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Buzzard44
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:50 pm

Welcome!

I know you say LANL is huge and thus you don't know 90% of the people, there, but do you know any folks that work on HPSS? Or perhaps you store your data in HPSS? If so, I work on that software at IBM (with help from some of you at LANL and ANL and SNL and a few other labs)!

I just get really excited when I hear about someone who may be using or perhaps even know our software, since so few people do.

Long live tape drives!
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:47 am

Buzzard44 wrote:
Welcome!

I know you say LANL is huge and thus you don't know 90% of the people, there, but do you know any folks that work on HPSS? Or perhaps you store your data in HPSS? If so, I work on that software at IBM (with help from some of you at LANL and ANL and SNL and a few other labs)!

I just get really excited when I hear about someone who may be using or perhaps even know our software, since so few people do.

Long live tape drives!

She doesn't, but I do. I'm not sure I'm at liberty to say anything about HPSS and how it is or isn't used. :P

I wouldn't bet on tapes being terribly long-lived in the world of exascale though...
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:48 pm

Waco wrote:
She doesn't, but I do. I'm not sure I'm at liberty to say anything about HPSS and how it is or isn't used. :P

Let's all be careful with potential Real Life Rule #1 violations. Don't want to see anyone lose a clearance (or worse) because of something said here.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Fri Mar 15, 2013 3:05 pm

Waco wrote:
I wouldn't bet on tapes being terribly long-lived in the world of exascale though...

The imminent death of tape has been predicted many times, and has not yet come to pass. For data that does not require near-instant access, it cannot be beat for cost/GB or physical storage density. Tape has played a role in the IT infrastructure of every job I've had since the 1980s, including my current one.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:15 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Let's all be careful with potential Real Life Rule #1 violations. Don't want to see anyone lose a clearance (or worse) because of something said here.

That'd be why I didn't say anything. :P

just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
I wouldn't bet on tapes being terribly long-lived in the world of exascale though...

The imminent death of tape has been predicted many times, and has not yet come to pass. For data that does not require near-instant access, it cannot be beat for cost/GB or physical storage density. Tape has played a role in the IT infrastructure of every job I've had since the 1980s, including my current one.

I understand that - but at least for HPC purposes - I don't see them lasting much longer bar some amazing breakthrough in tape technology.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:26 pm

Waco wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
Let's all be careful with potential Real Life Rule #1 violations. Don't want to see anyone lose a clearance (or worse) because of something said here.

That'd be why I didn't say anything. :P

Just reminding others, maybe in too backhand a way, not to ask questions that won't be answered once the original "can't answer" has been proffered.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:27 pm

Gotcha. :lol:
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:56 pm

Cpt. Ned, agent of GSA. :P
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:05 pm

Waco wrote:
I understand that - but at least for HPC purposes - I don't see them lasting much longer bar some amazing breakthrough in tape technology.

Well... while it is true that there haven't been any amazing breakthroughs, capacity and speed does continue to improve. LTO cartridges store 2.5 TB each, and can stream data at 160 MB/sec, with a roadmap for future drives to store 12.8 TB at 472 MB/sec.

(We use LTO tapes to back up our Windows server at work.)
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:13 pm

Forge wrote:
Cpt. Ned, agent of GSA. :P

I wish I had a Federal job. Assuming the exact same duties I'd be paid twice what I earn for the State.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:27 pm

Tapes -- I scoff at them every time I walk by. I generally hope to see them move -- but other than that -- tapes :shakeshead:
 
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:38 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
I understand that - but at least for HPC purposes - I don't see them lasting much longer bar some amazing breakthrough in tape technology.

Well... while it is true that there haven't been any amazing breakthroughs, capacity and speed does continue to improve. LTO cartridges store 2.5 TB each, and can stream data at 160 MB/sec, with a roadmap for future drives to store 12.8 TB at 472 MB/sec.

(We use LTO tapes to back up our Windows server at work.)


I didn't realize that tapes were still so relevant- we don't have that level of storage or archival needs, but man, that beats the hell out of Blu-ray. Heck, that beats everything except SSDs for plug-and-archive speeds.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:34 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
I didn't realize that tapes were still so relevant- we don't have that level of storage or archival needs, but man, that beats the hell out of Blu-ray. Heck, that beats everything except SSDs for plug-and-archive speeds.

Except that the drives themselves cost north of $50k. :P
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:45 pm

Waco wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
I didn't realize that tapes were still so relevant- we don't have that level of storage or archival needs, but man, that beats the hell out of Blu-ray. Heck, that beats everything except SSDs for plug-and-archive speeds.

Except that the drives themselves cost north of $50k. :P


That's new too :). I guess that's the price payed to continue development for a technology so few are interested in these days. Used to be able to pick up drives and tapes off the shelf at CompUSA.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Sun Mar 17, 2013 11:08 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
That's new too :). I guess that's the price payed to continue development for a technology so few are interested in these days. Used to be able to pick up drives and tapes off the shelf at CompUSA.

Nah, Newegg has a Quantum LTO-5 drive that holds 16 tape cartridges and runs on a 6 Gb SAS input for only $3,540. 24 TB of native capacity, 48 TB with perfect compression. The LTO-6 version (not yet on sale on "consumer" sites) claims 2.5 TB native and 6.25 TB compressed per cart. Fibre Channel doubles the cost.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:45 am

Hooray! People actually know about HPSS! We're mainstream!

Yeah, definitely wasn't trying to get into any confidential material. It's public knowledge that the DOE uses HPSS - y'all were even on one of our slides at Supercomputing this year.

I think tape still has some life...if you have a very large amount of archive data that you rarely plan to access. Then the shelf life of tape and power savings will work out for you. Otherwise, it's not too well suited.

I'm kinda surprised that most tapes are actually lagging behind disks in terms of storage capacity. Other than the T10KC tapes, I don't think too many are past 3.2 TB.

Anyway, I'm just happy to know that other gerbils know what I'm talking about.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:03 am

Forge wrote:
Cpt. Ned, agent of GSA. :P
They all wear very spiffy, but very generic looking, suits.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:43 am

Darkmage wrote:
Forge wrote:
Cpt. Ned, agent of GSA. :P
They all wear very spiffy, but very generic looking, suits.

Nah, we're in polos & khakis these days. Blend in better.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:05 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
That's new too :). I guess that's the price payed to continue development for a technology so few are interested in these days. Used to be able to pick up drives and tapes off the shelf at CompUSA.

Nah, Newegg has a Quantum LTO-5 drive that holds 16 tape cartridges and runs on a 6 Gb SAS input for only $3,540. 24 TB of native capacity, 48 TB with perfect compression. The LTO-6 version (not yet on sale on "consumer" sites) claims 2.5 TB native and 6.25 TB compressed per cart. Fibre Channel doubles the cost.

Can those run in a tape silo with a robot? I'll admit, I don't know much about tapes or the drives, but I don't think those drives are the type that end up in silos.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:10 am

Waco wrote:
Can those run in a tape silo with a robot? I'll admit, I don't know much about tapes or the drives, but I don't think those drives are the type that end up in silos.

Each drive has its own built-in robot, so it's stuck with the carts loaded in the magazine. Still, 48 (or 100 for LTO-6) TB in a 2U enclosure is nothing to sneeze at.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:44 pm

Any of you HPC guys coming to GTC then? If I had known, I could have sent some discount codes.. drop me a PM, I'll be around the Convention Center tomorrow...
 
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:56 pm

I wish. I'm stuck working. :P
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:32 pm

Wasn't this thread supposed to be about ME!?!?! lol. Shheeesh. :(
 
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:39 pm

BluePanda wrote:
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about ME!?!?! lol. Shheeesh. :(

Attention whore. :D
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:11 am

That's what I love about the Tech Report - its purity. (Saying that kinda made me feel like the guy on Alien.)

On many tech sites, one might see, "ZOMG a gurl want to go on a date with m3?" Here, data storage technology will trump even a seemingly friendly, intelligent, and tech savvy female. And that's how it should be. Why? My girlfriend could dump me whenever she feels like it, but I've always got an offsite backup of my data. And my precious, precious data is fast, easy, and faithful. I rest my case.

Welcome to TR!
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:15 am

Buzzard44 wrote:
That's what I love about the Tech Report - its purity. (Saying that kinda made me feel like the guy on Alien.)

On many tech sites, one might see, "ZOMG a gurl want to go on a date with m3?" Here, data storage technology will trump even a seemingly friendly, intelligent, and tech savvy female. And that's how it should be. Why? My girlfriend could dump me whenever she feels like it, but I've always got an offsite backup of my data. And my precious, precious data is fast, easy, and faithful. I rest my case.

Welcome to TR!


That paraphrase was science officer Ash. With that, I have again demonstrated my awesomeness. BP, ready to dump Waco and spend your life chasing me yet?? ;p
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:18 am

<Facepalm> Well, at least you got your attention.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:22 am

Buzzard44 wrote:
<Facepalm> Well, at least you got your attention.


I may not always be the life of the party, but I'm never boring.
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:29 am

Forge wrote:
That paraphrase was science officer Ash. With that, I have again demonstrated my awesomeness. BP, ready to dump Waco and spend your life chasing me yet?? ;p

Today is a landmark. I just realized Ian Holm was in Aliens. I clearly have not seen that movie in far too long. Time to break out the Quadrilogy!
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Re: NOOOOOOOB

Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:16 am

Waco wrote:
Forge wrote:
That paraphrase was science officer Ash. With that, I have again demonstrated my awesomeness. BP, ready to dump Waco and spend your life chasing me yet?? ;p

Today is a landmark. I just realized Ian Holm was in Aliens. I clearly have not seen that movie in far too long. Time to break out the Quadrilogy!

Alien. Not Aliens. Lance Henriksen was the android in Aliens.
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