why it took so long for people to find the 840 TLC bug considering they were THE most popular SSD on the market....
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:25 am

Even if the 850 EVO seems to be working for people, buying more of their product now would essentially be rewarding their recent bad behavior. I'm boycotting Samsung for an indefinite period of time.
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whm1974
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:08 am

The M500s would freeze my systems (Windows and Linux) for 1/4 to 1/2 sec every once in a while. No such issues with M550s. I have several M4's, M500s and M550s, all since they first came out, and other than occasionally updating their firmware, all -- knock wood -- have been trouble free with heavy use.


I haven't had any problems with the M500 causing my system to freeze. I brought two M500s due to being the largest SDD at the time and never had any problems with Crucial memory.

Even if the 850 EVO seems to be working for people, buying more of their product now would essentially be rewarding their recent bad behavior. I'm boycotting Samsung for an indefinite period of time.


Even if Samsung didn't have bad behavior, keep in mind that even the best companies will produce lemons every so often.
 
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:26 am

just brew it! wrote:
Even if the 850 EVO seems to be working for people, buying more of their product now would essentially be rewarding their recent bad behavior. I'm boycotting Samsung for an indefinite period of time.

Not really defending Samsung or any company for that matter, but if you were to punish companies for bad behavior, there are way more where that came from for you to boycott.
All I can say is I have been using an 850 Evo 120GB as a system drive for a few months now and I run the performance test in Magician every now and then, nothing to report as of now. Fingers crossed.
 
meerkt
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:58 am

USAFTW wrote:
Not really defending Samsung or any company for that matter, but if you were to punish companies for bad behavior, there are way more where that came from for you to boycott.
Only a few months ago I lifted the boycott on IBM HDDs, due to the mishandling of the Deathstar series (by buying a Toshiba HDD, that uses tech bought from WD after they bought some of HGST who bought IBM's HDD unit). :)
 
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:04 pm

meerkt wrote:
USAFTW wrote:
Not really defending Samsung or any company for that matter, but if you were to punish companies for bad behavior, there are way more where that came from for you to boycott.

Only a few months ago I lifted the boycott on IBM HDDs, due to the mishandling of the Deathstar series (by buying a Toshiba HDD, that uses tech bought from WD after they bought some of HGST who bought IBM's HDD unit). :)

Wow, that's a LONG boycott! And yes, I stopped buying them for a few years too; but their track record since then has been generally above average, so they moved off of my "avoid" list and onto my "preferred" list around 2006 or so.

I avoided Seagate for a couple of years after the 7200.11 fiasco. I still won't touch them unless they are massively discounted relative to the equivalent WD/Toshiba drives.

Thermaltake is permanently on my "avoid" list for PSUs, HSFs, and case fans; been burned too many times by shoddy products from them. I (reluctantly) bought one of their external drive docks recently, because it was the only one that came in a dual-slot model, had eSATA support, and was in stock; it works, but feels a little flimsy and hot-swapping one drive glitches the other drive if both slots are being used (might be an OS problem dealing with the port multiplier, so possibly not Thermaltake's fault).

I will never buy another LiteOn product. They were one of the first (and worst) in the "race to the bottom" on CD/DVD drive reliability. They got recommended all over the place back in the day because they were fast, quiet, and cheap; but every one of them I've owned has died within a year or two.

It is going to be a while before I trust Samsung enough to buy another one of their products.
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localhostrulez
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:19 pm

Interesting that you say that about LiteOn - I've owned a few of their drives, and never had a problem (although I don't use DVDs much). I do recall seeing quite a few HP 8200's (that particular model) with failing DVD drives (usually the rubber band that pulls the tray out falls out of place). Not sure who the actual OEM of that part is.

But yes, I'm staying away from Samsung SSDs only on principle. Faulty product made it out the door but they remedied it? OK. Faulty product made it out the door and they tried their damndest to hide the issue and shift the blame? OK, I'm sure their competitors will appreciate the extra business.

Same with Lenovo. First driver issues (that are bad on consumer grade gear, and absolutely unacceptable on biz grade), then the Superfish thing, then the BIOS-based malware. They already lost my work's business. We bought some Lenovos and got burned with this crap, we buy tons of HPs and they've mostly been fine. Go figure.
 
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:37 pm

localhostrulez wrote:
Interesting that you say that about LiteOn - I've owned a few of their drives, and never had a problem (although I don't use DVDs much). I do recall seeing quite a few HP 8200's (that particular model) with failing DVD drives (usually the rubber band that pulls the tray out falls out of place). Not sure who the actual OEM of that part is.

I probably managed to buy a bunch of them just as they bottomed out quality-wise. IIRC it was around the tail end of the PATA era. The failures were varied... everything from silently corrupting data as discs were burned, to silently corrupting data as it w as read, to outright refusal to read discs that read fine in other drives, to refusing to eject discs.

The last failure mode was particularly interesting; some of their drives had a problem with the adhesive that held the rubber pad to the spindle. The adhesive would soften as the drive heated up under use, ooze out around the edges, and get onto the disc. When the drive cooled down, the disc ended up GLUED to the spindle. The paperclip-in-the-eject hole method would not work (adhesive was too strong); you had to either access the disc continuously for a while to keep it spinning and get get the drive to heat up again (softening the adhesive), or disassemble the drive and pry the disc out. Then you had to clean the disc with isopropyl to get all of the adhesive off. WTF, LiteOn?!??
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hkuspc40
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:42 pm

Does this subject really matter? I'm using an 850 pro and it has a 10 year warranty. If you're worried about data loss you should be backing it up anyways or storing it on another drive. Also, I think Samsung is one of the only companies which builds all the components in house. Which I'm a huge fan of.
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:34 pm

hkuspc40 wrote:
Does this subject really matter? I'm using an 850 pro and it has a 10 year warranty. If you're worried about data loss you should be backing it up anyways or storing it on another drive. Also, I think Samsung is one of the only companies which builds all the components in house. Which I'm a huge fan of.

How meaningful is a 10 year warranty if there turns out to be a long-term issue along the lines of what the 840 EVO experienced? The half-fix in the form of a firmware patch doesn't cut it.
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 5:03 pm

hkuspc40 wrote:
Does this subject really matter? I'm using an 850 pro and it has a 10 year warranty. If you're worried about data loss you should be backing it up anyways or storing it on another drive. Also, I think Samsung is one of the only companies which builds all the components in house. Which I'm a huge fan of.

It matters only if you don't want to deal with liars taking your money for substandard goods with no intention of cleaning up their own mess.

Obviously it doesn't really matter, if you value your own time at zero, and don't mind being lied to, and don't mind not getting what you pay for.

Components being built in-house has 2 potential benefits -- increased reliability due to better understanding of limits and tolerances, and reduced costs passed on as lower prices to consumers -- neither of which exists for Samsung SSDs.

I'm a huge fan of quality assurance and quality control, which is not the Samsung way.
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:13 pm

I use a 128GB 850 Pro for a cache disk and I haven't lost feeling in any of my extremities yet (approx 4TB of writes so far).

The only two times I've ever heard of trouble were 1) the now-retracted firmware update that bricked some drives (possibly not even caused by the update itself, but the update mechanism) and 2) the TRIM issue discovered by Algolia which turned out to not even be an issue with the drives, but the Linux kernel. I of course understand that Samsung has made some moves with the 840 series that has soured some people on it, I think they are actually playing it conservatively with the 850 as a result (they will probably never re-issue the previous firmware update, unless they bundle it with a more significant update later)
 
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:03 am

hkuspc40 wrote:
Does this subject really matter? I'm using an 850 pro and it has a 10 year warranty. If you're worried about data loss you should be backing it up anyways or storing it on another drive. Also, I think Samsung is one of the only companies which builds all the components in house. Which I'm a huge fan of.


Yeah, it matters. If you had been unfortunate enough to install this firmware update that bricked some 850 Pro drives http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/after- ... s-too.html then sure you get a free RMA because of your 10 year warranty. But you lose your data, you have to pay shipping costs to send the SSD in, and then wait for the replacement. :P
 
MarkG509
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:13 am

Kougar wrote:
then sure you get a free RMA because of your 10 year warranty. But you lose your data, you have to pay shipping costs to send the SSD in, and then wait for the replacement. :P
...and who ever buys your Refurbished 850 Pro gets your data.
 
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:51 am

just brew it! wrote:
Even if the 850 EVO seems to be working for people, buying more of their product now would essentially be rewarding their recent bad behavior. I'm boycotting Samsung for an indefinite period of time.


This. Given the limitations of the SATA interface there's practically no perceptible difference between an 850 Pro and a cheap-ass Arc 100 or BX100....
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:08 pm

I passed on the 850 EVO (actually missed the deadline for the sale) and got myself a 500GB Crucial BX100 for $140. Got it all set up this weekend. Happy with my purchase. It replaced my 120GB Vertex 3 Max IOPS cost me $180 when I bought it... :o
Now I can play all these new "data hog" games with 40+GB installs.
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:21 pm

Its been 4 months i am using 850 EVO 120GB drive and i am keeping close eyes on its performance degradation. So far nothing, lets hope it stays that way.
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Re: Verdict on Samsung V-NAND (850 series) SSDs

Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:55 pm

I'm not touching anything TLC, much less from Samsung.

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