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ludi
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:06 pm

the wrote:
ludi wrote:
Looks like Newegg calls out MLC on some of their drives, such as this Mushkin 64GB. It costs about twice as much as the SanDisk model we are discussing and includes all the metal a person could want.


Wha? Does it come preloaded with good music and encased in U238?

That reaction is why the market is flooded with cheap products that offer lousy performance. The device OP bought is $20 and he clearly dislikes it. The Mushkin module is $40. Is that really a bank-breaker if you want to guarantee getting an MLC device?
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:30 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Waco wrote:
They're still one of the biggest manufacturers, and WD technically owns them. I have lots of their stuff.

This just happens to be crappy old product, which is why it's cheap.

So which models are the good products then?

Generally if no speeds are listed, it's crap. If it's 5+ years old, it's probably not up to modern standards.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:41 pm

Waco wrote:
They're still one of the biggest manufacturers, and WD technically owns them. I have lots of their stuff.

This just happens to be crappy old product, which is why it's cheap.

The flaky 128GB memory card I had wasn't that old. Seemed like crappy new product to me...
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:46 pm

just brew it! wrote:
The flaky 128GB memory card I had wasn't that old. Seemed like crappy new product to me...

If we're talking SD cards, they're controllerless to my knowledge so it depends on both the system and the card.

Quality I'm not sure I can say much about but those things are not my favorite tech.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:59 pm

LostCat wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
The flaky 128GB memory card I had wasn't that old. Seemed like crappy new product to me...

If we're talking SD cards, they're controllerless to my knowledge so it depends on both the system and the card.

Quality I'm not sure I can say much about but those things are not my favorite tech.

So if I wanted to get a 128GB USB3 flash drive that actually has USB3 speeds, what do I get?
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:07 pm

whm1974 wrote:
So if I wanted to get a 128GB USB3 flash drive that actually has USB3 speeds, what do I get?

Most USB3 flash drives I've seen will top out around 200 megs per second and that's assuming reasonably large files and no heat issues.

Any of the ones that have a decent speed claimed on the product page should be good...I've been using a 64GB ADATA N005 Pro a while and it's pretty decent, but it's not their newest stuff either.

I doubt many of them will actually reach their advertised speeds, but they're still worlds above any USB2 drive.
And now I'm no longer primarily a PC gamer. *shrug*
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Wed Jun 07, 2017 1:11 am

whm1974 wrote:
So if I wanted to get a 128GB USB3 flash drive that actually has USB3 speeds, what do I get?
Just look for a review.

Note Sandisk Ultra and Extreme models are fine, depending on how much you want to pay. The plain Sandisks are budget models which have always been slow.
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:02 am

just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
They're still one of the biggest manufacturers, and WD technically owns them. I have lots of their stuff.

This just happens to be crappy old product, which is why it's cheap.

The flaky 128GB memory card I had wasn't that old. Seemed like crappy new product to me...

Things break sometimes. :shrug:

I've had HDDs die too, does that make them crappy? :P
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:40 am

There are quite a few reports of them not holding up as well as other brands when used in dashcams. Granted, that's a fairly stressful use case for flash, but if other vendors can handle it they should be able to as well.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:51 pm

just brew it! wrote:
There are quite a few reports of them not holding up as well as other brands when used in dashcams. Granted, that's a fairly stressful use case for flash, but if other vendors can handle it they should be able to as well.

There could be something there, but dashcams, like you said, are torture for flash. There's really no way to make that nice. (Device size / camera bitrate) * flash durability is about as long as you can expect them to run before they exceed their physical limits. I mean, even being optimistic and saying the flash can do 200 overwrites, a 32 GB card with a 20 mbps dashcam would kill the flash in around 30 days of running.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:28 pm

Well that sucks. I use a lot of cheap SanDisk drives, but not for large file transfers. Also got a couple of those skinny Verbatim drives that JBI mentioned.
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:53 pm

Those Cruzer Edge drives aren't advertised as being fast. They're not for regular usage. They're either to keep a small archive of files, or "Hey, I need a flash drive real quick to get some drivers on a computer that can't access the Internet yet." I have several of those, but 16GB. I got them out of a huge bargain bin full of them at Walmart for less than $5 each. On the flip side I have multiple of the SanDisk Ultra Fit drives in 16GB up through 128GB. They're fast, but they do get hot.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:07 pm

curtisb wrote:
Those Cruzer Edge drives aren't advertised as being fast. They're not for regular usage. They're either to keep a small archive of files, or "Hey, I need a flash drive real quick to get some drivers on a computer that can't access the Internet yet." I have several of those, but 16GB. I got them out of a huge bargain bin full of them at Walmart for less than $5 each. On the flip side I have multiple of the SanDisk Ultra Fit drives in 16GB up through 128GB. They're fast, but they do get hot.

Heat in flash is actually better for long-term retention. Write hot, store cold. :)
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:26 pm

I was burned by new flash drives too. Like you, I was thinking that anything would be faster than the drive I had been using for over 4 years.

SanDisk seems to be one of the worst offenders IMO. I've had a really bad run with reliability as well. It have to buy "throw away" drives for work purposes once every few months and usually end up at a local retailer. The SanDisk thumb drives all seem to stop being recognized by the host system, you have to plug and unplug them numerous times before they'll show up and half the time they partially show up. The drive letter gets assigned but you can't access the data and it wants you to format it. I've had it happen with Server 2003 all the way to 2016 (and xp-win10).

The free thumb drives I get from trade shows all run faster and have no reliability problems. The Kingston thumb drives we have also work flawlessly and are faster.

I really wish they had some kind of performance rating as a standard.

SanDisk is now blacklisted at work.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:23 pm

Convert wrote:
I was burned by new flash drives too. Like you, I was thinking that anything would be faster than the drive I had been using for over 4 years.

SanDisk seems to be one of the worst offenders IMO. I've had a really bad run with reliability as well. It have to buy "throw away" drives for work purposes once every few months and usually end up at a local retailer. The SanDisk thumb drives all seem to stop being recognized by the host system, you have to plug and unplug them numerous times before they'll show up and half the time they partially show up. The drive letter gets assigned but you can't access the data and it wants you to format it. I've had it happen with Server 2003 all the way to 2016 (and xp-win10).

The free thumb drives I get from trade shows all run faster and have no reliability problems. The Kingston thumb drives we have also work flawlessly and are faster.

I really wish they had some kind of performance rating as a standard.

SanDisk is now blacklisted at work.

Because they write more slowly if you buy the cheap ones, perhaps you should ensure that "safely remove" is always used properly, or disable write caching. The slower the drive, the longer the window where you're vulnerable if you remove the device improperly. The symptoms you describe sound like the filesystem is getting corrupted.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:41 pm

The last one I got did it out of the packaging. I'm always good about ejecting them and I've messed with write caching without success. Formatting them doesn't alleviate it either.

I really couldn't believe that all of the SanDisk drives started acting like this, and they are all isolated to unique systems too.

I was so confused by it that I did a lot of research and found that the counterfeiters seemed to be targeting SanDisk, but after checking my drives they were genuine. I even RMAed them successfully (though the replacements started exhibiting it too). Given the purchase timeline, and that they were all bought at big retailers, I couldn't imagine that all of them were convincing fakes.

Once I switched brands I haven't had the problem since, so I couldn't do anything but write it off as SanDisk selling POS drives.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:49 pm

Convert wrote:
The last one I got did it out of the packaging. I'm always good about ejecting them and I've messed with write caching without success. Formatting them doesn't alleviate it either.

I really couldn't believe that all of the SanDisk drives started acting like this, and they are all isolated to unique systems too.

I was so confused by it that I did a lot of research and found that the counterfeiters seemed to be targeting SanDisk, but after checking my drives they were genuine. I even RMAed them successfully (though the replacements started exhibiting it too). Given the purchase timeline, and that they were all bought at big retailers, I couldn't imagine that all of them were convincing fakes.

Once I switched brands I haven't had the problem since, so I couldn't do anything but write it off as SanDisk selling POS drives.

So which brands are known to work just fine?
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:25 pm

whm1974 wrote:
So which brands are known to work just fine?

Blanket statements are difficult to make, because it can also vary from model to model.

The Verbatim Clip drives I mentioned seem to be very reliable, but they're rather slow.

PNY's Attache thumbdrives seem to be generally decent, but are physically large and ugly; I've had trouble with their memory cards. Similarly with Kingston -- thumbdrives seem to be OK, memory cards are questionable.

For larger/faster (USB 3.0) thumbdrives, my Wintec 32GB FileMate and my Silicon Power 256GB seem to be holding up well.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:51 pm

My employer got a big batch of custom-logo-emblazoned 8 GB drives to give out at trade shows, and not only do they read and write in the mid-single-digits, but I've heard that at least two people in my studio have had them expire in a literal puff of smoke when trying to copy files to them.

I have a hard time throwing away even obsolete storage if it still works (got a shelf full of 20-80GB USB 2.0 HDDs at home), but I chucked out that flash drive without a second thought.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 4:54 pm

whm1974 wrote:
So which brands are known to work just fine?


AFAIK every brand has good and bad products, assuming they cover all ends of the spectrum.

You cannot decide by brand alone, you need brand+model. Corsair and Samsung drives seem to be universally good, but neither of them make anything that's remotely competitive in terms of GB/$, so effectively their lack of slow drives is simply because they don't make anything in that price/performance segment.

Kingston SE9 models are all I can recommend from a huge (several hundred) sample size, but that doesn't mean that all Kingston drives are good.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 7:53 pm

I had one of those, (the 16GB version), and as you say, performance is terrible. Now I have the Sandisk Ultra Flair 64GB, and performance while not stellar is much better : around sustained 35MB/s whiel writing on an USB 3.0 port, and is not that expensive (around 24€ for the 64GB version).
There you have it :

https://img.pccomponentes.com/articles/ ... -3-0-1.jpg
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:37 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Blanket statements are difficult to make, because it can also vary from model to model.

Chrispy_ wrote:
AFAIK every brand has good and bad products, assuming they cover all ends of the spectrum. You cannot decide by brand alone, you need brand+model.

This. Flash drives in particular can be very aggravating, because a company like Sandisk might have a dozen different model lines with no clear distinction between them, and ambiguous names with no real meaning. It's hard to tell where each model falls in the lineup, even within a single manufacturer. All you can really do is look at reviews.

On a related note, Amazon's overall ratings have become completely useless these days, and almost seem to be intentionally misleading customers. The 16GB version of the aforementioned Sandisk Cruzer Edge is a prefect example. 30% gave it a worst-possible 1-star, and 11% gave it 2-stars, yet it still manages to pull off a deceptively high 4-stars overall despite close to half of the buyers giving it an extremely negative rating. Ridiculous.

I see that all the time lately.
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:53 pm

The Egg wrote:
On a related note, Amazon's overall ratings have become completely useless these days, and almost seem to be intentionally misleading customers. The 16GB version of the aforementioned Sandisk Cruzer Edge is a prefect example. 30% gave it a worst-possible 1-star, and 11% gave it 2-stars, yet it still manages to pull off a deceptively high 4-stars overall despite close to half of the buyers giving it an extremely negative rating. Ridiculous.

I don't think it is Amazon trying to be intentionally misleading, I think it is mostly stupid people posting reviews, and (in the case of 3rd party sellers "Fulfilled by Amazon") some percentage of "fake" reviews being posted by people affiliated with the seller.

I've learned that with any site that allows user reviews, you have to read at least a few of the reviews instead of just relying on the overall rating. I got burned by this a couple of years ago booking a hotel on Expedia. The overall rating was OK, but if I had read the reviews I would've never booked a room there. The hotel turned out to be the sort of place you go with your... *ahem*... "escort". We could've probably gotten an hourly rate if we'd wanted. At least we weren't traveling with children, like some of the other (rather distressed) customers who posted 1-star reviews! (I went back and read some of the reviews after the fact, since it was truly a "WTF?!??" experience.)

The overall 3-star Expedia rating for that hotel was a mix of 5-star ratings (clearly from escorts and their customers), and 1-star ratings (clearly from people who were just looking to book an inexpensive hotel near the airport and -- like me -- didn't read enough of the reviews).
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:21 pm

just brew it! wrote:
I've learned that with any site that allows user reviews, you have to read at least a few of the reviews instead of just relying on the overall rating. I got burned by this a couple of years ago booking a hotel on Expedia. The overall rating was OK, but if I had read the reviews I would've never booked a room there. The hotel turned out to be the sort of place you go with your... *ahem*... "escort". We could've probably gotten an hourly rate if we'd wanted. At least we weren't traveling with children, like some of the other (rather distressed) customers who posted 1-star reviews! (I went back and read some of the reviews after the fact, since it was truly a "WTF?!??" experience.)

The overall 3-star Expedia rating for that hotel was a mix of 5-star ratings (clearly from escorts and their customers), and 1-star ratings (clearly from people who were just looking to book an inexpensive hotel near the airport and -- like me -- didn't read enough of the reviews).



That's why you do research. You can't just stick any old drive in your port. This thread shows us it must be hot and fast, but some are only good for one or two uses before you chuck 'em to the side.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:26 pm

whm1974 wrote:
So which brands are known to work just fine?


Planer Flash has been in a spiral-race to the bottom-Look at Micron's TLC it's so bad their manufacturing partner
Intel wouldn't touch it-if the best binned is rubbish,imagine what the rejects that end up in USB drives is like.

Last year I remember reading about Samsung SD cards where-The pro line was using MLC and the EVO TLC.
So basically-you get what you pay for-look for reviews.

My pet hate is brand name USB3 drives that can't write above USB2 speeds.
Typical cheap brand name drives-70-90 read and around 9-11 write...............
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:37 am

just brew it! wrote:
The Egg wrote:
On a related note, Amazon's overall ratings have become completely useless these days, and almost seem to be intentionally misleading customers. The 16GB version of the aforementioned Sandisk Cruzer Edge is a prefect example. 30% gave it a worst-possible 1-star, and 11% gave it 2-stars, yet it still manages to pull off a deceptively high 4-stars overall despite close to half of the buyers giving it an extremely negative rating. Ridiculous.

I don't think it is Amazon trying to be intentionally misleading, I think it is mostly stupid people posting reviews, and (in the case of 3rd party sellers "Fulfilled by Amazon") some percentage of "fake" reviews being posted by people affiliated with the seller.
I've learned that with any site that allows user reviews, you have to read at least a few of the reviews instead of just relying on the overall rating.

While I don't use overall ratings once the process of narrowing down candidates has begun, I must confess to using it to some degree when beginning my initial search. It's true that many reviewers are idiots (especially with anything related to electronics), but once you get a large enough sample size, the truth about a product should start to emerge. I don't know for certain that Amazon is doing anything intentional, but at the very least, their algorithm is both extremely optimistic and wildly inconsistent.

In the case of the drive I linked, you've got an item where 41% of the reviews are extremely negative (beyond abysmal for a product), yet it somehow manages to pull off 4 of 5 stars. That's ridiculous, and you can find numerous examples of this. If you get 59% correct on a test in school, you get an F, not a B+.

In many other cases (don't have time to find examples, but they're easy to find), you'll have similar products (with a good sample size) where the number of 1-star reviews swings by 20%, yet the overall product rating is identical. Whatever algorithm Amazon uses, it certainly isn't doing their customers any favors.
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:37 am

FireGryphon wrote:
That's why you do research. You can't just stick any old drive in your port. This thread shows us it must be hot and fast, but some are only good for one or two uses before you chuck 'em to the side.

:wink:
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:21 am

Same thing happening to budget SSDs for quite a while: Gone are the good ol' decent stuff like MX100, and now its all about how much underperforming crap they can put into this segment while charging the same prices and hope the consumers are daft idiots.

That said, my new Sandisk Ultra 128GB mSD is way faster than my Samsung Evo+ 64GB mSD in all Crystalmark scores with both having the same GB/$, proof that not everything Sandisk is poo-poo.
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:08 am

strangerguy wrote:
Same thing happening to budget SSDs for quite a while: Gone are the good ol' decent stuff like MX100, and now its all about how much underperforming crap they can put into this segment while charging the same prices and hope the consumers are daft idiots.

That said, my new Sandisk Ultra 128GB mSD is way faster than my Samsung Evo+ 64GB mSD in all Crystalmark scores with both having the same GB/$, proof that not everything Sandisk is poo-poo.


It's especially weird. Sure, the race to the bottom and all that... but in the specific case of SATA SSD's, we still have choices and older models are still not just around, but actively being made.

WTF would someone buy a Adata SUx00 series? They're all crap from budget to premium. Sure the premium ones use Crucial 3D-TLC, but they're still crap, reviewed everywhere as crap, and people buy them.

Mushkin MLC drives are the exact same price and 2x as fast. HELLO? Okay, so you have a Laptop and you need a low-power drive... Crucial MX300, sure it's only fast on writes for some reason but it's the same price as everything else with slightly more storage space.

TLDR: I don't understand how new (mostly planar TLC!) drives sell at all when there are both good easily available alternatives and older versions both competing with the new crap.
 
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Re: SanDisk Cruzer Edge is *horrible*

Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:19 pm

"On a related note, Amazon's overall ratings have become completely useless these days"

I would not agree that they are useless, but as others noted, you really do have to read the reviews to determine if the reviewers seem competent. Also, I wanted to mention that a couple times I have noticed that Amazon does its math wrong in determining the average number of stars, so you may have to check that if the average does not seem to jibe with the reviews. For a recent purchase, when I added the fractional contribution from each number of stars, it did not sum to the stated average.

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