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ludi
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Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:16 pm

Thoughts or impressions? So far I've only done a trial run in a VM and the UI is essentially unchanged. Are there any particularly interesting new features to look for, or is this basically a service pack rollup of the kernel and security updates that 14.04 had accumulated?
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:44 pm

So far, from my user perspective, it's the updated kernel+service pack roll-up. I know there are more significant changes under the hood, but it's a pretty conservative update to the everyday user. Personally, I'm fine with that since it's my default OS.

It is also rock stable and, as far as I've encountered, bug-free. So far I'm happy with it.
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:26 am

I'm holding off until I'm able to grok the deeper implications of systemd. Sticking with 14.04 LTS for now...
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Jul 28, 2016 9:57 am

Nothing really that exciting visible in day to day use. Systemd is the real biggie and you shouldn't have to touch that as a desktop user.

Snaps are also interesting but they're still undergoing so much work they aren't really for public consumption.

The 16.04.1 release has finally fixed some of the network manager problems which is nice.

Steam continues to be a problem with it's out of date libraries.

That's about it on the desktop.

On the phone, OTA12 means X apps like LibreOffice now run with minimal command line work (2 commands if you've already got adb or ssh setup). I've been playing with that on my Nexus 4 and it works pretty well.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:19 pm

Haven't ventured to the new Unity but I've got 16.04 running on one of my servers. Seems pretty normal/stable so far.

I'm too n00b to take sides on the whole systemd thing, but other than a few systemctl commands I really can't tell the difference between 16.04 and 14.04 (except for the 6 instead of 4) because all my work is too high-level. Oh well.
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:39 pm

Moved my Asus UX31A laptop to 16.04 yesterday. Actually I started Monday night by trying to upgrade from 14.04. It failed, but that's likely my fault as I wasn't paying particularly close attention, and I had an old NIS configuration in place for a server that didn't exist. It "hung" trying to bind a NIS server. I was ready for bed so I just turned it off. Yesterday I did a clean install. No problems at all. So far, everything seems to work just fine. All the various Fn buttons appear to do their defined thing, at least the ones I have tried.

I'll probably upgrade my main system at some point relatively soon.

--SS
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:19 pm

The new version of AMDGPU included with it fixed the issue I was having with my Radeon R9 380 card so I'm a big fan :)
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Tue Aug 02, 2016 4:34 pm

Oh man I love the new service status output

previous:
service apache2 status
Apache2 is running (pid 1165).

new:
service apache2 status
● apache2.service - LSB: Apache2 web server
Loaded: loaded (/etc/init.d/apache2; bad; vendor preset: enabled)
Drop-In: /lib/systemd/system/apache2.service.d
└─apache2-systemd.conf
Active: active (running) since Tue 2016-08-02 16:29:20 CDT; 2min 32s ago
Docs: man:systemd-sysv-generator(8)
Tasks: 35
Memory: 30.8M
CPU: 1.088s
CGroup: /system.slice/apache2.service
├─3177 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
├─3180 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
├─3181 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
├─3182 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
├─3183 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
├─3184 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
├─3185 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start
└─3821 /usr/sbin/apache2 -k start

Aug 02 16:29:18 server systemd[1]: Stopped LSB: Apache2 web server.
Aug 02 16:29:18 server systemd[1]: Starting LSB: Apache2 web server...
Aug 02 16:29:18 server apache2[3158]: * Starting Apache httpd web server apache2
Aug 02 16:29:20 server apache2[3158]: *
Aug 02 16:29:20 server systemd[1]: Started LSB: Apache2 web server.


(it's also in color, but I'm going to bother copying that).
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:56 pm

Decided to live dangerously, and attempt the in-place upgrade option on my 14.04 workstation. Interestingly, it worked, and other than having to confirm a few things manually during the process (such as the user agreement for the Microsoft TTF library), it was a smooth upgrade. The only thing I'm not so sure about are the hitches I got when using drag-and-drop to copy video files to a flash drive after running a few operations and export with Shotcut. Might be a file or a flash drive issue, I haven't had time to research it yet.

But, I have a larger SSD coming from eBay this week, so when that arrives I intend to hold the current drive as a temporary fallback and then do a clean install on the new one. Among other things, I see that VirtualBox 5.0.22 has finally made it into the Ubuntu software repository, so I'm hoping to get that up and running without all the adventures we had last time.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:58 pm

ludi wrote:
Decided to live dangerously, and attempt the in-place upgrade option on my 14.04 workstation. Interestingly, it worked, and other than having to confirm a few things manually during the process (such as the user agreement for the Microsoft TTF library), it was a smooth upgrade. The only thing I'm not so sure about are the hitches I got when using drag-and-drop to copy video files to a flash drive after running a few operations and export with Shotcut. Might be a file or a flash drive issue, I haven't had time to research it yet.

Yeah, the Microsoft TTF "core fonts" package exploits a bizarre loophole in the Microsoft EULA under which the fonts were originally distributed, and as a result installation of Arial, Times New Roman, etc. on Linux has always been a little squirrelly. They can only be legally distributed as the original standalone self-installing Windows .EXEs, as packaged by Microsoft. So selecting the package for installation causes the original .EXEs to be downloaded from a third-party site, then the package installation script picks apart the Windows installer image (without actually running it) to extract the font data.

As far as the flash drive issue goes, what brand of USB chipset is it? Asmedia USB 3.0 controllers seem to be kind of problematic in Linux...

ludi wrote:
But, I have a larger SSD coming from eBay this week, so when that arrives I intend to hold the current drive as a temporary fallback and then do a clean install on the new one. Among other things, I see that VirtualBox 5.0.22 has finally made it into the Ubuntu software repository, so I'm hoping to get that up and running without all the adventures we had last time.

FWIW, I recently tried to install Oracle's VirtualBox 5.0.26 package on a fresh but up-to-date 14.04.x system. I did not encounter any dependency issues or breakage. I did use the dpkg method instead of just double-clicking the .deb or using apt-get though, since when that method bombs it fails "safe" (i.e. just craps out with missing dependencies) rather than hosing the graphics stack.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:05 pm

I upgraded a bunch of VMs and my primary Linux rig to 16.04 LTS and I've been very happy. No complaints.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:03 am

just brew it! wrote:
As far as the flash drive issue goes, what brand of USB chipset is it? Asmedia USB 3.0 controllers seem to be kind of problematic in Linux...

Dell T5500, USB 2.0 host, problem replicated on a couple different SanDisk drives. But it turns out it's not the hardware.

What's happening is that I'm trying to copy a 280MB file and the GUI is reporting false information -- it shows the "temp" file icon for a short period while the Copy Progress indicator ramps rapidly to about 90-95% of the file size indicator, and then it appears to stall even as the file icon changes to its final "preview" form. After waiting a while, I finally closed the Copy Progress dialogue, ejected the drive, and over-rode the "another process is using this device" warning because, well, that's what you do in Windows when an AV program is trying to background scan the drive.

Except, the cake is a lie. The file was nowhere near 90-95% copied, the Copy Progress bar and the Preview icon are not indicative of the completed file copy. If I waited a while longer, the ACTUAL copy finally completed, the Copy Progress bar disappears, and the drive can be ejected without incident.

Go figure.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:48 am

ludi wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
As far as the flash drive issue goes, what brand of USB chipset is it? Asmedia USB 3.0 controllers seem to be kind of problematic in Linux...

Dell T5500, USB 2.0 host, problem replicated on a couple different SanDisk drives. But it turns out it's not the hardware.

What's happening is that I'm trying to copy a 280MB file and the GUI is reporting false information -- it shows the "temp" file icon for a short period while the Copy Progress indicator ramps rapidly to about 90-95% of the file size indicator, and then it appears to stall even as the file icon changes to its final "preview" form. After waiting a while, I finally closed the Copy Progress dialogue, ejected the drive, and over-rode the "another process is using this device" warning because, well, that's what you do in Windows when an AV program is trying to background scan the drive.

Except, the cake is a lie. The file was nowhere near 90-95% copied, the Copy Progress bar and the Preview icon are not indicative of the completed file copy. If I waited a while longer, the ACTUAL copy finally completed, the Copy Progress bar disappears, and the drive can be ejected without incident.

Go figure.

Sounds like you're getting "had" by the file system's buffer cache. The GUI has issued ~90% of the write requests (so it considers the copy 90% done), but the data is still sitting around waiting to squeeze through that USB 2.0 straw. Most USB 2.0 thumbdrives don't get anywhere close to even the limited bandwidth of USB 2.0 when writing; 5 MB/sec or less seems to be fairly typical, meaning that 280MB file could easily take over a minute to copy. And finally, since you ejected before it was 100% complete the file did not get properly closed; so much of the data that *did* make it to the drive is probably invisible, because the directory and file allocation information did not get updated.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:49 am

ludi wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
As far as the flash drive issue goes, what brand of USB chipset is it? Asmedia USB 3.0 controllers seem to be kind of problematic in Linux...

Dell T5500, USB 2.0 host, problem replicated on a couple different SanDisk drives. But it turns out it's not the hardware.

What's happening is that I'm trying to copy a 280MB file and the GUI is reporting false information -- it shows the "temp" file icon for a short period while the Copy Progress indicator ramps rapidly to about 90-95% of the file size indicator, and then it appears to stall even as the file icon changes to its final "preview" form. After waiting a while, I finally closed the Copy Progress dialogue, ejected the drive, and over-rode the "another process is using this device" warning because, well, that's what you do in Windows when an AV program is trying to background scan the drive.

Except, the cake is a lie. The file was nowhere near 90-95% copied, the Copy Progress bar and the Preview icon are not indicative of the completed file copy. If I waited a while longer, the ACTUAL copy finally completed, the Copy Progress bar disappears, and the drive can be ejected without incident.

Go figure.


That's fairly standard file caching behavior on a slow drive. Unless the filesystem is set for synchronous writes, the filesystem operation goes through the filesystem cache. From the application point of view, the write is very fast. It is not until the target file is closed and flushed things actually make it to disk. So you get a very quick copy to cache and the progress bar jumps to almost complete followed by a "long" period of actually writing to disk where the progress bar doesn't move.

--SS
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:38 am

The explanation makes sense, but it's not clear to me why 16.04 is set up that way for a removable device. I don't recall seeing that behavior under 14.04, even when copying GBs of data to a flash drive, and Win10 has no problem reporting the real-time transfer rate when writing to a flash drive.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:08 am

It may depend on the particular DE being used. I can confirm that the progress reporting (both the rate and the percentage complete) of KDE's file copy GUI has always been squirrelly when writing to slow media. I think the bottom line is, the only way to get accurate stats is for the tool to do lots of periodic flush/sync operations, and that would potentially slow down the overall process.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 3:14 am

"What's happening is that I'm trying to copy a 280MB file and the GUI is reporting false information"

GUIs generally suck. The complicated Linux ones are especially bad. Gnome and KDE are terrible. A lot of us use some simpler ones, as we don't depend on them for basic functions.

In Linux 'unmount' the damn whatever before you assume it's done. 'Unmount' will not occur till it's over.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 6:21 am

PenGun wrote:
"What's happening is that I'm trying to copy a 280MB file and the GUI is reporting false information"

GUIs generally suck. The complicated Linux ones are especially bad. Gnome and KDE are terrible. A lot of us use some simpler ones, as we don't depend on them for basic functions.

In Linux 'unmount' the damn whatever before you assume it's done. 'Unmount' will not occur till it's over.


At least try to be helpful... :roll:
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 7:59 am

PenGun wrote:
GUIs generally suck. The complicated Linux ones are especially bad. Gnome and KDE are terrible. A lot of us use some simpler ones, as we don't depend on them for basic functions.

In Linux 'unmount' the damn whatever before you assume it's done. 'Unmount' will not occur till it's over.

All the popular DEs have a button for this in the file browser. No need to drop to the CLI unless the device was also mounted via CLI (and therefore does not show up in the file browser's device list).

And he wasn't complaining about the file being corrupted, he knew he pulled it before the copy was done and didn't expect it to be complete. He was complaining that there isn't a usable copy progress indicator when writing to slow media. CLI tools with progress indicators will exhibit the same issue.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:15 am

I wonder if 16.04 allows the write buffer for USB devices to balloon a lot bigger than 14.04 did? That would fit with the observations.

I just had a little 16.04 gotcha last night, I tried to suspend and it went down to a blank screen but didn't power off and then came all the way backup. The cron.weekly had fired for fstrim and it was trimming the SSD, fstrim refused to suspend. Once the fstrim had finished the suspend and resume is back to working fine.
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:35 am

JBI wrote:
And he wasn't complaining about the file being corrupted, he knew he pulled it before the copy was done and didn't expect it to be complete. He was complaining that there isn't a usable copy progress indicator when writing to slow media. CLI tools with progress indicators will exhibit the same issue.


File? Pfffftt, in the newer versions of dd I can see my progress (status=progress) as I move my blocks one by one.

Filesystems generally suck. I don't depend on them for basic functions like moving my data around.

:P
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 8:40 am

It's not vanilla Ubuntu, but Xubuntu 16.04 has been wonderfully problem-free for me. The only weirdness I've run into was a kernel panic caused by the out of the box radeonsi driver when I was playing Layers of Fear, but after syncing to Oibaf's X11 repo that went away. That said, I finally cried uncle: after spending too much time wrangling the OSS driver, I swapped my GTX 970 back in, installed the Nvidia drivers, and am happy not to see library compatibility issues any more.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:26 am

Last night, I tried a large file copy in the other direction: About 500MB from USB, to the 16.04 system SSD. The Copy Progress indicator moved at a normal and proportional rate until the copy was complete.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:47 am

ludi wrote:
Last night, I tried a large file copy in the other direction: About 500MB from USB, to the 16.04 system SSD. The Copy Progress indicator moved at a normal and proportional rate until the copy was complete.

In this case you are limited by read speed of the USB drive. The percentage complete is much more accurate because data to be written isn't piling up in the OS's file system cache. The amount of data read at any given point is (to a very close approximation) the same as the amount of data which has been physically written to the destination drive, since the destination drive is orders of magnitude faster.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:57 am

just brew it! wrote:
PenGun wrote:
GUIs generally suck. The complicated Linux ones are especially bad. Gnome and KDE are terrible. A lot of us use some simpler ones, as we don't depend on them for basic functions.

In Linux 'unmount' the damn whatever before you assume it's done. 'Unmount' will not occur till it's over.

All the popular DEs have a button for this in the file browser. No need to drop to the CLI unless the device was also mounted via CLI (and therefore does not show up in the file browser's device list).

And he wasn't complaining about the file being corrupted, he knew he pulled it before the copy was done and didn't expect it to be complete. He was complaining that there isn't a usable copy progress indicator when writing to slow media. CLI tools with progress indicators will exhibit the same issue.

Right, so unmounting the device will at least tell you when it's done.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:57 am

just brew it! wrote:
In this case you are limited by read speed of the USB drive. The percentage complete is much more accurate because data to be written isn't piling up in the OS's file system cache. The amount of data read at any given point is (to a very close approximation) the same as the amount of data which has been physically written to the destination drive, since the destination drive is orders of magnitude faster.

Kind of what I figured. Looks like my larger SSD arrived in today's mail, so sometime this weekend I intend to rebuild my Ubuntu workstation on that drive, starting from a fresh install. Curious to see whether the problem with the outbound progress indicator is native to the system, or represents a glitch that was introduced during the in-place upgrade.
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 11:59 am

Glorious wrote:
JBI wrote:
And he wasn't complaining about the file being corrupted, he knew he pulled it before the copy was done and didn't expect it to be complete. He was complaining that there isn't a usable copy progress indicator when writing to slow media. CLI tools with progress indicators will exhibit the same issue.


File? Pfffftt, in the newer versions of dd I can see my progress (status=progress) as I move my blocks one by one.

Filesystems generally suck. I don't depend on them for basic functions like moving my data around.

:P


You trust a computer to move your data around?
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:04 pm

Just curious, for those who have upgraded from 14, how is the performance? I am running Kubuntu 14.04 on my laptop and tried updating to 15.10 a while back, and it took a serious performance hit. Still worked, but everything seemed slow and there were some noticeable delays when opening windows and such, so I ended up going back to 14.04.

I am assuming (could be wrong) that 16.04 might have similar results. Mind you, this is an older laptop so it may just be more noticeable :D
 
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:24 pm

cphite wrote:
Just curious, for those who have upgraded from 14, how is the performance? I am running Kubuntu 14.04 on my laptop and tried updating to 15.10 a while back, and it took a serious performance hit. Still worked, but everything seemed slow and there were some noticeable delays when opening windows and such, so I ended up going back to 14.04.

I am assuming (could be wrong) that 16.04 might have similar results. Mind you, this is an older laptop so it may just be more noticeable :D

Well, 15.10 would be an interim/experimental build, right?

I don't notice any issues with 16.04 so far, either in VM on a Sandy Bridge-era laptop or my workstation...but I've only run "real" work on the latter, and a medium-spec T5500 isn't exactly in the same weight class as your laptop :wink:
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Re: Ubuntu 16.04 LTS

Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:05 pm

ludi wrote:
cphite wrote:
Just curious, for those who have upgraded from 14, how is the performance? I am running Kubuntu 14.04 on my laptop and tried updating to 15.10 a while back, and it took a serious performance hit. Still worked, but everything seemed slow and there were some noticeable delays when opening windows and such, so I ended up going back to 14.04.

I am assuming (could be wrong) that 16.04 might have similar results. Mind you, this is an older laptop so it may just be more noticeable :D


Well, 15.10 would be an interim/experimental build, right?


Yes, but I assume it's a move towards 16.04 in terms of what it does... If it takes more machine to run, it's not unreasonable to suspect that 16.04 might take more to run. Hence the question.

I don't notice any issues with 16.04 so far, either in VM on a Sandy Bridge-era laptop or my workstation...but I've only run "real" work on the latter, and a medium-spec T5500 isn't exactly in the same weight class as your laptop :wink:


Definitely not :D

I'll check it out... worst case is I reinstall 14.04 again.

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