TR Forums

Waco wrote:

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Indeed, but a great many of us here can. We really, really can.

just brew it! wrote:

Ryu Connor wrote:

Meerkt has likely done this, he's fairly technical, it aids him in his adventures.

This just struck me as insanely funny for some reason. Yes, I'd say many of us embark on "technical adventures" from time to time...

(My day job probably qualifies too...)

Yeah, I immediately thought of this, which typically leads to Smaug the Magic Smoke.

Ryu Connor wrote:

churin wrote:

Thank you all for your replies.

I tried the above suggestion and got "Boot files successfully created" message after executing the suggested command. But the Windows 10 is still no boot.
This is a desirable solution if it works since it avoid wiping out installed application softwares. Any further suggestions?

Hmm. I think I know what's happening. I'm guessing your system is using UEFI boot, GPT partitions, and your C: drive is NTFS. That won't work, winload.efi can't launch from NTFS.

Boot into WindowsPE
Use Diskpart to shrink the partition by 100MB.
Create a 100MB EFI System Partition using Diskpart.
Format it in FAT32.
Assign a drive letter
Run the bcdboot command.

One thing I forgot to mention when I replied to your post: The WinPE did not boot from the machine where it was created using a working W10 system. I know by experience, this machine does not allow GPT to boot.

I have another machine which appears to have UEFI, tried. and found it to boot the WinPE. I carried out what you suggested on the machine. But the result was that the problem system did not boot on either machine.

I wonder why the partition for the WinPE is GPT even it was created on BIOS machine not UEFI.
Motherboards involved are GA-97A-UD3 and GA-970A-D3. The spec said both come with Hybrid EFI. The WinPE was created on the former but could boot only from the latter.

You've probably already spent more time trying to repair it than it would've taken you to wipe it and start over.

just brew it! wrote:

You've probably already spent more time trying to repair it than it would've taken you to wipe it and start over.

Your comment is generally speaking vary valid.
But, my objective for creating this thread is to find out if there is any way to reset the system which does not boot. I am fully aware clean-install is very close to resetting system.

There is one reply post which indicates that it may be repaired instead of reset. This is the reason why I am pursuing that suggestion.

By now I have done just as you suggested but if there is a way to avoid reinstalling apps, then I would very much like to know how.

DancinJack wrote:

Waco wrote:

Reinstall from scratch. It's the easiest method to ensure you don't have trouble in the future. Also, stop screwing around with things you don't understand unless you have a good backup strategy first.

The reason I have suggested this multiple times now is the OP deleted the system and recovery partitions not knowing what was going on with them. I just don't see how diving into diskpart, cloning, and recreating partitions is a good idea in this case.

Anyway, obviously, I agree with you Waco. Just reinstall clean and be done with it.

just gonna quote this again.

How did you originally install Windows on that machine? I imagine if you back up your C: partition, then re-doing the original install procedure will re-create the hidden system partition along with a C: that you can restore your backup to if you'd rather not re-install all your apps and reconfigure your settings one by one.

jihadjoe wrote:

How did you originally install Windows on that machine?

It was several months ago and I do not remember how. There appears to be two ways of clean-install with two different end results. If you specify partition size, installer creates extra small partition AHEAD of the main partition and places system file on the extra partition. If you create a partition before launching installer and pick that partition, then no extra partition is created. Is there any other way for clean install?

I imagine if you back up your C: partition, then re-doing the original install procedure will re-create the hidden system partition along with a C: that you can restore your backup to if you'd rather not re-install all your apps and reconfigure your settings one by one.

The above is valid only if the partition referred to as "hidden system partition" is indeed the system partition. Isn't system partition placed ahead of a main partition? Note that the partition I deleted was right side of the main partition as shown on disk management graphic.

churin wrote:

jihadjoe wrote:

How did you originally install Windows on that machine?

It was several months ago and I do not remember how. There appears to be two ways of clean-install with two different end results. If you specify partition size, installer creates extra small partition AHEAD of the main partition and places system file on the extra partition. If you create a partition before launching installer and pick that partition, then no extra partition is created. Is there any other way for clean install?

I imagine if you back up your C: partition, then re-doing the original install procedure will re-create the hidden system partition along with a C: that you can restore your backup to if you'd rather not re-install all your apps and reconfigure your settings one by one.

The above is valid only if the partition referred to as "hidden system partition" is indeed the system partition. Isn't system partition placed ahead of a main partition? Note that the partition I deleted was right side of the main partition as shown on disk management graphic.

It probably put it after the main partition because you told it to install to a pre-existing partition at the beginning of the disk (so it had no choice).

just brew it! wrote:

churin wrote:

jihadjoe wrote:

How did you originally install Windows on that machine?

It was several months ago and I do not remember how. There appears to be two ways of clean-install with two different end results. If you specify partition size, installer creates extra small partition AHEAD of the main partition and places system file on the extra partition. If you create a partition before launching installer and pick that partition, then no extra partition is created. Is there any other way for clean install?

I imagine if you back up your C: partition, then re-doing the original install procedure will re-create the hidden system partition along with a C: that you can restore your backup to if you'd rather not re-install all your apps and reconfigure your settings one by one.

The above is valid only if the partition referred to as "hidden system partition" is indeed the system partition. Isn't system partition placed ahead of a main partition? Note that the partition I deleted was right side of the main partition as shown on disk management graphic.

It probably put it after the main partition because you told it to install to a pre-existing partition at the beginning of the disk (so it had no choice).

This sounds like the system files must be placed on a partition other than the main partition, but that does not seems true. As I stated above, installer if told to install on a pre-existing partition, does not create any new partition. Even when an extra partition is created because there is no pre-existing partition, placing system files can be avoided by deleting the extra partition before installation begins.

Why did it create the extra partition then? What you're saying seems to contradict what actually happened.

I clean installed W10 Pro-v.1607 on 100GB partition in 250GB SSD. I do not remember whether the partition was created before the installation or during the installation.

The partition you are referring to must be that mentioned in my above post. The partition I meant was a main partition which could be created before launching installer or one which installer was let create. It is not the 450MB partition I deleted.

churin wrote:

One thing I forgot to mention when I replied to your post: The WinPE did not boot from the machine where it was created using a working W10 system. I know by experience, this machine does not allow GPT to boot.

I have another machine which appears to have UEFI, tried. and found it to boot the WinPE. I carried out what you suggested on the machine. But the result was that the problem system did not boot on either machine.

I wonder why the partition for the WinPE is GPT even it was created on BIOS machine not UEFI.
Motherboards involved are GA-97A-UD3 and GA-970A-D3. The spec said both come with Hybrid EFI. The WinPE was created on the former but could boot only from the latter.

WinPE can be built to only boot GPT, MBR, or both.

If you use a WinPE that boots MBR, you can't rebuild a GPT boot.
If you use a WinPE that boot GPT, you can't rebuilt an MBR boot.
If you use a WinPE that can boot both, you must boot from the correct option to make the repair.

Yan wrote:

I've certainly forced Windows 7 to use a single partition, by partitioning first and then telling Windows to install in that partition. This was with BIOS/MBR, though.

That makes sense, and I forgot about it entirely. I haven't installed Windows in BIOS mode for years. BIOS/MBR installation doesn't require an additional partition.

EFI has been solid for 15+ years now, so I'm honestly surprised anyone uses BIOS anymore. It offers nothing aside from compatibility with ancient hardware--most of which won't run under a modern OS anyway.

Ryu Connor wrote:

Diskpart can create an MBR disk that is a singular giant partition. You can then direct the installer to place Windows on your created partition. This will install Windows without creating a system partition (boot files) or a recovery partition (winre).

I forgot about MBR installations. EFI requires GPT for Windows, which does require at least one partition. I haven't used BIOS mode for a long time.

The continued use of BIOS kind of threw me. I wouldn't have expected people on a tech forum to use anything that outdated. Any peripheral cards that would have required BIOS compatibility are virtually guaranteed to lack support for Win 7/8/10.

TheRazorsEdge wrote:

EFI has been solid for 15+ years now, so I'm honestly surprised anyone uses BIOS anymore. It offers nothing aside from compatibility with ancient hardware--most of which won't run under a modern OS anyway.

The spec's been mostly stable for nearly that long, but actual implementations that don't suck didn't become common until much later.

just brew it! wrote:

The spec's been mostly stable for nearly that long, but actual implementations that don't suck didn't become common until much later.

The cutover from 32- to 64-bit processors is about it. So 10 years, maybe a little more. They all supported EFI out of the box, but there was still the question of peripheral device support.

Then Vista/7 came along, and Microsoft broke legacy compatibility pretty hard. There isn't much reason to run BIOS on anything built for Win7+.

TheRazorsEdge wrote:

Then Vista/7 came along, and Microsoft broke legacy compatibility pretty hard. There isn't much reason to run BIOS on anything built for Win7+.

Unless, of course, you started a Windows 7 install on a legacy platform and upgraded it to Windows 10 on a newer platform. My personal machine at home still boots via legacy mode simply because MS couldn't get the upgrade process correct for the transition. Someday I'll reinstall from scratch, but that day isn't today.

Waco wrote:

Unless, of course, you started a Windows 7 install on a legacy platform and upgraded it to Windows 10 on a newer platform. My personal machine at home still boots via legacy mode simply because MS couldn't get the upgrade process correct for the transition. Someday I'll reinstall from scratch, but that day isn't today.

Yeah, this was exactly the situation with my old gaming computer up until I replaced it.

As an aside, I actually tried moving the installation with the usual tricks to the new gaming computer (EFI all the way), knowing full well I'd almost certainly have to buy a new license. Even after doing that, and getting everything else to work, it just wouldn't activate. Microsoft tech support was sort of flummoxed too, but before it escalated into multiple calls with ever more insanity, I just said "look, I don't even know why I tried to do this. I'll just reinstall from scratch."

And so I did.

The old computer is still booting from old-style BIOS with the original image. It's going to be handed off to someone or other shortly.

Waco wrote:

TheRazorsEdge wrote:

Then Vista/7 came along, and Microsoft broke legacy compatibility pretty hard. There isn't much reason to run BIOS on anything built for Win7+.

Unless, of course, you started a Windows 7 install on a legacy platform and upgraded it to Windows 10 on a newer platform. My personal machine at home still boots via legacy mode simply because MS couldn't get the upgrade process correct for the transition. Someday I'll reinstall from scratch, but that day isn't today.

In the latest version of windows 10 there is now a mbr2gpt tool and there are directions for how to convert legacy boot to eufi or secure boot using that tool.
I haven't tried it yet but it sounds quick and easy.

Aranarth wrote:

In the latest version of windows 10 there is now a mbr2gpt tool and there are directions for how to convert legacy boot to eufi or secure boot using that tool.
I haven't tried it yet but it sounds quick and easy.

What isn't broken doesn't need fixing. If I have to reinstall for some reason I'll go through the process, but for now, it's fine as it sits. This install has migrated from Vista -> 7 -> 10. I have some pride in the fact that it still works properly!

Ryu Connor wrote:

churin wrote:

One thing I forgot to mention when I replied to your post: The WinPE did not boot from the machine where it was created using a working W10 system. I know by experience, this machine does not allow GPT to boot.

I have another machine which appears to have UEFI, tried. and found it to boot the WinPE. I carried out what you suggested on the machine. But the result was that the problem system did not boot on either machine.

I wonder why the partition for the WinPE is GPT even it was created on BIOS machine not UEFI.
Motherboards involved are GA-97A-UD3 and GA-970A-D3. The spec said both come with Hybrid EFI. The WinPE was created on the former but could boot only from the latter.

WinPE can be built to only boot GPT, MBR, or both.

If you use a WinPE that boots MBR, you can't rebuild a GPT boot.
If you use a WinPE that boot GPT, you can't rebuilt an MBR boot.
If you use a WinPE that can boot both, you must boot from the correct option to make the repair.

I created another bootable WinPE USB on GA-97A-UD3 and found it boot on either of the motherboards. The spec says both mobos have Hybrid EFI but one comes with MBR interface and another with UEFI interface. I wonder why I did not see any option to select GPT or MBR when booting the WinPE.

churin wrote:

I created another bootable WinPE USB on GA-97A-UD3 and found it boot on either of the motherboards. The spec says both mobos have Hybrid EFI but one comes with MBR interface and another with UEFI interface. I wonder why I did not see any option to select GPT or MBR when booting the WinPE.

Each BIOS/UEFI/Firmware has a different approach to this. If the firmware allows you to pick what device to boot from, you'll sometimes find the thumb drive or optical disc with WinPE on it has two entries listed, one marked UEFI and one not. The former is GPT the latter is MBR. Having the correct firmware options enabled also influence these outcomes.

FWIW, I have seen my IT peers and students struggle with all this as well. It's not a well documented, understood, or explained situation in IT. I decided I wanted a UEFI/GPT boot in Windows 7 years ago (when it was just getting support, but still super niche) and it took me going on an adventure to figure all this mess out.

Yeah, for a "standard", UEFI doesn't seem to have helped much with providing a consistent way to do things.

It certainly hasn't made my day job or personal tech hobby/obsession any easier.

My adventure with UEFI booting Linux from a software RAID-1 array (first attempted ~5 years ago) was probably comparably... "educational".

Seems I have the same issue with OP. I am trying to boot into a UEFI based computer with the reset disk. but no account was found on the computer as well as OS.

alexanoin wrote:

Seems I have the same issue with OP. I am trying to boot into a UEFI based computer with the reset disk. but no account was found on the computer as well as OS.

Please start a new topic.

As was said the first time, "You're gonna need to provide a lot more info about the circumstances and symptoms of this situation, unless you want us to just tell you to do a full OS reinstall from scratch".

The issue I worked through this weekend is somewhat related to the OP's topic but feel free to move to another thread if needed. After the latest incremental Win10 v1803 update my OS drive failed to boot and was stuck on the boot screen with the circle spinning to no end. So I tried booting two of my backup OS clone drives and no luck with either. Both crashed to the blue screen with the stop-code error "inaccessible boot device." So after wasting a day troubleshooting with recovery boot drives and resetting Win 10 (which went back to the same problem with the latest 1803 update) I finally found a blogger who had the same issue with similar hardware as mine (MSI motherboard and 6850K CPU). I needed a BIOS update from MSI to address the security microcode vulnerability. Flashed it to my motherboard and my primary OS drive is working fine now but I'm still trying to figure why my OS clone drives are not booting up (even after the primary was fixed) and still getting the same "inaccessible boot device" error. I use Casper cloning so I will try another software cloning tool and see what happens. I think there is some kind of boot partition issue happening on this latest update?

PS-It was the Win10v1803 update KB4100347 that started the boot up problems for me. Maybe it is a microcode-specific issue to certain CPU/mobo combos because I have three other family members with Win10 PCs that updated OK?