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Pville_Piper
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Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:03 pm

So, it looks like my gaming PC's C: drive went belly up... I'm still trouble shooting but it doesn't look good. I've been wanting to upgrade my hard drive from a 256 and I've been thinking about an M.2 as I've got a slot free. This one is on sale from Newegg https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820250085. Any downsides to doing this? I could go for a standard 2.5 inch Samsung 860 EVO. I'm trying to keep it under $150.
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:28 pm

I think that's the "old" WD Black, but it's still "fine." Here are a couple more options to consider. Any one would be fine.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6820250098 (this is the new WD Black that is faster by quite a bit, though depends on your usage ofc)
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... DF17442135 - good option, faster than your linked WD Black drive
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Pville_Piper
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:54 pm

Speed isn't a big thing, the main thing I do is game on that computer. Not sure about Adata... This is a Kingston Drive going bad and it's not that old, maybe 3 years. Reliability takes precedence.
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K-L-Waster
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:57 pm

If it's a gaming-only box there typically is very little real-world difference between SSDs in terms of performance (take a look at TR's SSD reviews for example -- while some drives are indeed faster than others, the size of the difference is so small you're unlikely to notice if you're not actively timing it).

Given that, you're best off to choose a short list of brands you trust and see what prices you can get.
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:20 pm

I would take M.2 for the form factor, but not worry too much about NVMe. The speed difference is so minimal.
 
Pville_Piper
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:10 pm

K-L-Waster wrote:
If it's a gaming-only box there typically is very little real-world difference between SSDs in terms of performance (take a look at TR's SSD reviews for example -- while some drives are indeed faster than others, the size of the difference is so small you're unlikely to notice if you're not actively timing it).

Given that, you're best off to choose a short list of brands you trust and see what prices you can get.


I know that for gaming I it doesn't make that much difference once you get to SSD level. I managed to get windows loaded on an older drive and once I did that I was able to get everything off the drive. Windows won't scan it and won't fix. It won't format the drive, I'm a little perplexed at what is wrong.
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:23 pm

Personally, for a SATA drive I would go for 2.5" instead of M.2, just because it's less fiddly to work with if you want to replace it or move it to a different machine. But that's a personal preference that might not align with your priorities.
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:14 pm

caconym wrote:
Personally, for a SATA drive I would go for 2.5" instead of M.2, just because it's less fiddly to work with if you want to replace it or move it to a different machine. But that's a personal preference that might not align with your priorities.

Yeah, the first system where you use new tech always presents some risk, since it makes troubleshooting harder if things don't work. In a similar vein, the first build on a new generation of DRAM always makes me a little nervous, since I don't have another motherboard to test the DIMMs on if I get memory errors or a failure to POST.
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Pville_Piper
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 am

You really can't go back home... Last night I loaded up an old 5400 rpm Seagate sata drive to see if I could get some stuff off the C: drive. Whoa nelly! I had forgotten how ssllloooowwwww mechanical drives can be.
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HERETIC
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:42 am

Pville_Piper wrote:
Speed isn't a big thing, the main thing I do is game on that computer. Not sure about Adata... This is a Kingston Drive going bad and it's not that old, maybe 3 years. Reliability takes precedence.


No3 in my lines in the sand for a SSD is-
"Dies must be cut and binned by manufacturer-not 3rd party"
Remembering-that's what helped kill OCZ.
Adata and Kingston fail that test..............................................

Before you declare drive dead-Try another SATA cable.
Good luck.
 
Waco
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:33 am

HERETIC wrote:
No3 in my lines in the sand for a SSD is-
"Dies must be cut and binned by manufacturer-not 3rd party"

Seems rather arbitrary.
Last edited by Waco on Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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ludi
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:36 am

Pville_Piper wrote:
I managed to get windows loaded on an older drive and once I did that I was able to get everything off the drive. Windows won't scan it and won't fix. It won't format the drive, I'm a little perplexed at what is wrong.

Some solid-state drives are programmed to enter a read-only state when a critical failure is pending. The idea is to be able to do exactly what you just did, without triggering a write action that would push the failure forward.

Could be what happened here but regardless, if you tried a different port and cable and got the same behavior...then it's a write-off. Verify you got all the data you wanted to save, put a drill bit through it a couple times to ensure nobody else can, and chuck it into the e-waste bin.
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HERETIC
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:00 pm

Waco wrote:
HERETIC wrote:
No3 in my lines in the sand for a SSD is-
"Dies must be cut and binned by manufacturer-not 3rd party"

Seems rather arbitrary.


Not really,
When you buy dies from Micron,Toshiba etc, your getting a known product.
When Adata and Kingston buy wafers and cut and bin themselves,who knows how
low they are willing to go.
OCZ were a worst example of this-using flash that should have gone off to $1 pen drives,
result was around 60% failure rate on some models.............................
 
ludi
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:05 pm

HERETIC wrote:
OCZ were a worst example of this-using flash that should have gone off to $1 pen drives,
result was around 60% failure rate on some models.............................

Eh? Last I knew, OCZ's problems were mainly due to serious flaws in their firmware, particularly with SandForce controllers. Where did you hear that it was due to FLASH failures?
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:11 pm

ludi wrote:
HERETIC wrote:
OCZ were a worst example of this-using flash that should have gone off to $1 pen drives,
result was around 60% failure rate on some models.............................

Eh? Last I knew, OCZ's problems were mainly due to serious flaws in their firmware, particularly with SandForce controllers. Where did you hear that it was due to FLASH failures?

Seems to me that problems with either one will tend to amplify problems with the other. It may have been a "perfect storm" sort of thing.
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HERETIC
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:58 pm

just brew it! wrote:
ludi wrote:
HERETIC wrote:
OCZ were a worst example of this-using flash that should have gone off to $1 pen drives,
result was around 60% failure rate on some models.............................

Eh? Last I knew, OCZ's problems were mainly due to serious flaws in their firmware, particularly with SandForce controllers. Where did you hear that it was due to FLASH failures?

Seems to me that problems with either one will tend to amplify problems with the other. It may have been a "perfect storm" sort of thing.


That was a long time ago-
If absolute fact or speculation, it was the chatter at the time.
OCZ unable to get enough flash, started buying wafers, that was coincidental with high failures with their lower end drives.
And yes, Sandforce was the other half of the nightmare....................
 
Waco
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:58 am

HERETIC wrote:
Waco wrote:
HERETIC wrote:
No3 in my lines in the sand for a SSD is-
"Dies must be cut and binned by manufacturer-not 3rd party"

Seems rather arbitrary.


Not really,
When you buy dies from Micron,Toshiba etc, your getting a known product.
When Adata and Kingston buy wafers and cut and bin themselves,who knows how
low they are willing to go.
OCZ were a worst example of this-using flash that should have gone off to $1 pen drives,
result was around 60% failure rate on some models.............................

I've never seen any evidence OCZs failure rates were due to anything except dodgy firmware. Any sources?
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ludi
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:28 am

Waco wrote:
I've never seen any evidence OCZs failure rates were due to anything except dodgy firmware. Any sources?

If OCZ started buying wafers at the same time they started having serious problems on the low-end lines, that would actually make a lot of sense. They were operating in move-fast-and-break-things mode for a number of years around that time. Did a good service in raising the volume of SSDs on the market and bringing down prices, but at the cost of their own QA/QC it appeared.
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Waco
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:48 am

ludi wrote:
Waco wrote:
I've never seen any evidence OCZs failure rates were due to anything except dodgy firmware. Any sources?

If OCZ started buying wafers at the same time they started having serious problems on the low-end lines, that would actually make a lot of sense. They were operating in move-fast-and-break-things mode for a number of years around that time. Did a good service in raising the volume of SSDs on the market and bringing down prices, but at the cost of their own QA/QC it appeared.

I guess you could conflate the two. I do recall they were writing some pretty serious firmware bugs that burned out flash in rapid order (I ended up flashing my OCZ drives over to another vendor's firmware because of them). Two of them (original Indilinx drives circa 2009) are still serving as game drives for the wifes Xbox One.
Last edited by Waco on Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:49 am

Even my first gen Sandforce drive still works last I checked, but it's OCZs first PCI-E drive so not quite up to the standards people expect today. And glitches on files larger than 4GB in some scenarios, so...yeah.

I don't use it anymore.

Still, all my OCZ drives were great and I'm using some AMD branded ones today. The only dead one I killed by not having it secured when I moved a box.
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:05 pm

My first SandForce based SSD is still in use as the OS drive in my home file server.
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HERETIC
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:23 am

Back to Pipers request for a reliable drive,
Here's some failure rates from hardware France- (2016)

Samsung 0,17% (contre 0,20%)
Intel 0,19% (contre 0,27%)
Crucial 0,31% (contre 0,28%)
Sandisk 0,31% (contre 0,62%)
Corsair 0,36% (contre 1,67%)
Kingston 0,44% (contre 0,29%)
https://www.hardware.fr/articles/962-7/ssd.html

They pretty much line up as expected-with Corsair as a bit of a floater,
that I put down to their use of Phison,who I think tend to use us as
crash test dummies.......................................

Today I don't think you could go wrong choosing a "Boot drive" from
Samsung,Crucial,Sandisk/WD Blue,Micron or Intel............
Drives to avoid are-Old planer TLC and Ram-less.............
good luck.
 
Pville_Piper
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Re: Hard Drive going south...

Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:17 am

I have a Crucial 500 gig SSD that I was using as my games drive. I will likely strip it and use it as my C: With 750 Seagate as a backup drive. I would love to get a terabyte and Newegg has a WD Blue on sale with promo code for $188. But money is a little tight right now so likely I won't.
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