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whm1974
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Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:33 pm

OK with all the crap Microsoft has been doing with Windows 10 like the forced updates, spyware, and now adware in File Explorer, I'm being to wonder has Linux become far easier to use? I mean Linux users can update when they choose to, they are also able to use their computers while updating, don't have to deal with malware, or forced to look at ads in the OS. On top of this, Linux doesn't get in our way when we are using our systems.

I thought Windows 8 was bad enough with it's Metro interface Microsoft tried to force on everyone, but at least there is a solid OS there. Will Windows users get tired of MS's crap and begin to switch over to Linux? It looks like to me that Microsoft has shot themselves in both feet this time. They are their worst enemy.

So what do my fellow Linux users think?
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:52 pm

No.

Also, it should be "Is Linux getting easier to use than Windows?"
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:54 pm

I think from seeing you two recent posts, that you seem like a really insecure person who tries to gain self worth by your choice of technology platforms. Chill out man.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:55 pm

If you are using Windows 10, it's pretty clear you are using Windows 10. The user experience isn't just somewhat unified, but universal.

Using "linux"? Other than how I know they have the kernel, I don't really know anything.

It runs deep. I use "Ubuntu" but if someone with no prior experience in the subject got handed a USB drive with Ubuntu and installed it, they'd be completely baffled by my system. It wouldn't look or act anything like what they have. They'd probably be completely lost, a situation which transcends any GUI customization I've done in a less popular Desktop Environment, but how most of my life involves the CLI and associated scripts. The majority of the reminder of the time is on web interfaces. I can't even think of an actual non-browser GUI application I regularly use, maybe crashplan(which is an X client on a headless server elsewhere in the house in my case, I don't even have it natively installed!)?

Likewise, I have plenty of experience, but I have absolutely no clue what unity looks like. I'm sure I could figure it out, but this sort of situation any meaning that question "Is linux easier to use" could possibly provide.

How can anyone answer that? There's no one "linux", maybe at best a particular Desktop Environment (kinda)?
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:03 pm

bwoodring wrote:
I think from seeing you two recent posts, that you seem like a really insecure person who tries to gain self worth by your choice of technology platforms. Chill out man.

I'm glad someone else wrote it so I wouldn't have to.

It's not Windows, Windows users or Linux that scare off potential Linux users or those wanting to test it out. What scares them off are other Linux users, either the RMS fanboys (it's not Linux! It's GNU/Linux!) or the Windows bashers who spew out generic hatred at a kindergarten level.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:10 pm

"Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?"

For this, we queue up a simple thought experiment: You have [insert flavor here] Linux installed. You decide to upgrade your video card.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:11 pm

Linux Mint (MATE) is probably easier for someone who's used to Windows XP to use than Windows 10 would be.

The main problem is software - not being able to use most/any Windows programs is a showstopper for a lot of people.

That said, if you pick the right distribution for the job, and mainly play media and browse the web, "Linux" in its current state is better than fine.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:15 pm

ludi wrote:
"Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?"

For this, we queue up a simple thought experiment: You have [insert flavor here] Linux installed. You decide to upgrade your video card.

I guess, but why would anyone need to upgrade for Quake 3 in 2017?

Err, I guess Doom 3 also had a Linux port.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:18 pm

I like thought experiments, but real life is more fun.

You're using Windows 7. You can't upgrade to SP1 (I mean, really can't, as in you paid for a MS support call and they gave up). You start up a Recent Game only to have it crash due to not meeting the requirements (SP1).
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:26 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
I like thought experiments, but real life is more fun.

You're using Windows 7. You can't upgrade to SP1 (I mean, really can't, as in you paid for a MS support call and they gave up). You start up a Recent Game only to have it crash due to not meeting the requirements (SP1).

Well, if you insist on using outdated versions of Linux you'll get similar problems there, as well. Apples to apples and all that.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:31 pm

ludi wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
I like thought experiments, but real life is more fun.

You're using Windows 7. You can't upgrade to SP1 (I mean, really can't, as in you paid for a MS support call and they gave up). You start up a Recent Game only to have it crash due to not meeting the requirements (SP1).

Well, if you insist on using outdated versions of Linux you'll get similar problems there, as well. Apples to apples and all that.


Mint 14 isn't exactly new, but ARK will run on it but not Windows. YMMV and all that.
 
whm1974
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:32 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Linux Mint (MATE) is probably easier for someone who's used to Windows XP to use than Windows 10 would be.

The main problem is software - not being able to use most/any Windows programs is a showstopper for a lot of people.

That said, if you pick the right distribution for the job, and mainly play media and browse the web, "Linux" in its current state is better than fine.

Well I understand the software problem, I went through that when I first started using Linux back in 2002(?). But over the years Linux has become far easier for me to use then Windows. Yes there was a learning curve, but you'll have this no matter which platform you look at at.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:35 pm

You could just as well ask whether cats are better than dogs, or apples better than bananas. Without additional context the question is meaningless.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:39 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Will Windows users get tired of MS's crap and begin to switch over to Linux?


I think this will never happen. For a while it seemed like every year was the "year of the linux desktop" to Linux users, that this was definitely the year it would gain real marketshare vs Windows, and every year it didn't happen. For two main reasons:

1) most linux users are self-important jerks who have no patience for new users and their totally legit usability concerns, and most linux developers are even worse, which is why, for instance, it took six years to get an adjustable mouse cursor size added back in as an accessibility option after it was removed

2) there is no "linux" for everyone to use. There's at least three popular distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, SUSE), each with equally rabid fanbases, all who don't like any of the others, and then even if you can settle on one of those you have to wade through choice of desktop environment or related spins (Mint vs. Ubuntu, for instance)

Until the day when the default response to a genuine newbie question is no longer "just copy paste this into the terminal and stop wasting our time", and there's one reference version for Linux as a platform, it won't be a valid option for most people.

It is sitting in the same place Windows systems were back in the 95/98 days, where you still had to know command line stuff, autoexec and config.sys, booted into DOS to play half of your games and had to direct-dial your friends with manually-entered modem init strings to play Warcraft II or Doom multiplayer. A lot of us excelled in those days, but when people still ask how to connect their printer in Windows 10 - which auto-detects printers and installs drivers without any user intervention whatsoever - don't fool yourself into thinking that people would be happy with Linux on their home PCs.

And I'm saying this as someone who has been running Ubuntu as a primary OS since 7.04, and gaming on it heavily since Steam for Ubuntu launched in early 2013.

Bonus hot take as a linux user: most Linux UIs are also still trying to be Windows 95/98, because developers think endless submenus are great and why would anyone need anything else.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:48 pm

ludi wrote:
"Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?"

For this, we queue up a simple thought experiment: You have [insert flavor here] Linux installed. You decide to upgrade your video card.


<3

I mean, I can stumble around bash about as badly as I used to stumble around DOS, or now stumble around Windows command line and powershell. As for the GUI and everyday usage, I can barely recognise one version of KDE from another and there are dozens of different GUIs, all as different and incompatible with my GUI knowledge as the next.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:54 pm

deruberhanyok wrote:

And I'm saying this as someone who has been running Ubuntu as a primary OS since 7.04, and gaming on it heavily since Steam for Ubuntu launched in early 2013.

Bonus hot take as a linux user: most Linux UIs are also still trying to be Windows 95/98, because developers think endless submenus are great and why would anyone need anything else.


The UI was never the real problem. As you can see from Windows 8/10 adoption (and Windows Vista adoption before those).

The issue with Linux on the Desktop is that MS has caved and made Windows free for personal use. That's it, stick a fork in Linux, it's done.

Free-as-in-beer was why I originally thought that Linux would *eventually* have a Year, but now, who knows?
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:57 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Mint 14 isn't exactly new, but ARK will run on it but not Windows. YMMV and all that.

One relatively new application; compared utilizing a particularly good Linux system against one particularly buggy and obsolete Windows system; brought to bear as a counterpoint to a general hardware/driver situation that has impacted nearly every Linux distro for years?

I'm starting to see from whence Glorious gets his blood pressure issues.

I'm neither a Linux expert nor a basher, by the way. I have an Ubuntu 16.04 workstation sitting under the desk right now, for much the same reason I have an Android phone and an Apple tablet: I like to keep my feet wet in every ecosystem. Linux has made great strides and Ubuntu is one of the best in terms of user-friendly driver support and availability of automated installation packages, but even then I've spent a decent amount of time troubleshooting things in CLI.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:01 pm

ludi wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
Mint 14 isn't exactly new, but ARK will run on it but not Windows. YMMV and all that.

One relatively new application; compared utilizing a particularly good Linux system against one particularly buggy and obsolete Windows system; brought to bear as a counterpoint to a general hardware/driver situation that has impacted nearly every Linux distro for years?

I'm starting to see from whence Glorious gets his blood pressure issues.


I agree it's a bad example. No one was more surprised to find that out than me. However, thanks to that dual-boot PC, it's been easy for me to see that most non-AAA games within the past few years has had at least a crummy Linux port. Yay Valve?
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:09 pm

ludi wrote:
I'm starting to see from whence Glorious gets his blood pressure issues.


VIDEO DRIVERS ON LINUX DEFINITELY DO NOT HELP.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:10 pm

deruberhanyok wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Will Windows users get tired of MS's crap and begin to switch over to Linux?


I think this will never happen. For a while it seemed like every year was the "year of the linux desktop" to Linux users, that this was definitely the year it would gain real marketshare vs Windows, and every year it didn't happen. For two main reasons:

1) most linux users are self-important jerks who have no patience for new users and their totally legit usability concerns, and most linux developers are even worse, which is why, for instance, it took six years to get an adjustable mouse cursor size added back in as an accessibility option after it was removed

2) there is no "linux" for everyone to use. There's at least three popular distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, SUSE), each with equally rabid fanbases, all who don't like any of the others, and then even if you can settle on one of those you have to wade through choice of desktop environment or related spins (Mint vs. Ubuntu, for instance)

Until the day when the default response to a genuine newbie question is no longer "just copy paste this into the terminal and stop wasting our time", and there's one reference version for Linux as a platform, it won't be a valid option for most people.

1) This has been changing over the last few years as there are more "noob" friendly distros and forums now than there were. Manjaro and it's forum, which I use is very helpful to new Linux users. And yes I do agree that things can still be improved in these matters.

2) Anyone thinking of moving to another platform should do their research. This does apply even if you are considering switching over to MacOS. I did my research before I installed my first distro. In fact, it is much easier now that live media is available which wasn't when I started.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:13 pm

Glorious wrote:
ludi wrote:
I'm starting to see from whence Glorious gets his blood pressure issues.


VIDEO DRIVERS ON LINUX DEFINITELY DO NOT HELP.

Yes that is indeed an area where there is room for improvement. And for the record, I have never claimed that Linux is perfect.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:22 pm

The majority of Windows users don't even notice the antics of Microsoft. They do not concern themselves with the innards of a PC unless absolutely necessary. You consort with the strange people who do.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:25 pm

You consort with the strange people who do.


Heck, I got one of those cheap win10 tablets.

I don't pay attention to any of those antics either. The thing just works.

This is coming from one of those strange people. :lol:
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:25 pm

DancinJack wrote:
No.

Also, it should be "Is Linux getting easier to use than Windows?"


This. So much, this.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:30 pm

Glorious wrote:
You consort with the strange people who do.


Heck, I got one of those cheap win10 tablets.

I don't pay attention to any of those antics either. The thing just works.

This is coming from one of those strange people. :lol:


Apparently I'm weird, even among them. :P
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whm1974
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:39 pm

Redocbew wrote:
The majority of Windows users don't even notice the antics of Microsoft. They do not concern themselves with the innards of a PC unless absolutely necessary. You consort with the strange people who do.

And these folks wonder why they have such a malware problem. :roll:
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:51 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
The majority of Windows users don't even notice the antics of Microsoft. They do not concern themselves with the innards of a PC unless absolutely necessary. You consort with the strange people who do.

And these folks wonder why they have such a malware problem. :roll:

It would not surprise me if poorly secured devices (routers, IoT, etc.) running embedded Linux are a bigger threat today than infected desktops. Furthermore, phishing and other forms of social engineering attacks are completely OS-agnostic.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:58 pm

whm1974 wrote:
And these folks wonder why they have such a malware problem. :roll:


I took a course in college specifically about viruses and malware where we had a cart of sacrificial lab machines on their own isolated network that would get trashed and re-imaged repeatedly. They were all running Windows. Care to take a guess what happened the first time we tried to take one of those machines down? Nothing. It was much harder to cause any kind of significant damage than any of us(including the instructor) expected it to be. The point being, malware isn't something that "just happens". It has to be targeted, and the efforts of targeting a system need to be sustained or it'll just be a waste of time.
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:50 pm

Valve has the money to make a good linux distro for everyone. They also have the presence to effectively force game devs to make linux ports. Who knows if they will or not but they could.
 
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Re: Is Linux getting easier to use then Windows?

Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:51 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Redocbew wrote:
The majority of Windows users don't even notice the antics of Microsoft. They do not concern themselves with the innards of a PC unless absolutely necessary. You consort with the strange people who do.

And these folks wonder why they have such a malware problem. :roll:

It would not surprise me if poorly secured devices (routers, IoT, etc.) running embedded Linux are a bigger threat today than infected desktops. Furthermore, phishing and other forms of social engineering attacks are completely OS-agnostic.


I'm immune to Social Engineering - my Windows RT tablet won't work with most of those techniques. I'm at a loss for what my next mobile device will be - this one is (almost) malware-proof.

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