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TheEmrys
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i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:57 pm

I have been thinking of upgrading my system. I already run a nvme ssd and a GTX1060 6GB. But the cpu is getting long in the tooth. That being said, I don't feel the need for a huge cpu. But would a move to am i5 9600k be worthwhile? Losing the 2 threads might be an issue, but I would trade 4 hyper threading threads for two cores. Is that a wash? I am really looking for some smoother framerates in pubg and Overwatch. And the old 4790 would power my htpc. Is this a pointless "upgrade?"
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:06 pm

Seems close enough to a wash to avoid spending the money now and wait for something that feels like a substantial upgrade later. You've got the important parts covered for a quick system - storage, GPU, and high-clock speed Intel processor. You got at least 16GB of RAM?
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:48 pm

I did a similar upgrade to what you are debating and I noticed a reasonable jump between the generations. It won't be night and day considering what you already have, but I'd think of it like this: take the fps you get now and scale it based on the clock differences between the cpus to get your "new" fps. I got about 10% more clockspeed and expected 10% more fps. I got a little more than that, but as a simple estimate goes, I'd say that if you don't think that money for that increase and a better htpc is worth it, then wait.

Also, high fps games like the ones you described usually aren't multi-thread to the max so "losing" two threads won't really matter in that use case.
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:57 am

4790k is DDR3 right? Ice Lake and AM5 should be coming within the next two years, I'd hold on and wait. The 4790k isn't slow yet by any means, and I'd rather not buy DDR4 this late into its life cycle unless it's for a top-end rig that I can keep for a long time (like 9700k or better).
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:17 am

As others have said, that sounds like more of a sidegrade than an upgrade, and it'll probably run you at least $500.

Yes, 6C/6T Coffee Lake is marginally better than 4C/8T Haswell, but your $500+ may net you less than 4% improvement, even in the most CPU-demanding scenario of ultra settings at low resolution with an overkill graphics card. Take at look at this link for Pubg testing with different CPUs. The 7700K is barely slower than the 8700K, despite being an older generation architecture quad-core part. The 8700K is at the top of the charts for one reason only; it has the highest boost clock of anything in that table.

Image
(source: Techspot)

Your old DDR3 could be a bottleneck if it's using budget 1333MHz or lower, Haswell's sweet spot for RAM is probably lower latench (CL10) 1866MHz or at least a budget 2133MHz kit, but at this point I'd just overclock your 4790K until Zen2 and Ice Lake are out and see which one makes the most sense for gaming.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:15 am

The only true weakness of the 4790K is gaming while doing CPU-encoded game streaming, and the 9600K isn't exactly stellar in that department either.

Frankly nobody should bother with any new Intel CPU slower than the 8700K these days.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:23 pm

strangerguy wrote:
The only true weakness of the 4790K is gaming while doing CPU-encoded game streaming, and the 9600K isn't exactly stellar in that department either.

Frankly nobody should bother with any new Intel CPU slower than the 8700K these days.

1. Not everyone streams games while playing them.
2. Yeah, nobody in the whole world needs anything less than an 8700K. Makes sense!
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:48 pm

strangerguy wrote:
Nobody should bother with any new Intel CPU slower than the Core i7-8700K these days.
DancinJack wrote:
[sarcasm] Yeah, nobody in the whole world needs anything less than an 8700K. Makes sense! [/sarcasm]
Folks who need a gaming CPU slower than the Intel Core i7-8700K should probably save some money and get an AMD Ryzen CPU instead of a lesser Intel CPU.
https://www.microcenter.com/site/produc ... ndles.aspx
$195 for an AMD Ryzen 5 2600 CPU + Wraith stealth cooler + overclockable B450 motherboard.
$344 for an AMD Ryzen 7 2700X CPU + Wraith spire cooler + overclockable B450 motherboard.
https://www.microcenter.com/site/brands ... ndles.aspx
$500 for an Intel Core i7-8700K CPU with no cooler and a cheap Z390 motherboard.
+ $33 for a Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo cooler.
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:47 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Folks who need a gaming CPU slower than the Intel Core i7-8700K should probably save some money and get an AMD Ryzen CPU instead of a lesser Intel CPU.


This. The 2600 and 2700 (and their X variants) may not be the world's fastest gaming CPUs, but they're certainly not slouches either. They make more overall sense than the 9600K unless you intend to significantly OC the 9600K to go for high frame rates.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:57 pm

I did exactly this upgrade a couple of weeks ago. The upgrade should be more about the other components more so than the CPU. By upgrading I got NVME drives, DDR4, a RTX 2080 (not that I couldn't get this with a 4790k), and the ability to upgrade to a 9900k (or more powerful 1151 cpu should they arrive). I also went mini-ITX because ATX is really pointless these days (SLI being dead). The smaller footprint on my desk is really nice...

A lot of people commenting on AMD. I personally would rather have the higher clocks than the cores because I'm gaming and I'm not at all sold on AMD. They've been the underdog for 20 years and are routinely not competitive. Having zero trust there (like I do) is understandable. The price between a 2700x and a 9600k ain't all that different either ($60 I think).

Currently running 4.9ghz @ 1.34v on my 9600k.

System Specs:
i5-9600k
Asus Z390i
G.Skill Trident RGB 2x8 3200@14
Samsung 970 Evo Plus 500GB
EVGA CLC 240 w/ Noctua iPPC 3000 fans
EVGA RTX 2080 Blower
WD Black 4TB
Cougar Vortex RGB Fans
NZXT H200i
Seasonic Prime Ultra 750
9600K @ 4.9 + 16GB Trident RGB 3200 CL14 + Asus Z390-I + 970 Evo 500GB + EVGA RTX 2080 Turbo + EVGA CLC 240 + NZXT H200i + Noctua iPPC Fans + 1440p @ 75Hz
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:55 pm

Here's some BFV data. Based on that, I purchased an i5-9600K to run at least 100 FPS min.

https://www.techspot.com/review/1754-ba ... yer-bench/
 
TheEmrys
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:21 pm

A couple of things:

I am using 1866mhz DDR3 CL10.
PUBG has a weird thing going on because it is on the Unreal 4 engine: FPS dictates both the rate of fire as well as the recoil of weapons. So, I went to a Gsync monitor, lowered my settings, and am now sitting between 120 and 150 fps. It makes a world of difference. If I could get into the 170 fps realm, it is really the sweet spot. But this affects every game on the Unreal 4 engine.
I am also considering selling this cpu as it makes little sense in an HTPC, even one with Plex that needs transcoding from time to time, because my htpc has my old 950ti in it. At this point, I could get good value for the RAM. CPU, and mobo.
2 years wait for DDR5 seems like I would be killing any value I have now. I don't mind being a bit behind. But I am right now 5 generations behind.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:38 pm

Ryzen 3rd generation is due in five months. Ice Lake desktop may be over a year away.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:25 pm

As much as I want Ryzen to be a good option, it just isn't for the framerates I want to achieve. 4790k -> Ryzen over 4790k -> 9600k makes even less sense to me as my goal is one core with very, very high clock speeds. The last 20 fps I need are definitely going to be the hardest, even at 1920x1080. But if I can get to 150-170fps (definitely want to be on the 170 side due to map fps variance), then AMD is just not a viable option.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:04 pm

TheEmrys wrote:
But I am right now 5 generations behind.


Not at all, but if you want to buy something, that's as good of a reason as any. "9th generation" Intel CPUs are as nonexistent as "11th Generation" Intel GPUs.
Be careful on inserting this (or any G34 chip) into the socket. Once you pull that restraining lever, it is either a good install or a piece of silicon jewelry.
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:11 pm

MOSFET wrote:
Not at all, but if you want to buy something, that's as good of a reason as any. "9th generation" Intel CPUs are as nonexistent as "11th Generation" Intel GPUs.


Newegg.com has i5-9600ks in stock.

They limit you to 10 per order.

Three per i9-9900ks.

Two per i7-9700ks.

In what way are these "non-existent"

???
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:11 am

Haswell to Coffee Lake Refresh is 5 generations in Intel marketing terms, but 2 or 3 generations is a lot more realistic (Haswell -> Broadwell -> *Lake -> core count and process improvements).
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:15 am

Broadwell wasn't a tock either.

Haswell is still only one architectural generation behind *Lake, and the IPC gains from Haswell to Skylake weren't huge. The first *Lake part (i7-6700K) still clocks to around 4.8GHz before 1.4V and will outperform any stock i7 or i9 in the majority of gaming tests still.

Most of the performance benefits of Coffee Lake are wasted for gaming unless you pay top dollar for the i7 or i9, because the i5's only get 9MB of cache, which is of no significant increase from the 8MB of cache the old 2016 Skylake/Haswell quad cores came with.

Arguably the only real benefit in changing from Haswell to anything newer is to get extra memory bandwith from DDR4, and the gains when you're upgrading from reasonably fast DDR3 aren't huge. IPC gains of 20% were cited on Skylake's launch, but that was largely across application-targeted optimisations in branch prediction and AVX fixed-function improvements. Gaming IPC was low-single-digit percentage improvement.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:33 am

If the point is that the "generations" are useless distinctions, well, sure. I totally agree with that.

I was just confused by the phrasing, because as meaningless as it might be in regards to "when should I upgrade?" or "meaningful performance/architecture graduation", the "9th generation" is "real thing" and they are available.
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:24 am

While I do agree that for the tech-savvy Haswell is only one, arguably two generations behind Skylake, for the layman it is indeed old hat. They can look up Amazon or any retail site and see Intel is now selling 9-series stuff. That CPU on Craigslist that starts with 4? Must be ancient!
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:26 pm

Glorious wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
Not at all, but if you want to buy something, that's as good of a reason as any. "9th generation" Intel CPUs are as nonexistent as "11th Generation" Intel GPUs.


Newegg.com has i5-9600ks in stock.

In what way are these "non-existent"

???


Not that you can't order your supposed "9th generation" Intel CPU, just that there is, as of yet, no such thing as a true 9th Gen Intel CPU. Refreshing since SandyBridge just doesn't count.
Be careful on inserting this (or any G34 chip) into the socket. Once you pull that restraining lever, it is either a good install or a piece of silicon jewelry.
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:48 pm

MOSFET wrote:
Not that you can't order your supposed "9th generation" Intel CPU, just that there is, as of yet, no such thing as a true 9th Gen Intel CPU. Refreshing since SandyBridge just doesn't count.

Ah, there's the FUD we were looking for. :P
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:53 pm

jihadjoe wrote:
4790k is DDR3 right? Ice Lake and AM5 should be coming within the next two years, I'd hold on and wait. The 4790k isn't slow yet by any means, and I'd rather not buy DDR4 this late into its life cycle unless it's for a top-end rig that I can keep for a long time (like 9700k or better).


I’ve been using the i7 4790k CPUs since they came out.
My apps are real-time audio that work alongside 18 x Analog Devices DSP Chips.
I’ve got 2 x brand new 1U ASRock Rack Workstaion boards, making the original 2 machines spares.

I’m not going to jump in until I see new architecture. AMD has me interested but single core performance still hasn’t touched Intel.
Hopefully AMD made Intel design something that isn’t so incremental.
I built my sons machines over the last 5 years, i7 7700k and an i7 8086k dellidded for temperatures sake, not for overclocking.

Only when I benched the 8086k did I see a decent jump in performance.
But it’s still not enough ooomph for me to spend money where it isn’t needed.
i7 4790k was a nice jump from i7 920 Bloomfield’s.
When I can see single core performance increase more than 5-10% I’ll jump in.

Exciting times though for all of us.
Can’t wait to see the 3600X from AMD.
But if they continue flaunting Cinebench Multithreaded benchmarks that shows me Intel’s single core still rules.

Here’s one of the 4Us I replaced with new 4790 1Us.

Image
A Bird can’t tell you very much about Aerodynamics.
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:54 pm

Waco wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
Not that you can't order your supposed "9th generation" Intel CPU, just that there is, as of yet, no such thing as a true 9th Gen Intel CPU. Refreshing since SandyBridge just doesn't count.
Ah, there's the FUD we were looking for. :P

I'm just talkin' 'bout my g-g-g-generation.
Imagine a world with no hypothetical questions.
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Mon May 13, 2019 8:40 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Waco wrote:
MOSFET wrote:
Not that you can't order your supposed "9th generation" Intel CPU, just that there is, as of yet, no such thing as a true 9th Gen Intel CPU. Refreshing since SandyBridge just doesn't count.
Ah, there's the FUD we were looking for. :P

I'm just talkin' 'bout my g-g-g-generation.


Funny you should mention them, Ned. I just saw them in concert. Despite being 75 and 73, Daltrey and Townsehnd can still absolutely rock like the badasses they are.

Slight necropost I admit, but a 4790K is a bad choice for an HTPC unless you're undervolting it as low as you can get 100% stable. It's not a cool CPU, coming from someone who had one in his system until this weekend. I'd be selling it, the board and its RAM and using something like a Core i3-8100. Runs way cooler, its integrated video does full hardware HEVC H.265 decoding in hardware.

The minimum I'd get for an upgrade would be a Core i7-8700k (6 cores, 12 threads), with the i7-9700K and i9-9900K both being options. Interestingly enough, when it comes to gaming, the 4790K still performs on par with today's top-end Ryzen 2 CPUs (admittedly, in large multithreaded workloads like Blender, it gets spanked as would any quad-core CPU when faced with an 8-core one). This is because performance-per-clock is (at least until Ryzen 3) still higher with Intel CPUs, so in gaming, you have to go with an Intel CPU that is higher-clocked than the 4790K. My 4790K ran between 4.2-4.4GHz quite stably, so while architechtural improvements do improve performance per clock, you need the clock speed too.

Anything other than those three CPUs , Skylake X multi-core, or Ryzen 3 when released, and you're probably going to be disappointed.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Sun May 19, 2019 12:16 am

Kind of ironic timing given that it's a question of 4C/8T vs. 6C/6T when the powers that be are suggesting that security conscious users should get on with it and disable hyper threading. :)

In any case, a wealth of performance data strongly indicates that while six cores is more future proof than four, any good 4+ core Intel CPU made after 2012 is good enough for anything but high-performance specialty workloads and possibly those chasing after 144 Hz perfection. The guy talking about add-on features has a point, but I don't consider said features significant enough to warrant spending hundreds of dollars on marginally better main-component performance. DDR4 is a wash outside certain special circumstances, USB 3.1 specs are too messy to draw any conclusions, and given Intel's history of playing market-segmentation games with the chipsets there's no guarantee that the sweet spot version of Optane/3DXPoint--the actually meaningful successor to SATA SSDs--will even be compatible with the Coffee Lake stuff.
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue May 21, 2019 9:07 am

4790k Is so hot!! Even with coolers, comparingly to other processor's
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Tue May 21, 2019 9:59 am

I have a slightly overclocked 4790k, and while I don't think I'd get much bang/$ out of upgrading the CPU, I am starting to notice the age of the rest of the platform, especially the lack of a full 4-lane PCIe 3.0 M.2 slot.
Desktop: i7-4790K @4.8 GHz | 32 GB | EVGA Gefore 1060 | Windows 10 x64
Laptop: MacBook Pro 2017 2.9GHz | 16 GB | Radeon Pro 560
 
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed May 22, 2019 8:54 pm

Nightermech wrote:
4790k Is so hot!! Even with coolers, comparingly to other processor's


It honestly isn't bad; it's just hotter than newer die processes -but it's okay to run it that way. A solid air cooler will do it. A budget leader like the Hyper 212 EVO (rated for 180 watts) will do so reasonably with room to spare; higher-end stuff from Noctua or Thermalright will keep it very cool if you can keep your case close to ambient. Broadwell, Skylake, Kaby, and Coffee are just more efficient due to die process and a few newer tricks.

It doesn't come close to dissipating the wattage of an i9 if you put both under load and compare them (I went from the 4790K to the 9900K). At 4.7GHz for all eight cores with a 100% load, the 9900K takes 160-166watts in my system, and it can go much higher if I clocked it up further.. I wouldn't use the 212 EVO on a 9900K where I would without concern on a 4790K.
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Re: i7 4790k to i5 9600k?

Wed May 22, 2019 9:00 pm

The 4790k only is a bad choice for a server if you aren't transcoding video through plex, as I am. The 950GTX does it now, but it draws a ton more power. And with it being headless, the on-board h.265 decoding is irrelevant. It is transcoding power I need, but with lower power draw. For all the time, the lovely 35w i3-2120T is excellent. But with the 950 GTX running, it draws a fair more amount of power.
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