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olegtf
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W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:19 pm

... just asking if anyone have any fresh ideas. 19 machines, all but 3 running W7 x64 Ultimate, with shared drives/ folders. New W10 ASUS T100TAF can access shares on only 7 computers. Permissions, restrictions and users all the same everywhere. T450S with W10 has no problems accessing and mapping drives or network printers... any suggestions will be appreciated.
 
TheRazorsEdge
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:41 pm

Are the computers in a domain or workgroup?

Are all Windows 10 machines the same build? (Run winver to see the current build, e.g., 1709.)

Are the machines wired, wireless, or a mix?

If you review your network properties on the T100TAF and the affected machines, do they all recognize the network as private/home/office/domain, or do they see it as public or unknown?

Are the system clocks within 5 minutes of each other (with the correct date and time zone)?

What error message do you get when trying to access the share? What error appears in the System logs?
 
Takeshi7
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:43 pm

I had a problem with a computer not being able to find my NAS and I used this video to solve it: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-acce ... windows-10

I had to enable SMB1.0 support. apparently Microsoft disabled it by default in one of their recent Windows 10 updates as a security risk.
 
TheRazorsEdge
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:14 pm

Takeshi7 wrote:
I had to enable SMB1.0 support. apparently Microsoft disabled it by default in one of their recent Windows 10 updates as a security risk.


Windows 7 supports SMB 2, so there should be no reason to use it aside from compatibility with legacy devices.

Even Mac and Linux support SMB 2 these days.
 
bthylafh
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:30 pm

TheRazorsEdge wrote:
Takeshi7 wrote:
I had to enable SMB1.0 support. apparently Microsoft disabled it by default in one of their recent Windows 10 updates as a security risk.


Windows 7 supports SMB 2, so there should be no reason to use it aside from compatibility with legacy devices.

Even Mac and Linux support SMB 2 these days.


These days Linux (Samba) supports the latest SMBv3_11 if you have a new enough version. I'm using it on my Ubuntu 18.04 fileserver with two Win10 clients.

Back to OP's question: check group policy to verify that the problem machine isn't requiring things like signing the SMB traffic that the other machines don't demand.
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olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 pm

Takeshi7 wrote:
I had a problem with a computer not being able to find my NAS and I used this video to solve it: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-acce ... windows-10

I had to enable SMB1.0 support. apparently Microsoft disabled it by default in one of their recent Windows 10 updates as a security risk.


...enabled by default.
 
olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:07 pm

TheRazorsEdge wrote:
Are the computers in a domain or workgroup?

Are all Windows 10 machines the same build? (Run winver to see the current build, e.g., 1709.)

Are the machines wired, wireless, or a mix?

If you review your network properties on the T100TAF and the affected machines, do they all recognize the network as private/home/office/domain, or do they see it as public or unknown?

Are the system clocks within 5 minutes of each other (with the correct date and time zone)?

What error message do you get when trying to access the share? What error appears in the System logs?



- all win 10 right now 1803
- Everything on the same workgroup
- tried wired, wireless and mixed configurations with exactly the same results
- Private
- "Windows cannot access \\machine_name
Check the spelling of the name. Otherwise there might be problem with your network. to try to identify and resolve network problems, click Diagnose.
Error code 0x80070035
The network path was not found."
 
olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:14 pm

bthylafh wrote:

Back to OP's question: check group policy to verify that the problem machine isn't requiring things like signing the SMB traffic that the other machines don't demand.

gpsc.msc is missing will update after install completion. Scratch that, the answer is no. Identical settings on each problematic and non problematic machines.
 
bthylafh
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:47 pm

Try getting on the problem machine and accessing a box it doesn't like with its IP address instead of the hostname. You might be having DNS problems.
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olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:50 pm

bthylafh wrote:
Try getting on the problem machine and accessing a box it doesn't like with its IP address instead of the hostname. You might be having DNS problems.

... it was the very first thing i've done, especially considering everything here static. DNS flushed too, each machine and router...
 
bthylafh
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:15 am

How troublesome will it be to do a clean reinstall on the problem computer? You won't find the cause but it will probably save you a good deal of time and aggravation.
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TheRazorsEdge
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:31 am

bthylafh wrote:
Try getting on the problem machine and accessing a box it doesn't like with its IP address instead of the hostname. You might be having DNS problems.


This is most likely. That error means the client couldn't resolve either the host or share part of the UNC. If it works with IP_address\share_name then you know it is DNS.

On the other hand, if fails with the IP address, then you know it's caused by the share name in the UNC. Since other machines can access the same share, we know the share is online. At that point, I'd start suspecting a permissions issue (with access-based enumeration, permissions issues look like path issues).

I've had a domain at home for a while now, so I'm not 100% on how workgroup and HomeGroup permissions work these days. I know there have been a lot of changes under hood, pretty much constantly from the WinXP era to the present.

Edit: Another thing to try... Remove antivirus and firewall from both endpoints. Those can cause connection and authentication failures, sometimes even when they're "disabled".
 
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:43 am

If it was me I would recreate the shares that don't work on some machines.
I would delete the shares and then during recreation check the share permissions and the local permissions as well for your groups and or accounts.
If the share is by group then make sure individuals are in the proper groups.
It may be that the machines that work have cached credentials that the new ones that don't are missing them.

The other thing to try is to login to the same machine with the issue connecting trying a different known working account.
If the account works then you know where the issue is.
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olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:54 pm

bthylafh wrote:
How troublesome will it be to do a clean reinstall on the problem computer? You won't find the cause but it will probably save you a good deal of time and aggravation.



going on 7th one... as of now, still problem persists. Some shares accessible, some not. everything is visible in "Network" thus DNS working, Before wiping out last installation I was stonewalled by the policy or policies overlapping - In other words rules from (disabled) "domain" which I don't have, still affecting networking credentials on "private" and public, and so on. One of the messages I got that windows does see shares but unable to connect to the shared resources. Checked port 455 - everything was fine. Well, as I said , clean install in progress as of now - we'll see results in a few... One more observation signing with m-soft account changes which share is accessible and which is not, but does not completely remedy the problem.
 
olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Wed Sep 19, 2018 1:57 pm

Aranarth wrote:
If it was me I would recreate the shares that don't work on some machines.
I would delete the shares and then during recreation check the share permissions and the local permissions as well for your groups and or accounts.
If the share is by group then make sure individuals are in the proper groups.
It may be that the machines that work have cached credentials that the new ones that don't are missing them.

The other thing to try is to login to the same machine with the issue connecting trying a different known working account.
If the account works then you know where the issue is.


...been 'ere, done that :-( seems that m-soft created that mess in 1803 (too many complains about the same problem).
 
toastie
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:46 pm

Takeshi7 wrote:
I had a problem with a computer not being able to find my NAS and I used this video to solve it: https://www.windowscentral.com/how-acce ... windows-10

I had to enable SMB1.0 support. apparently Microsoft disabled it by default in one of their recent Windows 10 updates as a security risk.


FYI, I had a similar issue and this was the solution for me. I had to enable SMB V1 support.
 
bthylafh
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:19 pm

You really don't want to enable SMBv1, though. It's unfixably insecure.
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olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:17 am

UPD:

Just in case anyone cares - problem solved, weirdly, but solved. Assigning static addresses to each machine and disabling DHCP allow access to the shares. Putting every machine on DHCP allow access to the shares. In mixed mode machines see each other, but can not talk. Another thing - WiFi settings bleed over eth and overrule settings, regardless of what I was trying to do. Please refrain from the comments, how ridiculous or impossible it is. Have an effervescent day, and thanks to everyone.
 
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:42 am

olegtf wrote:
UPD:

Just in case anyone cares - problem solved, weirdly, but solved. Assigning static addresses to each machine and disabling DHCP allow access to the shares. Putting every machine on DHCP allow access to the shares. In mixed mode machines see each other, but can not talk. Another thing - WiFi settings bleed over eth and overrule settings, regardless of what I was trying to do. Please refrain from the comments, how ridiculous or impossible it is. Have an effervescent day, and thanks to everyone.


Good grief that's weird...
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:07 pm

@olegtf: Just make sure your access points are relying on an existing DHCP server rather than supplying their own - otherwise networking connectivity problems will pop-up, which may have been the reason of why you weren't able to connect to these hosts if you were doing wireless-to-wired connections

Also, Security PSA: I would NEVER enable SMB v1.0 because of this (https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-w ... ervice-off) - TL;DR: May allow WannaCry/Petya/EternalBlue malware and exploit kits and SMBLoris DoS types of attacks. Microsoft is planning to remove SMB v1.0 altogether from Windows 10 later this year - so later Windows 10 clients may not be capable to connect to SMB v1.0 at all.
 
olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:19 pm

qmacpoint wrote:
@olegtf: Just make sure your access points are relying on an existing DHCP server rather than supplying their own - otherwise networking connectivity problems will pop-up, which may have been the reason of why you weren't able to connect to these hosts if you were doing wireless-to-wired connections

Also, Security PSA: I would NEVER enable SMB v1.0 because of this (https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-w ... ervice-off) - TL;DR: May allow WannaCry/Petya/EternalBlue malware and exploit kits and SMBLoris DoS types of attacks. Microsoft is planning to remove SMB v1.0 altogether from Windows 10 later this year - so later Windows 10 clients may not be capable to connect to SMB v1.0 at all.


TNX... for the first part - DHCP dead as of now, everything is static and I am not up to par to re-enable it again unless something unexpected will pop-up.
as for the second part - build update is being downloaded as of now, so not much info available yet, but last time SMB 1 was enabled by default. If I remember, I'll update you on results.
 
olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Aranarth wrote:
Good grief that's weird...


Well, you know what they say about that...
 
qmacpoint
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:19 pm

olegtf wrote:
qmacpoint wrote:
@olegtf: Just make sure your access points are relying on an existing DHCP server rather than supplying their own - otherwise networking connectivity problems will pop-up, which may have been the reason of why you weren't able to connect to these hosts if you were doing wireless-to-wired connections

Also, Security PSA: I would NEVER enable SMB v1.0 because of this (https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-w ... ervice-off) - TL;DR: May allow WannaCry/Petya/EternalBlue malware and exploit kits and SMBLoris DoS types of attacks. Microsoft is planning to remove SMB v1.0 altogether from Windows 10 later this year - so later Windows 10 clients may not be capable to connect to SMB v1.0 at all.


TNX... for the first part - DHCP dead as of now, everything is static and I am not up to par to re-enable it again unless something unexpected will pop-up.
as for the second part - build update is being downloaded as of now, so not much info available yet, but last time SMB 1 was enabled by default. If I remember, I'll update you on results.


Remember that you should only have one DHCP server per segmented network/range - technically only ONE networking device doing the routing, handling the IPs and etc (I'm thinking of a small home office).
 
olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:43 pm

qmacpoint wrote:
olegtf wrote:
qmacpoint wrote:
@olegtf: Just make sure your access points are relying on an existing DHCP server rather than supplying their own - otherwise networking connectivity problems will pop-up, which may have been the reason of why you weren't able to connect to these hosts if you were doing wireless-to-wired connections

Also, Security PSA: I would NEVER enable SMB v1.0 because of this (https://www.onmsft.com/news/microsoft-w ... ervice-off) - TL;DR: May allow WannaCry/Petya/EternalBlue malware and exploit kits and SMBLoris DoS types of attacks. Microsoft is planning to remove SMB v1.0 altogether from Windows 10 later this year - so later Windows 10 clients may not be capable to connect to SMB v1.0 at all.


TNX... for the first part - DHCP dead as of now, everything is static and I am not up to par to re-enable it again unless something unexpected will pop-up.
as for the second part - build update is being downloaded as of now, so not much info available yet, but last time SMB 1 was enabled by default. If I remember, I'll update you on results.


Remember that you should only have one DHCP server per segmented network/range - technically only ONE networking device doing the routing, handling the IPs and etc (I'm thinking of a small home office).


There is only one, but problem in win10, not anywhere else, after upgrading to 1803 I got this...

Image

Image

Back to the drawing board, and yes smb 1 enabled by default...
 
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:16 pm

olegtf wrote:

Back to the drawing board, and yes smb 1 enabled by default...


1) Ok so you have a group policy setting. Read this article to update your setting: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4046019
2) Do you have network connection to that machine? (i.e. ping) I would try updating the previous setting and re-checking the connection.
 
olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Thu Sep 20, 2018 10:32 pm

qmacpoint wrote:
olegtf wrote:

Back to the drawing board, and yes smb 1 enabled by default...


1) Ok so you have a group policy setting. Read this article to update your setting: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4046019
2) Do you have network connection to that machine? (i.e. ping) I would try updating the previous setting and re-checking the connection.


1- regardless of "not configured" or Enabled - same behavior. BTW SMB 1 in fact enabled by default, contrary to the statement in the article.
2 - yes, yes and yes, machines even listed in the network neighborhood, with names and credentials. as I said B4 they see each other, just don't talk.
I'll sleep on that one and will decide if this toilet magazine rack replacement worth anymore time ;-) Quite frustrating, On the other hand I do have machines which I have no problems with accessing shares. All of them running same Win7 BE Ultimate Build, which really irks me - they are identical to each other.

Image
 
Waco
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:26 am

Wireshark it and figure out what's different.
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olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:38 am

Waco wrote:
Wireshark it and figure out what's different.


...m-soft solved that problem for me overnight - whatever update was installed in my ZZZZzzzz time prevents machine to go past boot screen. Fantastic, [sarcasm] ...
 
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:08 pm

What odd config do you have? Unless you have esoteric hardware or a very screwed up manual configuration I have trouble believing that MS bricked your install.
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olegtf
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Re: W10 unable to access SOME of W7&W10 n-work shares

Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:25 pm

Waco wrote:
What odd config do you have? Unless you have esoteric hardware or a very screwed up manual configuration I have trouble believing that MS bricked your install.

well, I would bet on esoteric hardware more than manual config.

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