Nvidia responds to negative Intel PR

As one might expect, Nvidia responded promptly to the Intel allegations we heard about yesterday, sending us an e-mail with its "counter-presentation" this afternoon. In case you missed our news post, Intel reportedly sent out a slide deck that criticizes Nvidia’s Ion platform and says Intel chipsets are better-suited to netbooks. So, what does Nvidia have to say?

The presentation directly addresses some of the allegations, like the claim that Ion increases power consumption compared to Intel’s own platform. According to Nvidia, Ion’s MCP79 integrated graphics chipset may have a significantly higher TDP than the Intel equivalent, but "typical power" is only half a watt higher—9.5W instead of 9.0W, to be precise. The Nvidia presentation quotes two hours and 40 minutes of battery life for an Intel 945GSE-powered system, and it says moving to an MCP79 only decreases that by nine minutes (although there’s no mention of other system components or testing methodology).

As for Intel’s "window of opportunity" assertion, Nvidia claims the next-generation Atom platform won’t bring significant graphics performance improvements. On the other hand, the Ion 2 platform coming in the fourth quarter will "expand . . . performance & features." Also, Ion 2 will work with Via’s Nano CPUs.

Finally, Nvidia included a list of current MCP79-powered systems, as well as endorsements from Microsoft and the press for good measure. The firm still hasn’t announced any partners with Ion-based products in the pipeline, though.

Comments closed
    • YeuEmMaiMai
    • 11 years ago

    Nvidia needs to go back to renaming old products with new part numbers so the suckers can buy a 8800GT that has been renamed to a GT250 or whatever

    • Ashbringer
    • 11 years ago

    All Nvidia has to do is bring back SoundStorm and everyone will be happy.

      • swaaye
      • 11 years ago

      In order for that to have a change of happening, there would have to be a reason for them to design an audio DSP for a game console. That’s were NVAPU came from. It was an attempt to make some more money off of Xbox R&D and test to see if the mobo market was interested (it generally wasn’t.)

      There really is not much reason to even try anymore. You have the Realtek “HD” chips now that offer damn near everything, probably almost for free. Sure it lacks DDLive, but just how many people need that. I have a PC rigged to a receiver thru 5.1 analog which is actually better because it’s lossless. Basically any old sound solution can do that, including the vast second-hand nearly-free Creative back catalog and anything Realtek made in the past ~5 years.

    • ludi
    • 11 years ago

    mis-post

    • deruberhanyok
    • 11 years ago

    l[

      • odizzido
      • 11 years ago

      The can also make the battery lighter and still maintain standard battery life of laptops.

      Of course not all netbooks do this. The eee1000HE does close to 8hrs on one charge.

    • cygnus1
    • 11 years ago

    As I understand it, Intel bundles the chipset with the Atom price, whether you take it or not. If I were an OEM, I wouldn’t bother with ION right now either. I just don’t think enough people are willing to pay extra for some minor multimedia improvements to get OEM’s worrying about it. Netbooks basically fly off the shelves as it is.

    I personally won’t buy a netbook until it’s capable of full screening web video and playback of at least 720P files while attached to an external display via HDMI. But I also won’t pay the price for two chipsets that will inevitably be passed along if an OEM adopts ION and Intel continues to charge for Atom the way it currently does.

      • cygnus1
      • 11 years ago

      Lol, also, i want a netbook that has a true dual core chip, couldn’t care less for any of that hyper-threading crap. and 4GB of ram. with how cheap ram is, and how slow netbook hard drives are, this should be a good goal to get to.

        • A_Pickle
        • 11 years ago

        So, you want… a notebook?

          • cygnus1
          • 11 years ago

          Guess it’s a game of definition. I only really define a netbook by the form factor and maybe power usage, not necessarily capability. I’m fine with the power of the dual core Atom.

          The only reason the media capabilities and ram capacity are limited in it’s current uses are because Intel foists crap chipsets on everyone. If you put the ION platform and the dual core Atom in a netbook, you’d have everything I want.

          The problem is that nobody wants to pay for both an nVidia AND Intel chipset, and that’s the position in which Intel is forcing OEM’s.

          EDIT: Actually, I would pay for both. LOL, if the OEM supplied the Intel chipset as a keyring or paper weigh or something.

      • rhema83
      • 11 years ago

      This reminds me of MS bundling IE with Windows, whether you like it or not. Why hasn’t the US / EU gone after Intel for abuse of monopolistic power?

        • MadManOriginal
        • 11 years ago

        Probably because it’s not true. All the ‘Intel only sells Atom along with chipset’ is FUD afaik.

    • Forge
    • 11 years ago

    Ok, so everyone has been laying into Intel’s 945GSE for being hotter than the CPU and the biggest power waste in the system, and Nvidia’s holding themselves up for praise because THEY’RE NOT MUCH WORSE???

    Sure, Nvidia’s chipset is much higher performance, but nobody I’ve heard has complained that their 945GSE-based netbook is slow, while many have complained of the chipset HSF making the CPU HS look huge, with the chipset still being fairly toasty under load.

    So Nvidia gives you something you didn’t ask for while making the problems you’ve complained about worse. Sounds about right.

      • dermutti
      • 11 years ago

      I think the point is that while Nvidia’s product uses more power and generates more heat, it’s at least justified in doing so. The 945 on the other hand doesn’t seem to give a whole lot in return for the power it draws.

      As for people complaining about netbooks being slow, I only know one person that has one and he never touches it because it has too much lag for common activities. Regardless, though, this is more likely a problem of him going from a 2.6 Core 2 Duo to a 1.6 Atom. Hopefully the dual core Atom used in Nvidia’s reference design will solve most of this problem.

      • jdaven
      • 11 years ago

      Intel’s integrated graphics chip is without a doubt one of the worst chips in the industry. For the largest chip maker in the world, there is no reason for this. For someone to defend Intel for making this chip, boggles my mind.

      BTW, people who buy this chip have no idea what anything in the computer does much less complain about it. So those people you ‘know’ wouldn’t know why there hi res video is slow or why heavy graphic webpages load slow or why any game they play past the level of graphics in solitaire is too slow to play. They just simply think they bought a cheap computer and that’s why it’s slow.

      Guys it doesn’t have to be this way. Educate your friends, family, neighbors, enemies that for a little bit more money, these problems don’t have to be.

        • A_Pickle
        • 11 years ago

        Hear, hear. jdaven is on point.

        I hate Intel graphics. If I had to pick one component of modern computers, and justify it as being the component which holds back the potential of mass, society-wide computing… I’d pick Intel f***ing graphics.

        The fact is, jdaven is right. Intel really doesn’t have a damn excuse as to why their smaller, financially handicapped (relatively speaking) competitors are able to deliver chips which are similar only in function — and leave Intel’s in the dust everywhere else. AMD and Nvidia have FANTASTIC IGP’s, and Intel doesn’t. Intel JUST released their FIRST IGP that natively supports HDMI output, and it still sucks at gaming, and I’m pretty sure it lacks any sort of HD decode-assist or video post processing…

          • no51
          • 11 years ago

          because, the public has been conditioned to care only about mhz instead of a balanced computer. quadcore with 8gb of ram with an igp? it’ll sell like hotcakes!

            • stdRaichu
            • 11 years ago

            Heh… I have a quad with 8GB of RAM and a G35 IGP… 😀

            To be brutally honest, I like Intel graphics because they save me a shedload of money and power on machines that don’t need any real 3D grunt.

            • jdaven
            • 11 years ago

            This might be true for you but if Intel denies nVidia a license for CPUs with integrated memory controllers then everyone is forced to be just like you.

            Someone of us want a cheap graphics solution that will work for small form factor media centers that have all the necessary graphics ports and can encode/decode video at all resolutions and decent frame rates.

            Just think. When all Intel CPUs (mobile, server/workstation, desktop) migrate to the new Core i7/i5 architecture, you will not be able to buy one single, I repeat, one single computer anywhere in the world with an integrated graphics chip other than Intel. If you want something better, you will have to buy AMD or VIA. For many HTPC and small form factor customers, this is a major, major concern.

            • stdRaichu
            • 11 years ago

            Don’t get me wrong, I also love the nV and ATI IGP’s – was just pointing out that, like pretty much everyone, it’s essential to have choice. I have a 9300 in one of my media boxes too. Sure, most people here are into gaming but I think even the most die-hard gamergeek wouldn’t want to waste power on graphics for something like their daughters school machine or a file server, and for these purposes even the lamest Intel IGP’s are usually perfectly adequate. Heck, my laptop has a GMA in it and it’s fine with compiz at 1440×900.

            And yeah, the whole bus license thing really does stink. I’m hoping that antitrust will come down on them like a ton of bricks if interoperability is flat-out refused… heck, I’d be even happier if I could get ATI chipsets with intel processors too.

            • A_Pickle
            • 11 years ago

            Honestly, though… you could make a pretty good media center with an AMD dual-core with a Radeon HD 3200 IGP. I suppose the equivalent Intel system would *do*… but… the AMD system would be superior for multimedia tasks.

      • cygnus1
      • 11 years ago

      It’s not really that 945GSE is slow, it’s that it flat out can’t handle doing certain video tasks. Like full screen playback of flash video or offloading higher end video codecs.

      Nvidia is right to point out that for less than a 10% increase in power usage, their chipset CAN do all those things, making a netbook/nettop usable for decent media purposes. Plus they can do a digital output with theirs, which I don’t think the 945GSE can do.

      • ludi
      • 11 years ago

      Uh, so AFAICT, you combined the two most opposed points of seven different arguments and presented them as one big contradition. Huh?

      • kamikaziechameleon
      • 11 years ago

      that isn’t necessarily a fair usesment on your part, because that chipset is about useless, doesn’t even play you tube videos well. on the other hand for slightly, very slight, more power you can increase graphics preformance more than 10 fold, i think it’s a good comparision when you look at benchmarks.

        • eitje
        • 11 years ago

        that must be “assessment”?

      • DrDillyBar
      • 11 years ago

      Intel’s interest in graphics, historically, has been to save people a PCI card. That’s about it.

    • Hattig
    • 11 years ago

    Would it have hurt to post their email for posterity?

    And surely nvidia could get those 9 minutes back by underclocking the chipset a tiny little bit?

    • KarateBob
    • 11 years ago

    Cyril, you said “Finally, Nvidia included a list of current MCP79-powered systems”

    Are you able to post that list? I’d like to know which non-Apple products the 9400 is in.

      • DrDillyBar
      • 11 years ago

      Agreed.

      • kilkennycat
      • 11 years ago

      Search under “GeForce 9300” and “GeForce 9400” on Newegg for the current list of MCP7A/79 uATX/HTPC Core2 motherboards. They all use
      the ‘desktop version’ of the 9400M with all of the integrated-graphics and HD video-decoding goodness, plus RAID 0/1/5 plus Gigabit ethernet, plus support for up to 16Gbytes RAM, plus a handy PCIe x16 slot , plus…..The only difference between the 9300 and 9400 is the GPU clock rate. The video decoding ability is not affected.

      Btw, if you do a little gaming and have a nV8xxx or later graphics card in the PCIe slot on any of these motherboards, you can actually dedicate the 16-stream-processor IGP (which is fully CUDA-capable) exclusively to PhysX and use the discrete graphics card solely for graphics output.

    • DrDillyBar
    • 11 years ago

    They’re getting pretty hot and bothered about a product that isn’t even shipping yet. nVidia must really want to use the last of the Intel FSB chips.

      • dmitriylm
      • 11 years ago

      Well if you were opening a restaurant sometime soon and I owned a competing restaurant that was telling everyone how awful your food will be I think you’d be pretty bothered too. Intel is the one that comes off hot and bothered because this platform obviously presents some kind of threat with the way they have been acting lately.

    • cocobongo_tm
    • 11 years ago

    I wanna see the day when an Nvidia – VIA combo sweeps the floor in every department with the equivalent all-Intel solution. Go non-intel boys!

      • eitje
      • 11 years ago

      I’m with you, but it’s because I have VIA product lust. 🙂

    • bittermann
    • 11 years ago

    It’s like trying to decide who is less evil….blaahhh

      • moshpit
      • 11 years ago

      Right! I don’t wanna root for either of em, I keep hoping they’ll knock each other down a couple of notches so AMD can swoop in and laugh at em both, but I think the only ones who will get knocked down at all are the poor consumer caught in the middle trying to make sense of this battle.

    • MadManOriginal
    • 11 years ago

    In related news: MMA World League has announced a fight between Paul Otellini and Jen-Hsun Huang. Date tbd.

      • destroy.all.monsters
      • 11 years ago

      My money’s on Huang. At least if it is to the death.

      Extreme intelligence(/borderline insanity) + self-righteous rage for the win.

      On a serious note I would love to see one of the Nano/Ion netbooks actually out there.

        • A_Pickle
        • 11 years ago

        Hell, man. It isn’t even that complex:

        Huang: Asian.
        Otellini: Not asian.

        Of course my money’s on Huang. Haven’t you seen Quentin Tarantino movies, where EVERY Asian person knows martial arts, and practices them very very well?

          • BiffStroganoffsky
          • 11 years ago

          I also remember a scrawny white chick kicking all that asian ass in the club scene.

            • A_Pickle
            • 11 years ago

            Not.

            Paul.

            Otellini. 😀

          • lycium
          • 11 years ago

          that’s what EVERYONE in the east does: train to become a ninja (which later involves flying by force of will alone etc.)

          • Fighterpilot
          • 11 years ago

          Intel’s Kung Fu beats Jen Huang’s voodoo like a toy drum.
          With AMD and NVidia making better chipset graphics I imagine there’s a team working on a “Conroe” type project /[< right now<]/ to take the lead away from both of them in another crushing demonstration like they produced a few years back with Core 2 Duo.

            • MadManOriginal
            • 11 years ago

            I think that’s called Larabee, or at least it better be at this point unless Intel has managed extreme secrecy.

      • ludi
      • 11 years ago

      I forget, who wins in an Atom versus Ion cage match? I always get my sub-atomic particle physics mumbo-jumbo confused.

        • DrDillyBar
        • 11 years ago

        An Atom is just a basic unit of matter. An Ion can be an atom or molecule. Hard to call

          • [TR]
          • 11 years ago

          And none of them are sub-atomic ^^

    • henfactor
    • 11 years ago

    Hey Intel, someone did something better than you, SUCK IT UP!

      • brm001
      • 11 years ago

      Not only would Intel never just “suck it up,” but it would be very poor business/PR practice to do so. You can’t leave dead air hanging in the face of your competitors’ advantages.

      • ssidbroadcast
      • 11 years ago

      Yeah, calm the ____ down, Intel. You still have enough money to buy-and-sell various lesser European states.

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