TR Forums

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9964/micr ... windows-10

http://arstechnica.com/information-tech ... indows-10/

Anyone technologically literate knows their explanation is nonsense. This is just another way to push their spyware reskin of 8.

I guess ill be buying a Broadwell or Broadwell-E CPU instead of Kaby Lake for my 2017 build.

I half expect Microsoft to come up with some new lie in the next few months so they can completely abandon 7 and 8.1.

Or you could completely switch over to Linux by then...

Lots of games need Direct X and cant be run in VMs well. Otherwise i would. Its still disgusting what Microsoft has become.

whm1974 wrote:

Or you could completely switch over to Linux by then...

Hey, if Linux devs want to fix the video driver situation, I might just switch. Almost everything else I run is compatible...

BlackDove wrote:

This is just another way to push their spyware reskin of 8.

Microsoft isn't spying on you anymore than Apple is, Goggle on the other hand.

Here we go again. The usual suspects are trying to turn routine diagnostic information into another manufactured privacy controversy over Windows 10. Don't fall for it. (PS: You won't believe what Apple's privacy policy says.)

Revealed! The crucial detail that Windows 10 privacy critics are missing

BlackDove wrote:
Lots of games need Direct X and cant be run in VMs well. Otherwise i would. Its still disgusting what Microsoft has become.

Hopefully usage of Vulkan will become widespread making games easier to port over to Linux.

A good question is why a company should somehow be expected to continue to support old products indefinitely. Because that is certainly not feasible. Of course, you are free to go elsewhere with your OS purchase if that doesn't work for you. Having to back-port stuff to older architectures might be quite costly in the long run, as well as might not support the same functionality at all, despite of that.

Now I haven't looked on Skylake to see if there is any features that actually make this a true issue with acceleration of certain technologies, the ars article certainly hints that Microsoft want you to think that, but still, indefinite support is not feasible. Now, can you boot the OS at all, you probably could, with unsupported.

Aphasia wrote:
A good question is why a company should somehow be expected to continue to support old products indefinitely. Because that is certainly not feasible.

Ten years max? Normally I would say 5 years, but mid range to high end systems now days could still be quite usable for ten with upgrades.

biffzinker wrote:

BlackDove wrote:

This is just another way to push their spyware reskin of 8.

Microsoft isn't spying on you anymore than Apple is, Goggle on the other hand.

Here we go again. The usual suspects are trying to turn routine diagnostic information into another manufactured privacy controversy over Windows 10. Don't fall for it. (PS: You won't believe what Apple's privacy policy says.)

Revealed! The crucial detail that Windows 10 privacy critics are missing

Riiiiiiiight, so when MS track everything you do it's not spying it's analytics but Google Analytics on the other hand is spying. Makes total sense.

What Google do may be creepy but at least you generally know the stuff you do offline purely on your own computer isn't being looked at. With analytics embedded in the OS there's nowhere to hide.

They really want people to use Windows 10, don't they?

And yet, this news affects me in exactly zero ways, as I do not have any of the new processors, and Windows 10 works with the old stuff. If I were considering a move to a more recent CPU, I'd probably have also swapped OSes.

I suspect this is more of a nudge for the enterprise.

OP, if DirectX 12 will ever be desired by you, Windows 10 may become a requirement.

cheesyking wrote:

biffzinker wrote:

BlackDove wrote:

This is just another way to push their spyware reskin of 8.

Microsoft isn't spying on you anymore than Apple is, Goggle on the other hand.

Here we go again. The usual suspects are trying to turn routine diagnostic information into another manufactured privacy controversy over Windows 10. Don't fall for it. (PS: You won't believe what Apple's privacy policy says.)

Revealed! The crucial detail that Windows 10 privacy critics are missing

Riiiiiiiight, so when MS track everything you do it's not spying it's analytics but Google Analytics on the other hand is spying. Makes total sense.

What Google do may be creepy but at least you generally know the stuff you do offline purely on your own computer isn't being looked at. With analytics embedded in the OS there's nowhere to hide.

Did you even read the piece he posted?

I knew it was a blackdove thread. Can't you find something better to do than the same thread 100 times?

Sweatshopking

Its brand new news. Tech Report hasnt even done an article on it yet and its a big deal to anyone planning on building a new PC. You may not care if you have to use a garbage reskin of 8.1 but some people do.

So much for supported until 2023 lol. Oh well, at least Broadwell is good.

Aphasia

They are kind of a monopoly. Yes monopolies only exist with the HELP of governments.

Also like i said, anyone techonogically literate, who studies CPU architectures especially, knows that Microsoft is outright full of **** abot this and its a totally invalid reason, fear mongering people toward Windows 10, the operating system with by far the LARGEST ATTACK SURFACE of ANY operating system.

Its also nonsense because 10 is basically 8 under the surface.

DrCR

I hope that all the games i want to play at least have a DX11 option. Most of what i play now is DX9.

People are crying because Microsoft isn't supporting the newest instructions found in current CPU platforms on their older OS.

Protip: They have been doing that kind of crap for a long time. If you want software support for legacy hardware platforms then I would suggest sticking with FOSS alternatives. They have a much better track record in this.

Motherboard makers can still issues patches for support. You're mad a for profit business is doing what's best for their business?!!? QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
You know it's security patches will 2023, right for 8.1?
what are you even talking about it being 8.1 under the hood? brah, you should look up the stuff you say.

monopolies exist for all kinds of reasons. brah, u sew cray cray
<3

whm1974 wrote:

Hopefully usage of Vulkan will become widespread making games easier to port over to Linux.

What makes you think Vulkan-enabled Linux drivers will be any less of a mess than the current OpenGL ones? OpenGL has been a standard for longer than DirectX has been around, and many game engines have supported it. The problem hasn't been the lack of a portable 3D API; the problem has been the spotty GPU support and installation difficulties of Linux GPU drivers.

sweatshopking wrote:

Motherboard makers can still issues patches for support. You're mad a for profit business is doing what's best for their business?!!? QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
You know it's security patches will 2023, right for 8.1?
what are you even talking about it being 8.1 under the hood? brah, you should look up the stuff you say.

monopolies exist for all kinds of reasons. brah, u sew cray cray
<3

Its basically the same operating system as 8.1. And they can only exiat with the help of governments. They can not exist in a free market.

Krogoth wrote:

Protip: They have been doing that kind of crap for a long time. If you want software support for legacy hardware platforms then I would suggest sticking with FOSS alternatives. They have a much better track record in this.

Yes, they do; but that's completely irrelevant to the thread. We're discussing the exact opposite: Legacy OS support for *new* hardware.

Try to get your 10-year-old copy of Debian or RHEL to play nice with devices released in the past year, and I can pretty much guarantee you it won't go well.

Even with the latest release it can be dicey. Driver support tends to lag a bit when new hardware debuts.

just brew it! wrote:
What makes you think Vulkan-enabled Linux drivers will be any less of a mess than the current OpenGL ones? OpenGL has been a standard for longer than DirectX has been around, and many game engines have supported it. The problem hasn't been the lack of a portable 3D API; the problem has been the spotty GPU support and installation difficulties of Linux GPU drivers.

Maybe I'm just being too hopeful that this will change,,,

just brew it! wrote:
Yes, they do; but that's completely irrelevant to the thread. We're discussing the exact opposite: Legacy OS support for *new* hardware.

It is not very realistic to expect vendors to support their products forever.

BlackDove wrote:

And they can only exiat with the help of governments. They can not exist in a free market.

OK. Neither can the shirt you're wearing: http://www.amazon.com/The-Travels-T-Shirt-Global-Economy/dp/0471648493

BlackDove wrote:

garbage reskin of 8.1

To be allowed continued use of the phrase "Re-skin of 8.1", from this point forward you must receive 1 hug from 1 human being in advance, per occurrence. You can even bank these, for your own convenience: Say, before creating your next thread, you can make sure in advance to receive 10-20 hugs from parents, friends, teachers, bank tellers, and the like, so you'll have plenty of headroom to reiterate your favorite phrases while selflessly pulling back the curtain on the dark world we live in.

BlackDove wrote:

Its basically the same operating system as 8.1.

No, no it's not. Just because there are a lot of similarities in the way they look does not mean they are "basically the same." If you're going to go there, why not just say it's Windows NT 4.0 reskinned? I'll tell you why...because it's a false statement.

BlackDove wrote:

And they can only exiat with the help of governments. They can not exist in a free market.

Yes they can. How does the government have any input on the goods and services that people purchase? Don't answer that...it was rhetorical and not something for your conspiracy theories. If I provide a product that the overwhelming majority of people prefer because the quality, usage, and design is better than anything else on the market in the same product category then I will end up with a monopoly in that product category. That's not illegal. Now if I find out someone else is attempting to create a better version of the same product and I use my market position to stifle competition and keep them from bringing that product to market...THAT is illegal. Having a monopoly in and of itself is not illegal, though. I wish people would stop talking about monopolies like they're inherently a bad thing.

Oh, this is so ungreat.

At home, I already have a Windows 8.1 Pro licence sitting on a shelf waiting for my next upgrade which is planned to be one of Broadwell-E, Kaby Lake or Summit Ridge with a USB 3.1 Gen 2 case and motherboard header ... and now I cannot use this OS unless I upgrade to Haswell-E or Broadwell?

Not content with trying to force me to break my own systems by "up"grading my machines to Windows 10 when the motherboard, card and software manufacturers don't support it, you're now going to force me to give up the 8.1 Pro licence I already paid for unless I use it on a pre-Skylake or pre-Bristol Ridge build???

W. T. F. Microsoft?

And at work I now have to plan for all the Skylake boxes we already paid for to be "up"graded to Windows 10 within the next 18 months??????

W. T. F.

I don't even

@Topinio -

OS licenses don't age like fine wine!

I think I've still got an unused Win 7 Pro license around here somewhere, but it'll probably end up getting installed on previous-gen hardware (e.g. an AMD FX-8320), so the CPU/chipset support issues shouldn't affect me.

BlackDove wrote:

...I half expect Microsoft to come up with some new lie in the next few months so they can completely abandon 7 and 8.1.

What's wrong with them trying something different this time around? Getting people off the old OS takes too long and causes Microsoft to have to support software long past its prime. This is an inefficient business model.

But I agree with your later comment that Linux is not a cure-all solution. Linux users are more and more robotically suggesting Linux whenever somebody has trouble with Windows, and this is not the answer for everybody either.

I will probably upgrade my tower to Windows 10 in the next month or two. I'm not THAT worried about Microsoft tracking me via my OS. They'd probably just get bored seeing that I'm reading about comparisons between CFL and LED light bulbs, how to solder a pot shaft onto a mainboard for a MIDI controller, my Steam Civilization V activity, my investment browsing activity, and the list of about a dozen 2nd amendment-related websites.

If anything, all of this will just make them hesitate before coming to visit my house!

The laptop seems fine since I disabled automatic updates via the Group Policy settings. I got tired of getting bogus graphic drivers being downloaded and installed...automatically. Oh yeah, and the automatic reboots. No thank you, that would just stop my F@H from running, maybe for whole days at a time while the computer waits for me to log on again.

? CPUs don't need OS support, they are backward compatible. And new instructions; I don't think there are any new registers to save on context switching? Worst case you'll be missing out on some power-saving features. If Intel feels like it they may provide a driver for versions of Windows that Microsoft won't support.

whm1974 wrote:

just brew it! wrote:
Yes, they do; but that's completely irrelevant to the thread. We're discussing the exact opposite: Legacy OS support for *new* hardware.

It is not very realistic to expect vendors to support their products forever.

Forever... No. For a lot longer than what windows does, absolutely. I've seen way to many products that have been "refreshed" for newer versions of Windows and there were zero hardware changes (Canon printers, scanners, sound cards, tv tuners, etc are guilty of this). They put out a "new" model with identical hardware and they simply put out drivers for that "new" identical model for the newer version of windows.

In linux land (and OS X) those devices are supported a hell of a lot longer (heck the newest Linux kernel still even supports the likes of the Gravis Ultrasound and no printer or scanner support has ever been purged).

just brew it! wrote:

OS licenses don't age like fine wine!

Fair enough, but for 20 years or so every new platform has launched with support from the OEMs (motherboard and desktop) for multiple versions of Windows, at least the current and previous versions and often more, so it shouldn't have been unreasonable to expect to be able to install 7 or 8.1 on a new build this year.

I am actually flabbergasted that Intel, AMD, Dell, HP, ASUS et al are actually going along with this, particularly the horribly shortened lifetime for Skylake systems (and will be making a call on Monday morning ) which have been bought (and built) with Windows 7 or 8.1 in good faith, with expected service lifetimes of up to 5 or 8 years respectively. How on earth they all think it's okay to retcon this expectation to under 2 years is beyond me.

curtisb wrote:
Having a monopoly in and of itself is not illegal, though. I wish people would stop talking about monopolies like they're inherently a bad thing.

Without strong laws to keep them in check, then yes they are are inherently a bad thing.

meerkt wrote:

? CPUs don't need OS support, they are backward compatible. And new instructions; I don't think there are any new registers to save on context switching?

Yeah, context switching is the biggest potential issue. If the underlying OS doesn't support the full register set, then any applications which attempt to use those unsupported registers will misbehave.