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e1jones
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Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:31 pm

On Dec 13 I allowed a reboot to install a couple software updates, one for Acrobat and also a few Windows things. Ever since I have had a daily DPC BSOD (Ironically, had one in the midst of typing this sentence). This was originally installed as Win7 Pro and upgraded in place to Win10 Pro.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/qiuwgm2bv3la ... e9CFa?dl=0 - Link to Dropbox & Dump logs

I went to the microsoft 'answers' forum and blah blah... nothing helped yet.

1 - First the dump files were pointing to my originally installed Nvidia driver. Updated that to the latest... didn't help.
2 - Eventually it started mentioning the NT Kernel (now it just says 'unknown'.
3 - Rolled back Adobe, didn't help.
4 - Updated a bunch of other drivers.
5 - Downloaded the Crucial software, SSD checks out fine.
6 - Installed & ran both Malwarebytes & Spybot...
7 - Ran two passes of Memtest.
8 - Somewhere along I moved the SSD to a different cable on a different motherboard port.
9 - At some point I ran a bunch or Windows updates, including v. 1809

Cloned the drive to another SSD and ran backups.

My next thought is to swap to the cloned SSD and see what happens. If that doesn't help I may do the built-in windows 'refresh' or whatever its called. If that doesn't work I may just have to suffer through a clean install (reinstalling the work related programs) and hope that helps. I don't really have another desktop to test other hardware on.

Any other thoughts?
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:07 pm

Exorcist?
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 5:29 pm

I know you've tried updating drivers, but have you tried doing a clean slate? Something like DDU (https://www.guru3d.com/files-details/di ... nload.html) may help you to clean up all the drivers you have, and validate if it's actually a driver related problem. I used to have the same violation with some video drivers (Duet Display) every so often, and just removing the drivers helped me out.
 
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 6:05 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Exorcist?


That's probably next after a complete reinstall of Win10 doesn't fix something... 'cuz then it's some other piece of hardware :( Of course, then I'll really be bummed out because in the not quite 2 years since I built it, I hadn't had a single issue. One stupid update & reboot and suddenly its possessed.

@ qmacpoint Thanks, hadn't looked at a system-wide update yet.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:21 pm

If Watchdog_violation and full reinstalling don't work, then most likely CPU.
 
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:48 pm

Darthutos wrote:
If Watchdog_violation and full reinstalling don't work, then most likely CPU.

Would be rather odd for an OS update to break a CPU though...
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:19 pm

If this were one of my users' computers, it'd get Clonezilla'd (image-based backup) and then reimaged. No telling what sort of Lovecraftian tentacles have taken root, starting with the in-place upgrade from Win7, and you're apt to burn a lot of time trying to extricate them.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:07 pm

It's a stock CPU? The board isn't auto-overclocking the CPU or anything, is it?

I did notice this one: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 36d?auth=1 which matches you having upgraded from Win 7. A bit weird, but easy enough to rule out.

You can try sfc /scannow but if it doesn't find anything then it would be faster to just nuke and do a fresh Win 10 install.
 
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:54 pm

I reviewed your provided kernel dumps and they're corrupted. Whatever went wrong totally trashed the entire memory management of the OS.

STACK_TEXT:  
fffff807`67d893a8 fffff807`682f4c4b : 00000000`00000133 00000000`00000001 00000000`00001e00 fffff807`685dc380 : 0xfffff807`6824cb40
fffff807`67d893b0 00000000`00000133 : 00000000`00000001 00000000`00001e00 fffff807`685dc380 00000000`00000000 : 0xfffff807`682f4c4b
fffff807`67d893b8 00000000`00000001 : 00000000`00001e00 fffff807`685dc380 00000000`00000000 fffff807`67d894a9 : 0x133
fffff807`67d893c0 00000000`00001e00 : fffff807`685dc380 00000000`00000000 fffff807`67d894a9 00000000`00000000 : 0x1
fffff807`67d893c8 fffff807`685dc380 : 00000000`00000000 fffff807`67d894a9 00000000`00000000 fffff780`00000320 : 0x1e00
fffff807`67d893d0 00000000`00000000 : fffff807`67d894a9 00000000`00000000 fffff780`00000320 00000000`0000000b : 0xfffff807`685dc380


That's not a normal stack text (it appears self referential), nor really is any other proper information provided in the dump files. As I said at the start, the whole thing is spoiled. The stack text is generally not the same crash to crash either (different random memory locations referenced). My inclination is bad hardware.
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e1jones
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:39 am

Ryu Connor wrote:
My inclination is bad hardware.

Interesting :( A couple of the BSODs straight up didn't even produce a dump file. They sat at the 'gathering info' part and then just rebooted. Any ideas which bit of hardware might be the suspect, if it is hardware?

Overall, for nearly 2 years this thing was rebooted almost never, only occasionally for software reasons. Even the hardware hadn't been touched since some early hard drive consolidation.

I did a full Macrium Reflect clone a couple days ago to a new SSD. I may redo it tomorrow just to be safe (the most used files are all on Google Drive or Dropbox) and switch them over.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:29 am

e1jones wrote:
Any ideas which bit of hardware might be the suspect, if it is hardware?


CPU, mobo, RAM, PSU.

Overall, for nearly 2 years this thing was rebooted almost never, only occasionally for software reasons. Even the hardware hadn't been touched since some early hard drive consolidation.


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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sun Dec 30, 2018 4:23 am

i got these from a dying(?) < 1 year old GTX 1060. at the worst, it would do it when playing a video, or displaying a page of tiny videos/gifs on imgur. stopped the moment i took the card out (i even did a DDU and let Windows install the proper driver before removing it)

it's currently in a second system to test to see if the issue is repeatable. if so, RMA it is!
 
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:56 am

If you are using XMP profile for your memory try reducing BCLK from absurd 102.XXX to 100.00 straight. This solved my random BSODs due to DPC watchdog. Using my i7 8700 system with 3000 XMP at 2933 with that setting and no issues so far.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:15 am

Uninstall Acrobat followed by a search and destroy of all things Adobe. Do you really think an Acrobat roll back will actually do anything?
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e1jones
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Tue Jan 01, 2019 12:15 pm

Ryu Connor wrote:
CPU, mobo, RAM, PSU.

Overall, for nearly 2 years this thing was rebooted almost never, only occasionally for software reasons. Even the hardware hadn't been touched since some early hard drive consolidation.


Computers don't age like a fine wine, they age like milk.

Actually, when you mention that, during one of the reboots post-BSOD early in the process, the motherboard couldn't find the boot drive while booting. I swapped the SSD to a different SATA cable & port which then booted fine. That may have been the same reboot where the clock was suddenly a couple hours off. The clock thing corrected itself eventually, and the boot drive hasn't disappeared again since.

The sad part is, the prior computer aged just fine, soldiering on for nearly 9 years. Two boot drives and a video card died in that time, but it took a corrupted primary BIOS chip eventually force this computer build.

Kougar wrote:
It's a stock CPU? The board isn't auto-overclocking the CPU or anything, is it?

I did notice this one: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 36d?auth=1 which matches you having upgraded from Win 7. A bit weird, but easy enough to rule out.

You can try sfc /scannow but if it doesn't find anything then it would be faster to just nuke and do a fresh Win 10 install.

Completely stock. Actually started on that topic... which ended up not even being applicable. Did an sfc scan pretty early which turned up nothing.

After yesterday mornings BSOD, it rebooted on the other SSD I'd cloned earlier (it changed by itself). Didn't realize it until I tried to reclone to update anything changed in 2 days. So I decided to do the built-in windows 'Reset' or whatever it was called. Installed the basics, but the work programs and Adobe Reader & Acrobat haven't been installed. I'll see what happens over the next couple days... and add restore points a little more regularly when I reinstall stuff.

Thankfully its the quiet season.
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e1jones
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:44 pm

Well, after all that it dumped again this morning. Different SSD and 'refreshed' Win10 install.

Pointing at the nvidia driver and the ntoskrnl once again.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wwwitr4vz74ow ... 1.dmp?dl=0

I may try removing the video card and run the motherboard video to see if that helps. Probably not but maybe eliminate the possibility before admitting the motherboard is a bit hosed :( Is there some sort of standalone utility to test a motherboard (like memtest for memory)? Maybe do a complete reinstall first... but a new motherboard to test the other components on may be the next order of business.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:39 pm

Same results as the previous dump file(s). It's completely corrupt, anything the BSOD blames is suspect when the results are tore up like this.

That said, you're at the part where you're gonna have to start narrowing down the suspects. Removing the video card and running testing what happens on the IGP is a good first start.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:48 am

While you have the case open, consider reseating all cards, DIMMs, cables, etc.
 
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:52 pm

Followed thru on pulling the video card, probably the same day I mentioned it (Jan 1... so 2 or 3 days ago?)... also nuked the nvidia driver from orbit with DDU. Since then it's been behaving as expected prior to BSOD-ing daily. I do have a low-mileage MSI 960 video card that I can swap in to maybe determine if the other card is wonky.

If it goes back to crashing I may have to decide the motherboard is messed up? Well, it could be a power supply issue then too, suddenly overloading it even though its a 550W unit. The UPS registers ~150 W now (was maybe 180W with the video card), which includes about 60W for the 2 monitors. Load on the PS is pretty low, to say the least.

At least yay for an IGP... but gawd, even my mild gaming on the IGP is hideous.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:28 pm

e1jones wrote:
Followed thru on pulling the video card, probably the same day I mentioned it (Jan 1... so 2 or 3 days ago?)... also nuked the nvidia driver from orbit with DDU. Since then it's been behaving as expected prior to BSOD-ing daily. I do have a low-mileage MSI 960 video card that I can swap in to maybe determine if the other card is wonky.

If it goes back to crashing I may have to decide the motherboard is messed up? Well, it could be a power supply issue then too, suddenly overloading it even though its a 550W unit. The UPS registers ~150 W now (was maybe 180W with the video card), which includes about 60W for the 2 monitors. Load on the PS is pretty low, to say the least.

At least yay for an IGP... but gawd, even my mild gaming on the IGP is hideous.


As power supplies age, they begin to degrade. That's just natural wear and tear on them. There's always the possibility that components within have failed, such as capacitors, which will cause grief.

That's a future concern, for now more testing is needed.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:43 pm

So maybe I'm just really slow at making sh*t happen (ask my wife).

Just short of 2 weeks without the video card, not a single anomaly in computer behavior. Shut it down today, dropped in my previously mothballed MSI 760 and installed the drivers. Keeping my fingers crossed that this doesn't start BSODing again over the weekend. Swapping in slightly better new card while dealing with the warranty is better than the alternatives.

Somewhat ironic that I had to go back to the boxes and find the cable for the 8+6 pin video card power... the 1060 only needed the 6 pin.

*fingers crossed*
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:55 pm

Well, f&*k, that didn't take long. After dropping the spare video card in yesterday afternoon, and doing the usual stuff, plus a bout of Battletech last night, it BSOD'd this morning within about 30 minutes of waking from sleep. I had logged in & let it sit doing nothing.

I'm almost tempted to put one of the video cards in the secondary pcie x16 slot instead and see what happens. Otherwise... the motherboard is probably hosed?

Even though it may be as hosed as the earlier dump files...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/svw1ktzd19qfc ... 1.dmp?dl=0
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:10 pm

Sure seems video-card related on the surface, but let's keep digging and cracking. Mobo is a possibility, but IMO a greater probability of failure (however intermittent) lies in RAM, and PSU. 18 months ago (june 2017) I built a home ESXi box around a Ryzen 5 1600, Asus Prime X370-PRO, and 64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Fortis (AMD-compatible :roll: looks just like Aegis from G.Skill today) DDR4-2400. The doubled RAM over my Sandy/Ivy Bridge Xeons was letting me combine two hosts into one. It's a 64GB RAM kit, and all four sticks truly have sequential serial numbers. The only Newegg review for that kit is by me, and I praised it for passing Memtest with zero errors.

That's no longer the case. Depending on speeds and DIMM combinations, it's almost impossible to get any pair of the 4 DIMMs to pass MemTest, even at stock 2133. I even tried one run at 1866 and still errors. Thousands of errors. It may be rare, but RAM can go bad. Since this all unfurled about a month ago (by that I mean instability became intolerable over the past 18 months, leading to testing and parts-swapping), I swapped over Mushkin DDR4-2400 (32GB, 16x2) into the host and it passes MemTest and has been stable. I moved the G.Skill (32GB, 16x2 at a time) into my main Windows PC (also Ryzen 5 1600, with the similar Asus ROG Strix X370-F). Only one combination of the 4 DIMMs from the 64GB kit, consisting of 32GB (16x2) will pass MemTest in this alternate motherboard.

Since I just cut the host's RAM in half, I added a NUC7i7BNH (Baby Lake) with 32GB of G.Skill SO-DIMMs (16x2) to my vSphere. This was also MemTested in 2017 when assembled, and again in 2018 when it (probably a different unit) came back from RMA. Now it won't pass MemTest either, although there haven't been any ESXi PSODs like the Ryzen host had monthly-to-daily with G.Skill RAM.

TL;DR - always re-test memory even if it already checked out, when dealing with instability. Especially if that RAM is G.Skill. That's 6 DDR4-2400 DIMMs (two of them SO-DIMMs) that were fine 1 year and a half ago, and no longer are.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:36 pm

The dump file this time was not corrupted and it blames the DirectX Kernel. There are still parts of the dump file that don't make sense, like the timeframe of the watchdog violation itself. The details still make me think bad hardware.

My inclination is a bad power supply. Everything seems peachy until you add the extra load of a discrete video card.
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e1jones
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:56 pm

MOSFET wrote:
TL;DR - always re-test memory even if it already checked out, when dealing with instability. Especially if that RAM is G.Skill. That's 6 DDR4-2400 DIMMs (two of them SO-DIMMs) that were fine 1 year and a half ago, and no longer are.


I probably never ran MEMTEST originally, but I did 2 full runs once I started trying to narrow down possible causes. Came back with zero errors.

So two different (Nvidia) cards both have the same issue, or are the partial cause thereof. I have a pretty low mileage Corsair CX430 that I can swap in and see if the big power supply in use now is having issues. I still have the power supply from the 2008 computer this one replaced if I really wanted to get crazy. It is(was) 600W? And/or swap the video card to the 2nd x16 slot to see if the main x16 slot is wonky.

Ugh... thoughts?
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:05 pm

Seems like a good course of action. Don't make multiple changes at once. I'd start with swapping PSU(s) first. Then if that fails move to trying a different slot.
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:01 pm

Try running some burn-in programs in Linux - e.g. Ubuntu or Linux Mint Cinnamon. That ought to isolate any software issues. If it crashes in Linux, that makes it more likely it's hardware, not software or drivers.

In other words, eliminate Windows from the equation.

For example, here's a GPU burn-in program that works in Linux: http://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/
 
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:08 pm

Also, it is for problems like these that I like to own diagnostic programs that perform mathematical operations and test them for accuracy. For example, I use PC Doctor Service Center.

A lot of people use Memtest86, but that only tests for memory errors. But there are programs that will test *everything* for errors.

Unfortunately, most such diagnostic programs cost a few hundred dollars.

I've never used PassMark, so I can't vouch for it, but it looks like it might be suitable: https://www.passmark.com/products/bitlinux.htm

"Price: Free 30 day evaluation"

So try installing Linux and running that free evaluation.

(There's also a self-bootable version of PassMark, but it costs about $198.)
 
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:11 pm

Had some serious WTF last night. After sleeping the computer for the night at about 10pm and going to sleep, I noticed it come on an hour or so later all by itself. OK, maybe the cats kicked the keyboard and woke it up, so I logged into windows and put it back to sleep.

Sometime after that I woke up and realized the thing was on again... except this time it had booted into the Ubuntu Live USB drive I had put together (as suggested above to try some non-windows testing). OK, wtf, couldn't find a sleep option, so shut it down all the way. When I got back to it this morning I went straight to the BIOS, which refused to acknowledge my boot drive as one of the regular boot order options. The boot drive was available as an option under the override options on the save & exit page, and it booted there just fine when I selected it. The weirdest part was that when I got into windows, it behaved as if it had come back from being asleep (aka all the things that were open & running were still open & running vs the usual nothing open & running from a hard reboot. And the BIOS clock & windows desktop clock are 8 hours ahead (guessing it reset itself to GMT (I'm on PST)?

I may not have mentioned it, but this is now the 2nd time I've had the boot drive randomly disappear and reboot on a different drive and the BIOS/windows clock got to GMT at the same time. The last time was 6-8 weeks ago, right after I cloned the windows boot disk to another, and it switched them during a BSOD reboot.

Something is screaming wonky motherboard... though the power supply might be wonky too?
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Re: Windows 10 DPC_Watchdog_Violation BSOD

Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:33 pm

I think you need garlic, silver bullets, and a stake. It's clearly possessed.

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