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meerkt
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Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:07 am

I'm trying to find an official warranty length statement for the HGST HTS541010A9E680 (also known as 0J22413?).

The warranty terms PDF (an HGST document) on Amazon just directs you to hgst.com:

How long does limited warranty coverage last?
...
HGST Product warranties last for different periods of time. To determine the warranty period for
your specific Product, please visit http://www.hgst.com.

HGST's site recursively refers you to hgst.com.
NewEgg says it's 3 years, but I want it from the horse's mouth.

An aside: anyone thinks a 2 year warranty/128MB cache HDD is a better choice than 3 years/8MB?
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:03 am

8 MB cache is pretty bad. Didn't realize anyone made drives with that little cache any more.
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meerkt
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:19 am

I don't think I've had a 2.5" HDD with more than 8 or 16MB cache. Any cache-centric reviews somewhere? I wasn't able to find any.
But considering I don't have any specific issues with 8MB drives, a longer warranty wins.
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:13 am

Maybe I just haven’t purchased a HDD in a while, but a 2 year warranty seems way too short. Also, I feel like I've been living under a rock and all of a sudden woke up to a world where HGST is the top-rated HDD manufacturer. Sheesh...
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:24 am

FWIW I just pulled up 7 2.5" drives at random on Newegg. 1 had 16MB cache, 2 had 32MB, 2 had 128MB, and 2 had some unspecified amount of hybrid RAM/FLASH cache. Maybe there are some other 8MB cache drives available, but I did not hit any of them in my (admittedly brief) check of the listings.

The lack of warranty info on HGST's site is strange. Newegg's listing is probably correct though.

I'd avoid it based on the cache size, regardless of warranty length.

In terms of reliability, HGST has generally been decent for a while now. They learned their lesson after the "Deathstar" fiasco and turned things around. Although all bets are off now that they are part of WD...
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:46 am

just brew it! wrote:
Although all bets are off now that they are part of WD...

...and just to expand on that: Seagate and WD have effectively acquired everyone else at this point. Toshiba is (sort of) back in the game as of a couple of years ago, but only because WD sold some of HGST's assets to them at the insistence of anti-trust regulators.
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techguy
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:53 am

It's Hitachi. The warranty length is irrelevant because the drive will still be running when the sun is going supernova.
 
meerkt
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:00 am

NewEgg's 3 years is just one data point. Other sites or specific listings show also 1 year and 2 years for the same model. I'd say that model might have different suffixes, or retail/OEM/whatever versions. Amazon's CS couldn't tell me what the warranty was, but was leaning toward 1 year, so I'll skip that specific HGST.

I don't know if one can extrapolate reliability from HGST's desktop models to 2.5". There's just no Backblaze data on 2.5" drives. :)

Cache-wise, interesting. I never paid much attention to it, and never found anything concrete to suggest that it matters. But I don't know. I currently use an 8MB Samsung (Seagate-era).

Anyway, Seagate I don't trust. WD is 2 years. HGST warranty is unknown and quite possibly 1-2 years. Right now my choice would be Toshiba. 8MB cache, explicit 3 year warranty.

FireGryphon wrote:
a 2 year warranty seems way too short.

That's become the common standard for 3.5". On 2.5" you still see 3 years sometimes on mainstream models.
 
Aether
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:32 am

I failed the challenge. It looks like they expect that you should just buy the drive, and when it fails, you can type the drive's serial number into the page at:

https://www2.hgst.com/portal/site/en/support/warranty/

so they can inform you that it's out of warranty. ;)
 
meerkt
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:34 pm

Aether wrote:
buy the drive, and when it fails, you can type the drive's serial number into the page

Solution: Find S/Ns before buying!
 
The Egg
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:33 pm

Well this is a silly question. The drive warranty will be in effect for exactly as long as it lasts*. If you have any questions, please refer to this document.



* subject to change without notice
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:59 pm

meerkt wrote:
Solution: Find S/Ns before buying!


The Egg wrote:
The drive warranty will be in effect for exactly as long as it lasts*. If you have any questions, please refer to this document.


Problem solved; next! :D
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:29 pm

I know this is beside the point, but there is no way I'd be buying a 5400 rpm HDD in 2017/2018. Especially if it is the only drive in the machine.
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:06 pm

DancinJack wrote:
I know this is beside the point, but there is no way I'd be buying a 5400 rpm HDD in 2017/2018. Especially if it is the only drive in the machine.

It's a mobile (2.5") drive. Most of them are 5400 RPM.

To the OP: I assume you need too much space for a SSD to be practical?
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:23 pm

just brew it! wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
I know this is beside the point, but there is no way I'd be buying a 5400 rpm HDD in 2017/2018. Especially if it is the only drive in the machine.

It's a mobile (2.5") drive. Most of them are 5400 RPM.

To the OP: I assume you need too much space for a SSD to be practical?


I understand it's 2.5". I'd still rather have a 256-512GB SSD (and pay the premium) than have a 1TB 5400 rpm drive as my boot drive in a laptop. Like I said though, that's just me.

BTW, this HGST 7200rpm 1TB 2.5" drive is actually CHEAPER than the one OP linked (and newer if I'm not mistaken, but I totally could be).

https://www.amazon.com/HGST-Travelstar- ... B00B4QESVQ
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meerkt
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:54 pm

Yeah, I don't want to splurge on a 1TB SSD. And despite their advantage, for my typical use a 5400 RPM HDD is hardly a bottleneck. It's mostly noticeable only after Windows wakes up.

7200 RPM drives should be noisier, and although I've no concrete evidence, I wonder if slightly less reliable.

The HGST 5400 RPM model sells for $42 from Amazon as the seller, it's just out of stock. But either way HGST's warranty is unsatisfactory.
You can find Seagate's 1TB/128MB/SSD hybrid/5 year warranty for around the same price as HGST's 7200 RPM, but it's Seagate, plus I'm not sure what happens if just the SSD part fails.
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:44 pm

meerkt wrote:
The HGST 5400 RPM model sells for $42 from Amazon as the seller, it's just out of stock. But either way HGST's warranty is unsatisfactory.
You can find Seagate's 1TB/128MB/SSD hybrid/5 year warranty for around the same price as HGST's 7200 RPM, but it's Seagate, plus I'm not sure what happens if just the SSD part fails.


As a boot drive your more likely to get the click of death before the flash wears out/fails........................
 
meerkt
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:05 am

It very well might be fine, but these drives are still more exotic and with less public scrutiny. I don't know what flash they use or what firmware decisions they've made.
It's not unheard of to have UFDs fail early, and TR's SSD weardown series revealed some very questionable end-of-life firmware logic.
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:53 pm

Aether wrote:
I failed the challenge. It looks like they expect that you should just buy the drive, and when it fails, you can type the drive's serial number into the page at:

https://www2.hgst.com/portal/site/en/support/warranty/

so they can inform you that it's out of warranty. ;)


It's more interesting and subtle than that.

I've run into this myself. The warranty length depends on.... where you bought the drive.

Retail? Direct? Ripped from an OEM PC? Remanufactured? All of those change the warranty period, even for the same exact model.

Fun times!
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:02 pm

Then there are those of us who don't worry about such things as long as infant mortality (i.e. DOA) is covered. The only reason I would ever care about warranty terms is as a proxy for the mfg's estimate of MTBF.

One must also remember that due to my day job I blow through new car warranties in 2 years, so I've never really put a whole lot of stock/faith in warranties.
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:09 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
It's more interesting and subtle than that.

I've run into this myself. The warranty length depends on.... where you bought the drive.

Retail? Direct? Ripped from an OEM PC? Remanufactured? All of those change the warranty period, even for the same exact model.

Fun times!

...and that's why they don't publish the warranty period on the web site.
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Aether
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Wed Dec 27, 2017 5:07 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
The warranty length depends on.... where you bought the drive.


Wow, the idea of attaching a warranty to a SKU instead of to a hardware design would have never occurred to me, which is one of the many reasons why I ended up in engineering instead of marketing.
 
meerkt
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:37 am

just brew it! wrote:
...and that's why they don't publish the warranty period on the web site.

They can list all the possibilities: Retail, OEM, etc. Or use model number suffixes. Other manufacturers manage.
Even HGST used to offer more details.
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:57 am

meerkt wrote:
It very well might be fine, but these drives are still more exotic and with less public scrutiny. I don't know what flash they use or what firmware decisions they've made.
It's not unheard of to have UFDs fail early, and TR's SSD weardown series revealed some very questionable end-of-life firmware logic.


Here's some basic data that shows failure rates similar to spinning rust-only 3.5" thro.
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/962-6/disques-durs.html

Haven't looked at 2-1/2" spinning rust for quite a while,but remember that the difference between the cheap and expensive ones was the movement sensors.
The better drives had drop sensors. The old golden rule-"Never move a hard drive when it's powered up."

Before SSD's I would never trust boot drives past 3 years-They would be replaced and put into secondary roles where they spend most of their time at idle with heads parked.
Operating systems are not nice to boot drives-constantly doing cr@p in the background-actuator arm never stops,and the newer the OS the worse it seems to be.
If I had a lappy with only one drive bay I'd use a 250GB SSD and a portable 2-1/2" spinning rust................................
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:15 am

Speaking of HDD reliability, I just discovered that one of the data drives in my desktop (a WD Blue, model WD40EZRZ) is one of the re-badged Green drives. With the stupid head parking issue. Over 2 million load/unload cycles. :roll:

Kicking myself for not noticing before the count got that high, but I thought I had read somewhere a couple of years ago that the too-short head unload timer was no longer an issue. :evil:
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:19 am

just brew it! wrote:
Speaking of HDD reliability, I just discovered that one of the data drives in my desktop (a WD Blue, model WD40EZRZ) is one of the re-badged Green drives. With the stupid head parking issue. Over 2 million load/unload cycles. :roll:

Kicking myself for not noticing before the count got that high, but I thought I had read somewhere a couple of years ago that the too-short head unload timer was no longer an issue. :evil:


Spinning rust has always been a lottery.
Bought some WD greens when they first came out-weren't very good.
Went to Samsung 103's as working drive 7200RPM (encoding) and 204-5400RPM for storage.All those drives still working today.
Now it's Seagate 2TB 7200RPM and 4TB 5900RPM or NAS 4TB for storage.......................
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:26 am

HERETIC wrote:
Spinning rust has always been a lottery.

SSDs are not exempt from the lottery effect. Just ask anyone who bought one of the dodgy OCZ drives, or a Samsung 840 EVO.
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HERETIC
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:12 am

just brew it! wrote:
HERETIC wrote:
Spinning rust has always been a lottery.

SSDs are not exempt from the lottery effect. Just ask anyone who bought one of the dodgy OCZ drives, or a Samsung 840 EVO.


Don't have one of them-worse-basic 840.
Still running fine(coming up to 5th birthday) as long as I run DiskFresh every 6 months.......

And I blame Sandforce for half the OCZ nightmare as well...

Anyway the graph on this page-
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/954-8/conclusion.html
puts SSD returns at about half as much as HDD,and as much as I expect HDD's being sent by couriers to have a high failure rate,
I think 2 to 1 is probably about right.Some interesting info there......................
 
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:07 pm

just brew it! wrote:
HERETIC wrote:
Spinning rust has always been a lottery.

SSDs are not exempt from the lottery effect. Just ask anyone who bought one of the dodgy OCZ drives, or a Samsung 840 EVO.


It really is true about the lottery thing; my 840 EVOs are still working fine and see daily use.

More seriously, pretty much every kind of drive is vulnerable to DOA.
 
meerkt
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Re: Challenge: Find HGST's official warranty length :)

Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:26 pm

First time I see an acousto-magnetic tag.
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