Toshiba HD DVD player to sell for $98.87

The race to high-definition video format supremacy continues, this time with the HD DVD camp getting ready to hit an all-new price point in preparation for the holiday season. According to DailyTech, Wal-Mart is advertising that it intends to sell Toshiba’s HD-A2 HD DVD set-top player for $98.87. However, the deal has the faint odor of a bait-and-switch ploy:

The holiday-themed ad calls the sale this Friday the "Secret In-Store Specials." The Toshiba HD-A2 is asterisked with the notes saying that the product may not be available in all stores and that it will be while quantities last – suggesting that there could be a limited number set aside as a “doorcrasher” item.

For reference, HD DVD players typically cost something in the neighborhood of $499 when they were first introduced in the U.S. in April last year.

Comments closed
    • rsaeire
    • 12 years ago

    StashTheVampede, I do not wish to debate the difference back and forth but since audio and video quality is what most of the potential buyers are interested in I will say this. With everything you have said about Blu-ray and their high bitrate, when has it actually been shown that the quality of a Blu-ray version of a movie is better than a HD-DVD version?

    I do agree though that combo players are a stop gap to the inevitable and that sooner or later one format will win and that higher cost of purchasing a combo player was wasted. Regardless of Sony or Toshiba’s drive behind their respective formats, the movie studios could be the deciding factor in this war and make the decision for us all.

      • StashTheVampede
      • 12 years ago

      The specs of Bluray and HD-DVD, as they laid out — Bluray will compress the video and audio stream less than HD-DVD. Every piece of digital and audio you see today is compressed (in some form), Bluray will compress the original sources less than HD-DVD.

      This is exactly the same as the DTS vs. Dolby Digital debate.

      I am in the camp where I don’t believe 99.999999999% of the people will EVER see a difference between the two (on high quality masters). Take hundreds of people, put them both in front of a calibrated Panasonic or Pioneer plasma and put the “300” in Bluray with a 1080p/24hz player and find the same HD-DVD player.

      People will sit, for hours and they won’t know the f’ing difference (or care).

        • rsaeire
        • 12 years ago

        The point I am making is that as there is no difference between a Blu-ray version of a movie and HD-DVD version. The fact that there is a higher bitrate and the conversion is less on Blu-ray is pointless when they look exactly the same. If there is no difference then the point in Blu-ray’s favour is mute.

        You state this yourself when saying “People will sit, for hours and they won’t know the f’ing difference (or care).” I think you should read my comment properly before replying in future; you could have saved yourself a post.

        • Vrock
        • 12 years ago

        Well, people will never notice a difference with 300 because there isn’t one. Warner uses the exact same video encode for Blu-ray as they do for HD-DVD. This has frustrated some Blu-ray fans because they feel Warner isn’t using Blu-ray’s capabilities to the fullest.

    • fpsduck
    • 12 years ago

    Hold your horse.
    The HD DVD vs Blu-Ray war is not over yet.
    The new contender is just arrived.

    HD VMD
    §[< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Multilayer_Disc<]§

      • Vrock
      • 12 years ago

      Meh, it might make strides in the data market or overseas movie studios but I’ll be shocked if any of the big US movie studios support it.

    • sjpeters79
    • 12 years ago

    sweet deal… to bad it’s not being offered in canada

    • Krogoth
    • 12 years ago

    Pffft, neither format will win.

    Both are already doomed to be become the next SACD/DVD-A.

    I do think BR will likely defeat HD-DVD as next-generation of optical media for data.

      • Vrock
      • 12 years ago

      You keep saying this, but you never explain why. Other than your silly assertion that high quality 1080p VOD is only months away! Pfft.

      Looking at the current situation, at this point there are two probable outcomes:

      1) Blu will win.
      2) Neither will win, the format war will continue and HDM will remain a niche market until it is replaced by The Next Big Thing ™.

      Either one is equally probable right now. Warner could tip the scales in favor of Blu, but not HD. Warner goes Blu, format war over within months. Warner goes HD, it’s a draw (at least as long as Toshiba can continue to sell players at a huge loss, and their pockets aren’t as deep as Sony’s).

        • rsaeire
        • 12 years ago

        I have to laugh at theose comments by Krogoth. One of the biggest format wars of all time shall be over because…? Vrock I must admit, many things from your post I agree with. It is higly unlikely that HD-DVD in the current market climate will win and Blu-ray has the backing of more studios which makes it even more likely that that format would win. I would love to see a winner soon though because this war is getting boring!

        • UberGerbil
        • 12 years ago

        Or, #3, combo drives will drop in price to the point where everybody now on the fence buys them, and (except among the lunatic “videophile” fringe) the only ultimate impact of the “war” will be the blue/red trim color on the box when consumers take the disc out to put in their players.

          • Vrock
          • 12 years ago

          I suppose that’s possible, but CEMs haven’t exactly rallied ’round combo drives. You’ve got LG and Samsung. LG’s first foray into combo drives resulted in a unit that didn’t support the advanced interactive features of HD-DVD. Samsung hasn’t exactly made a great name for themselves with their Blu-ray drives, so I’m skeptical about any combo offering they dish out.

          Maybe I’m totally wrong, but I just don’t see prices falling on combo drives in the near future. The CEMs who make them also make Blu-ray drives (but not HD-DVD) so there’s really no reason for them to make huge price cuts on their combo drives and undercut themselves on the Blu side.

          In the meantime, if you’ve got $600-$700 to spend on a combo drive, you might as well buy a PS3 and a HD-A3 or HD-A20.

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            Heh, I just realized that I paid $330 for my HD-A1 (a refurb at that!) about a year ago. Of course, my HD-A1 has something the HD-A2 doesn’t…an analog 5.1 output that lets me enjoy lossless sound over my older receiver. It’s a shame Tosh didn’t carry that over to the A2 and A3.

    • Alex
    • 12 years ago

    w00t! Just picked up mine from Wal-Mart! Comes with HDMI cable. Very cool deal.

    • MadManOriginal
    • 12 years ago

    ‘Holiday sales’ two days after Halloween. Great. America truly is ‘Consumed.’ Everyone should do themself a favor and read the book by that title.

      • Inkedsphynx
      • 12 years ago

      What’s wrong with saving some money, or getting a good price on something you want?

        • poulpy
        • 12 years ago

        Nothing wrong with a good deal but that’s not his point, he’s talking about the fact that the /[<"'Holiday sales' [starts only] two days after Halloween"<]/ which would be close to perpetual consuming I guess.

    • FroBozz_Inc
    • 12 years ago

    Hooray, I got one this morning. Got in line @ 6:15am, store opened @ 7:00am, sale didn’t begin until 8:00am.

    They handed out tickets to us in line, and everything was sold out before the doors even opened at 7:00am.

    It was insane in there between 7 and 8 though. I was glad to escape with my life.

      • JJCDAD
      • 12 years ago

      I couldn’t quite make it through that guy’s entire rant, but it sounds like he’s just saying Toshiba can’t make money selling the player that cheap.

      Does Toshiba really plan to make their nut selling their own branded hardware? Or do they get a cut of HD-DVD license fees paid by other hardware manufacturers and movie studios?

      I’m not really pulling for either format over the other. I just want affordable HD now!

        • Vrock
        • 12 years ago

        There are no other real manufacturers of HD-DVD players. Toshiba is pretty much the only horse in town (compared to Blu-ray, which has several electronics manufacturers backing the format). They are the ones who essentially created and are now backing the HD-DVD format. So yeah, they’re essentially blowing their wad on this.

      • StashTheVampede
      • 12 years ago

      Bluray, from a technical standpoint, is better with:
      – Amount of storage on disk
      – More levels of DRM for studios (heavily on the region lockout)
      – Higher bitrate encoding specification for A/V
      – Higher standards for players (1080p/24hz is on just about all players, another with the new audio codecs)

      AV guys tend to like space (in general), which is why DTS was consider superior to DD — DTS used less compression. Unfortunately, Sony wasn’t willing to work with the HD-DVD consortium (made up of roughly the same that made DVD) to get upgrades to specs, etc. It was Sony’s way, or the highway.

      • rsaeire
      • 12 years ago

      “Bluray, from a technical standpoint, is better…”

      Praising Blu-ray for their larger capacity per standard disc is fruitless. I could go on and on about dual-layer, triple-layer etc but I won’t as this argument has gone back and forth long enough.

      The DRM point is also mute one as the DRM on both formats have been cracked and will continue to be as long as the movie studios tighten their reign on media.

      The higher bit-rate amounts for nothing when there is no discernible difference in picture and or audio quality when compared to HD-DVD.

      In addition, the fact that you praise Blu-ray for their “Higher standards for players” is laughable since Blu-ray players, up until the Panasonic DMP-BD30 was announced, did not have the ability for picture-in-picture due to their lack of secondary audio and video decoders.

      I applaud the benefits of both formats but if there is going to be a winner then “we” as the public will have to back either one or the other. Once this occurs I am confident that the movie studios will follow Paramount’s suit and change their allegiance to whichever format is winning by a substantial margin.

        • StashTheVampede
        • 12 years ago

        Go do a little reading and look at the guy who wrote the article.

        Bluray, is better, because of the higher bitrates allowed because of the additional storage — the audio and video are compressed less to deliver a picture. From someone at thedigitialbits, whose sole purpose is to get the highest quality A/V onto a disc, they would appreciate this more than anyone else.

        DRM point is NOT mute. I’m not talking about cracking the encryption — not a lot of people spend time on their computers ripping DVDs and putting them on their HTPC. TR readers will, many many others don’t have a clue and/or desire (I still find it funny when friends come over and see a Disney movie playing without the warning messages and commercial). DRM on Bluray *can* be updated, keys *can* be revoked AND, most importantly, Bluray HAS region encoding. This feature, alone, has pushed studios to support Bluray, since they want to sell the same movie on multiple regions. New Line is heavily pushing HD-DVD on this and their stance is staying region-free (good for consumers).

        Bluray’s specs for players is different than HD-DVD in several ways. All players require 1080p/24hz, different audio codecs, ethernet updating. This A2 player is a fine 1080i player, but isn’t 1080p. From a manufacturing standpoint, the 1080i player is cheaper to produce (a goal of HD-DVD is flexibility with manufacturing) and looks quite good with both HD and DVD sources. When you complain about PIP — it’s a feature that ISN’T in the original Bluray 1.0 spec! It *IS* a feature in the 1.0 spec of HD-DVD (that’s why all players support it), just not Bluray 1.0 (not heavily an issue, but a few players may NOT be able to upgrade to 1.1). From a high-end AV perspective, Bluray is delivering a very consistent player from any manufacturer — it’s all high-end stuff, no matter the name brand.

        Movie studios will back the winning format, but it really is going to depend on which numbers they read. Bluray movies *are* outselling HD-DVDs nearly 2:1 — let’s see if Xmas helps HD-DVD.

        Let’s be clear, I *have* the A2 player and hopes Bluray loses the battle.

          • Fearless Leader
          • 12 years ago

          But the thing is that HD-DVD has already perfected a triple layer hd-dvd disc and added more space to existing layers, essentially coming up with 51 GB disc, which they say works with existing players. Currently that is better than what Blu-ray has shown. So now, HD-DVD HAS the space advantage. If Bill Hunt fails to mention that, then he is a liar and too proud to change his opinion.

          I hope Blu-ray loses the battle, too.

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            Actually no, Toshiba has not indicated that triple layer discs will work with existing players, and they’ve been talking about it for months now but there’s no shipping product. Heck even 34gb dual layer discs haven’t popped up on the market yet. I wouldn’t bank on seeing them anytime soon, if at all.

      • Cuhulin
      • 12 years ago

      The problem with Hunt’s rant is that it is nonsense, because essentially everything he says is true about BlueRay as well, only he won’t acknowledge it.

      He says Toshiba is dumping these players, so it is losing money, yet he ignores the fact that Sony does the same thing by subsidizing the PS3 so heavily.

      He says that Toshiba is the only manufacturer of HD DVD, when LG is on its second generation of combo systems and Samsung is about to introduce one as well — legitimate ways to sell HD DVD while differentiating models.

      To me Hunt’s whole piece sounds like an injured, worried fanboy.

      In my mind, the only way consumers win this war is if HD DVD wins with large player sales. BlueRay just costs too much and is designed that way, so it is doubtful that it ever would have the necessary market penetration to replace DVD’s. After a while, the retailers and studios will just give up, like the retailers record companies did with post-CD audio formats.

      The low prices on entry-level HD DVD systems, however, allow a consumer to try it, and they risk very little, since the cost is so low. At $400-$500, there is just too much risk, even if HD DVD shut down, in buying a player. My own thought would be HD DVD failed, so why would anyone risk that large a sum on an alternate format.

      • UberGerbil
      • 12 years ago

      Combo drives have the best chance of ending the war. People lining up on one side or the other are the people who are /[

    • 2_tyma
    • 12 years ago

    good price i just wish the combo blu ray and hddvd gets down to 200 or less than itd be game over.

      • Vrock
      • 12 years ago

      Hopefully after this holiday season we won’t have a need for combo machines.

        • poulpy
        • 12 years ago

        Do you really believe one of the two formats (BlueRay I take) is going to be the clear winner after the holiday season?
        I for one don’t see this happening now and not even sure one of the two will ever win and become a single dominant format like DVD is.

        I don’t know how it is in the states and for people around you but in France and UK out of maybe a 200 people I know (family, friends, workmates) less than 10 have a HD TV (only one Full HD) and only one of those is using HD content (satellite extra HD package).

        IMO even if people tend to renew their telly for a HD set, because it’s becoming the de facto standard in shops, the penetration of HD content is still extremely poor. I’m pretty sure that I could count on my fingers out of those 200 people the ones that know what HD ready/ Full HD and HD-DVD/BlueRay is.

        Not sure if any of those formats is going to win but $100 players are definitely going to help IMO.

          • Inkedsphynx
          • 12 years ago

          I think the problem with that line of reasoning is that consumer electronics have always been pushed primarily by the US and Japan. One of many reasons the EU is usually the last to have a game or piece of hardware released to it.

          If sales work well enough for one format in Japan and the US, then one format will win. I don’t think the EU will be much of a factor in the decision of which format it’ll be, if either.

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            Well it’s not a /[<"line of reasoning"<]/, I'm just saying that from here I don't see it happening. Now if you tell me (prove would be better I guess) that HD players/discs and HD receivers are selling very well in both the US and Japan (and people know the technologies behind it) then fair enough we may have a winner down the road. But given the sales figure I see here and there I'm not so sure HD content is really upon us just yet, let alone a winner in the battle. I don't really know why EU is second class citizen when it comes to electronics though, I mean if you look at the console market EU is second to the US but at the level or superior to Japan. Which is far from insignificant business wise.

          • Vrock
          • 12 years ago

          I’m hopeful that this holiday season will cause the last and biggest movie studio (Warner) to pick a side and go with it. They even said as much a few days back. If Warner goes Blu exclusive, HD-DVD will be dead in a year. If Warner goes HD-DVD exclusive, the format war will continue to drag on, jeoporadizing the future of optical HDM and ensuring it stays a niche market at best.

          If I were a betting man, I’d say Warner will go Blu after looking at 4th quarter sales: Blu has routinely outsold HD-DVD for nearly 11 months now (and total titles since inception), and I think that trend will continue through the holidays. I hope it does, if for no other reason then it can help to end this pointless war.

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            I’m not sure the delta in sales is relevant at this point because the volume is still very low. BluRay is outselling HD-DVD at 2:1 at the moment but I don’t think any of the two format is near the needed critical mass to win it.

            When “300” got out people got over-excited with what was a historical high sales for HD content and a win for BluRay. Now looking into it the sales of HD-DVD and BluRay COMBINED represent less than 5% of the total of the DVD ones…

            I agree the format war should have been avoided for a smoother transition and lower costs. If I were a betting man I’d say that with low-cost HD-DVD players alongside slightly cheaper discs than BR may tilt the balance towards HD-DVD and we’ll head for a long “battle of midgets” scrapping for a couple of % of market share for quite a long time. In the end people may just decided to get HD a satellite or cable box and screw both HD discs.

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            It’s absolutely relevant. What else is going to decide the war? As for market share, well, one of the major things that’s keeping people away from HD is the format war: nobody wants to plunk down cash on a format that could well be the loser. Plus, in the case of Warner Bros which is neutral, retailers have to devote twice the space to the same title. And they hate that.

            And HD-DVD discs are *not* cheaper, at all, at least not as far as the consumer is concerned. In fact, many of the discs are more expensive then their Blu-ray counterparts (like 300) because HD-DVD insists on charging a premium for combo discs. Of course on the Blu-ray side you have Fox which outrageously overcharges for their discs, so if anything there’s parity on price on the disc front.

            A satellite and/or HD cable is nice, but it’s about as much of a good alternative to HD/Blu-ray as chewing tobacco is to smoking.

            Another thing, Toshiba may see some short term results from this dumping, but it really hurts them too. They’re the only mainstream CEM making HD-DVD machines…and they aren’t going to get anyone else to want to make them by continually selling them at a huge loss. What CEM would want to get in on that? A single hardware manufacturer and two exclusive studios (one of which is on a eighteen month only contract) does not a viable format make. Yeah, the Blu-ray disc player prices are higher, and that makes them profitable, which makes that market a no-brainer for CEMs compared to HD-DVD.

            HD-DVD just doesn’t have good odds of winning this war. Anyone who buys into the format should accept that. I know I did.

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            It starts to be relevant only if the volume reaches a certain amount, as long as they’re both completely dwarfed by DVDs (and <5% cumulative IS) they could fight forever without a victory.

            Over here in UK and FR apart from the latest and greatest releases which come at the same price the overall catalogue puts HD-DVD slightly cheaper (~$30 vs ~$40 I’d say).

            As I said I don’t know many people with money to blow on a potentially born-dead technology so they keep their DVD players or settle for “chewing” as you call it which will allow them to watch Transformers unlike people who cashed in for BluRay (and vice versa for the other exclusives) 🙂

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            You continue to miss the point. HDM won’t have a high marketshare vs. DVD until there’s just one HD format. There won’t be one format until studios are convinced that consumers prefer a given format. Consumers have consistently shown over the past 11 months that they prefer Blu-ray to HD-DVD. If this trend continues, the HD-DVD studios will eventually concede in the interest of making more money.

            Either way, DVD will continue to be made for long time, just like VHS was when DVD was the new format.

            There’s something wrong with your prices in the UK. Not only are your titles ridiculously overpriced at $60 and $80 a pop, there shouldn’t be the price difference between the two formats you say there is. I suggest you check out amazon.com (the US site) and compare prices.

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            /[<"You continue to miss the point"<]/ That's very open minded of you, what about you missing the point? IMO: - delta in sales won't be relevant as long as it stays a niche market fight - it won't reach a "high market share" being dual format indeed but it needs to reach a critical mass point to start to really matter and get one of the two out of the market - otherwise it can stay a niche fight forever (you even acknowledged it in another post) My prices were in *[<$<]* not in *[<£<]* therefore -again- $40/$30 and not $60/$80. And yes it must be more expensive that what you pay in the US but as usual in includes VAT and other taxes. I've checked prices from hmv and fnac (two large megastores chains in UK and FR) and it was roughly the same pattern. I don't mind having some banter but I'm not going to dedicate more time into data mining really. Anyway there's no real need to delve more into theories, let's agree to disagree and time will tell but a) I'm not convinced there's going to be a winner at all and b) if there is a winner I'd bank for the cheaper of the two, that's what happened last time around. So let's resume this in a year or two.

            • Inkedsphynx
            • 12 years ago

            There’s two ways one format can win.

            Either Warner will move over to support Blu-Ray, meaning that the vast majority of films will be released on Blu-Ray exclusively…

            or

            Enough consumers will start buying the formats to make them relevant in a mainstream fashion. When this happens, it’ll be a matter of the largest percentage of these consumers purchasing one format over another.

            Right now, if 75% of people buy Blu-Ray, but both formats combined are only selling 25,000 discs a month, nothing will happen. But if it’s 75% and 500,000 (all numbers for illustration purposes only), then that will have a big effect, and might convince the remaining supporters of HD-DVD to give it up.

            Anyway, I think you’re both a little right, and a little wrong. As with most things in life, it’s always somewhere in between.

            (For the record, I own both formats discs and players).

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            30-40 pounds sterling= $60 to $80 USD, but nevermind.

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            But what’s wrong with you?!
            The prices I gave you were in *[

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            You originally wrote them out in pounds, not dollars. Look again. How was I supposed to know you meant dollars when you wrote pounds?

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            This is getting better and better, would you mind pointing me out where did I wrote them in Pounds? Because as far as I can see both #55 and #57 are in bloody *[< $<]* #55 -> §[<https://techreport.com/ja.zz?id=295923< ]§ #57 -> §[<https://techreport.com/ja.zz?id=295950<]§ Do you honestly read what I write before hitting reply?

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            I could have sworn you wrote it orginally in pounds. If not, I’m sorry. If you did, and you changed it, then at least own up to it. Either way, you don’t need to be a dick about it.

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            Me being a dick about it?!
            This particular point isn’t a big deal but it shows it’s clearly pointless to chat with you if you don’t read the posts, try to have the last word at all cost and then resort to insult when proven wrong..
            But yeah right I must have changed my posts and then hacked the server so that the timestamps don’t give me away.

            Edit: (this is an edit) I guess “my bad” was just too long to type

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            Time stamps, I just noticed them. You’re right, I completely misread your posts, I saw pounds when there weren’t any. My apologies.

            • poulpy
            • 12 years ago

            Well now it’s seems a bit out of proportions but it was just frustrating to fail at communication 101. No hard feelings.

            • UberGerbil
            • 12 years ago

            Combo drives will decide the war. If Warner goes HD-DVD, in your example, the war will drag out until combo players hit the $250 threshold, and market will shift from DVD players to combo players. At that point, the “war” between HD-DVD and BR will matter exactly as much as the “war” between DVD+R and DVD-R. “It will play anything” is a very easy sell to consumers, and in fact is more comforting than “you’re investing in the format that probably is going to win” and is certainly easier to understand than “You’ve bought into the winner but you won’t be able to play certain movies from certain studios for a while.”

            Combo drives, combo drives, combo drives. BR and HD won’t win or lose, they’ll just become irrelevant. The only people who will feel cheated will be the early adopters who bought a player that wasn’t a combo drive (and I gather that includes you, which is why you’re pulling so hard for BR to “win”). But that’s a common fate of early adopters.

      • JokerCPoC
      • 12 years ago

      I know I’d buy one of those Combo HD DVD/Blu-ray DVD players and yeah under $150 would be very good.

    • StashTheVampede
    • 12 years ago

    I have this player connected to a 1080p set — it’s a great upscaler.

    • maxxcool
    • 12 years ago

    I will buy it for 99$.

    • albundy
    • 12 years ago

    heh, even if it sold for $10, there is no reason for me to get one, as I have no HD-DVDs nor the TV for it.

    I will only consider dual format recorders.

    • Thresher
    • 12 years ago

    I might buy an add on unit for my XBox 360 if the price dips well under $100, but until there is some sort of resolution on which path to take, I’m not willing to spend a lot of money on next-gen players.

    • Shinare
    • 12 years ago

    I’ve been reading a lot of “Hot Deal” sites about this deal, both walmart and Best Buy’s , and I’ve noticed a lot of “I’ve been on the fence, but now I’m gonna get HD-DVD” type of posts. Seems like this trick is working on most people out there. Guess this is the sucker punch HD-DVD needed to get it’s format on top. Thats a shame, too. I guess we can welcome with open arms our HD-DVD overlords now.

    • PcItalian
    • 12 years ago

    Relayed the info down to my mother, who’s very interested since i hooked them up with a “HD” LCD at the beginning of the year, looks like she’s going to attempt to get one for “Such a grand price”.

    By “HD” i meant 720p, which is the industry standard right now, so the fact that this player doesnt do 1080p is fine by her. I’ll stay away till i know the format war is over.

    • Gilligan
    • 12 years ago

    that player does not output 1080p

      • stix
      • 12 years ago

      No but TV’s deinterlace it to 1080P so there is no difference. So why buy the upper model just for 1080P output? You will see no difference.

        • Vrock
        • 12 years ago

        Providing, of course, your 1080p TV properly deinterlaces 1080i film-based content. Many of them don’t.

          • stix
          • 12 years ago

          If you want 1080P/24 then get a 1080P player. Want a 1080P picture get a A2. I have yet to see a TV not do it. Not may tv’s can do 1080p/24 anyway.

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            There are lots of TVs that don’t deinterlace properly, sorry.

            • Gilligan
            • 12 years ago

            so is the 1080i content sent to the TV at 60 frames per second? So if it is deinterlaced it should have 30 fps … right?

            Or is the content sent at 1080i at 30 FPS? That is essentially HALF the bandwidth of 1080p30FPS, which would suck.

            so is it 1080i_30 or 1080i_60 ??

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            Interlaced resolutions deal in fields, not frames. Two fields (an even and an odd) make up one “frame”.

            When you take a native 1080p/24 signal (which is what Blu-ray and HD-DVD have) and output it as 1080i/60, you’re doing 3:2 pulldown in the player. But if you’re sending the feed to a 1080p TV, it has to be turned back into a progressive signal to be displayed. The correct method of doing this is 2:3 pulldown (also known as reverse telecine). It’s pretty technical, but the bottom line is that some TVs do this correctly, and some don’t. On those that don’t, you’ll get weird stairstepping artifacts, moire patterns, or decreased resolution in the case of bobbing.

            It’s always preferable in any case to feed the TV its native resolution to avoid issues like this. Shelling out a $100 more for a player that outputs 1080p/24 or even 1080p/60 is worth it.

            • stix
            • 12 years ago

            You sound more like a BD fanboy. Come on Vrock if its a 1080P TV it can deinterlace the 1080i signal. If it could not it would not be a 1080p set.

            • Inkedsphynx
            • 12 years ago

            I am with Vrock here.

            There’s a big difference between “Can do it” and “Can do it correctly”. That goes for anything in life. Arguing otherwise is asinine.

            • stix
            • 12 years ago

            And that seems to be what your doing 🙂

            There is no difference in picture. Just go check out the AVS forums. Alot more knowledge there than from you two

            • Inkedsphynx
            • 12 years ago

            EDIT: Meh, not worth it. Keep believing what you will.

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            I suggest you go check out Cnet and take a look at how many TVs don’t correctly deinterlace a 1080i film signal.

            I visit AVS alot. Like any other place on the internet, it’s a mixture of great information and steaming piles of crap. It’s the wikipedia of the AV world, use it at your own risk and always look for a second viewpoint.

            • stix
            • 12 years ago

            “it’s a mixture of great information and steaming piles of crap.”

            Kinda like you 🙂

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            You’d rather attack the poster than debate the point, eh? That speaks volumes. Not only are you unable to accept the simple fact that not all TVs can properly deinterlace 1080i film based content, but you take it personally! Thanks for playing.

            • stix
            • 12 years ago

            I could link all day to facts and all the research done and it will not please you so why should I bother. So here is a simple way of saying it

            “It’s important for people to understand that, in principle, you don’t lose info. with 1080i. However, I think it’s also important to emphasize that, in practice, deinterlacing is not trivial, and that therefore virtually all TV’s (and progressive scan DVD players) introduce some degree of error into the process (even if it’s not the kind of wholesale error”

            Meaning you will not see it with the naked eye. They use special test to verify this… Why do they do it? Because in reality you cannot see it.

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            Wow, you finally admit that I’m right, but now you’ve switched tactics. Instead of flat-out denying what I’ve said is true, now you’re going to try to trivialize it. How sad.

            Look, faulty deinterlacing is quite noticeable in some places, (such as areas where there are lots of horizontal lines and panning), less so in others. Again, it depends on how the TV is doing the deinterlacing (reverse telecine, to be more precise). Some of the cheaper ones just do a bob and cut your vertical resolution to 540p. That’s extremely noticeable.

            Again, I don’t know why you’re taking this so personally. You act like I kicked your dog or something. All I’ve done is point out that if your TV doesn’t deinterlace 1080i film based content properly, you aren’t going to get the same picture as a native 1080p feed could provide. TVs that do perform correct 2:3 are a rarity, even some of the more expensive models from Samsung and Sony flub this test. If you’re not bothered by this, then fine, but trying to pretend that 1) it doesn’t exist, and 2) if it does, it’s not a big deal is just dishonest. What stake do you have in this, anyway?

            • stix
            • 12 years ago

            Really I am not taking it seriously. I started out as joking then you got a bit worked up. I am just sayin gall TV’s do it just some better than others. And it takes a special test to see the faults. Most of the time you will never see it unless the set it simply horrid. Most are not.

            I am just saying people would be happy with 1080I/p most would never tell a difference. Unless the set it really bad. I only disagreed that it looked bad compared to 1080i

            Happy 🙂

            Sorry for the jokes but its all in fun

            • Vrock
            • 12 years ago

            No, sorry that’s just not true. You should really check out some cnet reviews of 1080p TVs, you’ll be surprised how many fail the 1080i film resolution deinterlacing test.

            BTW, I own both formats…and one of my players is a HD-A1, which outputs-you guessed it-1080i. So save the fanboy comments for AVS, thank you very much.

            • stix
            • 12 years ago

            Yada yada. And you goto cnet for reviews?? Thats the worst spot possible.

      • wierdo
      • 12 years ago

      (deleted) nvm.

    • FroBozz_Inc
    • 12 years ago

    Doh! You all can stay home! The line’s going to be big enough in the morning as it is!

    /jedi mind trick: “there is no sale, carry on”

    • insulin_junkie72
    • 12 years ago

    OF COURSE it’s a doorbuster, Black Friday-type limited-quantity item 😛 That’s the point. They’re also selling a Celeron-based Acer laptop w/1GB for $348, and a 50-inch plasma, too.

    The A2 is a discontinued model, so it’s not like they’d be able to get replacement stock, in any event.

      • Corrado
      • 12 years ago

      Right but if this is $98, you know that there will be other players for ~ $150 normally very shortly.

        • insulin_junkie72
        • 12 years ago

        Cheap Chinese players will be here sooner than later, certainly.

        I was more pointing out the ‘bait-and-switch’ mention being thrown out in the intro – it’s not bait and switch anymore than any other limited-supply loss leader item advertised during the holiday season. They’re not advertising it as a regular sale or anything – it’s a limited time offer while supplies last, etc. etc.

        WalMart’s just trying to get the jump on their competition and try to get people spending even sooner than normal.

        Best Buy is matching the price, but there’s not likely too many of them left in their stores, since Toshiba phased out this model – I suppose they figured it’s good PR to not let WalMart undercut them this early in the holiday season (or pre-holiday season) AND clears out their inventory of an old model, in the bargain.

          • SPOOFE
          • 12 years ago

          I don’t know why people continue to express surprise at behavior that A: makes sense and B: is decades old.

        • Gilligan
        • 12 years ago

        good point

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