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chuckula
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Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Mon May 02, 2016 9:29 pm

So anand just posted an article about the Skylake H parts that have recently been released: http://anandtech.com/show/10281/intel-a ... -65w-edram

These parts rock a full quad core Skylake with [up to] 8 MB of L3 cache and the long-rumored full-size GT4 GPU along with a 128MB L4 cache chip on-package. They come in TDPs of 65 watts although lower-power variants with cut-down clocks like those in the upcoming Skull Canyon NUC go down to 45 watts or so.

Here's an interesting thing about their die sizes: I did some pixel counting and got 234 mm^2 using two different techniques, so I'm pretty sure that's a close approximation:
1. Using the picture of the motherboard from the anandtech article and knowing that the long set of pins on a DDR4 SO-DIMM is 35.5 mm, the scaled X*Y dimensions of the Skylake chip come out to 234 mm^2 [Source on SO-DIMM: https://www.micron.com/~/media/document ... gx72hz.pdf ]

2. Using the known die size [84 mm^2] of the Crystalwell cache that's on-package with the CPU and doing an area ratio comparison. [Crystalwell cache die size source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6993/inte ... q-tested/3 ]

All of my measurements are based on this photo from Anand's story: http://images.anandtech.com/doci/10281/ ... _CS170.jpg

Recall that a regular quad-core Skylake is confirmed to be 122.4 mm^2. So this chip, which is pretty much regular quad-core Skylake + bigger IGP is coming in at about 112 mm^2 bigger than regular desktop Skylake. Now, the GT4 IGP in these big Skylakes is supposed to be triple [72 EUs] the size of the 24 EU IGP in regular desktop Skylake. So, doing a little comparative analysis, the marginal 112 mm^2 represents twice the size of the IGP in regular Skylake -- or -- the regular IGP in Skylake is 56 mm^2. Out of a 122.4 mm^2 die, that's 56 / 122.4 = 0.457 ~= 46% of the die size going to the IGP. Put another way, regular Skylake sans any GPU but still including cache + PCIe + memory controller would be a 66.4 mm^2 chip... not very big compared to many smartphone SoCs, much less larger CPUs from the old days!

On to these chips in more detail, the total die area devoted to the GPU comes out to about 168 mm^2 or roughly 71.6% of the chip[!] Additionally, the die size is quite large for an Intel consumer part, coming out to being only 11 mm^2 smaller than AMD's Kaveri or Carrizo parts. That ratio for the GPU even beats AMD's ratios for their biggest IGPs compared to other components on the chip. We'll see how it performs when TR gets to review it.
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Mon May 02, 2016 9:44 pm

That's interesting. Hopefully DX12's heterogenous multi-GPU can put it to use when paired with a discrete card. Would be a shame if such a huge chunk of the chip goes unused.
 
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Mon May 02, 2016 10:06 pm

Interesting stuff. Thanks for doing the work, chuckula.
 
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Mon May 02, 2016 10:34 pm

The actual CPU cores have been estimated at 6.5-7.5mm^2 each if I recall. I believe that includes the L2 but don't quote me on it. If the L2 was counted I think the reasoning was due to it being so tightly integrated into the core.

Which leaves us 35-40mm^2 for fixed stuff.

Maybe now RWT has a search function it will be easy to find the thread on it.

I5-6585R first Intel CPU I'm really interested in for a long time in possibility of buying.

Thank you OP
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 7:54 am

Not a retail CPU though, being FCBGA1440, presumably buying it will involve an attached lump of computer, maybe with a fruity logo 8)

Nice post chuckula, made me think about the potential performance of that IGP and the comparison of its FP32/FP64 capabilities to that of the CPU part of the SoC: IGP = 1324.8 / 331.2, CPU = 422.4/ 211.2*

For context, that DP figure on the IGP in this consumer Intel CPU is higher than available in any current generation NVIDIA consumer product, and from AMD only the Radeon R9 390 and up have more grunt. Nicely played, Intel.

* (That's at base clock for the CPU, as I don't know what the AVX clock range is; assuming at base a little lower and at turbo a little higher, the IGP could still dominate the CPU for the sort of work you could chuck at it.)
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 8:18 am

so intel is more of a gpu company than a cpu company now? :lol:
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chuckula
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 8:25 am

f0d wrote:
so intel is more of a gpu company than a cpu company now? :lol:


It's true that on a percentage basis those parts are basically low-end GPUs with a CPU tacked onto the side.
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 9:05 am

That throw-in CPU is still better than anything that AMD has yet produced. Imagine if Intel actually gave a **** about single-threaded x86 performance.
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 11:34 am

f0d wrote:
so intel is more of a gpu company than a cpu company now? :lol:

I guess it needed to follow AMD's lead there :wink:
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 12:53 pm

f0d wrote:
so intel is more of a gpu company than a cpu company now? :lol:

No, their process is still beavily optimized towards their CPUs. Xeon is the real moneymaker still.
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NoOne ButMe
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 12:56 pm

Topinio wrote:
Not a retail CPU though, being FCBGA1440, presumably buying it will involve an attached lump of computer, maybe with a fruity logo 8)

dammit *weeps* there goes a sub $450 strong 4C CPU and good GPU performance build.
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the
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 1:34 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
That throw-in CPU is still better than anything that AMD has yet produced. Imagine if Intel actually gave a **** about single-threaded x86 performance.


Intel cares about power consumption. They do have idea about how to improve single threaded performance but won't implement them if they increase power consumption disproportionately.

On the bright side, Intel does appear to be implemented different but distinctly related cores between consumer and workstation/server CPU lines now. The core inside of SkyLake-E/EP/EX is going to have AVX 512 and 512 KB of L2 cache per core (compared to 256 KB on consumer parts). The increase in L2 cache should further singled threaded performance by a notch in the general case and AVX 512 should provide nearly double for the parallel niche that takes advantage of new CPU extensions. I do see the consumer and server lines diverging more in the future though you'll still be able to tell that they're related.

What Intel really needs to do is develop a new CPU core from the ground up from scratch. Airmont was the last time they did this and it worked out rather well considering the result and target market (mobile). With each node lasting longer the market, it could even be necessary to get existing server customers to upgrade. Outside of increasing core counts, Intel hasn't been aggressive on the server side of things.
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the
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 1:35 pm

NoOne ButMe wrote:
f0d wrote:
so intel is more of a gpu company than a cpu company now? :lol:

No, their process is still beavily optimized towards their CPUs. Xeon is the real moneymaker still.


I'd argue that their process is targeted toward SRAM. Despite having on-die GPUs and chipset, most of the die is still cache.
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 1:50 pm

the wrote:
NoOne ButMe wrote:
f0d wrote:
so intel is more of a gpu company than a cpu company now? :lol:

No, their process is still beavily optimized towards their CPUs. Xeon is the real moneymaker still.


I'd argue that their process is targeted toward SRAM. Despite having on-die GPUs and chipset, most of the die is still cache.


I would say their process is targeted towards high CPU performance at minimal power usage. Given the choice for most of their products I think Intel would choose faster SRAM over denser SRAM. They can control yields he best in the industry, so what is a few extra mm^2 for that extra 20% performance to enable 50% higher price?

Maybe a better way to put it is the process isn't what optimal for a GPU. I think we can agree on that
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 3:39 pm

Intel,

Give me 150mm^2 Octa Core 16 thread CPU with 16MB Cache +128MB SRAM already!
Keep your GPU, I don't need it!

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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 4:05 pm

NoOne ButMe wrote:
No, their process is still beavily optimized towards their CPUs. Xeon is the real moneymaker still.


Yes, absolutely. That's Intel's trade secret that they've protected all these years. Process engineering optimized by beavers.

I, for one, will stick to being a gerbil.
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NoOne ButMe
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Tue May 03, 2016 11:25 pm

Redocbew wrote:
NoOne ButMe wrote:
No, their process is still beavily optimized towards their CPUs. Xeon is the real moneymaker still.


Yes, absolutely. That's Intel's trade secret that they've protected all these years. Process engineering optimized by beavers.

I, for one, will stick to being a gerbil.

:oops:
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Thu May 05, 2016 8:36 am

chuckula wrote:
It's true that on a percentage basis those parts are basically low-end GPUs with a CPU tacked onto the side.


Was it nVidia that said some years back that CPU would get integrated into the GPU rather than the other way around? :o
 
the
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Thu May 05, 2016 10:38 am

BurntMyBacon wrote:
chuckula wrote:
It's true that on a percentage basis those parts are basically low-end GPUs with a CPU tacked onto the side.


Was it nVidia that said some years back that CPU would get integrated into the GPU rather than the other way around? :o


That was the plan which then fell apart when nVidia's Denver core didn't turn out to be a performance champion and TSMC 20 nm node wasn't suitable for GPUs. The result was a massive shift in nVidia's road which add Pascal between Maxwell and Volta.
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Thu May 05, 2016 4:07 pm

Hope Asus , giga byte or ASrock,someone makes a i7 version of this chip soldered into a gaming motherboard with the z170 chipset....mATX so in case I want to run SLI I can.
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Re: Skylake GT4: 234mm^2; Plain Skylake has 66mm^2 of CPU

Sun May 08, 2016 5:08 am

66mm^2, hence why Intel should be adding more cores to its HEDP chips at some point. Just think about it, 66mm^2 for a full quadcore.... Since they wouldn't need to add additional uncore an 8-core Skylake would be less than 132mm^2 in size. Beyond that they've maxed the memory controllers and PCIe lanes and can leave all that out further reducing additional core counts. In which case every additional core would be much less than the raw 16.5mm^2 size.

It actually makes the 24-core Broadwell-EP seem small using that 16.5mm^2 per core figure.

the wrote:
I'd argue that their process is targeted toward SRAM. Despite having on-die GPUs and chipset, most of the die is still cache.


I think The is correct here. Remember Skylake's own L2 cache was reduced from an 8-way associativity to a 4-way associativity scheme, mostly done for power savings but probably also for the die size reduction.

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