Personal computing discussed

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anotherengineer
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Linux Assitance/Info

Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:48 pm

Hello,

so moms PC is on XP, I think the HDD is on the way out, and I think XP or the newer software is starting to cause issues also.

So I have been mulling the idea of trying Mint - Mate or Ubuntu - ??

The hardware is pretty old so driver support should be ok? Radeon HD 3850, an old A64 4600+, 2GB DDR400 ram, etc. (Just the HP inkjet the concerns me) Have a spare win7 x64 key, but I have concerns it might slow down the system even more.

She only uses it for surfing the net (email, facebook and Sears lol)

Just wondering if I should get a small 128GB SSD and put on XP or try out Linux? This will also be my first time attempting a Linux install, been a walled in windows user for life. Do any of you primary Linux users run any protection on your desktop or not required like a windows box??

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks
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DrDominodog51
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:05 pm

Ubuntu is a good option for her. Be warned that Ubuntu's GUI, Unity, is close to OS X' GUI. I'm not sure about the printer as I don't use printers under linux, but all of the other hardware should work perfectly of her usage. I don't use AV on my linux installs.
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localhostrulez
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:33 pm

No, I wouldn't get an SSD for XP. 7 32-bit will probably run fine (and your key should work if you grab the ISO/disc somewhere), although 64-bit is a bit iffy with 2GB. HP's driver support is pretty good under Windows, although I'm not sure about linux. I.e. My high-end Laserjet from 1999 works out of the box on any modern linux distro or Windows 2000 and up with its old basic PCL6 or Postscript 2 (yeah, the printer predates W2K), but newer Laserjets seem to require additional HP stuff to be installed to work on linux, even though the OS lists the printer in the driver support list. I don't know much about their inkjets, though I do know that Windows/Mac support seems to be quite good for those as well.

Linux does seem like a nice idea though, provided the drivers will cooperate. (Honestly, I've pondered switching and done tests, but drivers have been a major sticking point for me. Nvidia drivers, needing to rebuild them when the kernel updates, general reliability issues across several distros but not Windows, etc.)
 
just brew it!
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:47 pm

Just say no to reinstalling XP, that's a recipe for a malware cesspool at this point.

IMO Mint would be a good choice for someone who's accustomed to XP. The HD 3000 series GPU should work well with the bundled GPU drivers, saving you from AMD driver hell.

Go with the most recent LTS release; the non-LTS ones -- while more current in terms of the versions of software available -- go EOL too quickly. Install Chrome and set it as the default browser if she needs Flash, the standard Flash plugin for non-Chrome browsers on Linux is old and crufty but Chrome has its own.

Thunderbird is a good choice if she wants a local e-mail client (as opposed to webmail).

Anti-virus is entirely optional on Linux IMO. I don't run AV on any of my Linux systems.

If you decide to stick with Windows, upgrade the RAM. 2GB is pretty marginal for Win7 x64
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whm1974
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Sun Sep 27, 2015 9:59 pm

IMO Mint would be a good choice for someone who's accustomed to XP.

Get the XFCE version. Ir's very trouble free and easy to learn and use. If you can, add another 2 gigs of memory and use 64 bit Mint, otherwise use the 32 bit one.
 
bthylafh
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Sun Sep 27, 2015 10:20 pm

I'd also recommend Mint Xfce, 32-bit unless you put another 2GB of RAM in it. I don't bother running AV for two reasons: 1) I'm careful anyway, and 2) I don't know of any decent in-memory Linux AV.

Go here to see if her printer's supported: http://hplipopensource.com/hplip-web/su ... index.html
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anotherengineer
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:10 am

Thanks guys.

Downloaded mint XFCE 64-bit, didn't even think about memory lol. Will grab the 32-bit one, money will go to SSD which can be re-used unlike some old ddr400 ram.

Thinking of a BX100 250GB, price range is about $150 (CND $$) I got a hyperX about 3 years ago and been happy with it, but that had 20nm MLC from micron or whatever before kingston did the filperoo.

Will try to order the SSD today at lunch, hopefully get it installed this weekend. Wife will be nightshift so I should have some 'me time' ;)

edit - well there was 1 other option - Vista 32-bit, I have the disc with SP2, but pc with it and the sticker is gone so no key ;(
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morphine
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:20 am

just brew it! wrote:
Thunderbird is a good choice if she wants a local e-mail client (as opposed to webmail).

I don't know the "current options" for Linux local e-mail clients, but I would advise against Thunderbird. It's outdated and nearly a dead project, buggy to Hades and back. I lived with it for many a year but had to let it go more or less recently.
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bthylafh
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:29 am

morphine wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Thunderbird is a good choice if she wants a local e-mail client (as opposed to webmail).

I don't know the "current options" for Linux local e-mail clients, but I would advise against Thunderbird. It's outdated and nearly a dead project, buggy to Hades and back. I lived with it for many a year but had to let it go more or less recently.


It's not dead: newest release was last month.

https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/thunderbird ... es/38.2.0/
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Flatland_Spider
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:43 am

Openprinting.org (https://www.openprinting.org/printers/) has good info on which printers work, which ones don't, and what level of functionality should be expected.

HP has been a supporter of Linux for quite a while, so I wouldn't be surprised if the inkjet was supported.
 
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:48 am

anotherengineer wrote:
edit - well there was 1 other option - Vista 32-bit, I have the disc with SP2, but pc with it and the sticker is gone so no key ;(


Windows 10 might be an option, it apparently offers better performance on older hardware than Vista and Seven.
 
Deanjo
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:56 am

morphine wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Thunderbird is a good choice if she wants a local e-mail client (as opposed to webmail).

I don't know the "current options" for Linux local e-mail clients, but I would advise against Thunderbird. It's outdated and nearly a dead project, buggy to Hades and back. I lived with it for many a year but had to let it go more or less recently.



It's not dead at all, it is still very active and I can't say I have had any issues with it being "buggy" at all.
 
atari030
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:10 am

Deanjo wrote:
morphine wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Thunderbird is a good choice if she wants a local e-mail client (as opposed to webmail).

I don't know the "current options" for Linux local e-mail clients, but I would advise against Thunderbird. It's outdated and nearly a dead project, buggy to Hades and back. I lived with it for many a year but had to let it go more or less recently.



It's not dead at all, it is still very active and I can't say I have had any issues with it being "buggy" at all.


Completely agree with Deanjo here. I've used Thunderbird for years and years, all on Linux. Development is active and continuing. I've never had a single issue with it and never lost any data or mail using it. I highly recommend it.

Also, I'd recommend Xubuntu (XFCE front-ended Unbuntu) or Kubuntu (KDE desktop Ubuntu) for those coming from Windows
 
anotherengineer
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:12 am

Thanks for the printer link and feedback guys.

So after the installation is completed (the ISO from DVD) anyway, what next? Open office and some other misc. items, Chrome (if flash is needed as JBI pointed out)?? Or should be good to go when the dvd finishes?
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anotherengineer
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:15 am

atari030 wrote:
Also, I'd recommend Xubuntu (XFCE front-ended Unbuntu) or Kubuntu (KDE desktop Ubuntu) for those coming from Windows


Whats lighter on system resources?? Mint XFCE or Xubuntu or Kubuntu?
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atari030
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:22 am

anotherengineer wrote:
Thanks for the printer link and feedback guys.

So after the installation is completed (the ISO from DVD) anyway, what next? Open office and some other misc. items, Chrome (if flash is needed as JBI pointed out)?? Or should be good to go when the dvd finishes?


If you've not used Linux distros before, just a mention regarding software installs after the base install has been done via the ISO. Most Linux distros these days come with an 'app store' type application of sorts (or package manager). It's typically GUI driven (e.g. Ubuntu Software Center in Ubuntu) and will allow you to install most apps in question (Chrome, Open Office, etc.) without having to go outside the distro (e.g. Ubuntu) infrastructure. The Linux distros will keep their own repositories of software that you install from via electronic distribution....and will update that software from those repositories as necessary (as patches/updates become available). In other words, it's better to stick with the official packages offered by the distro itself instead of installing them 2nd hand manually.

If you were already aware of this, apologies, but as you hadn't used Linux much I figured it was worth mentioning.
 
atari030
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:24 am

anotherengineer wrote:
atari030 wrote:
Also, I'd recommend Xubuntu (XFCE front-ended Unbuntu) or Kubuntu (KDE desktop Ubuntu) for those coming from Windows


Whats lighter on system resources?? Mint XFCE or Xubuntu or Kubuntu?


Great question. Mint XFCE or Xubuntu between those three (as XFCE is the much lighter desktop environment). But between those two XFCE options, I couldn't say....someone would have to test :)
 
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:57 am

anotherengineer wrote:
Thanks for the printer link and feedback guys.

So after the installation is completed (the ISO from DVD) anyway, what next? Open office and some other misc. items, Chrome (if flash is needed as JBI pointed out)?? Or should be good to go when the dvd finishes?


Libre Office is installed by default with Mint (and probably Ubuntu) and it's got everything Open Office has. Chrome is good to have.

Regarding the interface... I've seen some folks suggesting Xfce, KDE, etc... one of the nice things about Linux is you can try them all. For example, if you've installed Xfce, it's easy enough to go into the Software Manager (it's like the Linux version of the app store) and install MATE, Cinnamon, or etc. And once they're installed, you can easily switch between them by simply logging out and back in again.
 
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:11 am

anotherengineer wrote:
The hardware is pretty old so driver support should be ok? Radeon HD 3850, an old A64 4600+, 2GB DDR400 ram, etc. (Just the HP inkjet the concerns me) Have a spare win7 x64 key, but I have concerns it might slow down the system even more.


I'm typing this from an A64 3700+ (3gb ram, 6850, mechanical HD). You're right to be concerned about Win7 performance. It's rough enough that your mom would find herself clicking on things several times, wondering if she mis-clicked the first time or if perhaps she did something wrong. The machine is barely usable if you keep in mind that you must be patient with the latency between user input and something visible happening.

In January of last year I decommissioned my mother-in-law's Dell 4700 P4 (3ghz, 3gb, 120gb SSD). Replacing their mechanical drive with an SSD made a huge difference when I did it in late 2011, but even with the SSD, you could feel the processor holding back Chrome in the Windows environment.

I recently did an upgrade from Win7 to Win10 on a C2D E4500 (4gb RAM, 5770, 256gb SSD). It ran Win10 nicely, and had no difficulty playing older games at 1080p on the main screen and YouTube videos & TaskManager on the second screen. The second core, more efficient architecture, and SSD make a huge difference.

Based on my recent experience with hardware that brackets the performance of yours, I think you'd find that the A64-4600+ with an SSD would run Win7 (or Win10) poorly enough that your mom would be frustrated from time to time. It would work, but it wouldn't be a good idea.

anotherengineer wrote:
She only uses it for surfing the net (email, facebook and Sears lol)

Just wondering if I should get a small 128GB SSD and put on XP or try out Linux? This will also be my first time attempting a Linux install, been a walled in windows user for life.


I put Mint 17.2 (Cinnamon) on my mother-in-law's old cannibalized Dell 4700 P4 (3ghz, 1.5gb RAM, 80gb mechanical, Intel graphics) and played with it for browsing. It worked nicely, felt responsive, and had enough oomph to not struggle with Youtube.

During use, the system touches the hard drive very often, but it didn't feel like the nearly constant fiddling that Windows seems to do on the same machine.

anotherengineer wrote:
Do any of you primary Linux users run any protection on your desktop or not required like a windows box??

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks


My advice is to remove the mechanical drive from your mom's machine, get an SSD, install Mint on it, and see how she likes it. It's a little bit different looking, but if she's already using Chrome, then Chrome on Mint will be familiar enough that she won't have any problems.

If the experiment fails, you're left with an SSD that you can re-purpose, and you still have your mom's XP installation on the mechanical drive as a fall-back.
 
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 11:52 am

anotherengineer wrote:
Thanks for the printer link and feedback guys.

So after the installation is completed (the ISO from DVD) anyway, what next? Open office and some other misc. items, Chrome (if flash is needed as JBI pointed out)?? Or should be good to go when the dvd finishes?


As a general list:
    Check if NICs are supported.
    Check for proprietary drivers, if needed.
    Set repo options.
    Update OS.
    Setup second account for when your Mom can't remember her password.
    Install multimedia codecs/VLC.
    Install Chrome, if needed.
    Install other software as needed.

Quite a bit of software comes in the base install, and most of it covers everyday usage.

Oracle Java is probably the only tricky thing that might come up. I'm not sure if your Mom runs and software that specifically requires Oracle Java, but keep that in mind.
 
anotherengineer
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:07 pm

Flatland_Spider wrote:
anotherengineer wrote:
Thanks for the printer link and feedback guys.

So after the installation is completed (the ISO from DVD) anyway, what next? Open office and some other misc. items, Chrome (if flash is needed as JBI pointed out)?? Or should be good to go when the dvd finishes?


As a general list:
    Check if NICs are supported.
    Check for proprietary drivers, if needed.
    Set repo options.
    Update OS.
    Setup second account for when your Mom can't remember her password.
    Install multimedia codecs/VLC.
    Install Chrome, if needed.
    Install other software as needed.

Quite a bit of software comes in the base install, and most of it covers everyday usage.

Oracle Java is probably the only tricky thing that might come up. I'm not sure if your Mom runs and software that specifically requires Oracle Java, but keep that in mind.


Thanks
No Java, nephew plays minecraft, but too bad for him, he can use his iPad. lol

Hmm now that you mention it I think the mobo has a ULi M1575 southbridge.
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edit http://www.motherboards.org/mobot/mothe ... %2BDeluxe/
and a silicon image 3132 sata also
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just brew it!
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:53 pm

Not sure about the ULi, but should be OK. Silicon Image chips are well-supported in Linux with the default drivers.
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anotherengineer
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 2:50 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Not sure about the ULi, but should be OK. Silicon Image chips are well-supported in Linux with the default drivers.



Thanks

Should I put BIOS in sata mode or IDE legacy mode? With an SSD I guess sata would be preferable though.
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whm1974
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 3:02 pm

Should I put BIOS in sata mode or IDE legacy mode? With an SSD I guess sata would be preferable though.

I say SATA if you going to get a SSD for that system.
 
Flatland_Spider
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:44 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
No Java, nephew plays minecraft, but too bad for him, he can use his iPad. lol


There is OpenJDK in the repos, but some stuff hard codes a dependency on Oracle Java. I'm not sure which camp Minecraft is in.

just brew it! wrote:
Not sure about the ULi, but should be OK. Silicon Image chips are well-supported in Linux with the default drivers.


It looks like ULi should be fine, and it also looks like Nvidia bought them. There is a post about the ULi chipset on that board from 2006, so it should be okay.

anotherengineer wrote:
Should I put BIOS in sata mode or IDE legacy mode? With an SSD I guess sata would be preferable though.


SATA. Linux should handle it fine.
 
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 5:59 pm

Flatland_Spider wrote:
anotherengineer wrote:
No Java, nephew plays minecraft, but too bad for him, he can use his iPad. lol


There is OpenJDK in the repos, but some stuff hard codes a dependency on Oracle Java. I'm not sure which camp Minecraft is in.

I've used Minecraft with OpenJDK just fine in the past, but most recently was a year ago. Certainly had no problems then.
 
bthylafh
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 6:02 pm

On Windows Minecraft now bundles the JRE. I wouldn't be surprised if they do this on Linux also.
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notfred
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:35 pm

Minecraft on Linux needs Java and runs fine on OpenJDK. That's how my son plays on a Core2Quad 8400 with 4GB of RAM and a GeForce 8400 GS. I put a 128GB Crucial MX100 in it a while ago when it started feeling slow and my family think it's the fastest computer they use, far faster than any school, work or friends who run Windows. I'm running Ubuntu 14.04 LTS on it with gnome-session-flashback to get the old Metacity WM.
 
anotherengineer
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:31 am

Cool. Minecraft doens't matter anyway. (for this application)

What I did forget though

Does skype work with Linux, and if not what is a good alternative??

Also have a logitech Ultra vision webcam, doesn't look like there are any drivers on logitech's website for it. Is it supported by generic Linux drivers?
http://support.logitech.com/en_gb/produ ... tra-vision

Edit - forgot one more thing - I do have an old Mediasonic USB 3.0 card with an NEC chipset I was considering putting in there also, but don't really see drivers for that either?


Thanks
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Re: Linux Assitance/Info

Tue Sep 29, 2015 7:42 am

Boot up with a live CD, plug in the hardware and see if it is recognised. Odds are that non-cutting edge hardware will be recognised and just work straight out of the box.

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