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meerkt
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Mon May 06, 2019 12:11 pm

4TB in consumer SSD models, the price gap closes... it will be interesting to see how well people's old SSDs retain data.
Maybe a disaster waiting to happen?
 
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:40 am

@Waco - Any idea whether the ST4000DMZ04 is just a re-badge/re-spin of the ST4000DM004 SMR drive? Specs appear to be identical.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D9C7SQH
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 9:57 am

just brew it! wrote:
@Waco - Any idea whether the ST4000DMZ04 is just a re-badge/re-spin of the ST4000DM004 SMR drive? Specs appear to be identical.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D9C7SQH

Unless they're pulling new tricks, every non-pro Barracuda Compute is SMR from what I've seen so far.

I'll reach out to see if my contacts will clarify (they usually don't for consumer parts, but it's worth a shot).

EDIT: https://skinflint.co.uk/seagate-barracu ... 27258.html
That page marks the line as SMR, and additionally has the DMZ04 as a new model of the same line. I'd say SMR for sure unless there's evidence to the contrary.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:08 am

New thread for 2019 stats?
 
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:36 am

Interesting that they've taken almost all of their WDC drives out of service.
 
meerkt
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:44 am

A user in the comments says Backblaze has said in the past it was due to availability issues (the link goes nowhere, Disqus suqs).

BTW, they're about to hit 1EB of storage.
Last edited by meerkt on Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:46 am

A couple of the more important images for the lazy:
Q1 2019:
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Lifetime (2013 - 2019):
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 12:21 pm

Hmm, that 4TB 5900 Seagate desktop drive looks iffy, glad the enterprise ones are doing okay though; wish they were the quality of the pre-WD HGST drives though :(
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:50 pm

Topinio wrote:
Hmm, that 4TB 5900 Seagate desktop drive looks iffy, glad the enterprise ones are doing okay though; wish they were the quality of the pre-WD HGST drives though :(

IIRC those are from the period when BB was paying people to buy externals, shuck them, and ship them to BB.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:21 pm

My knee-jerk reaction is actually one of surprise at how good those numbers are. I wonder if being helium-filled has resulted in less wear when given an equal number of platters and spindle speed.
 
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:39 pm

Waco wrote:
IIRC those are from the period when BB was paying people to buy externals, shuck them, and ship them to BB.


That seems like a terrible idea to get any kind of consistency in the data. I suppose any drives abused enough to be damaged would be weeded out rather quickly though.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:54 am

Redocbew wrote:
Waco wrote:
IIRC those are from the period when BB was paying people to buy externals, shuck them, and ship them to BB.


That seems like a terrible idea to get any kind of consistency in the data. I suppose any drives abused enough to be damaged would be weeded out rather quickly though.

Well they needed drives and that was the easiest way to get them at the time. This was just after the floods in Thailand.

Remember, they're a business first and a data collection firm 37th. :)
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:45 am

Waco wrote:
EDIT: https://skinflint.co.uk/seagate-barracu ... 27258.html
That page marks the line as SMR, and additionally has the DMZ04 as a new model of the same line. I'd say SMR for sure unless there's evidence to the contrary.

So the rumors of consumer SMR drives being discontinued were premature? I had not seen the Z04 variant previously, so yeah they seem to be pretty new.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:15 am

just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
EDIT: https://skinflint.co.uk/seagate-barracu ... 27258.html
That page marks the line as SMR, and additionally has the DMZ04 as a new model of the same line. I'd say SMR for sure unless there's evidence to the contrary.

So the rumors of consumer SMR drives being discontinued were premature? I had not seen the Z04 variant previously, so yeah they seem to be pretty new.


So I guess that begs the question, for, say a 4TB drive, what would be all your best all round mechanical hard drive brand/model?
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:46 am

srg86 wrote:
So I guess that begs the question, for, say a 4TB drive, what would be all your best all round mechanical hard drive brand/model?

Aside from being a little pissed off at Seagate right now (for reasons unrelated to reliability), I'm brand-agnostic when it comes to HDDs. My selection rules for mechanical HDD purchases these days can be summed up as:

1. Make sure it isn't SMR. (Currently, this apparently means avoiding Seagate...)

2. All else being equal, prefer drives in factory retail packaging over OEM. OEM drives are often repacked poorly for shipment or otherwise mishandled. I will NEVER buy OEM drives at Microcenter after seeing bare drives just piled on shelves out on the sales floor (with no padding whatsoever). I've also received poorly packaged OEM drives from Newegg. Amazon seems to do a decent job packing their OEM drives, but I still prefer retail boxed if available at a similar price since you know the drive has not been out of its padded box since leaving the factory.

3. No refurbs!
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:47 am

srg86 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
EDIT: https://skinflint.co.uk/seagate-barracu ... 27258.html
That page marks the line as SMR, and additionally has the DMZ04 as a new model of the same line. I'd say SMR for sure unless there's evidence to the contrary.

So the rumors of consumer SMR drives being discontinued were premature? I had not seen the Z04 variant previously, so yeah they seem to be pretty new.


So I guess that begs the question, for, say a 4TB drive, what would be all your best all round mechanical hard drive brand/model?

I wouldn't buy anything smaller than 8TB right now. You can routinely get those for $130 shucked for a WD Red.
 
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:57 am

just brew it! wrote:
Aside from being a little pissed off at Seagate right now (for reasons unrelated to reliability), I'm brand-agnostic when it comes to HDDs. My selection rules for mechanical HDD purchases these days can be summed up as:

1. Make sure it isn't SMR. (Currently, this apparently means avoiding Seagate...)

2. All else being equal, prefer drives in factory retail packaging over OEM. OEM drives are often repacked poorly for shipment or otherwise mishandled. I will NEVER buy OEM drives at Microcenter after seeing bare drives just piled on shelves out on the sales floor (with no padding whatsoever). I've also received poorly packaged OEM drives from Newegg. Amazon seems to do a decent job packing their OEM drives, but I still prefer retail boxed if available at a similar price since you know the drive has not been out of its padded box since leaving the factory.

3. No refurbs!

This is pretty much where I stand, though I tend to lean HGST/Toshiba these days.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:02 pm

srg86 wrote:
So I guess that begs the question, for, say a 4TB drive, what would be all your best all round mechanical hard drive brand/model?

"Best" as in, with no regard for price? Generally the models with the longest warranties. I believe WD Blacks still carry 5 years, but at a significant price premium.
 
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:07 pm

The Egg wrote:
srg86 wrote:
So I guess that begs the question, for, say a 4TB drive, what would be all your best all round mechanical hard drive brand/model?

"Best" as in, with no regard for price? Generally the models with the longest warranties. I believe WD Blacks still carry 5 years, but at a significant price premium.

Unfortunately, the price premium of WD Blacks makes it harder to justify not going with a SSD instead. And in general, a HDD is gonna be less reliable than a SSD with the same warranty under normal use.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:14 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Unfortunately, the price premium of WD Blacks makes it harder to justify not going with a SSD instead. And in general, a HDD is gonna be less reliable than a SSD with the same warranty under normal use.

Not that I really disagree on the reliability part, but beyond the extremely low capacity HDDs (1-2TB), SSDs are going to be vastly more expensive once you get to the 4TB range we're talking about.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:51 pm

DancinJack wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Unfortunately, the price premium of WD Blacks makes it harder to justify not going with a SSD instead. And in general, a HDD is gonna be less reliable than a SSD with the same warranty under normal use.

Not that I really disagree on the reliability part, but beyond the extremely low capacity HDDs (1-2TB), SSDs are going to be vastly more expensive once you get to the 4TB range we're talking about.


Extremely low capacity 1-2TB? That's still a decent sized hard drive to me. I was mainly thinking of 4TB as a new drive to back up to (with separately bought enclosure), and that includes plenty of "growing into" room. I never was a huge data hoarder. Though this would also go for replacing internal hard drives if necessary.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 3:19 pm

srg86 wrote:
Extremely low capacity 1-2TB? That's still a decent sized hard drive to me. I was mainly thinking of 4TB as a new drive to back up to (with separately bought enclosure), and that includes plenty of "growing into" room. I never was a huge data hoarder. Though this would also go for replacing internal hard drives if necessary.

What can I say? Times have changed. I have a 3TB data/media/storage drive in my main PC (and a NAS on the side) and even the 3TB drive is cramped IMO.

I personally wouldn't buy an HDD that's under 8TB these days (if you have the budget for it), but there are a few factors that I take into account to reach that number personally.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:10 pm

DancinJack wrote:
srg86 wrote:
Extremely low capacity 1-2TB? That's still a decent sized hard drive to me. I was mainly thinking of 4TB as a new drive to back up to (with separately bought enclosure), and that includes plenty of "growing into" room. I never was a huge data hoarder. Though this would also go for replacing internal hard drives if necessary.

What can I say? Times have changed. I have a 3TB data/media/storage drive in my main PC (and a NAS on the side) and even the 3TB drive is cramped IMO.

I personally wouldn't buy an HDD that's under 8TB these days (if you have the budget for it), but there are a few factors that I take into account to reach that number personally.

"Hello, my name is Mike and I am a data hoarder..."

3 TB (~75% full) in the primary desktop system, a DIY 17 TB NAS (~80% full) in the crawlspace, and "important stuff" backed up to additional external drives.

No, I don't actually need instant access to all of the stuff on the NAS. Just too lazy to sort through it all and figure out what can be archived to offline storage and what can be deleted because it's obsolete/useless/redundant. As drive capacities have increased, it's just too easy to keep adding capacity and put off dealing with it...

(At the day job I deal with systems in the 100s of PB, so maybe that has warped my perspective somewhat... but every so often, I remind myself that back in the day we dealt with storage media with capacities measured in KB.)
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:21 am

just brew it! wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
srg86 wrote:
Extremely low capacity 1-2TB? That's still a decent sized hard drive to me. I was mainly thinking of 4TB as a new drive to back up to (with separately bought enclosure), and that includes plenty of "growing into" room. I never was a huge data hoarder. Though this would also go for replacing internal hard drives if necessary.

What can I say? Times have changed. I have a 3TB data/media/storage drive in my main PC (and a NAS on the side) and even the 3TB drive is cramped IMO.

I personally wouldn't buy an HDD that's under 8TB these days (if you have the budget for it), but there are a few factors that I take into account to reach that number personally.

"Hello, my name is Mike and I am a data hoarder..."

3 TB (~75% full) in the primary desktop system, a DIY 17 TB NAS (~80% full) in the crawlspace, and "important stuff" backed up to additional external drives.

No, I don't actually need instant access to all of the stuff on the NAS. Just too lazy to sort through it all and figure out what can be archived to offline storage and what can be deleted because it's obsolete/useless/redundant. As drive capacities have increased, it's just too easy to keep adding capacity and put off dealing with it...

(At the day job I deal with systems in the 100s of PB, so maybe that has warped my perspective somewhat... but every so often, I remind myself that back in the day we dealt with storage media with capacities measured in KB.)


I think I could probably get away with storing everything I have (that's not on physical media like DVDs) on a 1TB hard drive. Even then I still have files that are at least a couple of decades old (and some linux distro images). I guess I never shook off the days of having storage in KB (In my case it was 880KB Amiga floppies). What I don't have are GBs of archived DVDs or Blu-Rays on a drive or NAS, that probably helps.

I hope this hasn't de-railed the thread too much. I was mainly wondering if your usages tally with the Backblaze results and what are, in your experiences, the more reliable drives (and the ones to avoid).
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:38 pm

srg86 wrote:
So I guess that begs the question, for, say a 4TB drive, what would be all your best all round mechanical hard drive brand/model?

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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:51 am

just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
EDIT: https://skinflint.co.uk/seagate-barracu ... 27258.html
That page marks the line as SMR, and additionally has the DMZ04 as a new model of the same line. I'd say SMR for sure unless there's evidence to the contrary.

So the rumors of consumer SMR drives being discontinued were premature? I had not seen the Z04 variant previously, so yeah they seem to be pretty new.

Or they have an awful lot of old stock they're trying to dump. I'm pretty confident the production dried up over a year ago.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:04 am

Data hoarders anonymous!

I have 24TB of storage in my primary desktop: 1TB SSD, 2x8TB HDDs, 1x4TB HDD, 1x3TB HDD. I'm changing over the 4TB and 3TB drives to 8TB soon, and that's before getting into the NAS I'm building. Just waiting for deals on 12TB HGST Ultrastars so I can pick up like 5 or 6 of them.

Backblaze's data has been invaluable. More often than not it's only one or two specific models that tank a brand's reliability, and it's immensely useful just knowing which specific models to avoid. Before I started reading their reports I've wrongly bought into WD Greens and Seagate's DM001. But all of my HGST drives have been 100% problem-free, and it's their track record of proven reliability via Backblaze's reports that convinced me to insist on getting HGSTs for this new NAS even if their drives are more expensive than WD or Seagate.
 
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:26 am

Waco wrote:
Or they have an awful lot of old stock they're trying to dump. I'm pretty confident the production dried up over a year ago.

Odd to change the model number this late in the game if that's the case. Maybe they changed the firmware to make them suck less? (I'm not curious enough about whether that's in fact the case to take a chance on another one... :lol:)
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:31 am

It's possible. I know there were at least 2 revisions of the hardware and the firmware had many many revisions. I've even got "beta" firmware on my production drives because it behaves the least wonky.
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Re: Blackblaze's 2018 HDD stats

Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:33 am

Waco wrote:
the firmware had many many revisions

I'd say that's a pretty good indication that it was half-baked on initial release.
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