Moderator: Captain Ned
Captain Ned wrote:Couple of questions first:
Is the receiver doing the high/low crossover or is the sub doing it?
Is it a passive or powered sub?
Waco wrote:I'll be the oddball and say build your own. It's very slightly over your budget but would definitely be more than you'll probably ever want: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdet ... er=300-770
UltimateImperative wrote:It depends on the design, really, but 250 W could be plenty for a reasonably sensitive subwoofer (large cabinet, properly chosen woofer for the design).
Captain Ned wrote:UltimateImperative wrote:It depends on the design, really, but 250 W could be plenty for a reasonably sensitive subwoofer (large cabinet, properly chosen woofer for the design).
Depends on what we want out of a sub. If it's movie-related crashes/booms, it'd do OK. If you're trying to accurately replay E. Power Biggs' recording of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor, you need many large cones and absurd wattage.
OTOH, you could do this:
cynan wrote:Generally, you start requiring absurd wattage when you try and get more output from a smaller cabinet, especially if sealed. But 250W can go a long way with a sensitive driver and a big ported cabinet - to the point where you could get more output/extension with a 250W amp in the right ported enclosure than a sealed sub with a 1000W amp that is half the size.
danny e. wrote:That's not really building your own, now is it? You're paying for a pre-selected woofer, pre-selected amp, pre-selected cabinet. You're paying $339 for the joy of screwing together sub-par parts. 250 watt amp is not enough power to drive a 15" sub. At least not if you still want good sounding bass. My opinion... and it's not worth much but there it is.
Ifalna wrote:Ok, I have a stupid question:
How on earth can it be that you need more than a 250W Sub in an apartment?
I'm running around with an El-Cheapo™ 16W Creative sub and I barely dare to turn the volume up, because I don't want my Neighbors to wave Torches and Pitchforks.
In fact, I can't really enjoy music/movies via speakers at all, that's why I prefer to use my DT880s.
I'm just asking if I miss some super secret sound absorbing forcefield generator that lets you blast in your flat and not aggravate the neighbors.
Ifalna wrote:I'm running around with an El-Cheapo™ 16W Creative sub and I barely dare to turn the volume up, because I don't want my Neighbors to wave Torches and Pitchforks.
DarkUltra wrote:All this neighbor angst. I have a 15" sub and play movies in the weekend at -24dba on my receiver reference (-24 to what they play at cinemas I think) and have never had a single complaint. But I play lower when I play games (well, except games with good audio and bass like Crysis 2 and BF3) and do turn down the volume after 22:00 if I play games, even in the weekend. No complaints after four years.
I live in a 13 floor apartment block with concrete walls and ceilings.
ludi wrote:Meanwhile, the world about us seems to have a natural resonant frequency at 60Hz, and humans can hear that frequency quite well, too. Most of the "punchy" bass output from small stereos and and computer 2.1 systems is centered around this range, because it is relatively easy to produce and gets a positive reaction from customers. It also tends to travel through walls and generate irate phone calls from neighbors.
Real subwoofers often pick up at 50Hz or lower, and any sub worth owning should go below 30Hz, preferably to at least 25Hz. These frequencies are much harder to produce with appreciable volume, and it takes a tremendous amount of energy to reproduce these audibly. Find yourself a really good sub that goes down below 20Hz and then run a 20Hz test tone through it, and just at the threshold of audibility (if you can hear it at all -- many people can't), you'll hear a loud crash in the other room and discover that you no longer own a china cabinet.
ludi wrote:It is possible to nearly eliminate the noise transference, generally by either (a) using steel framing and heavy concrete for all floors and unit perimeter walls, or (b) building wood frame with a double firewall and insulation between all units. Most US apartments, and many older condominiums and townhomes, are not built this way, especially outside of urban cores.
In short, a little neighbor angst is generally a good thing.
cynan wrote:This. It should be illegal to build an apartment or condo building without proper noise isolation (ie, concrete between units). Or at the very least, required by law to plainly state degree noise isolation. I've spent my time in older buildings with issues in this area and it really can be a huge restriction on personal privacy/freedom. While I've never had someone running a bordello next door, I did live in an older townhouse where the staircase was next to the adjoining wall. Every time I walked down the stairs after 10 PM, I'd have the neighbor at my door. Never mind audio systems. I didn't last long there. But I suppose some people would just call this a "first-world problem".
ludi wrote:No mention of which speaker sizes and models the OP is currently using, but if you're using a smaller sub (say, 8") or else crossing over the sub fairly high up to compensate for smaller mains, that may be contributing to the overheating problem -- the subwoofer is doing more work than it really should. HTIB and computer 2.1 speakers are designed to operate this way since the "subwoofer" is really just filling in for two woofers that don't exist, while home theater subwoofers are meant to pick up material that the mains cannot handle.
In the former case, stepping up to a larger sub (at least 10", and preferably 12" given your limited price range) should help. In the latter case, you may want to sell your current sub and the mains, then take that and the extra $300 and purchase a pair of tower speakers rated down to about 45Hz.