Personal computing discussed

Moderators: morphine, Steel

 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:18 am

Any experience with MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

They sell HDDs for cheaper than usual. Maybe NOS or even used (though not stated as such in the description), but with Amazon's habit of mixing multiple sellers in the same listing it's difficult to know.

HGST Ultrastar 7K4000 4TB for $70 is tempting, but I'm not sure about the validity of the 5 years warranty. I assume "Fulfilled by Amazon" doesn't cover the longer-term warranty.
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 18708
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:33 am

I don't know about your Amazon seller. The warranty would be from HGST (or WD).

A new, retail boxed 5 TB 7200 rpm drive is $125, so you would be saving a significant percentage with the loose drive, if it has not been damaged in shipping.
i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52988
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:08 pm

If I look up the listing for HUS724040ALA640 on Newegg, the oldest review is from 2013. So assuming they aren't refurbs, they are almost certainly "new old stock" of a 5+ year old drive. They will likely be slower, more power-hungry, and noisier than modern equivalents, and you may have difficulty getting warranty service from HGST if the drive fails. On the plus side, HGST drives from that era had very good reliability; but be aware that you're likely dealing with a drive that has been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for half a decade.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sat Jun 15, 2019 12:49 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
The warranty would be from HGST (or WD).

The question is whether it's valid. I'll see what the seller says.
I'm less concerned about shipping damage or mortality within 30 days, which are going to be covered in all cases.

retail boxed 5 TB 7200 rpm drive

It's $105 for a 4TB Toshiba X, and only 2 years warranty (3 years for N series).

just brew it! wrote:
has been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for half a decade.

Any correlation with failure, especially non-infant?

just brew it! wrote:
likely be slower, more power-hungry, and noisier than modern equivalents

It's not like HDDs advance much these days. They'd still be newer than any 3.5" I currently have. :)
But I suppose it would be nicer to have less than 5 platters (extrapolating from other Ultrastar 7K4000 models).
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52988
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:28 am

meerkt wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
has been sitting in a warehouse somewhere for half a decade.

Any correlation with failure, especially non-infant?

Well, they don't have infinite shelf life. Lubricants and electrolytic capacitors eventually dry out. Corrosion of internal components may be a concern if the original factory seal has been breached, or they have been stored somewhere damp. Barring a broken seal on the internal ESD bag they should still be OK, but I wouldn't expect them to have as much life remaining on them as when they were brand new.

At least these are old enough that you don't need to worry about helium leakage...

meerkt wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
likely be slower, more power-hungry, and noisier than modern equivalents

It's not like HDDs advance much these days. They'd still be newer than any 3.5" I currently have. :)
But I suppose it would be nicer to have less than 5 platters (extrapolating from other Ultrastar 7K4000 models).

Yeah, platter count and bit density will be the main differences, since (as you say) the tech hasn't changed all that much. But higher platter count translates to higher power usage (due to increased air resistance of the spinning platters) and more noise (from a larger heavier head actuator). Lower bit density means lower sequential I/O speeds.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:16 am

Any hard data on lifespan of NOS drives? Where do you have electrolytic caps in them? Lubricants, am I wrong to think that if it runs fine for the first week-month, it's cleared the hurdle? Corrosion, well, the best I can do is hope hardware warehouses aren't drafty shacks by the sea. :)

Official acoustics specs are the same for Ultrastar 7K4000, 7K6000, HC310 (7K6), though no idea what's reality. I've seen complaints about HGST in general.

One advantage for the older models is error rate. For 4TB, the newer HC310 is with 1E14, the 7K6000 and 7K4000 with 1E15.

BTW, WD's changed their logo to yuck, and turned their site from useful to "hip". Hooray.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52988
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:11 am

meerkt wrote:
Any hard data on lifespan of NOS drives?

Not that I'm aware of.

meerkt wrote:
Where do you have electrolytic caps in them?

Potentially in the same kinds of areas where motherboards would have them, i.e. for power smoothing. There's a good chance they switched to all solid electrolyte before then, but I am not certain of this.

meerkt wrote:
Lubricants, am I wrong to think that if it runs fine for the first week-month, it's cleared the hurdle?

I don't think you can assume that. Sub-standard lubrication will show up as accelerated wear, but a month of running may not be enough to tell you whether that's the case.

meerkt wrote:
Corrosion, well, the best I can do is hope hardware warehouses aren't drafty shacks by the sea. :)

Anywhere with high humidity could be an issue if the warehouse isn't climate-controlled. Even a sealed bag will allow some diffusion through the plastic, and eventually the little pack of silica gel gets saturated and stops soaking up water vapor.

meerkt wrote:
Official acoustics specs are the same for Ultrastar 7K4000, 7K6000, HC310 (7K6), though no idea what's reality. I've seen complaints about HGST in general.

Yes, historically HGST drives have not been known for being quiet. Some models also tended to make unusual (for a hard drive) noises on occasion, but this was "normal".

meerkt wrote:
One advantage for the older models is error rate. For 4TB, the newer HC310 is with 1E14, the 7K6000 and 7K4000 with 1E15.

I don't think you can assume that the drive still meets factory error rate specs 5 years on. All it really tells you is that WHEN THE DRIVE WAS NEW, it should've been of higher quality than current consumer drives.

All of the above said, none of it should be a huge issue unless the drive has been stored under sub-optimal conditions or otherwise mis-handled. My main concern would be if you DO have a problem, is the warranty still valid? If you're thinking of buying several of them, I suppose you could test this by buying one at first, and checking the warranty status via HGST's web site.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:40 am

just brew it! wrote:
I don't think you can assume that the drive still meets factory error rate specs 5 years on.

I'd assume it's the spec during at least the drive's normal lifespan.

is the warranty still valid?

Waiting for the seller's reply.

just brew it! wrote:
There's a good chance they switched to all solid electrolyte before then

As far as I can tell there's no room for electrolytics on HDD boards, especially modern ones.
Image
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52988
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:35 am

meerkt wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
I don't think you can assume that the drive still meets factory error rate specs 5 years on.

I'd assume it's the spec during at least the drive's normal lifespan.

"Normal lifespan" for HDDs is typically assumed to be ~5 years, so you're potentially already at the edge of that, if not past it. Granted, that was with the power off in this case, which eliminates the possibility of mechanical wear; but lubricants will continue to dry out and corrosion (in the case of high humidity storage conditions) will continue to occur whether the drive is powered or not.

If it was me, I would pass on these. IMO not worth the potential hassle to save a few bucks.

Sounds like you've already made up your mind to buy them, and are just fishing around for someone to tell you "yeah, looks great, no worries... go for it". You're not going to convince me to be that "someone". This might very well be a fantastic deal on some great drives; but 5+ year old NOS drives with questionable warranty status from a random 3rd party seller is just too many yellow flags for me.

meerkt wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
is the warranty still valid?

Waiting for the seller's reply.

I would not trust some random 3rd party seller I've never heard of before to give me an honest answer to that.

When you receive them, make sure you check the warranty status with HGST, based on the serial numbers of the drives. If it's substantially short of 5 years, I assume you should be able to return them (if you decide not to take the risk) within Amazon's return window since they're "Fulfilled by Amazon".

Also keep in mind that for OEM drives, responsibility for honoring the warranty may be through the reseller/distributor (not HGST). In this case, I'm not sure if that would be Amazon or MD Tech.

Let us know how it goes.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:22 am

The thread was mainly about the sellers and warranty. If they say it's manufacturer that's all I need to know. I'll check the OEM aspect to make sure (though I've never bought a non-OEM 3.5" drive).

Does HGST/WD let you register the purchase date? My recent experience with Toshiba was that they do, and the count starts then.

BTW, both sellers rate good on Amazon, but I never felt Amazon's seller rating is all that informative. It seems DBSKY are also on eBay, with a very good 99.9% rating on >5600 sales the last 12 months.

NOS did make me wonder, and your more specific doubts on top of that. On the other hand, everyone's in-use drives are OOS, and they last in active use for much more than 5 years. So, I don't know. Not enough concrete info.
 
sluggo
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1651
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:44 pm
Location: under the table and dreaming

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:32 pm

One of the buyers checked the SMART data and found his "new" drive had over 25,000 hours on it, or roughly three years of run time.
There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action - Goethe
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:15 pm

MD Tech replied. 5 year warranty by seller, not manufacturer.

sluggo wrote:
"new" drive had over 25,000 hours

The problem with Amazon's multi-seller listings, there's no inherent way to tell which specific seller was involved.
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:16 pm

I've got no experience with those sellers but in general I've had great luck on eBay and Amazon for refurb drives. If they make it the first month after a few days of burning in they tend to last quite a while. Assuming you are protecting your data well, the cost savings can be pretty epic.
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB NVME + 2 TB SATA + LSI (128x8) RAID
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52988
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 6:20 am

meerkt wrote:
MD Tech replied. 5 year warranty by seller, not manufacturer.

Well, there you have it. So the warranty is effectively "5 years or until MD Tech disappears, whichever comes first."

Up to you to decide whether the cost savings is worth taking that risk.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:44 am

Thanks. For me, the non-manufacturer warranty adds other complications, so I'll skip.

But Waco, here it's supposedly not renewed, so a better deal.

If anyone knows more, or other anecdotal evidence, I'm still curious about the reliability NOS drives.
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:03 am

I wouldn't expect NOS that's been stored properly to act different than a brand new drive. I still have systems at work getting NOS replacements of drives that were last made almost 8 years ago (yes, very old systems).
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB NVME + 2 TB SATA + LSI (128x8) RAID
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52988
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:10 am

Waco wrote:
I wouldn't expect NOS that's been stored properly to act different than a brand new drive. I still have systems at work getting NOS replacements of drives that were last made almost 8 years ago (yes, very old systems).

Emphasis on "stored properly", and IMO the jury is still out on helium drives...
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Topic Author
Posts: 1255
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:44 am

Helium I wouldn't trust even bought fresh. :)

Difficult to know how it's stored, but yeah, I don't know if really to expect problems. On one hand I do have doubts about NOS, on the other, I've always used drives for far more. The oldest I regularly use is 9 years, and less regularly used are more than 10 years. These are actively used drives, with no special environmental conditions, in computer cases that are likely more permeable than anti-static bags in cardboard boxes.

I don't think the internet is full of anecdotes on drives failing after N years, so at least semi-actively used drives seem safe. But the mystery is longer-term static storage.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 52988
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:25 am

Drives which are in active use heat up, which raises the dewpoint, which should help drive off any moisture. I have no idea if this is a real factor in drive longevity or not, but it seems plausible for humid environments.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3045
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: HDDs from MD Tech and DBSKY on Amazon?

Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:30 am

just brew it! wrote:
Emphasis on "stored properly", and IMO the jury is still out on helium drives...

Agreed that helium drives are an unknown for long-term use.
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB NVME + 2 TB SATA + LSI (128x8) RAID
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests
GZIP: On