Microsoft working on second-gen Xbox 360?

The folks at Engadget have gotten their hands on a picture of a purported second-generation Xbox 360 console. Code-named Zephyr, the console will supposedly feature HDMI output—just like Sony’s PlayStation 3 consoles—as well as a cooler-running 65nm processor and a 120GB hard drive. While unconfirmed, this rumor fits together with an announcement made by Chartered Semiconductor over eight months ago. Chartered said it had entered an agreement with Microsoft to produce Xbox 360 processors based on a 65nm silicon-on-insulator process, and that production of the chips would start in the first quarter of 2007. According to Engadget’s source, users will be able to get their hands on Zephyr consoles “soon.” Thanks to TR reader Evan for the tip.

Comments closed
    • Fastfreak39
    • 13 years ago

    i dont even know what to say to a lot of these comments lol… i respect the ps3 a lot but if u actually read into their almighty cell processor u would see that it has a great amount of power only at specific things… the 360 has 3 general cores that can do whatever which makes it more versatile. as for the graphics… well the 360’s are more powerful. to me it seems that the 360 has more potential than the ps3. i fully agree with microsoft upgrading their 360, companies do that to stay competitive. the upgrades are only gonna make it better

    • Gilligan
    • 13 years ago

    halo 3 will kill the ps3

      • muyuubyou
      • 13 years ago

      Halo 2 sucks. Halo 1 is just ok if you don’t have a PC to play real FPS.

        • Resomegnis
        • 13 years ago

        I freaking hate FPS shooter games. No skill other then running around a corner and praying that you see someone first.

        Long live the strategy RPG!

          • muyuubyou
          • 13 years ago

          Which is why the XBOX saga continues to fail miserably in Japan. Nobody here cares american sports or FPS in the slightest, so what else is there for the 360? a few racers, Rumble Roses? not enough.

            • PLASTIC SURGEON
            • 13 years ago

            Well in Japan they love cartoony linear RPG’s with 6-7 hours of FMV thrown in. To each their own i say.

    • moose17145
    • 13 years ago

    Personally i want a PS3. I still think it’s a great console (OH BOY! Here comes the attacks!). I like the six axis controller idea, and i KNOW the console is just as powerful as tha 360 (may just take time to harness that power is all, whether it gets harnessed tho… well i can’t say). Also, it’s hasn’t been out as long, so of course there are more and better games for 360, it’s had more time to develope an established game base (which was a part of M$’s plans in getting the console out before PS3). Also since the console came out earlier, developers have had time to figure out the consoles little quirks, and what have you’s, as a result the games may look better simply because they have had more time to refine methodes of development for the graphics on that particlar system. In case no one else has noticed, games that look great on them now will not look great on them in 3 years. The games for BOTH 3 years from now will look far superior. Just the way things go.

    As for the 360… great console, would love to have one too. Just as good as the PS3 (not better or worse). Think the games that are coming out are awesome and hope to see what they do this time around. I liked the last XBox (though i sold it because i didn’t use it as often as my ps2 which i use often as a dvd player), i thought it was a great console and liked it while i had it very much. Also, for all you PS3 haters out there, i would remind you, the 360 was a serious POS from day one. It was having overheating issues, eating up and ruining game discs, i mean they had some SERIOUS problems. Fortunately for M$ the majority of that seems to be behind them and as is apparent and now are sitting with a decent console which they are working on releasing with an updated cpu on a smaller fab process (should help with the heat issues somewhat i would hope), and have added a HDMI (from what appears in the photos under the assumption they are to be believed). Long story short i like both and would love to have both. Really at this point i have no preference towards either one.

    Nintendo wii… well it’s a horrible comparison for 360 or ps3. The wii is in no way a next gen console, they used basically recycled game cube parts imho, and just redid the control scheme on it. The console is not powerful at all and as a result is just simply not in the same arena as either of the other two. The other two are meant to be high end, high perfromance, high fps, and are targeting a much different age bracket too. Nintendo has a very good “family friendly” oriented game content and as a result their consoles are typically prefereable for younger kids and such. Don’t get me wrong, good family fun is great sometimes when your with your buddy’s and just wanna play something dumb and kinda fun though! Plus lets not forget the cost, it is the cheapest, and as a result it will see earlier adoption as the 250 dollar hit for a wii isn’t as great as a 400 ~600 dolalr hit for a 360 or PS3 (i only include the premium 360 version because in all reality… you want the hard drive. do you need it? No, but like i said, for the VAST majority it’s a definite want). Remember the lack of real “next gen” equipment inside of it? Well that leads to high number too. Faster production of more consoles that are more reliable as there is fewer “untested” tech inside of it. As a result the wii should be outselling the PS3 and the 360 right there. The thing is cheap, and easy and dang fast to produce, and thus as a result they have not had the supply issues that plaqued the PS3 and 360 (for 360 supply issues look back in old forums… it really was pretty bad, there were VERY few of them at release).

    Like i said, if i had to pick two consoles, i would choose both 360 and ps3 (currently not a fan of the Wii, but we will see where it goes). I think both have their merits and i would like to see all three consoles live strong and see where each of them go. PS3 has some SERIOUS CPU power over the 360 with it’s MANY cores and should help in multithreading games for the future i would hope. 360 has a better video card in it (from what i am understanding) as it has a unified design that ATI implemented (Again as goes my understanding) so hopefully we should see some refinements in that area as well.. plus the tripple core CPU is no slouch itself, that too should help multithreading again. The wii will do nothing to help those area, but in the aspect of unique controller design it will be fascinating to see where they go and what exclusive titles that may possibly come out for it. Also as for the PS3, im hoping to see some physics being run on it, since it does have enough cpu overhead to do so. Hopefully that will help game play some if we can get more realistic physics that affect the game. Also the PS3 really can be used as more than just a game console, and that is a big plus to me.

    Long story short, each console has it’s place and it’s own stregnths and weakness’s, and in time we will see what each one can do. Right now to call ANY shots on the PS3 is just dumb. It just simply has not been out long enough, it may kick @$$, it may flop (hope not though). 360 on the other hand, well you can probably make a safe bet it’s not going too many places at this point, so it will probably be around for a while longer yet. Wii will NOT compete with 360 or PS3, but will have it’s place and (if early numbers are any indication) should sell well and HOPEFULLY have some interesting and unique titles developed for it. The reason i say the wii cannot compete with either, is because it just can’t. Everyone was talking about game developers not wanting to make exclusive titles… well you cannot simply port a game from PS3/360 to a wii… the poor thing just cannot handle that type of load. And it WILL only get worse as time goes on, as a result i fear that Nintendo will need exclusive titles for it if it is to succeed. Yea they ported CoD3, but only because they were able to butcher the graphics on it. I suspect on future titles that will not be possible, or will at least not be worth doing. Like i said though, the console will probably not flop, but will definitely not be playing with the same type of games as PS3/360 will be dabbling around in. Basically what i am getting at is that all three consoles rock and each has their place. As for who prefers what is just a matter of preference. Personal example, i hate Wii (hopefully though i tried to be somewhat unbiased in this post, i really did try!), and as a result… im not buying one. I will express my dislike for it and back it up as to why i think that, if someone else wants it though, good for them, i really do hope they enjoy it. If they have fun with it, and was a worthwile investment for them, then that’s great!

    Yea idk… i tried making a post here saying what i thought on the matter after reading all the trolling comments and such, but didn’t want to seem like a troll myself. Sorry as i know it is pretty dang long! Basically i like both consoles and wouldn’t mind having both as i really like 360 and i really like PS3… guess i don’t see why is HAS to be one or the other… why not both? Plenty of market to play around in imo.

      • ssway
      • 13 years ago

      What a waste of a keyboard.

      • droopy1592
      • 13 years ago

      You know it is as powerful? LOL, it’s basically an early R600 vs a G70, which is a generation behind. People fail to remember that Sony thought Cell could do graphics but when they found out it was relatively slow, they put in the RSX (7800GTX) as a last minute addition. Every developer doing both with no obvious bias to sony says that the 360 is a step ahead of the PS3. It’s the GPU that does most of the work, not the CPU.

      Wii not next gen? Maybe in terms of graphics, but don’t knock it until you try it because many people are enjoying what it can do. Hell, I thought it was all a gimmick until I couldn’t put the controllers down, and that was just Wii sports, which is no where near the best game. I played Wii boxing with my brother for five straight hours, with a break in between because I was dehydrated.

      360$+Wii$=PS3$

      Not many Sony exclusives…

      I think you’d be better of reconsidering.

        • moose17145
        • 13 years ago

        It is still a powerful console, and either way is still faster than my computer by a long shot. Like i said, i personally have no preference towards either PS3 or 360. So saying the 360 is a step ahead of PS3, is saying to me that you get omfaggajkafjkb fast, and omfgljihslh faster. Like i said, i cannot afford either or right now, so i am forced to wait and see what happens. PS3 may flop and i will not get one, but like i said, i am hoping that doesn’t happen to any of the three.

        Nintendo wii… went to a lan party with one there. Tried it… didn’t like it. Sorry. Still a neat console idea though and like i mentioned, it will be fascinating what they do with it. Unfortunately though wii will most likely end up relying on almost all exclusive titles (not always a bad thing, but it can make things harder for a console sometimes). It just doesn’t have the hardware to accept a 360 or PS3 port. That was the main reason i don’t classify the wii even in the same group as the PS3/360 (along wiht price, and target audience, and the fact all it does is simply play games and do nothing else thus making it unique even in that aspect). Again, sorry if that pisses some people off, but those are just my thoughts on the matter.

        Also like i said, im not trying to troll or anything like that, just trying to share my thoughts in the matter in a civilized manor.

        • PLASTIC SURGEON
        • 13 years ago

        From what i have read. The R500 inside the Xbox360 is the R600 just with 16 disabled pipelines. Disabled for cost reasons. Now my question is this. Will MS offer a firmware update in the future to “unlock” those 16 pipelines when the CPU costs lower? Now that would be one hell of a surprise for everyone. Especially Sony. lol

          • echo_seven
          • 13 years ago

          But…wait, if ATI’s been sitting on a working R600 design since last year, what have they been working on (and delaying) since then???

            • Baddle Tech
            • 13 years ago

            Perhaps they were sitting on their asses going ‘heeheehee nvidia sucks…’ then nvidia came out with the 8800 and they just went ‘fuck’ because their design isn’t nearly as fast and so now they are speeding it up!!!! Yay

      • wierdo
      • 13 years ago

      Just buy a Wii for fun, and PC for graphics. The XBox360 is a good middle ground, PS3’s the more expensive and also less refined/consistent alternative to it right now, and I have doubts it’ll get better with MS’s experience in this area and the XBox360’s head start.

      The only saving grace is a couple franchise games that are still left for the PS3 and has a loyal enough fanbase that may be willing to pay for the console to buy one or two games. If you must, then wait until the PS3 sells for $300 first then you can enjoy those franchise games when they’re selling for $20 in the discount bin.

      I can hardly tell the two consoles apart when it comes to games… and frankly I’m not seeing any new concepts out there, I guess games are so expensive these days that companies don’t even wanna risk innovating too far from a proven baseline.

    • Hance
    • 13 years ago

    I have been thinking of getting an xbox just to have more options of games that i can play. now i will wait until the second rev comes out no need of buying now if a newer model is just around the corner.

    • sresener
    • 13 years ago

    I really don’t know why people keep bashing products, you realize that the consumer wins when there is competition. I have personally seen both consoles and think there both very comparable. But as a pc builder the one thing that surprises me is why would sony put a gpu in there console that is very similer to a 7800gtx. Its common knowledge that untill the 8800 series came out nvidia’s gpu’s were a little behind in image quality and could not offer any aa with hdr lighting, also there video quality was behind, also kinda funny to combine that with a blu-ray player. where microsofts xbox 360 actually put a gpu that was ahead of its time with its unified shaders and on gpu memory to give aa for free. Everyone here knows you can take the fastest computer and if you throw a slow gpu in it well the system is a good as its weekest link.

    • d2brothe
    • 13 years ago

    *Smilies*…I don’t buy consoles, this is just one of the reasons. *Hugs PC*

      • SGT Lindy
      • 13 years ago

      ???? Because they rev a console every once and a while?

      • Pettytheft
      • 13 years ago

      ROFL. Yeah, and I’m sure my video card/cpu I purchased wasn’t annihilated a few months after it’s release.

    • PerfectCr
    • 13 years ago
    • opinionated
    • 13 years ago

    Games- Has anyone seen a PS3 actually play a native 1080p game? Do we know that it actually will? Do we know when one will come out?

    DRM and movie format- Will HD-DVD or Blu-Ray or some hybrid win the format war? Or movie downloading? Have the content providers settled on a standardized DRM strategy for any format and will they stick with it?

    Televisions- The vast majority of tv watchers still watch 4:3 tv sets at 480i and 480p for dvd. 1080p sets will gain momentum this year. But that just means the masses will scoop up cheaper 720p or 1080i sets next holiday season. We are probably two holiday seasons away from seeing any significant pick up in 1080p purchases. So two years away from even needing an hdmi output on the 360.

    I think the 360 is just better positioned to move in whatever direction the above events play out. I think if Blu-Ray wins, we’ll see a Blu-Ray add-on drive. Same for hybrid drives. But I don’t think we’ll see any change in internal drive until formats and tv resolutions and drm for the digital pathway from the console to the back of the tv are all completely finalized.

    • PerfectCr
    • 13 years ago

    When kellokitty attacks something you own, you know you’ve purchased the right product.

      • Vrock
      • 13 years ago

      LOL. Sigged!

        • PerfectCr
        • 13 years ago

        Thanks 🙂

      • SpotTheCat
      • 13 years ago

      I don’t support trolling in any form, but this is too funny to pass up 😀

    • Fearless Leader
    • 13 years ago

    I guess Nintendo could learn a thing or two. Remember they quietly removed the digital video output from the gamecube. In that case, poor late adopters.

    Always quietly add, never subtract.

    • leor
    • 13 years ago

    on paper the 360 is vastly inferior to the ps3, and msft can’t stand looking inferior in anyway. even the name “360” was meant not to look lesser than the playstation (xbox2 vs ps3).

    i like the additions, the 20 gig hard drive is almost useless for media (mine came with only 11gb free), and the vast majority of tv sets can’t display 1080p over component input.

    i would have liked to see a 600 dollar uber version with hd-dvd to compete with the high end ps3.

      • IntelMole
      • 13 years ago

      y[

      • SGT Lindy
      • 13 years ago

      (mine came with only 11gb free)

      Nooooooob.

      Delete the free videos that came with….unless you like a 20min HD video on the making the Titanic movie.

        • leor
        • 13 years ago

        yeah either i’m a noob, or i’m using my 1.5tb RAID to hold my videos, which do u think it is?

          • SGT Lindy
          • 13 years ago

          “yeah either i’m a noob, or i’m using my 1.5tb RAID to hold my videos, which do u think it is?”

          I have 60 bottles of beer in my fridge, a quart of perpermint ice cream, and a jar of mustard??????

          WTF does your 1.5tb RAID have to do with the fact that you dont know why your 20gig HD on your 360 came with only 11gig????

          1.5tb RAID….hmmmm stripe two 750gig Segate SATA drives on a $90 motherboard….pure rocket science.

            • leor
            • 13 years ago

            yeah cept it’s a 7x 300gb Seagate cheetah SCSI RAID with a hot spare.

            and just because us here on tech report know about all that, joe sixpack sees 11gb free and it might not occur to them to look for preloaded movies.

            so maybe stop ASSuming stuff, and you won’t look like such a fool on a public forum.

            • SGT Lindy
            • 13 years ago

            And how is does 3 disk SCSI RAID with a spare compare relate to the 11gb of free disk space on your console??

            • willyolio
            • 13 years ago

            you see, the reason he has a 1.5TB array is because he believes hard drives are write-once devices, much like CD-Rs. deleting? what’s that?

            • ludi
            • 13 years ago

            It was your choice to lead the replies with a sneer. His “I know how to manage disks, stupid” response was pretty much to be expected.

            Besides, doesn’t your revelation of how much space a few free videos takes up, pretty much prove his point that 20GB is probably going to be inadequate for storing media content?

            • leor
            • 13 years ago

            it’s where i keep all my stuff, i believe i made my point about the 11 free GB, don’t try to back out cause u got caught acting like an ass, this certainly can’t be the first time.

            • jdevers
            • 13 years ago

            You wasted Cheetah SCSI drives on videos? If you aren’t talking about very high bitrate HD DV you are seriously wasting money…

      • lethal
      • 13 years ago

      There are enough comparisons in the net that show that the inferiority of the xbox 360 is pretty much crap. In the graphic department it smokes the ps3 and anything pre G80 / R600 for that matter. The 3 core CPU of the xbox is better suited for game code than cell, and microsoft’s tools are bounds and leaps ahead of sony’s dev kits.

      There’s no hardware scaling with the ps3 either so it could be possible that the xbox 360 ends up with MORE 1080p capable games than the ps3 if sony doesnt do anything about it.

      The lack of mandatory Hard Drive is the only thing I can think of being inferior, but ms was pretty close to offering the perfect package this time around.

        • spuppy
        • 13 years ago

        This man speaks truth. I wish more people were aware of facts and don’t just buy into marketing crap.

        • SGT Lindy
        • 13 years ago

        It is all total crap….and the fact that you can leave your house right now and go buy a PS3 less than 60 days after is came out speaks mountains of the reality of how well the PS3 is NOT selling. It cost to much, there are hardly any AAA games, and the online service sucks compared to live.

        §[<http://www.gamespot.com/features/6162742/index.html?tag=features;title;0<]§

          • rgreen83
          • 13 years ago

          Was in walmart last weekend, saw 2 60gb and 1 20gb ps3s, went back last night, still there, laughed to myself and went home to my 360 and wii and gave them a big hug!

    • hellokitty
    • 13 years ago

    Just miscrosoft’s way of admitting they have an inferior product and desperate attempt to give it some kind of an upgrade.

    But, the battle is lost. As soon as exclusive PS3 titles hit , it’s rest in pieces xbox.

      • StashTheVampede
      • 13 years ago

      Trolling on both consoles and CPUs? Will the trolling ever end?

      Sony’s list of PS3 exclusives is going to be shorter this time — the install base isn’t going to grow as quickly as it did with the PS2. Sony has to overcome a YEAR head start on titles, a better online network AND a lower price point to make some serious dent in the customer adoption of the PS3.

      The xbox shrinkage was bound to happen ASAP — the sooner you can ship a cheaper product to manufacture, the sooner you’ll make your money back.

      P.S. IBM has newer Cell chips, Sony’s inferior product should get a refresh soon, right?

        • hellokitty
        • 13 years ago

        not trolling anywhere.

        on that pc fiasco ( fiasco for TR ) they asked me to post links as proof, which I did, they immediately deleted my post and locked the thread.

        I guess somebody doesn’t like to be proven wrong.

          • IntelMole
          • 13 years ago

          OK fine. Show me the proof that the PS3 is a far superior console.

          It has its share of exclusives.
          The Xbox360 has its share of exclusives.

          Most titles are cross platform though, and as such are largely identical.

          At the end of the day, you can either call a winner on market share or by profit.

          The PS3 will probably have more market share by virtue of the sheer inertia of the Playstation brand.

          The Xbox360 will probably be more profitable. It’s about (+/- a few percent here and there) as powerful as the PS3 and so could be around for just as long. Except it’s already been out for a year and the thing is cheaper to make in the first place. MS seem to be raking it in at the moment with their online service and *gasp* a decent setup of everything, and for once I’m glad they are.

          So c’mon kitty, for once stop trolling and actually show us some logical thought behind your rubbish.

            • muyuubyou
            • 13 years ago

            It’s likely that the PS3 will last more, and while the 360 has more share now and an earlier entrance, the reality is most people waited for the PS3 to signal “next-gen”. Hell, even PS2 sold well this xmas.

            I wish both Sony and MS disappeared forever, but I think this time around there will be market for the 3 big contenders. The console market has been growing steadily for years. Problem is both Sony and MS played high stakes this time around and that can be financial suicide.

            • IntelMole
            • 13 years ago

            y[

      • Krogoth
      • 13 years ago

      Nope, it is a logic progression. Sony did the same thing with PS2 classic to PS2 slim and PS1 classic to mini PS1. It is called reducing the cost of production by advancements in fabraction technology.

      PS3 needs FF XIII, GT5, Metal Solid Gear 3 and a price cut ASAP in order to overcome 360 and Wii’s inertia.

        • PLASTIC SURGEON
        • 13 years ago

        Have you seen some of the Xbox360 exclusives? They have some pretty good ones coming out. Bio-Shock. Mass Effect. Lost Planet. Alan Wake. Shadow Run just to name a few. Sony has a good hill to climb this generation

          • hellokitty
          • 13 years ago

          y[< Bio-Shock. Mass Effect. Lost Planet. Alan Wake. Shadow Run <]y all recycled crap, and all pretty much the same game. They can just crm all these and all those from previous cnsoles into a single wer/action/thriller game, because it is all the exact same crap. You go around picking up crap and shooting at things Final Fantasy alone will kill off xbox ( and I even don't like that game, but that is the way it will be ).

            • StashTheVampede
            • 13 years ago

            Final Fantasy has a HUGE install fan base, yup. Square hasn’t committed to being a Sony exclusive partner AND the father of Final Fantasy has an exclusive Xbox360 game.

            The days of exclusive games are numbered — it’s simply costs too much to dev a game. Locking a game into a platform reduces your profits and many game companies don’t ship more than 1-2 games. It’s in their best interest to ship on as many systems as possible.

            • Lord.Blue
            • 13 years ago

            All recycled crap?

            Bio-Shock. – I’m not even going to go into this one. You obviously have not seen anything for it.

            Mass Effect. – LIterally Hundreds of worlds to explore and visit. Show me a game that has this. Sure it’s by the same guys who did KOTOR2, so there are some similarities in the look of the interface and the party setup, but that’s about it. Not a Star Wars game, so not recycled. All original story.

            Lost Planet. – Frozen planet. Gotta keep warm by getting energy or I die. Never played a game like this on any system. Completely original except that it has a multiplayer shooter aspect to it.

            Alan Wake. – completely original story, original engine, and exclusive to the 360 from the get go. Yep it’s recycled all right.

            Shadow Run – the last time there was a Shadowrun game was on the SNES. Elves, Orges, Orcs, Humans, Dwarves, and more all in a future setting. Nope. Not a thing like it.

      • SGT Lindy
      • 13 years ago

      §[<http://nexgenwars.com/<]§ Sony is on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!....Wiiiiiiiiiii

        • hellokitty
        • 13 years ago

        devide/average that by the number of months each console has been available and PS3 is already outselling xbox by 2 to 1. And the real games haven’t even started coming out.

          • stix
          • 13 years ago

          And compared to the Wii??

            • hellokitty
            • 13 years ago

            not comparing Wii. I said they would do well. This is between xbox and PS3

            And as I also mentioned before, PS3 price will drop by a lot in 6 months, then again by xmas and the consloe ar will be over xmas 2007. PS3 and Wii on top, xbox in the trash.

            • totoro
            • 13 years ago

            The price will have to drop, because otherwise they’d all still be sitting on the shelves of stores everywhere.
            I think the momentum was Sony’s to lose, and they did.
            Sony could have gone the 360 route and had Blu-Ray as an add-on and kept some of the momentum they had.
            Ah well.

            • droopy1592
            • 13 years ago

            Apparently it’s between Microsoft and Nintendo as you can get both a 360 and a wii for the price of a PS3.

            Wait, sales numbers? Since introduction Wiis have outsold PS3s by a multiple of 3 and 360s go off the shelves faster than PS3s. I can go buy a PS3 right now… because after the fan boys, nobody really wants one for that amount of money.

            Exclusives? Ha, Konami is about to say “screw sony exclusives” and so are a bunch of others. 1.5 million consoles to sell games for by Spring…

            If you were making games would you make them for both systems and sell to a market of 12 million (both) or to a market of 1.5 million (Sony)?

            Sony is already losing 200+ on each console… if they are fighting to buy exclusives it will cost them more than the developer can make off of the PS3 market alone… doesn’t look so easy anymore.

            #30, y[

            • hellokitty
            • 13 years ago

            >>Just comparing Madden should show you that the 360 can make life difficult for the PS3<<<

            That’s electronic arts. Notorious for reycling and just porting crap over from one platform to another. Don’t blame PS3 for lazy coders and lazy companies.

            Those that know how to code stand to make a killing, and they will sell PS3s.

            • droopy1592
            • 13 years ago

            If it was just a simple port, wouldn’t it look just as good on the PS3 as it does on the 360 since, according to you, the PS3 is more powerful?

            You’re wrong, as the 360 version looks better and has better FPS.

            • IntelMole
            • 13 years ago

            The “lazy programmer” argument is the very reason why the PS3 isn’t as powerful as Sony want you to believe. It takes a heck of a lot of effort (or good dev tools) to eek out all that performance, and atm neither are there.

            The PS3 has every chance of becoming this generation’s Saturn. The Saturn was (arguably) superior at certain areas of gaming (e.g. most 2D stuff, FPS shooters, and the odd graphics trick or two) and inferior in some others (bad transparency support comes to mind, and as I recall the PS1 could push more pixels or polygons, I can’t remember which). It lost because it was hard to get at all that power when it was stretched across so many chips, because of a string of bad publicity (£400 base console asking price with 4 pretty rubbish launch titles anyone?), and because it had a sub-standard line of third-party exclusives. It never caught up.

            Sounds a bit like the PS3, no? The PS3 has a chance to catch up. It has some must have titles like the Final Fantasy series and Metal Gear and it has blu-ray support so will probably get some good support from people who want an HD movie player.

            But Sony have made it an uphill battle from the start, entirely by themselves.

          • SGT Lindy
          • 13 years ago

          The PS3 after less than 60 days….is sitting shelfs where I live. It took 6 months for that to happen for the 360.

          The PS3 have been sitting there before Christmas. Big signs in the windows at gamestop…..one of the gamestops saying he sent some over to another store…wish he had more Wii’s.

          PS3=Total Bust

          • IntelMole
          • 13 years ago

          If you multiply the number of PS3s by eleventy-one and divide it by a half, you also get a big round number known as a hojillion.

          Your statistic is just as meaningless. OF COURSE Sony is outselling the 360 at the moment – every early adopter wants one. Make that statement six months from now and compare it to how many Xbox360s were sold after the same time period and you might have something. Not a lot, but something.

          • TheTechReporter
          • 13 years ago

          That logic is completely wrong. Consoles always sell _less_ per month as time goes on, not more. New games getting released doesn’t change this, either. If a console doesn’t sell well in the first few months after its release, it usually does very poorly in the long run.

            • accord1999
            • 13 years ago

            /[< #41, That logic is completely wrong. Consoles always sell _less_ per month as time goes on, not more. New games getting released doesn't change this, either. If a console doesn't sell well in the first few months after its release, it usually does very poorly in the long run.<]/ The estimated XBox 360 numbers for Dec. 2006 are way higher than December 2005. The PS2 sold nearly 4 times more units in Dec. 2001 vs Dec. 2000.

      • Bauxite
      • 13 years ago

      People continue to respond to this guy…

      Hes not a real poster, its someone’s troll alt.

        • hellokitty
        • 13 years ago

        §[<http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20070102/tc_nf/49057<]§ Sony still has 60% of the market, so stick your comments you know where. MSoft had a year headstart and could not come even close to catching up. It's game over, if it ever was really a game. I deal with facts, not crap like you.

          • IntelMole
          • 13 years ago

          You’re misrepresenting that statistic too. That market share figure includes the PS1/2 in it, so any contribution to the discussion of PS3 vs. 360 (aside from a possible subsidy from sales) is completely meaningless.

          You may well deal in facts, but you certainly twist them so they look more favourable to your argument.

          • Bauxite
          • 13 years ago

          Hey trollalt, come back when the PS3 is finished flopping straght into the bucket of other dead fish.

          Core 2 Duo, repeat thyself.

          • PLASTIC SURGEON
          • 13 years ago

          You are the true troll of this forum. lol. Maybe you need to read around about the PS3. How many of those exclusives has Sony lost now? How much longer will games like MGS and Devil May Cry will stay on the PS3 the way it’s selling now? Not much longer i afraid. GTA. Gone. Bio-Shock. Gone. Assassians Creed. Gone. Virutal Fighter. Gone. Final Fantasy. Gone. Tekken6. Gone. Case in point? The only true triple A exclusives left on the PS3 are from 3RD party game devs. 3rd party games devs go where the money is. The money is not the PS3 despite your fanboy ramblings. Expect to see plenty more of those “once” Sony exclusives migrate to the Xbox360.
          You should venture over to IGN.COM as they have the skinny on this. Quite the read. But you won’t. You’re in love with Sony

            • TheDVDMan
            • 13 years ago

            They lost GTA? Source? The GTA4 page on Rockstars site still shows a PS3 logo.

            Although, here’s hoping the they do NOT release a PS3 version 🙂

            But they damn well better release a pc version!!

            • PLASTIC SURGEON
            • 13 years ago

            They did not lose it. They just lost it as a semi exclusive. Before GTA was always released on the Playstation format first. PC and Xbox owners had to wait almost a year later for it to come to that platform. No longer. It will be released at the same time as the PC and Xbox360 versions. Considering this was one of the biggest selling titles on the PS2, that comes as a blow to Sony. IGN also mentions that even Namco will be releasing some titles exclusive to the Xbox360 format in 2007, 2008. Stark change from the Xbox days. Not too many Sony exclusives left. Most are now being developed for the Xbox360 also.

            • TheDVDMan
            • 13 years ago

            Ah. Cool…I had heard they were doing the PS3/Xbox360 at the same time…glad to hear the PC one is the same, too. Sweet.

            The graphics damn well better make Far Cry look like an 8-bit NES game, though 🙂

      • PLASTIC SURGEON
      • 13 years ago

      “The console has sold well, and will most likely hit the projected 10 million unit mark by January 2007 (worldwide). Publishers are taking note, and they’re happy about it. Microsoft has challenged Sony on every level and, at least for the moment, has taken the market share lead in the next-gen console race. Exclusives that were once mainstay titles on Sony’s platform are no longer. Grand Theft Auto IV will ship day and date on Xbox 360 and PS3. Assassin’s Creed will ship on both systems, too. SEGA’s Virtua Fighter 5 will now ship to Xbox 360, and even though it’s late, Guitar Hero II will hit the console in spring 2007.

      It’s enough to turn American and European publishers around. For the most part, U.S. and Euro companies have been on board Microsoft’s plan. But to turn Japanese publishers into Microsoft believers? Ha ha! We’re kidding you, right? We’ve been drinking too much Christmas grog! Too much mulled wine. Too much damned Microsoft Kool-Aid. Right?

      Nope.

      We’re as sober as the Pope. Watch and see how other Japanese publishers react. Mark our words here: Other publishers, other big-name Japanese publishers aside from Capcom (how we love thee, Capcom), will begin putting their once Sony exclusives on Xbox 360. And, in some cases, they’ll put them on Xbox 360 first. Don’t believe us? Watch for Namco and Konami in 2007. We’re still not certain whether Metal Gear Solid 4 will hit Xbox 360, but if numbers (of units sold) do the talking, count on its arrival to Xbox 360 sometime after the PS3 version. What about Namco? We’re sworn to secrecy, but the tide is changing here too. Prepare for some real Namco hardcore gaming love in 2007. Overall, Sony has reacted with alarm, anger, confusion, and is now realizing it must deal with this new situation: It isn’t the console leader anymore. Oh yeah, almost forgot. Then there are Mistwalker’s Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey, two highly anticipated Japanese RPGS exclusive to the console. And, oh yes, did somebody say something about Resident Evil 5?” -ign.com-

      *[<http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/749/749547p7.html<]* Xbox360 is going to die HelloKitty? lol

      • SGT Lindy
      • 13 years ago
    • mesyn191
    • 13 years ago

    If they start production in early 2007 doesn’t that mean we won’t be seeing it til’ about 6 months later or so given known estimated lead times?

    • SGT Lindy
    • 13 years ago

    It is all good if it is real. This wont perform any better as in overall speed of the console. It is more of a PR move than anything. The number of Xbox 360 owners today that can use 720p….is less than 20%….I would say less than 5% that could use 1080p.

    . Bigger HD good if you need it and it will be an option just like the current one is today. I still have 11gig free on my 20gig. At volume it will add probably $15 more per 360.

    . HDMI…..like I said PR to say that the 360 has it to like the PS3. All games ship with support for 720p….very few will ship with 720p and 1080p. If HD-DVD wins the next race over BR then this will be important and the end of the life of the 360. It will add probably 50 cents per Xbox 360.

    .65nm CPU….will still be clocked at 3.2ghz…will be cooler and use less power. Will save money since IBM will be able to make more per wafer and pass along the cost saving to MS. If it requires way less power it could save on other componets and if the heat is way less you could save money on a smaller case?….smaller heat sink?……one less fan??? It will save money and fore the minority that are just plain dumb and put their 360 in a tight place…save a few 360’s which saves more money for MS.

    MS makes $75 per Xbox 360 premium. This wont change that..might even make it better with the die shrink.

    PS3 is never going to catch up.

    • Hattig
    • 13 years ago

    Natural progression.

    I don’t think anyone would have considered that MS wouldn’t reduce the cost by utilising a smaller cooler process for the chip (higher yields, cheaper cooling, cheaper PSU), or add features to remain feature-competitive (HDMI), or up the storage when it suits them (HD movie downloads make a hard drive desirable from an extra-revenue point of view).

    • VTOL
    • 13 years ago

    I wonder what they’ll name it, XBOX 720 perhaps?

      • packfan_dave
      • 13 years ago

      It’ll play games exactly the same, so it’s still a 360; the only changes are a die-shrunk CPU (and maybe GPU), a video output connector (HDMI), and a bigger hard drive.

      • Buub
      • 13 years ago

      Nah… just XBOX 360.1

    • crazybus
    • 13 years ago

    I don’t understand why people complain when an improved product is released. It’s one thing if a product is made obsolete quickly after first release, but I don’t see any company doing that. You know what you’re buying when you buy it, and you agree to pay the price asked. Why should you complain when something better is released? It’s not like the function of current xbox 360’s is going to be in any way degraded. The only reason I can think of is that the person is only concerned with having the latest and greatest.

    • Vrock
    • 13 years ago

    But no HD-DVD drive…interesting.

    • IntelMole
    • 13 years ago

    How is this “second gen” as far as the user is concerned…

    Other than a bigger hard drive (which the first gen guys could probably upgrade to), and HDMI, there’s nothing here.

      • Corrado
      • 13 years ago

      Thats what I’m saying… you’ll most likely be able to buy the 120gig HD just like you can buy another 20gig HD right now and plug it in… not a big deal. If I want it I’ll buy it. The HDMI… I suspect that most people do not have HDMI. Its a checklist item so it looks feature complete vs the PS3. You can still do 1080p via VGA with just about EVERY 1080p capable set can accept anyways. Plus, the 1080p is ONLY for movies on HD-DVD. NOT for games, so if you’re buying it for games… you’re dumb.

        • Ardrid
        • 13 years ago

        That’s not exactly true. You can play games at 1080p, just not natively. The 360 has a scaler chip that takes care of all that. See this for more info:

        §[<http://arstechnica.com/articles/headstart.ars/2<]§

          • SGT Lindy
          • 13 years ago

          Scaler chips push the resolution but they dont add more pixels to the picture…they just double up stuff. You wont notice 1080p….real 1080p content unless you TV is over 50inch.

    • indeego
    • 13 years ago

    Poor early adoptersg{<.<}g

      • Vrock
      • 13 years ago

      They know what they’re getting into. At least, they should. Still, be thankful for them…there wouldn’t be improvements without them.

      • spuppy
      • 13 years ago

      I think most people who bought a 360 last year did not have a TV capable of displaying at 1080p. And if they bought a console then upgraded to a 50-60″ TV, maybe it should be assumed that they’d also need up upgrade some other hardware as well.

        • indeego
        • 13 years ago

        Oh I think the same thing for TV as well. Getting 1080p IMO is a certified waste of money. But then I find most of the content released these days crap, and crap blown up to crisp detail is just highly defined crap. The price of this tech will continue to plummet, as wellg{<.<}g

          • d2brothe
          • 13 years ago

          1080p is higher resolution than my eyes.

          • Bauxite
          • 13 years ago

          1080p tvs make nice monitors.

          Theres some that are cheaper too.

    • Evan
    • 13 years ago

    I guess it was some other Evan who sent this article link in… I definitely didn’t.

    • Buub
    • 13 years ago

    That would be sweet if they stealth upgraded all Xbox’s to have HD-DVD drives standard, to counter Sony’s claim that Blu-Ray has taken off just because they could get sheeple to buy their lame console.

    • Pettytheft
    • 13 years ago

    Yay for Costco.

      • ripfire
      • 13 years ago

      Oh right! I didn’t think of that. Yay for Costco indeed. 🙂

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