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whm1974
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:50 pm

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
One myth I keep running into is Linux is hard to learn or use by non-geeks. My dad and stepmother use Linux just fine as did a few friends I introduce it to who pick it up real quick. Of course I had install and do some configuring, but I would have to do that for Windows anyway.

Well, you've got the Linux evangelists promoting the myth that "there's a free equivalent for practically every Windows application", so I figure we can call that one even. You need to have a pretty flexible definition of "equivalent" to be OK with that one...

There is a type of person is certain that world really does work like that: "GIMP looks like Photoshop, so therefore they're equivalent.  I don't actually have any experience with image editing or processing, but how is that relevant?  No, I have no idea what CMYK is, so it must not matter." *

In my experience, these people seem to find ways to insert themselves as roadblocks into the procurement process, with an astonishing amount of self-confidence and -righteousness.  I once had a functionary tell me that I was not allowed to have image editing software (of any stripe) anymore for my job, because the default user image included Acrobat Reader.  He was determined to not understand why that wasn't acceptable.

* I say this as someone who uses GIMP professionally, by the way.

It's highly dependent on the user. I myself use a mixture of FOSS and proprietary software. I rather use Linux with proprietary stuff then not being able to use Linux at all.  And yes I'm a realistic, I know fully well there isn't always a FOSS equivalent to closed source software.
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:35 pm

just brew it! wrote:
And I say what I said in my previous post as someone who uses Linux extensively, both personally and professionally, every single day!

<professional computer nerd fist bump>

whm1974 wrote:
It's highly dependent on the user. I myself use a mixture of FOSS and proprietary software. I rather use Linux with proprietary stuff then not being able to use Linux at all.  And yes I'm a realistic, I know fully well there isn't always a FOSS equivalent to closed source software.

I am in the same situation, and I am fine with that. I honestly think the FOSS purists do more harm than good, because it just isn't a realistic option for 99% of professionals, and taking a hard line means those 99% will never consider Linux an option. I genuinely prefer Ubuntu Linux to Windows (any version, I've used them all since 3.0). I can keep what Windows tools I need for work running in a nice, locked-down VM, and I'm glad the WINE developers are doing the work they do.

I once had a random drunk see me wearing a Red Hat developer t-shirt and -- entirely unprompted and out of the blue -- proceed to loudly chew me out for being a "sellout", proclaiming that the only real ethical choice was FreeBSD. It was quite a spectacle.
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:41 pm

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
I once had a random drunk see me wearing a Red Hat developer t-shirt and -- entirely unprompted and out of the blue -- proceed to loudly chew me out for being a "sellout", proclaiming that the only real ethical choice was FreeBSD. It was quite a spectacle.

Ah, RMS on one of his bad days.
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whm1974
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:55 pm

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
And I say what I said in my previous post as someone who uses Linux extensively, both personally and professionally, every single day!

<professional computer nerd fist bump>

whm1974 wrote:
It's highly dependent on the user. I myself use a mixture of FOSS and proprietary software. I rather use Linux with proprietary stuff then not being able to use Linux at all.  And yes I'm a realistic, I know fully well there isn't always a FOSS equivalent to closed source software.

I am in the same situation, and I am fine with that.  I honestly think the FOSS purists do more harm than good, because it just isn't a realistic option for 99% of professionals, and taking a hard line means those 99% will never consider Linux an option.  I genuinely prefer Ubuntu Linux to Windows (any version, I've used them all since 3.0).  I can keep what Windows tools I need for work running in a nice, locked-down VM, and I'm glad the WINE developers are doing the work they do.

I once had a random drunk see me wearing a Red Hat developer t-shirt and -- entirely unprompted and out of the blue -- proceed to loudly chew me out for being a "sellout", proclaiming that the only real ethical choice was FreeBSD.  It was quite a spectacle.

I switched from BeOS over to Mandriva Linux in 2001, after Be Inc went south. I only used Windows for gaming and a few other things. It took me a long time to completely dump Windows.
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:18 pm

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
I once had a random drunk see me wearing a Red Hat developer t-shirt and -- entirely unprompted and out of the blue -- proceed to loudly chew me out for being a "sellout", proclaiming that the only real ethical choice was FreeBSD.  It was quite a spectacle.

Unfortunately, there's been many episodes like that with no alcohol involved.  Despite spending most of my work days in Linux as well, I'm also of the opinion that Linux evangelists do more harm than good.  It's like having to deal with an obnoxious, super-aggressive car salesman when you're just trying to figure out the best way to get something done.  It's just icky, and no fun.
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whm1974
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:30 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Chuckaluphagus wrote:
I once had a random drunk see me wearing a Red Hat developer t-shirt and -- entirely unprompted and out of the blue -- proceed to loudly chew me out for being a "sellout", proclaiming that the only real ethical choice was FreeBSD.  It was quite a spectacle.

Unfortunately, there's been many episodes like that with no alcohol involved.  Despite spending most of my work days in Linux as well, I'm also of the opinion that Linux evangelists do more harm than good.  It's like having to deal with an obnoxious, super-aggressive car salesman when you're just trying to figure out the best way to get something done.  It's just icky, and no fun.

While I think Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I make an effort not to be obnoxious and aggressive when I'm promoting it.
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 9:45 pm

whm1974 wrote:
While I think Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I make an effort not to be obnoxious and aggressive when I'm promoting it.

And for that, we thank you.
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whm1974
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:08 pm

Waco wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
While I think Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I make an effort not to be obnoxious and aggressive when I'm promoting it.

And for that, we thank you.

I'm thinking of having folks buying a reasonable sized flash drive and so I can install Linux on it when they ask me about Linux and wanting to check it out. That way they can try out Linux without messing up their current setup.
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Sun Dec 18, 2016 10:16 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Waco wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
While I think Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I make an effort not to be obnoxious and aggressive when I'm promoting it.

And for that, we thank you.

I'm thinking of having folks buying a reasonable sized flash drive and so I can install Linux on it when they ask me about Linux and wanting to check it out. That way they can try out Linux without messing up their current setup.

I have one that I keep around for exactly that. It's essentially a live CD and I hand it out to anyone wanting to try Linux out. I removed the installer and NTFS support so there's almost no way they can screw up their machine with it.
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:09 am

Waco wrote:
I removed the installer and NTFS support so there's almost no way they can screw up their machine with it.

Oh, interesting. I never thought of doing that; good idea!
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:26 am

Chuckaluphagus wrote:
I once had a random drunk see me wearing a Red Hat developer t-shirt and -- entirely unprompted and out of the blue -- proceed to loudly chew me out for being a "sellout", proclaiming that the only real ethical choice was FreeBSD. It was quite a spectacle.


If he uses FreeBSD there was nothing random about him being drunk.

Captain Ned wrote:
Ah, RMS on one of his bad days.


"Bad"?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hFt9jfI4bw
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:05 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Waco wrote:
I guess so.  In the end, I see many more *nix (Mac and Linux mostily) users blindly entering passwords because they trust that the system is safe.  It only takes one bad entry to own the machine.

That said, I'm not going to type in my password when all of the sudden my system asks me for my password out of the blue. That would be a very big red flag.

Usually it happens when the person *is* expecting the prompt. They download software and install it, not knowing it's malware.

This would be marginally harder on LInux since you'll install almost everything through your package manager, but there .debs and .rpms and the like.
 
whm1974
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:22 pm

BobbinThreadbare wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Waco wrote:
I guess so.  In the end, I see many more *nix (Mac and Linux mostily) users blindly entering passwords because they trust that the system is safe.  It only takes one bad entry to own the machine.

That said, I'm not going to type in my password when all of the sudden my system asks me for my password out of the blue. That would be a very big red flag.

Usually it happens when the person *is* expecting the prompt. They download software and install it, not knowing it's malware.

This would be marginally harder on LInux since you'll install almost everything through your package manager, but there .debs and .rpms and the like.

Yeah this is why I stick to the official repos.
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:57 am

whm1974 wrote:
BobbinThreadbare wrote:
Usually it happens when the person *is* expecting the prompt. They download software and install it, not knowing it's malware.

This would be marginally harder on LInux since you'll install almost everything through your package manager, but there .debs and .rpms and the like.

Yeah this is why I stick to the official repos.

I generally do as well, but make a small number of exceptions.

Chrome and VirtualBox are a given on all of my Linux desktop/laptop systems, and those get installed via .deb packages downloaded direct from Google and Oracle. (Chromium is missing features, and neither Chromium nor VirtualBox gets updated in a timely manner in Ubuntu's repos when new releases come out.)

Beyond that, there are occasional out-of-tree drivers to fix a bug or support some obscure device (system health monitoring chips seem to be a sore spot), and updated packages that haven't made it into the official repos yet. For these I either try to use the official upstream source and build it myself, or (if a PPA or other unofficial source) do a little due diligence with Google to see if there are any red flags.
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whm1974
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:17 am

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
BobbinThreadbare wrote:
Usually it happens when the person *is* expecting the prompt. They download software and install it, not knowing it's malware.

This would be marginally harder on LInux since you'll install almost everything through your package manager, but there .debs and .rpms and the like.

Yeah this is why I stick to the official repos.

I generally do as well, but make a small number of exceptions.

Chrome and VirtualBox are a given on all of my Linux desktop/laptop systems, and those get installed via .deb packages downloaded direct from Google and Oracle. (Chromium is missing features, and neither Chromium nor VirtualBox gets updated in a timely manner in Ubuntu's repos when new releases come out.)

Beyond that, there are occasional out-of-tree drivers to fix a bug or support some obscure device (system health monitoring chips seem to be a sore spot), and updated packages that haven't made it into the official repos yet. For these I either try to use the official upstream source and build it myself, or (if a PPA or other unofficial source) do a little due diligence with Google to see if there are any red flags.

I use the AUR along with Manjaro's official repos, with games downloaded from Steam along with a few titles from GOG.com using Wine. But yeah I'm kind of wary of using third party repos and packages.
 
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:29 am

whm1974 wrote:
I use the AUR along with Manjaro's official repos, with games downloaded from Steam along with a few titles from GOG.com using Wine. But yeah I'm kind of wary of using third party repos and packages.

I assume AUR is similar to Ubuntu's PPAs? Third-party packages hosted (but not curated/maintained) by the distro?
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whm1974
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Re: Linux Mythbusting

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:46 am

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I use the AUR along with Manjaro's official repos, with games downloaded from Steam along with a few titles from GOG.com using Wine. But yeah I'm kind of wary of using third party repos and packages.

I assume AUR is similar to Ubuntu's PPAs? Third-party packages hosted (but not curated/maintained) by the distro?

Arch User Repository. A sort of semi-official repo curated and maintained by Arch users themselves. Sometimes every so often a package will get moved to the official one.  

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