Personal computing discussed

Moderators: morphine, Steel

 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil XP
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Sun May 12, 2019 6:06 am

Topinio wrote:
Why are you so worried about the SSD's endurance, is it not being backed up?


It all stems from having a psychopath for a boss and NO IT budget, at least when I need something. It goes like this in my workplace: if I identify a need, boss will analyze it with a microscope and after a lot of contemplation, suggest a workaround that DOESN'T involve expenditure. Forget that he will order something extravagant if HE needs it. He's actually using a 32-inch Benq gaming monitor to read *drumroll please* EMAILS!

So I got this SSD for my work PC when he was in a good mood and my pitch was, SSDs are supposed to last longer than HDDs. Now I don't want to go and shoot myself in the foot by negating that very benefit by burning out the flash cells with unnecessary writes. Don't ask what will happen if something untoward does happen. It will involve a lot of shouting (except I won't be the one doing it). You don't wanna get screwed by a psychopath if you can avoid it. Trust me on that. Anyway, the lack of pagefile hasn't hurt me so far and I would like to sleep better at night knowing that precious flash cells are not getting hammered. And backup plan? Ha! I'm just lucky being paid on time.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52632
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Sun May 12, 2019 6:42 am

I worked for someone like that many years ago. The solution was to find a new job.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Topinio
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1711
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:28 am
Location: London

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Sun May 12, 2019 1:38 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
It all stems from having a psychopath for a boss and NO IT budget, at least when I need something. It goes like this in my workplace: if I identify a need, boss will analyze it with a microscope and after a lot of contemplation, suggest a workaround that DOESN'T involve expenditure. Forget that he will order something extravagant if HE needs it. He's actually using a 32-inch Benq gaming monitor to read *drumroll please* EMAILS!

So I got this SSD for my work PC when he was in a good mood and my pitch was, SSDs are supposed to last longer than HDDs. Now I don't want to go and shoot myself in the foot by negating that very benefit by burning out the flash cells with unnecessary writes. Don't ask what will happen if something untoward does happen. It will involve a lot of shouting (except I won't be the one doing it). You don't wanna get screwed by a psychopath if you can avoid it. Trust me on that. Anyway, the lack of pagefile hasn't hurt me so far and I would like to sleep better at night knowing that precious flash cells are not getting hammered. And backup plan? Ha! I'm just lucky being paid on time.

Jeez mate, that sucks, hard. I hope you're looking for a different job, being vulnerable to actual real-world downsides of a future failure of a very fallible piece of short-lived consumer electronics must be very stressful. I guess he doesn't undertand the concepts of warranty period and field failures?
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX Vega 56, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + G2420HDB
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, RX 580, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2888
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Sun May 12, 2019 8:59 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
Topinio wrote:
Why are you so worried about the SSD's endurance, is it not being backed up?


It all stems from having a psychopath for a boss and NO IT budget, at least when I need something. It goes like this in my workplace: if I identify a need, boss will analyze it with a microscope and after a lot of contemplation, suggest a workaround that DOESN'T involve expenditure. Forget that he will order something extravagant if HE needs it. He's actually using a 32-inch Benq gaming monitor to read *drumroll please* EMAILS!

So I got this SSD for my work PC when he was in a good mood and my pitch was, SSDs are supposed to last longer than HDDs. Now I don't want to go and shoot myself in the foot by negating that very benefit by burning out the flash cells with unnecessary writes. Don't ask what will happen if something untoward does happen. It will involve a lot of shouting (except I won't be the one doing it). You don't wanna get screwed by a psychopath if you can avoid it. Trust me on that. Anyway, the lack of pagefile hasn't hurt me so far and I would like to sleep better at night knowing that precious flash cells are not getting hammered. And backup plan? Ha! I'm just lucky being paid on time.

You need a new boss (AKA new job). There's zero reason to work for someone that acts like this (further, it's not like he'd know how/why your SSD died...things die. That's how life works).
Desktop: Z170A | 6700K @ 4.4 | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB NVME + 2 TB SATA + LSI (128x8) RAID 0
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
GrimDanfango
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 9:53 am

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Sun May 12, 2019 9:31 pm

BIF wrote:
I'll also call "BS" on advice to twiddle around with pagefile settings, and especially to those who delete it. On one hand, you hear people say "it doesn't cause problems". Then the truth comes out some weeks or months later. They get blue screens now and again, or other wacky crap is happening. But no, deleting their page file doesn't cause any problems. Can you spell "denial"?

Personally, I don't understand why Microsoft hasn't yet disabled the ability to have a 0 sized virtual memory option.

The only thing I used to do was move it to another partition and never defrag that partition, just to avoid having it be a big block of un-defraggable space on my OS partition. But that was the "olden days". We stopped delivering most mail by horseback and we stopped watching black and white television for a reason. With SSDs now, that doesn't even matter anymore. People, stop tweaking your Windows 10 systems, that's just a waste of time!


Have to say, I've run Windows 7 and Windows 10 entirely without a page file for the better part of 10 years at this point, and have *never* encountered a problem. Since the XP days, bluescreens seem to be a thing of the past for me.
Of course, I do CGI work, so I've always got the thing loaded with RAM. 32GB for a long time, more recently stepped up to 128GB.
I wouldn't care if Windows' auto-allocation intelligently reduced the pagefile size if you're never using it, but Windows has this silly habit of defaulting to some multiple of your RAM, so the bigger I go, the larger swathe of my SSD gets wasted by something I'm never going to use.

It actually works out a net benefit for me anyway. If I've set up a fluid simulation that spreads out over more than the available RAM, I *want* it to crash out with a memory error... rather than sit there, grinding away on my SSD, reducing the whole thing to snail's pace, until I poke around and realise I've gone over the limit.

I see no reason at all to use a page file provided you're happy to spam huge amounts of RAM instead.


On topic... I'm looking forward to the day I can replace my 12x 3.5" 4u server with a handful of SSDs inside a system that could fit in my carry-on.
I just hope that by that point, someone's made a mini-ITX board with integrated 10GbE :-P
 
Topinio
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1711
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:28 am
Location: London

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Mon May 13, 2019 12:59 pm

The system-managed page file in Windows 10 1507 and Windows Server 2016 and beyond is at minimum 1/8th RAM or 32 GB, whichever is smallest. It's also more aggressive about down-sizing (in theory). Assuming you force the system crash dump setting to 'small memory dump'.

Compare with Windows 7, when the minimum was the same as the installed RAM.
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX Vega 56, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + G2420HDB
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, RX 580, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Mon May 13, 2019 1:19 pm

GrimDanfango wrote:
It actually works out a net benefit for me anyway. If I've set up a fluid simulation that spreads out over more than the available RAM, I *want* it to crash out with a memory error... rather than sit there, grinding away on my SSD, reducing the whole thing to snail's pace, until I poke around and realise I've gone over the limit.


That's a very different starting point than most people have when fussing with the pagefile on Windows. Most people do that because they haven't learned the difference between cruft and complexity. They don't understand that complexity is often hidden from the user for a good reason, and poking at it the wrong way can be much more trouble than it's worth. Understanding all of that and finding a way to make this work to your advantage doesn't mean it's generally a good idea. It just means that you are weird. :P
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
freebird
Gerbil
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:03 pm

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Mon May 13, 2019 2:40 pm

I guess that's what happens when AMD leaves a bottle of their CPU "glue" lying around... someone else will start playing with it. Has anyone seen Chuckula lately???
 
GrimDanfango
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 110
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 9:53 am

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Mon May 13, 2019 11:04 pm

Topinio wrote:
The system-managed page file in Windows 10 1507 and Windows Server 2016 and beyond is at minimum 1/8th RAM or 32 GB, whichever is smallest. It's also more aggressive about down-sizing (in theory). Assuming you force the system crash dump setting to 'small memory dump'.

Compare with Windows 7, when the minimum was the same as the installed RAM.

Ah, interesting. In truth, I hadn't really checked since switching to Windows 10, I just automatically turn it off from years of habit. I guess it's not so much of an issue as before.

Redocbew wrote:
...
Understanding all of that and finding a way to make this work to your advantage doesn't mean it's generally a good idea. It just means that you are weird. :P

Fair point. Guilty as charged :-P
I still maintain that the practical difference between on and off when using upward of 32GB of RAM is just a chunk of wasted SSD reclaimed. A smaller chunk than I thought apparently, but still a chunk.
I still think something telling people they ran out of RAM and may need more *might* be more useful in practice than something that doesn't tell them anything, and just slows to a crawl instead.
 
Redocbew
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Mon May 13, 2019 11:41 pm

I believe older(like 15 years ago older) versions of MacOS did that. If you ran up against the limit it complained that you needed to turn on virtual memory in order to keep doing what you're doing. I wouldn't mind having that option either, but I guess it goes against the grain in Windows.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil XP
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Tue May 14, 2019 7:30 am

Topinio wrote:
Jeez mate, that sucks, hard. I hope you're looking for a different job, being vulnerable to actual real-world downsides of a future failure of a very fallible piece of short-lived consumer electronics must be very stressful. I guess he doesn't undertand the concepts of warranty period and field failures?


I'm a 38 year old dinosaur who hasn't really kept up with the times. So don't see many good options. Gonna just wait it out until I can get my mojo back. As for my boss, I suspect he understands really well but just pretends not to. Psychopaths are really good at doing that.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52632
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Tue May 14, 2019 9:30 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
I'm a 38 year old dinosaur who hasn't really kept up with the times. So don't see many good options. Gonna just wait it out until I can get my mojo back.

38? You're just a kid! :wink:

I've got nearly 2 decades on you. Last job change was ~3 years ago, hoping I don't need to make another one but it might need to happen before I can retire. (If I can ever retire... :-?)

I've been making a conscious effort to try and keep my skills current. Yes, I know it is easy to just coast, and hard to get motivated to step outside your comfort zone... but letting inertia take over is dangerous (as you've discovered). As of 4 years ago I was sort of coasting... then a particularly bad corporate acquisition jolted me back to reality when it turned my then-current job to sh*t. Two job changes later I've kind of settled in again, but need to not get too complacent.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Igor_Kavinski
Gerbil XP
Posts: 464
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 2:34 am

Re: OMG, a 7.6 TB 2.5" SSD...does this really exist?

Wed May 15, 2019 2:30 am

just brew it! wrote:
38? You're just a kid! :wink:


I bet you are twice as healthy as I am. Been struggling with health issues since 2017 and can't do anything seriously until I know that I'm gonna be around to enjoy the fruit of my labor.

just brew it! wrote:
As of 4 years ago I was sort of coasting... then a particularly bad corporate acquisition jolted me back to reality when it turned my then-current job to sh*t.


Could be what I need too.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests