Personal computing discussed

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gladeromeo
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Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:02 am

hi, I recently bought new TV and i wanted to play games on it from pc trought HDMI but I noticed big latency around 200ms(tested). I first tought it was TV but i tested it over my laptop and it was around 30ms. Also when I turn on V-sync in games it lock me on 30fps again on laptop is locked to 60 (both 1080p). I have 2.0 HDMI and 1.4a on my Gpu and 1.3 on ma laptop so it should work on 1080p. I tryed to reinstal my graphic drivers but it didnt work. I have fx 6300 and xfx r9 380 (mb is gigabyte 970a- ud3p). Thanks
Last edited by Flying Fox on Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LostCat
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:32 am

Did you try the clean install option in the Custom Install of the drivers?
(Are you even getting the drivers direct from AMD? - http://support.amd.com/en-us )
Have you checked the TV for any sort of Game Mode options that could help with latency issues?
Have you ever updated your system UEFI?  Chipset drivers?  OS?
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gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:04 am

I fully uninstaled and againg installed drivers from amd site
and everything is up to date, tv supports game mode but is like 20 ms less so 180ms
and with laptop no game mode im getting 30 ms with on game mode 20
 
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:53 am

Maybe the PC GPU is running at the wrong resolution and the lag is due to the TV re-scaling and interpolating the image to fit the display. 200ms sounds like interpolation is enabled.
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gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 8:20 am

It is always running on 1080p even on my monitor and tv has Computer mode witch makes tv adapting to pc and lock all motion smooth or resolution scaling features in tv setting
s
 
meerkt
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:39 am

How do you measure the latency?
 
gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:51 am

http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html
just duplicate screen on windows between your monitor and tv
 
curtisb
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:12 am

This sounds like the desktop is running a 30Hz refresh rate and the laptop is running 60Hz. Is it a 4K TV?
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gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:14 am

Yes its 4k Tv philips 49pus6401
 
gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:15 am

But when im connected to TV and put rez to 720 its 60 with vsync
 
LostCat
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:36 pm

http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/49PUS6401_ ... ifications
Have you tried updating the TV firmware?  Using different HDMI inputs?  (From reading the manual it looks like 1 and 2 handle differently from 3 and 4.)

I don't really know if you can disable HDR support but HDR is a major source of input lag with some TVs, and last I read the 300 series cards did support it.
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curtisb
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:51 pm

gladeromeo wrote:
But when im connected to TV and put rez to 720 its 60 with vsync

Are you connecting the laptop and the desktop to the same input on the TV? For example, if the desktop is in HDMI3, are you also connecting the laptop to HDMI3? Are they running the same resolution?

EDIT: That TV can do 4K @ 60Hz on HDMI 1 & 2, but only 30Hz on HDMI 3 & 4, so it definitely matters where you're connecting the desktop if you're trying to run the desktop at 4K in games.
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gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:08 pm

I know i connected and laptop and desktop to hdmi 1 port on TV and i recieved automatic update 20.1.2017. so its up to date. I read somewhere about HDR on this TV but still cant find it. and about ports it does not matter bcs im running 1080p anyway. And If HDR were on it would be on on both desktop and laptop.
 
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 3:16 pm

So there are two things to check.

Some inputs on the TV have more lag than others. Test using the same input.
Some TV's perform post-processing on different signals (resolution and frequency). Ensure the PC and laptop are both identical in this regard.

In general, when connecting a PC to a TV, disable all scaling and processing options on the TV, and make sure the TV is set to 1:1 pixel mapping or "just scan" or "dot by dot" picture size.
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meerkt
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:17 pm

gladeromeo wrote:
http://tft.vanity.dk/inputlag.html
just duplicate screen on windows between your monitor and tv

I suspect this may not be so accurate. Did you check what you get with two computer monitors?
 
the
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:36 pm

TV's tend to do a lot of post processing of an input signal. Many of these are disable when using a 'game mode'. Most people will notice a shift in colors but generally it just disables the post processing (i.e. dithering on a 6 bit panel with an 8 bit per channel source). That Philips TV also has an ambient light mode which will also do some post processing for color matching. Similarly, many of these 'smart' TVs add additional latency for incorporating overlays (i.e. transparent menu systems) vs. what the native panel is capable of.

The other thing worth pointing out is that many TV's will include an HDMI switch internally to add more HDMI inputs. This explains some of the lag Crispy_ was mentioning.

Also you want to run at native resolution if possible to remove any lag from the TV's internal scalar. If you have a UHD TV (3840 x 2160 resolution) and feeding a 1080p signal to it, many TV's will attempt to do interpolation instead of simple pixel doubling as you think they would do. The result is lag.

Speaking of lag, that test you were doing would involve the TV's scalar if it was running at nonnative resolution. So if your laptop was 1080p and the TV at 3840 x 2160, it would expect higher latency on the TV.

Long story short, modern TVs are horrible with respect to input latency.
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meerkt
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:14 pm

TVs could be quicker but they're not horrible usually. Some are even <20ms (some 2014 and older models were quicker):
http://rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
Too bad the site doesn't explain the difference between their 4:4:4 and non-4:4:4 (4:2:0?) testing.
 
gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:00 pm

Guys, finaly found a solution. Problem was just Windows reinstalled it and now its ok about 30ms
btw thanks you all for trying to help me 
best regards :D
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:27 pm

gladeromeo wrote:
Guys, finaly found a solution. Problem was just Windows reinstalled it and now its ok about 30ms

What was "it" that Windows reinstalled? Drivers? App? Or what?
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:25 pm

I think he is saying he reinstalled Windows.
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gladeromeo
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:33 pm

Yea should sounded like this: Problem was just Windows, reinstalled it. ( i forgot ",")
:D
Yeah but prob some windows bug or something they are really glitch lately
 
Statix
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Thu Apr 02, 2020 5:19 am

I've been struggling with input lag for years now, with no resolution in sight. It comes and goes, but it's there 80% of the time. I suspect recent versions of piece-of-crap Windows (past half-decade) are performing some kind of scaling or processing to the display that I don't know about. I'll try reinstalling Windows again, but I doubt it will help.
Last edited by Statix on Thu Apr 02, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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meerkt
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Thu Apr 02, 2020 8:15 am

It's not Windows, at least no more than the "expected". It is, after all, the standard PC gaming platform.
Must be some software you have installed, or hardware.

What sort of external A/V hardware do you have? And any special internal hardware?
 
Statix
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:45 pm

Nah, nothing special other than what's listed in my signature.

Small update on my input lag situation, with which I've had a renewed vigor towards solving in recent months. I notice that the input lag goes away when I uninstall the Nvidia drivers (using DDU). As soon as I install the drivers, the input lag comes back. So it seems like the generic Microsoft display drivers have less input lag than the Nvidia ones.

Now, this in and if itself doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% one thing or the other. But it does points towards being a video output related issue, as opposed to a USB/mouse issue. As with any input lag, the root of the issue can be extremely elusive and maybe multi-factoral. Without being a software engineer, I can only guess that it's some kind of faulty integration or relationship between the monitor, Windows, the GPU, the video/HDMI output, the color format settings (RGB/YCBCR/8bpc vs 10bpc), any unnecessary display/GPU scaling... Any combination of the above. But at least I'm (probably) narrowing the issue down.

I read an interesting Reddit thread yesterday, where they found that newer versions of the Nvidia drivers had more input lag, and it was due to "support for Windows 10 April 2018 (Redstone 4)." Coincidentally, I believe that update for Windows was also when this Full-screen Optimizations "feature" was introduced; so this input lag I've been suffering with may well have something to do with that, or the faulty implementation thereof.

Reddit Thread: "PSA - All Nvidia graphics drivers after 391.35 add significant input lag in Borderless Window mode" (Search for it, as I can't post links).
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OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit v1909
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Statix
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sat Apr 11, 2020 4:48 pm

Update: I got positive results by forcing Windows 10 to run all games in full-screen exclusive mode/disabling full-screen optimizations with the following registry settings:

"GameDVR_Enabled"=0
"GameDVR_FSEBehaviorMode"=2
"GameDVR_HonorUserFSEBehaviorMode"=1
"GameDVR_DXGIHonorFSEWindowsCompatible"=1
"GameDVR_FSEBehavior"=2

After making these changes, restart the computer.

It seems the input lag issues are indeed multi-factoral, and this registry tweak at least resolves Windows 10-specific input lag issues. I do recall numerious articles and user reports about recent versions of Windows breaking fullscreen exclusive mode. I tried using the "Disable Full-screen Optimizations" option in the game's compatibility settings, but that didn't seem effective, and seemed to introduce it's own input lag side effects. For now, I leave all .exe compatibility settings alone and at default, and just use this these registry settings. Just these registry tweaks alone seem effective in disabling full-screen optimizations OS-wide in Windows 10.

I'm still investigating my inconsistent video output/HDMI/GPU driver-related input lag, and I'll update on that later on after further investigation.
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OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit v1909
Display: Philips Momentum 436M6VBPAB
 
Topinio
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Re: Big HDMI latency

Sat Apr 11, 2020 5:16 pm

Holy thread necro, Batman!
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