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derFunkenstein
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:44 am

The problem with Windows 10 S Mode isn't that it's locked to the store. It's that it can only download UWP apps from the store. There are plenty of listings for other apps that run on the older APIs but S Mode blocks all that.
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sweatshopking
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:06 pm

I guess you ditched apple since they require browsers to use the safari engine? any browser can come to windows S, they just have to use the edge engine, in an identical policy to apple. So, hypocrisy?

"It's that it can only download UWP apps from the store."

It can be configured to use any corporate or education distribution system of UWP apps IIRC, unless that's a recent change i missed.

to be clear, i also think the store has major issues. I get numerous apps through it, but it needs more. i don't think it'll survive though generally, and think windows as an operating system will die. I think that's mostly because nerds resist everything, even when it's good for them. Had people encouraged the use of the store, as they did on phones, despite the lack of quality apps initially available we'd be in a different position. Had they not hypocritically gone on about privacy intrusions being SO OMG terrible in a million forum posts sent from vastly less private android phones we would probably have seen better windows 10 growth, which benefits everyone who doesn't like to spend their time removing viruses and fixing crap from older operating systems.Most nerds rage about crap that most people don't care about, and then they discourage those who would benefit from them from using them. S would work great for my grandmother. She wouldn't need to worry about viruses, system rot, or other problems with windows, nor would she have to spend time learning a new OS environment. She doesn't need steam, photoshop or a great many other things this thread has banged on about. So would a windows on Arm pc. 30 days of standby, light, thin, and secure. she'd also like the built in LTE since she doesn't get decent internet in her rural home. Would I want either? Probably not. But, those who would benefit will be denied because users like EU are so vocal and believe their use case is the only one that matters.
 
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:21 pm

Dude, maybe they just screwed up. It happens. There's plenty of examples where in retrospect the reasoning of one person or another(if not many people) at some megacorp obviously went off the rails and landed them in a bad spot.

As for viruses and system rot, S Mode isn't going to make Windows immune to that. I don't think any kind of similar idea on any operating system would. The user has always been the weakest link in the chain when it comes to security.
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:55 pm

End User wrote:
As a PC gamer I view the Windows Store with utter contempt. Any version of Windows prevents the installation of Steam/Uplay/Origin/etc should be ignored and mocked.

Talking about 10 S in the context of a gaming machine is missing the boat by about fifty miles. Of course you wouldn't install it on a gaming machine. Nobody would.

Would I use it on my non gaming laptops? Definitely. Because I have other machines for gaming. I might convert my old laptop now that I'm not using it for as much.
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DancinJack
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:01 pm

LostCat wrote:
End User wrote:
As a PC gamer I view the Windows Store with utter contempt. Any version of Windows prevents the installation of Steam/Uplay/Origin/etc should be ignored and mocked.

Talking about 10 S in the context of a gaming machine is missing the boat by about fifty miles. Of course you wouldn't install it on a gaming machine. Nobody would.

Would I use it on my non gaming laptops? Definitely. Because I have other machines for gaming. I might convert my old laptop now that I'm not using it for as much.

Yeah, I think he understands that. Though what he's referring to is your assertion that gaming is something the Windows Store does well. I don't think most people would agree with you considering it's lack of the services already stated.

I think most people here are on the same page. The Windows Store as it is right now is just not sufficient for most people in this thread. That's fine, but if Windows wants to keep pushing that crap they need to REALLY do something about it.
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LostCat
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:56 pm

DancinJack wrote:
Yeah, I think he understands that. Though what he's referring to is your assertion that gaming is something the Windows Store does well. I don't think most people would agree with you considering it's lack of the services already stated.

It does it well in context. I wouldn't claim every game is on there or ever will be. And naturally it doesn't work for distribution platforms that install win32 games.

These days though there are quite a few AAA games on there, and that's something compared to 2016 or before.

I'm just very much used to people telling me the Store will never have anything in it and blah blah blah and obviously they were just as full of crap then as they are now.
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:51 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
Ben Funk is on point.

/flex

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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:39 am

sweatshopking wrote:
But, those who would benefit will be denied because users like EU are so vocal and believe their use case is the only one that matters.

Only you would try and sell a product which has the worst app store on the market today.


sweatshopking wrote:
S would work great for my grandmother.

I guess you don't like your grandmother very much. For goodness sake, get her an iPad or a Chromebook.


sweatshopking wrote:
I guess you ditched apple since they require browsers to use the safari engine? any browser can come to windows S, they just have to use the edge engine, in an identical policy to apple. So, hypocrisy?

Your FUD engine is in high gear I see.

Edge flat out sucks. Therefore any Edge only flavour of Windows flat out sucks.

Apple allows for 3rd party app installs under macOS so there is absolutely nothing to prevent an end user from installing the full version of Chrome and/or Firefox onto any macOS system.

Apple has the decency to supply iOS with a fantastic browser so I can live without a native engine flavour of Chrome/Firefox on iOS.
 
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:52 am

LostCat wrote:
I might convert my old laptop now that I'm not using it for as much.

What are the specs of that laptop?
 
sweatshopking
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:14 am

My grandmother uses her laptop for two things
Netflix and writing.
Let me know when an iPad gets a real keyboard or a Chromebook gets full office.
Until that happens both those machines are less capable for her use. Plus, she already has a Windows laptop, as do most people. Buying another device is a ridiculous suggestion, when this is free and solves the problems.
 
DancinJack
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:27 am

sweatshopking wrote:
My grandmother uses her laptop for two things
Netflix and writing.
Let me know when an iPad gets a real keyboard or a Chromebook gets full office.
Until that happens both those machines are less capable for her use. Plus, she already has a Windows laptop, as do most people. Buying another device is a ridiculous suggestion, when this is free and solves the problems.

I mean, maybe your grandmother writes insanely complex Word documents or something, but if not I suspect Google Docs would work for her. I'm not saying she should buy a Chromebook, but your "gets full office" requirement seems moot for just "writing."
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sweatshopking
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:59 am

She uses a number of office products, including publisher. Google docs is a sad replacement for word. It's the "Windows store" of office software. You also retain ownership of your stuff made with word. You don't with google docs last i checked.
 
DancinJack
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:03 pm

sweatshopking wrote:
She uses a number of office products, including publisher. Google docs is a sad replacement for word. It's the "Windows store" of office software. You also retain ownership of your stuff made with word. You don't with google docs last i checked.

Yes, it is SUPER tough to save things to your hard drive from Google Docs. /s

Google Docs is one million times better at being office software than the Windows Store is of providing a real app distribution service. Don't even joke.
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LostCat
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:04 pm

End User wrote:
Edge flat out sucks. Therefore any Edge only flavour of Windows flat out sucks.

Clearly you believe that so it's not worth arguing, but it's quite usable these days. I just have some edge (...) cases that don't like it as much.

But I do use it regularly when I'm running games in Chrome.
What are the specs of that laptop?

FX-7500 with 6 gigs of RAM and a 64GB SSD. It's mostly offline since I got this one.
Last edited by LostCat on Mon Mar 12, 2018 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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sweatshopking
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:34 am

DancinJack wrote:
Yes, it is SUPER tough to save things to your hard drive from Google Docs. /s

Google Docs is one million times better at being office software than the Windows Store is of providing a real app distribution service. Don't even joke.

Your confusing "ownership" with "store locally"
Google owns stuff made or stored on their products, just like fb owns stuff put on there. For some people that's a deal breaker.

Sure, it is better. It's still a poor offering in comparison to real ms office.
 
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:40 am

sweatshopking wrote:
Your confusing "ownership" with "store locally"
Google owns stuff made or stored on their products, just like fb owns stuff put on there. For some people that's a deal breaker.

Sure, it is better. It's still a poor offering in comparison to real ms office.

1. While I admit I was under the impression that is what you meant, I'm not confused about owning vs storing locally.
2. You're
3. Google only "owns" your content to make their service better. I'm not really sure what your issue is with the way they operate the service. Are you worried Google is going to publish your grandmother's writings and take credit? https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies ... oc-content

I never said Google Docs was the office software messiah. I only suggested Google Docs before you had provided all the information about what your grandmother used her office software for. Google Docs works perfectly fine if you know the limitations. I never said it was a replacement for all the things MS Office can do.

The point still stands that the MS Store needs SO MUCH more content than it currently holds and Microsoft needs to continue working to get devs in there. IMO that would go a long way to letting way more people use S mode without issue.
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sweatshopking
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:55 pm

I dont personally worry much about googles terms, but to be clear, that is a much larger privacy breach than anything with Windows. Some people do worry about those kinds of agreements.

Thanks for the grammar tip. I really had no idea which was which. :roll:

Sure, google docs works fine for somebody who doesn't have ms office. Outside of the most basic typing, it's a poor substitute.

No beef with your Windows store complaints, though i think they're overblown for the majority of users. Id like to see more content there too.
 
End User
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:01 am

S (Streamlined) mode is a dead end for me as a power user (gaming/sys admin) or anyone that wants to install a mouse or printer driver.

Watch/listen to the latest What The Tech Podcast starting at the 5 min mark.
Last edited by End User on Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
End User
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:05 am

LostCat wrote:
FX-7500 with 6 gigs of RAM and a 64GB SSD.

That was underpowered when it was new although it is still way better than the upcoming Windows 10 on ARM laptops.
 
LostCat
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:09 pm

End User wrote:
That was underpowered when it was new although it is still way better than the upcoming Windows 10 on ARM laptops.

When it was new it had a better IGP than 90% of cheap laptops (if not 100%.) It's still a great build for casual use. The screen sucks, but that was normal.
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End User
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:14 pm

sweatshopking wrote:
Let me know when an iPad gets a real keyboard

I'm using a Microsoft Surface Keyboard with mine (in addition to the awesome near full-size Apple keyboard for the iPad Pro):

Image


sweatshopking wrote:
or a Chromebook gets full office.

Which features of Word can your grandmother not do without?

The Google Suite of apps is more than enough for the vast majority of consumer users.

Chromebooks are starting to support Android apps so Microsoft Office for Android is available to those users.
Last edited by End User on Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
End User
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:18 pm

LostCat wrote:
End User wrote:
That was underpowered when it was new although it is still way better than the upcoming Windows 10 on ARM laptops.

When it was new it had a better IGP than 90% of cheap laptops (if not 100%.) It's still a great build for casual use. The screen sucks, but that was normal.

Cinebench R15 scores of 55 (single) and 153 (multi).

I'd still take it over a Windows 10 ARM laptop. Where are those BTW? They should have shipped by now. Hmmmmmm.
 
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:23 pm

End User wrote:
Which features of Word can your grandmother not do without?

This is not a features issue, this is a UI issue. Having tended to an 80-something mother-in-law, the UI must not only be "stable", but MUST NEVER CHANGE to make the user experience the least possibly painful for the intended user.

SSK would likely do better to find a copy of Office 97, ditch the ribbon, and set Grammy up for life on something that will never change and will not require retraining.

Someday, when you're eating a pureed hamburger through a straw, you'll grok this.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
End User
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:00 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
Which features of Word can your grandmother not do without?

This is not a features issue, this is a UI issue. Having tended to an 80-something mother-in-law, the UI must not only be "stable", but MUST NEVER CHANGE to make the user experience the least possibly painful for the intended user.

SSK would likely do better to find a copy of Office 97, ditch the ribbon, and set Grammy up for life on something that will never change and will not require retraining.

Someday, when you're eating a pureed hamburger through a straw, you'll grok this.

My Dad is 92 so I’m familiar with the challenges that face the elderly.

I’m old enough to be a grandfather. I’m not sure what that has to do with how well someone deals with computing devices. Everyone is different. Age means nothing. Experience is everything.
 
End User
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:02 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
SSK would likely do better to find a copy of Office 97

Kiss S mode goodbye. That won’t please SSK.

I think he gets his life guidance from Joe B’s twitter feed.


Captain Ned wrote:
Someday, when you're eating a pureed hamburger through a straw, you'll grok this.

When that day comes (soon, so very soon) I sure as heck won’t be pining for Office 97.
 
LostCat
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:41 am

End User wrote:
Cinebench R15 scores of 55 (single) and 153 (multi).

I'm sure I'll keep that in mind back in early 2015 when I bought it.

Not that Cinebench numbers have ever meant anything to me, heh.
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:20 am

End User wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Someday, when you're eating a pureed hamburger through a straw, you'll grok this.

When that day comes (soon, so very soon) I sure as heck won’t be pining for Office 97.

LibreOffice is the obvious solution for anyone worried about confusing UI changes. They haven't made any substantial changes to the UI since... what? The Office 97 days? :wink:
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
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Re: Microsoft confirms it’s already cancelling its newest version of Windows

Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:04 pm

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Someday, when you're eating a pureed hamburger through a straw, you'll grok this.

When that day comes (soon, so very soon) I sure as heck won’t be pining for Office 97.

LibreOffice is the obvious solution for anyone worried about confusing UI changes. They haven't made any substantial changes to the UI since... what? The Office 97 days? :wink:

Is LibreOffice available via the Windows Store? :P
 

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