Microsoft discloses Windows 7 pricing

We knew Windows 7’s release date (October 22), and we knew the retail launch will center on three editions (Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate). One crucial piece of the puzzle was still missing: price. Earlier this morning, Microsoft made that information public through the Windows 7 Team Blog.

Straight from the horse’s mouth, here’s what you can expect to pay for full, retail-boxed editions of Windows 7:

  • Windows 7 Home Premium (Full): $199.99
  • Windows 7 Professional (Full): $299.99
  • Windows 7 Ultimate (Full): $319.99
  • And here’s how much Microsoft will charge for upgrades:

  • Windows 7 Home Premium (Upgrade): $119.99
  • Windows 7 Professional (Upgrade): $199.99
  • Windows 7 Ultimate (Upgrade): $219.99
  • The company points out Windows 7 Home Premium will cost a little less than Windows Vista Home Premium. Indeed, a full copy of Vista Home Premium still sets you back $225 at Newegg today.

    Things will be a little bit different in Europe. We already know EU-targeted editions of Windows 7 (dubbed Windows 7 E) won’t come with Internet Explorer pre-installed. Microsoft’s Brandon LeBlanc adds that the Windows team doesn’t have time to get upgrade versions of Windows 7 E ready for the launch, “so in Europe we’re going to basically offer Windows 7 E full version at upgrade prices.”

    What if you need a PC today? From tomorrow until January 31, 2010, Microsoft says people who buy computers from participating PC vendors or retailers will get a Windows 7 upgrade “at little or no cost.” You can head over to windows.com/upgradeoffer tomorrow to learn more.

    Also, the post says folks “in select markets” who shop at “select retail partners” will get to pre-order Windows 7 at less than half price starting tomorrow. The full blog post has more details.

    Comments closed
      • SPOOFE
      • 10 years ago

      I swear I clicked the proper Reply button.

        • SomeOtherGeek
        • 10 years ago

        Nope, you are guilty cuz you commented on it… 😉

      • A_Pickle
      • 10 years ago

      Stupid, Microsoft. You won’t learn until you hit rock bottom at mach 2, and “rock bottom” is “Chapter 11.”

      I know 7 is supposed to be awesome and all, but I’m really tired of paying to get features that should’ve been in place a long time ago. At least with Linux, I could get a somewhat broken OS for free.

      • brucect
      • 10 years ago

      so i f build my own machine 299$
      but if i get hp or dell i only pay 50 bucks because oem
      (they sell shitty 650$ machine with 200 $ hardware on it)
      these prices it will make Windows 7 most pirated version of microsoft windows ever

        • FubbHead
        • 10 years ago

        Actually, if you buy it today, I believe you get the upgrade for free.

        • green
        • 10 years ago

        l[

      • Scrotos
      • 10 years ago

      Cyril, I really wish you had posted the prices of the preorders. $50 and $100? Now THAT is good pricing and I think people would be far less angsty about the whole thing if they saw those numbers, too.

      I mean, I found this stuff out on Ars:

      §[<http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/06/windows-7-preorders-begin-in-the-us-canada-and-japan.ars<]§ But it seems like it'd be a pretty decent point to bring up on the TR article, no?

        • A_Pickle
        • 10 years ago

        But that’s NOT the price of Windows 7, it’s a limited time offer that will go away by the time it launches.

        To Microsoft’s credit, Windows Vista Ultimate started at $399, which was highway robbery. Perhaps this slight drop in pricing is indicative of an evolutionary-not-revolutionary change occurring within Microsoft to alter it’s business model to a more geek-friendly one.

      • PainIs4ThaWeak1
      • 10 years ago

      (*Double Post*)

        • NeXus 6
        • 10 years ago

        You can’t upgrade from the Win7 RC.

      • Usacomp2k3
      • 10 years ago

      I wonder if Home Premium will work on Windows Home Server. If so, I’ll probably go ahead and pre-order 3 copies.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 10 years ago

        What do you mean ‘work on’? Do you mean ‘work with’? I can’t see why it wouldn’t, the only MS OS that doesn’t play nice with WHS is XP-x64 because there is no connector software for it last I knew. XP 32-bit and all editions of Vista 32-bit and 64-bit work.

          • Usacomp2k3
          • 10 years ago

          XP Home or Vista Home Premium don’t allow the remote access functionality which I really like.

            • MadManOriginal
            • 10 years ago

            Oh, you’re talking about using Remote Desktop (or really Terminal Services) through WHS. Saying ‘works on’ WHS had me confused because it’s so broad a question, should have just asked about Remote Desktop. But I’d wager, or at least err on the side of caution, that MS is not going to change their ways unfortunately and add Remote Desktop to Home editions even though it would be nice.

            Aren’t there other software options to give similar functionality? Then again if you go the preorder an upgrade version route even a Business license isn’t too expensive. Or have you tried this hack: §[<http://wiki.wegotserved.com/index.php?title=Enable_Remote_Desktop_Connection_For_Vista_Home_Premium<]§ ?

              • Usacomp2k3
              • 10 years ago

              I have Business on my laptop and Ultimate on my wife’s, so I haven’t had a need to use the hack. Thanks for the link though. I don’t know that I would use it though.
              I got permission from the finance committee to get one copy, now to work on the other 2.

      • PainIs4ThaWeak
      • 10 years ago

      Now here’s a question, (and I’m sure others may fall in the same category).

      When running a 32-bit OS (WinXP 32-bit, for me), can an upgrade version of Win7 64-bit be used?

      If not, then does anyone have any inclination to believe that installing the 64-bit flavor of the Win7 Release Candidate then installing the Win7 64-bit upgrade would work?

        • NeXus 6
        • 10 years ago

        See post 163.

      • fpsduck
      • 10 years ago

      I’m waiting for a new episode of “Get a Mac” ad.

      • indeego
      • 10 years ago

      MS hasn’t lost much share, Vista has above expected adoption rates, and MS likely isn’t displeased with Vista as a moneymaker. They might have their feelings hurt by its reception by the tech community and vendors not exactly embracing it with proper drivers [nvidia, ahem] on release, but from a business revenue perspective Vista is a complete and total success.

      Now if you want to talk long term potential issues, that is a viable argument. MS has to do something about their mobile market, and web apps like Google apps. Because there *is* an entire upcoming generation that doesn’t use Office, nor will they pay hundreds to do so. There is an entire generation of people that avoid Windows Mobile like the plague, and in fact there are some camps of people that are fully mobile and don’t use a desktop OS.

      Watch the web browser share carefully, it has more to do with the future for MS than Operating System sales. MS is losing the browser wars bit by bit, and I think this is much more significant than yet another Client OS release.

      And, of course, some of the complaints on price in this thread are valid. The cost of the desktop OS is now easily 30-50% of the total cost of decent systems, and eventually something will have to give. We’re seeing Linux desktop OS’s get closer and closer every year to *most* of the functionality of Windows, so you have to ask, do I pay g{<$$$<}g for /[

        • Swollen_Goat
        • 10 years ago

        good post, a very plausible perspective on all points.

        • vikramsbox
        • 10 years ago

        Just check how much of Vista was user purchased and how much was OEM bundled into notebooks and desktops which users had to purchase, then you’ll see that Vista’s sales expectations were met at consumers’ expense.

          • jss21382
          • 10 years ago

          Almost everyone of those poor brutalized customers you’re speaking of that I know don’t have a problem with vista.

      • PeterD
      • 10 years ago

      At least there is one positive element about the pricings: the amount of versions is much simpler than it was with Vista. Now it is possible to make a choice you feel comfortable with.

      • damtachoa
      • 10 years ago

      with that price, now I know why people pirate os.

      • FubbHead
      • 10 years ago

      From their FAQ…

      “Q: If I purchased a qualifying Windows Vista product in one language version, can I get a different language version for the upgrade? For example, if my PC came with a French version of Windows Vista Home Premium can I get the upgrade as Spanish Windows 7 Home Premium?”

      “A: The Windows 7 Upgrade Option program does not allow for language switching. The language version of the Windows Vista product that you ordered will be the language version of the Windows 7 product you will receive.”

      That is so cheap, you can’t even chose which language you want to use. It’s 2009, there really should be MUI support across the board already. If you start screwing people over like this, you could at least give people that much freedom, and then some.

      But hey, go ahead, minigun yourselves in the foot for all I care. Either way, not one cent will leave my wallet to pay for this product. And if that leaves me without it, so be it.

      • cygnus1
      • 10 years ago

      honestly, i plan on buying a technet plus subscription when Win 7 is released. it’s cheaper than 2 copies of win7 and that’ll get me server 08 R2 as well.

        • DrDillyBar
        • 10 years ago

        <3 that idea.

        • TechNut
        • 10 years ago

        That’s what I’ve been doing for many years now.. I think it’s the best way to get software for home “IT-pro” use. I had the Vista SP2 bits on Technet very shortly after it came out. Definiately worth the money.

          • Kougar
          • 10 years ago

          I’m not as sure… even the most recent promo is $250 for a one year subscription. Since Windows 7 is the only OS I’d need I could pick up two copies of Home Premium Upgrade and still save over half.

          That is, unless you know something…? I know they had a student discount promotion for $99 that got me hooked the first time… but $250 is more than I’d spend on Windows licenses in one year and I’m not sure they’ll offer anything better as a promotion.

        • sluggo
        • 10 years ago

        If I sign up for TN but do not renew after one year, does the evaluation period effectively “end”? Or will the evaluation software continue to function and be supported through normal means?

          • moose17145
          • 10 years ago

          Would also like to know the answer to this question.

          • Erazor GTX
          • 10 years ago

          I also wanted to know the answer to this question. It seems that some people in the forums in Anandtech say that the keys generated are still usable after your technet subscription expires. I couldn’t find an “official” answer from Microsoft, though.

          Here’s the link to the thread where I found the info: §[<http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=40&threadid=2306732<]§

          • Kougar
          • 10 years ago

          Product keys obtained through Microsoft Technet are normal, fully licensed keys that will continue to work (up until you reach the install limit for that key) even if you do not renew your Technet Subscription.

        • jpostel
        • 10 years ago

        I’ve had either a Technet or MSDN subscription for the last 10+ years. Very good investment if you want to climb the ladder in the MS side of the IT world.

      • jstern
      • 10 years ago

      Wasn’t XP Home (Full) $200 when it 1st came out back in 2001? If so, why are so many complaining about the price? I’m sure that $200 was worth a lot more than $200 now.

        • NeXus 6
        • 10 years ago

        Partly because of the economy, and partly because Win7 isn’t much of an upgrade over Vista. You’re not getting much in return for your money, which is why they should have priced it a bit lower. Win7 is really just an attempt by Microsoft to try and get back what they lost on Vista.

          • PeterD
          • 10 years ago

          mmmm… good point

        • bdwilcox
        • 10 years ago

        Uh, because in 2001, basic computers cost about $1000 and at $200 Windows cost 20% of the physical hardware. Now that basic computers cost about $400, the price for Windows is still the same, making Windows 50% of the cost of the hardware. But unlike 2001, Apple isn’t on life support anymore and Linux is not only usable but actually robust. Microsoft still acts like Windows lacks viable competitors and computers haven’t gotten cheaper. Arrogance or myopia, the end result is still the same.

          • derFunkenstein
          • 10 years ago

          No, in 2001 you could build a basic Duron or Celeron computer for well under $1000, in fact you could go below $600 easily. Not much different than today.

            • PeterD
            • 10 years ago

            Might be true, but if you wanted a decent system you paid more.
            Basic systems weren’t very powerfull in those days.
            My system back in 2001 costed about 3000 USD’s in those days. It had two screens, though.

              • jss21382
              • 10 years ago

              uhm…I’ve gamed on $500 systems since about 2000, things cost the same as they always have.

          • PeterD
          • 10 years ago

          Well, you can’t say that MS is mistaken about not having viable competitors.

          2007-2008 was a disaster for Vista. It only started to run well after lots of new pc’s came on the market.
          Actually, I think that if MS would have been a bit more clever, and would have waited a year longer to bring Vista on the market, the picture would have been completely different: a year later pc’s would have been better suited for Vista, and MS would have had time to improve Vista. They would have killed two birds with one stone.
          But there was pressure from part of the market, namely the businesses who had paid for maintenance service when XP came on the market, and who were promised the upgrade to Vista would have been part of the maintenance contract 3 years later. When Vista did’nt show up, those people found themselves being ripped of..So, MS was more or less in a hurry to bring Vista on the market.
          (or maybe MS brought it on the market too soon, to use the earlier adapter as a guinea pig)

          But there is more to the Vista-disaster: instead of turning to Apple and Linux, only Apple saw it’s market share rise substantialy. Linux not.
          Worse: in 2008 people got the habbit of paying DOUBLE for Windows, by buying machines with Vista installed, and demanding for a downgrade to XP.
          Two things have to be noted about those downgrades:
          – those costumers did pay for Vista, not only for XP, as some might think
          – those costumers did not pay for XP Home Edition, because only XP Pro was available.
          So, the consumer at that time choose the most expensive solution! They bought TWO OS’s instead of one, and one of the two was the most expensive version on the market (Pro instead of Home).
          From 2007-2008 MS’s turnover rose from 14 billion USD to 17 billion USD.

          Is that the reason MS prolonged XP Pro’s availability till 2011? Because they know it might give them extra double sales?
          Has the consumer’s reaction shown that Windows is unavoidable at the moment and that there are no real competitors?
          Is that why MS is so brutal to make it difficult for the Europeans to buy an upgrade, in hoping the Europeans would behave as baboons and turn themselves on their own (elected!) gouvernements as if MS is trying to topple over the gouvernment of some banana republic in some kind of paranoid CIA-spy-story style?

          And finally, doesn’t this proove that the EU and other gouverning bodies are right when they try to do something about MS’s monopoly? That they are right that the consumer is becoming (and in fact already IS) the victim of MS’s monopoly and policy?

      • mario23
      • 10 years ago

      How many licenses per upgrade this time?
      I have a desktop and three laptops to take care of.
      tks

      • mario23
      • 10 years ago

      I think I’d prefer a clean install and start over this time instead of upgrading again…

        • [+Duracell-]
        • 10 years ago

        An upgrade from Vista to 7 is relatively painless, actually. I did that with the RC and all it took was a few clicks, wait ~1-2 hours, and entering the CD key and everything was ready to go.

        All my settings carried over, even default programs and such. Nothing was broken as far as I could tell, either.

        I’m looking forward to preordering mine tomorrow 🙂

          • shank15217
          • 10 years ago

          It took 2 hours to put in a new desktop ui and change the wall papers yay!

        • indeego
        • 10 years ago

        Quite the minor disaster at work upgrading. Followed the MS guides to a T. The uninstall/reinstall requirements were many hours even with scripting. It was completely not worth even the testing effort versus profile migration. (Yeah I know this may seem obvious since the history of upgrades has been bad, I thought we’d give it a shot since MS actually sent us a lot of documentation saying it should go smoothlyg{<.<}g)

      • Coran Fixx
      • 10 years ago

      I’ll be looking for a conference where I can be a super microsoft ho for a day and get the os for free.

      Microsoft would charge $400 if they thought they would find buyers. Those of you crying economies of scale need to go back to community college.

      • ClickClick5
      • 10 years ago

      Well let me just pull that -[<$200<]- $400 out of my -[

        • sreams
        • 10 years ago

        To be fair… Apple’s been charging a lot more than $29 for their “service packs” up to now. Service packs for XP and Vista have been free. It’s about time Microsoft charged for one.

      • potatochobit
      • 10 years ago

      will Home Premium or Professional have Japanese Unicode support?
      I remember something about vista home not having proper language pack support and that was the main reason I never got around to buying it.

      I want to get ultimate but 320$ is a tad bit to swallow considering I will be getting a directX11 card around that same time frame.
      preorder discount would be a definite seller for me.

        • A_Pickle
        • 10 years ago

        Seriously, it’s BS like that that is weaning me from Microsoft faster than I ever thought possible. There is no technical reason preventing Home Premium and uh, EVERY OTHER VERSION OF WINDOWS being able to go from language to language, directly in the OS… but no. You either live in and buy the OS in the home country, or you buy Ultimate at $319.99, thank-you-very-much.

        If it weren’t for the fact that Linux positively blows chunks at content creation (3D animation + video editing != Linux).

        This is why I’m getting a Palm Pre. Microsoft, your gravestone is already being carved, and when it gets mashed into the ground six feet above the mutilated, horrible corpse of a company that used to be competent and full of talent, I will laugh – because they will have only themselves to blame.

        I believe I was listening to TWiT when someone made the point that Microsoft will never shift business models because there is less money in the new way of doing things as compared to the old way of doing things… and because of that, they are desperate to keep the old way of doing things the main way of doing things.

          • FubbHead
          • 10 years ago

          Yeah, well, they can take it with them in their demise.

      • Kurkotain
      • 10 years ago

      profit

      damn 10 caracter limit…

        • no51
        • 10 years ago

        haha

      • snakeoil
      • 10 years ago

      maybe its better to wait for windows 9

        • A_Pickle
        • 10 years ago

        Or, it’s time to quit making fun of Linux, and start really helping that community build an open-source OS the likes of which the world has never seen.

        As much as it pains me to say, adisor19 has an excellent point as far as OS pricing goes. Snow Leopard will go to Mac users for all of $29.99. Windows 7 Ultimate is TEN TIMES THAT PRICE. Even at OEM costs, it’s not going to be under $179.99.

        I’m sorry, but I’m really tired of paying Microsoft ridiculous prices for them to fix stupid problems that shouldn’t have existed in the first place. Their software is crummy compared to many free alternatives in the world (other than Office, which I only use because it’s the industry standard). I’m tired of this game.

        That said, what Microsoft does to it’s own software, Apple does with it’s hardware so… before you read this and jump for glee, adisor, remember that my friend’s four-year-old Dell Inspiron 9300 (with a Pentium M and a Geforce Go 6800) has a card reader AND a PCMCIA slot, gobs of USB ports, firewire, VGA and DVI, S/PDIF and a 1920×1200 display. MacBook Pro’s have had card readers for a month now, at the expense of an add-on card slot…

      • PRIME1
      • 10 years ago

      How much?!?!?!?

      Good thing they are extending XP into 2011

        • Krogoth
        • 10 years ago

        That is only for extended support.

        Mainstream support for XP is already over a.k.a no more service packs and hotfixes for non-security problems.

      • Krogoth
      • 10 years ago

      Too bad that MS does not provide a special Vista to 7 upgrade deal.

      Besides, Home Premium edition is more than sufficient for most users. You can get around the lack of remote desktop with freeware solutions. A non-server and non-heavy duty workstation does not need multi-CPU socket support. A home network never needs to organize as a domain. Assuming Home Premium x64 carries the same limit as its Vista counterpart. 16GiB is still plenty of memory for non-professional users. You only lose a few cheap gimmicks that only come with Ultimate edition.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 10 years ago

      I’ll purchase windows7, but if it isn’t a tremendous improvement over vista, this will be the last Windows I ever buy.

      Mandriva powerpack will probably be what I replace windows with.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 10 years ago

        what about your l33t g4m1ng?

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 10 years ago

          Cedega/Wine.
          Dual booting with XP64, for <=dx9.
          That and real PC games are becoming extinct, so microsoft will not have a monopoly on that for long.

            • Meadows
            • 10 years ago

            Leet gamers always use the latest DirectX.
            You will have to find a new name then. Something like “budg3t-g4/\/\er” or “hypocritical strike” or something like that.

              • ludi
              • 10 years ago

              Hypocritical /[

              • Meadows
              • 10 years ago

              Strike!

              • ludi
              • 10 years ago

              …/[

              • l33t-g4m3r
              • 10 years ago

              Meadows, you are the biggest troll to ever troll.
              (at this point in time, on this website.)
              Good job! If there was an award for trolling, I’d give it to you.
              Edit: There just might be!
              It’s the enlightenment of knowing anything you ever say is irrelevant.
              :p
              Your constant thread crapping nearly makes me miss porkster.
              (Ironically, his opinions would actually make sense now.)

              • Swollen_Goat
              • 10 years ago

              haha ,I added meadows to my ignore list a long time ago.
              Back on topic, good pricing for Home premium upgrade IMO.

              • Meadows
              • 10 years ago

              That was because he (swollen goat) lost yet another argument on grounds of not even being able to read. Others reinforced my point at the time, too.

              Move on.

      • swiecki
      • 10 years ago

      This is actually pretty sweet. Much better than paying $29 to apple for a patch with some optimizations and bug fixes.

        • indeego
        • 10 years ago

        You probably aren’t trying to sound as amusing as you actually are coming across asg{<.<}g

        • Scrotos
        • 10 years ago

        I applaud you! It’s offhanded enough in tonality that people wouldn’t initially see that as a flamebait post! No, really, you crafted it well!

        • DaveJB
        • 10 years ago

        Of course – $119 is a much better deal for some bug fixes, optimizations and a new task bar!

          • Scrotos
          • 10 years ago

          Oh. Now, see, you fell for it.

      • FubbHead
      • 10 years ago

      I wonder what they’ll gauge me for an half-year old Home Premium. Not that I care too much, got MSDN AA access for another year, but those licenses comes with a bunch of strings attached.

      • flip-mode
      • 10 years ago

      Flock you MS.

      There should only be one retail version, Windows 7, and is should not cost more than $100.

        • swiecki
        • 10 years ago

        You should make a better OS and charge less for it. See how ridiculous that sounds?

          • Scrotos
          • 10 years ago

          “better” is too subjective. Besides OS X, how about any flavor of Linux? ReactOS? Haiku? They are a bit cheaper as well. See how it feels now, Mr. Meanie?!?

            • PeterD
            • 10 years ago

            Ubuntu.
            Very popular at the moment, which means there are lots of people who can give you advice.

          • flip-mode
          • 10 years ago

          Do you know what ‘economies of scale’ are? MS is sitting on 40 billion dollars. They’re not hurting for profits. If OSX was the dominant OS, you can bet MS would be undercutting it’s price.

      • Umbragen
      • 10 years ago

      50 bucks? Hell yeah, that’s a fair price for an upgrade.

        • Umbragen
        • 10 years ago

        Order placed, with tax and shipping the total is still less than $60. If MS is going to offer a fair price for an upgrade I’d suggest taking advantage of it. They might realize how badly they’ve screwed up their pricing structure.

      • FireGryphon
      • 10 years ago

      Wow, you guys are whiney. Microsoft is charging what they consider market value for their OS. If it’s too expensive, don’t buy it. What’s the big deal?

        • Scrotos
        • 10 years ago

        Because people were actually looking forward to a Microsoft OS for maybe the first time in a decade, and the pricing is very disappointing to them as it’s priced out of reach.

        If there’s anything else you’re not quite understanding, feel free to post again and I’m sure someone will clarify for you.

        • BailoutBenny
        • 10 years ago

        Because nerds like to complain when their allowance isn’t enough.

        • NeXus 6
        • 10 years ago

        I think most people were looking for a deal because of the poor economy. The option now for many will be to not upgrade or pirate Win7. There won’t be much choice if your wallet is empty.

        • PeterD
        • 10 years ago

        Because people expected MS to do something to make up for the bad experience with Vista.

          • logan666
          • 10 years ago

          I agree that MS owes its customers something for the terrible Vista problems many users experienced. It took over 6 years to go from XP to Vista but look how long to go from Vista to Win7. Win 7 is more like a completed Vista and I’ve been using the RC for a month now and love it. Since MS knows what Apple will charge for their OS upgrade, the smart thing to do would have been to make Win7 cheap in order to recoup their losses on Vista and build good will and confidence in the market.

            • no51
            • 10 years ago

            My ‘terrible’ Vista problems were caused by Creative and Nvidia, but I won’t be holding my breath hoping for some kind of reparation from either of them.

            • ludi
            • 10 years ago

            This line of argument presumes that Microsoft could obtain goodwill with a money fairy, which even then is somewhat doubtful, let alone a reduced sales price structure on one of their two primary product sectors. Vista gets its service packs and support life, and anything developed or updated for Windows 7 can easily include competent Vista support since the platforms are so similar. What more do people want that Microsoft, as a for-profit software developer, can reasonably provide?

              • TO11MTM
              • 10 years ago

              What they could offer is a discounted Vista-to-7 upgrade. From what this shows you’re paying the same amount for an upgrade whether you were already dumb enough to upgrade from XP to Vista…. And I think that’s how a lot of us feel; if we could have only paid for a windows 7 upgrade, knowing how much of a pile windows Vista started out as, (And the fact it was FORCED upon horribly equipped new laptops in the beginning) then I think we’d not be so upset.

              (My experience with Vista started very unhappy. My wife’s laptop had Vista on it and even though we did a clean install, (As is my standard practice when bloatware is on a laptop,) it was a bucket of fail until SP1 came out and we did a complete fresh install with SP1. Just upgrading the standard install didn’t seem to work right.

              That said, Our ASUS laptops came with Vista preinstalled and we had no problems with either, so yeah, eventually it got better. )

              • SPOOFE
              • 10 years ago

              /[

              • TO11MTM
              • 10 years ago

              I consider it forced when a laptop manufacturer refuses to provide windows XP drivers for hardware, and 3rd party drivers cause the system to have horrible stability issues in XP (i.e. crashing randomly at the desktop with no software running yet.)

              You’re trying to overdramatize my wording, and I have no clue why but it really didnt have a point. Please return to go and try again.

              • jss21382
              • 10 years ago

              sounds like you should be complaining to the manufacturer of the laptop, not microsoft.

              • TO11MTM
              • 10 years ago

              I did, with little results. And wound up voting with my dollars, between the vista issues, the lack of XP driver support, and the bloatware that was on the machine in the first place (Nothing quite as amusing as a system with less than 50 free megs of ram ON BOOT,) I decided against Toshiba for our next laptop purchases. Went with some nice and bloatware-free ASUS units with XP drivers available if need be, thankfully by that time Vista was better anyway.

              Microsoft has done a lot to improve their image in this whole vista fiasco but, at the time, problems like these (Lack of XP drivers for certain, especially less expensive store-bought laptops) were rather commonplace. And I -do- feel that Vista was pushed on them, because I don’t think any OEM in their right mind would spec a Vista laptop with 512MB of memory, unless Microsoft one way or another manipulated pricing to cause Vista to be cheaper than XP Home.

              (Disclaimer, if asked: The laptop -did- only come with 512mb of memory but we immediately added another GB to it… the 50 megs free was with the stock 512MB as I was curious how it would have run before I threw the ram in.)

              • SPOOFE
              • 10 years ago

              /[

              • TO11MTM
              • 10 years ago

              At the time, low end laptops wouldn’t have XP drivers for certain bits of hardware, and it’s a crapshoot to say whether one’s post on a forum saying “X Y Z drivers worked for me!” is true or he really is just used to an unstable-as-heck system.

              As for my “Drama queen hyperbole,” there’s different types of forced. You’re forced to provide collateral on a loan. You may be forced out of a movie theater if you stay too long. You may be, indeed, forced to give all your posessions inside your home by gunpoint. I’d assume in a room full of adults that you’d know since the context was computers I was referring to something in between my first two examples in this paragraph of ‘forced.’

              But after reading your other posts on this page, I’m pretty sure you just somehow get off on being a veiled troll. Have a nice day!

          • SPOOFE
          • 10 years ago

          So people have stupid expectations. Microsoft owes nothing to customers; it only owes something to its shareholders.

            • TO11MTM
            • 10 years ago

            Since you tried to troll my comment I’ll troll yours.

            Corporations technically have a duty to serve the interests of the public. it’s almost never happened but a government can choose to dissolve a corporation and divest it’s assets if it is determined that the corporation is clearly not serving the public interest.

            Also, assuming a company only has a duty to it’s shareholders and not it’s customers is along the same lines of greedy thinking that helped get our financial system into the mess it’s in.

              • SPOOFE
              • 10 years ago

              Your entire post is just plain ludicrously wrong.

              • TO11MTM
              • 10 years ago

              Please point out how.

              P.S. Thanks for leaving out a veiled Ad-hominem attack in this one!

              • danny e.
              • 10 years ago

              the mess we’re in was caused my liberal communistic thought.. not greed.
              when congress passes laws to ensure the people who can’t afford to homes buy homes.. then it causes issues.

              do not attempt to re-write history.

        • torquer
        • 10 years ago

        Because people will bitch no matter what. The same people whining at this price will STILL whine when they see that they’re offering the upgrades for less than half price right now.

        Microsoft could give it away for FREE and they’d still whine and complain. Microsoft could give it away for free with a $50 bill and they’d complain it wasn’t $100.

        You’ll never satisfy the pathologically discontent, and unfortunately thats about 80% of the people who post comments about anything on the Internet.

          • PeterD
          • 10 years ago

          No, that’s not true.
          You’re writing fanboy-remarks.

          • Saribro
          • 10 years ago

          It’s the same people who complain anything Microsoft is horrible and whatnot, but don’t wan’t to buy a Mac or use Linux, because it’s not Windows.
          Some people are just alive in order to complain :).

      • thermistor
      • 10 years ago

      Getting ‘all the new features’ is decidedly 1990’s.

      Win95 was finally a consumer GUI OS for the masses. Win98 brought full support for AGP (I believe…correct me if I’m wrong) and USB. Think about how useful USB is, cameras, Garmins, etc. all use the bus. Think about gaming…would we recognize it in its present form if everyone had settled for PCI instead of AGP? Arguably, XP brought the masses a stable, business-class OS. The environment was right, based on the foul stench in retail that was WinME.

      The only real advantage I see is for Microsoft, being able to offer 1 OS for everything from MID’s, netbooks, up to workstations…something that is an XP/Vista patchwork right now.

      The upgrade trend for 7, despite the enthusiasm, will look glaringly similar to Vista. $100-200 buys me a whole lot of hardware sweetness; if I want to play around with a ‘new’ OS, I’ll just download linux for free.

        • PeterD
        • 10 years ago

        thermistor wrote “Getting ‘all the new features’ is decidedly 1990’s.”

        You’re wright. That’s also the underlying current which feeds to ongoing attacks on Vista.
        Vista (and 7) only are some kind of embellishment, but don’t offer real benefits anymore.
        I remember the days when it was interesting to buy a new pc EVERY YEAR, because the relative progress in those times was enormous, although the nominal progress was meager in comparison with current figures.

      • SomeOtherGeek
      • 10 years ago

      Umm, Interesting comments. Go commentators, go!

      Anyway, this is a little off topic, but I thought that if I was MS by the EU, they should be mad enough to charge Europeans double? No? Half the price? I think I’ll buy the European version – is UK part of Europe? Just a thought.

        • Meadows
        • 10 years ago

        I wager it is.

          • SomeOtherGeek
          • 10 years ago

          In that case, I’ll send you the money and you can buy one for me, yes??

            • Meadows
            • 10 years ago

            Go ahead and send me all the money you like, but see if I comply. 😉

              • SomeOtherGeek
              • 10 years ago

              Damn, I was hoping….

      • Grigory
      • 10 years ago

      Every single time a new version comes out the same whining and the earth keeps on turning.

        • indeego
        • 10 years ago

        TR lubs dem the vista/XP articles. they seem to keep the eyeballs on the front page/chatty threadsg{<.<}g

      • barich
      • 10 years ago

      These prices are virtually irrelevant. Very few people will buy Windows 7 at retail.

      Most people will simply get it with their new PC. And people who build their own PCs will buy OEM copies.

      Also, I could purchase Windows 7 Ultimate full version at retail plus the ThinkPad that I just bought, and together they would still cost less than Apple’s cheapest MacBook.

        • Scrotos
        • 10 years ago

        I was actually thinking about getting 3 copies of Win7. One to replace my Vista machine, one for Bootcamp or Parallels or something on my Macbook, and one for the wife’s XP install (she originally had Vista and hated it so much I had to throw XP on there).

        But after seeing those prices, fuck that. I got a Dell Mini9 to play around with and maybe install OS X onto. What with the family pack upgrade price of Snow Leopard being so relatively cheap, it’ll probably turn out that the Win7 pricing drives me to end up with 0 Win7 machines and an additional OS X machine. Which is sad really because I was kinda looking forward to Win7.

      • DrDillyBar
      • 10 years ago

      Ultimate Retail for me! At least it’s gonig to be ~$120 cheaper then it was for Vista.

      • snakeoil
      • 10 years ago

      like dope dealers microsoft is giving you a free windows 7 ride.
      and when you can’t escape they will do as they please.
      why to downgrade to windows 7 if xp 64 is faster? better use the money to buy a radeon 4770 (80 dollars) plus a phenom x2 550 and unlock the extra cores so you have a quadcore (100 bucks), and a burger with fries and still have 5 dollars left.

        • no51
        • 10 years ago

        0/10, try again.

        • swaaye
        • 10 years ago

        Yeah that’s exactly how I see the Win7 RC test. Free ride to get people hooked.

        I’m still not really seeing how it’s way superior to Vista, honestly. Or XP for that matter. It has some semi-interesting UI changes and it’s a bit smaller in disk space, but really now.

        • Meadows
        • 10 years ago

        You would probably /[

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 10 years ago

          You’re the bag.
          XP64 is a leaps and bounds above vista.
          It just doesn’t have dx10, and RDF fanboy’s.

          description edit for Mr. anal retentive grammar Nazi. (#74)
          Do you honestly think I meant a literal billion?
          I think meadows’ disease is catching.

            • Meadows
            • 10 years ago

            Hi stupid, I know you’re a regular troll and all, but you should polish your reading skills one of these days.

            We were /[

              • swaaye
              • 10 years ago

              What about XP x64 is non-functional? Why is it inferior? What is tangibly superior about NT6 and how much of that is subjective?

              • Meadows
              • 10 years ago

              I didn’t say anything would be non-functional, except perhaps some esoteric hardware devices.

              Driver and software support leave something to be desired, and let’s face it, XP 64 is a dead operating system so nobody is expecting support to improve now. Excuse the weasel words, but /[

            • MadManOriginal
            • 10 years ago

            You’re both morons for overstating your position. XP-x64 is not a steaming pile of excrement, it’s just not a very smart option mainly due to lack of support although it got better a while after its release (hm, sound familiar?) however it’s also not a billion times better than anything.

      • Arxor
      • 10 years ago

      Looks like the 50% off pre-order offer only applies to Upgrade versions of Home Premium and Professional.

      Leaving full retail and potential Ultimate buyers out in the cold…

      • Vasilyfav
      • 10 years ago

      I can’t wait to redeem my student torrent discount for the purchase of Windows 7. Can’t beat 100% discount.

        • Jakubgt
        • 10 years ago

        TBP ftw. Gotta love being a poor student.

          • Usacomp2k3
          • 10 years ago

          Being poor gives you justification to steal? I don’t quite understand.

            • NeXus 6
            • 10 years ago

            Who said you need justification? It’s a moral decision.

              • Usacomp2k3
              • 10 years ago

              Moral corruption requires justification to appease the conscience

          • lycium
          • 10 years ago

          “the bay pirate”? poor /[

        • Meadows
        • 10 years ago

        I was wondering when you’d pop up with your scheduled, turd-spirited “let’s torrent it!” comment.

          • lycium
          • 10 years ago

          you’re pretty infamous yourself 😛

            • Meadows
            • 10 years ago

            Well, at least I’ve been here for longer than 8 months and 60% of my comments were not made to advertise piracy.

        • lycium
        • 10 years ago

        will you buy it when you’re earning a wage?

      • pikaporeon
      • 10 years ago

      now if only there was a discount if you’re say, upgrading vista ultimate to 7 Home Premium

      • derFunkenstein
      • 10 years ago

      TR commenters are about the only group I can think of that can spin price reductions from Vista into price increases.

      • ryko
      • 10 years ago

      way to go microsoft…you have just ensured that XP will never die now with this inflated pricing on win7. either that or win7 will become the most pirated OS ever!

      seriously, they really must be unaware of current economic conditions or they just don’t care…the pricing should be more like this for the full versions…

      home $79
      pro $129
      ultimate $179

      and they really jacked up the difference between home and pro this time too b/c they know we all want the pro version with vXP. $100 extra bucks for this? no thanks, i would rather buy a complete copy of XP for that $100 and double boot.

        • Meadows
        • 10 years ago

        Last I checked, Apple were far more daring with their prices and “this economy” is still throwing money at them as if nothing ever happened.

          • adisor19
          • 10 years ago

          You need to check again. Apple is charging 30$ for Snow Leopard upgrade, not 220$ like MS.

          Adi

            • Meadows
            • 10 years ago

            Generally speaking, not just software-wise. Everyone knows their margins are criminal and they still turn a profit as if nothing happened.

              • adisor19
              • 10 years ago

              Awwww, really. So the software somehow doesn’t matter, eh ? Well then, go pay your overinflated MS tax cause apparently that that’s really matter since everyone knows MS generally doesn’t price gouge for their software. * rolls eyes*

              Adi

          • Hattig
          • 10 years ago

          Yup paying $29 for a rough equivalent to Win7 (in terms of new features over Vista, and development time since previous release) is a real pain. $49 for a family/5-seat upgrade. PAIN, PAIN for Apple users.

          Of course Win7 is meant to also run on pre-2006 hardware …
          and the pre-order pricing isn’t too bad.

        • Kurotetsu
        • 10 years ago

        Those could very well be the prices for the OEM releases. The full retail versions have always been stupid expensive compared to the system builder discs.

        I mean, I realize everyone keeps bringing up the possibility of not being able to reinstall with the OEM disc. I’ve never run into this from as far back as XP SP2, and I don’t see any compelling reason why Microsoft will SUDDENLY change its handling of that now.

          • NeXus 6
          • 10 years ago

          Yep. They gouge the suckers that buy retail versions.

        • Nitrodist
        • 10 years ago

        Those prices are probably what they’re going to be. For the OEM versions. Vista & XP pricing has always been that high for retail.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 10 years ago

        I hardly think ‘we all’ want vXP. If it does matter to you that much you ought to already have a favorite virtualization software, or at least you can choose a separate one when you use Win 7.

      • SonicSilicon
      • 10 years ago

      You’ll want to correct the Upgrade Offer link.
      §[<http://www.microsoft.com/windows/buy/offers/upgrade.aspx<]§ The text for the link in the blog doesn't match the URL it leads to.

      • StuG
      • 10 years ago

      Hopefully the upgrade >> full install work around still works ;D

        • alex666
        • 10 years ago

        I was wondering the same thing. Probably not, though, I’m sure MS will correct it this time around.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 10 years ago

        I really hope so too. I got my upgrade Vista for <$75 including $10 to MS for 64-bit media, and it ultimately installs like a retail edition. I hope but am not overly optimistic it will possible with Win 7, MS had a chance to correct the upgrade reinstall bug, either through an update or rolled in to SP on new media, for ages with Vista and never did.

      • pogsnet
      • 10 years ago
      • bdwilcox
      • 10 years ago

      Obviously, Microsoft still hasn’t learned the economies of scale. With hardware prices taking a tumble (think $200 to build a perfectly decent box) who’s going to spend $200-300 on a piece of software? When someone drops $200 on a tangible, dropping another $200-300 on vapor is a little hard to swallow. Microsoft may be still making a decent profit now, but come $100 hardware, a wake up call will be in order or Microsoft may see itself made obsolete. Once again, Microsoft’s biggest competitor is its own arrogance.

      BTW, at least when Apple gouges their foolish and willing zealots they gouge them through the entire scale from hardware to software, making the inflated prices of their OS and subsequent service packs seem reasonable compared to their overtly inflated hardware prices.

        • adisor19
        • 10 years ago

        Wait.. WHAT ?!

        So let me get this straight, MS decides to keep the prices sky high for their -[

          • no51
          • 10 years ago

          BMW is doing free oil changes! You have to get a BMW first though.

            • adisor19
            • 10 years ago

            I’m sorry, can you install Win 7 upgrade without first purchasing Vista ?
            How is this any different than what MS is doing besides the HUGE $$ difference ?

            Adi

              • no51
              • 10 years ago

              l[

              • Scrotos
              • 10 years ago

              If you own XP, maybe?

              • SomeOtherGeek
              • 10 years ago

              Or W2K?

              • MadManOriginal
              • 10 years ago

              With Vista you can install it as a ‘trial version’ with no product key. You then do an inplace upgrade from within the OS and enter the product key. Oila, a retail install of Vista from the upgrade version, no additional OS or license needed.

          • SPOOFE
          • 10 years ago

          If Apple sold nothing but operating system upgrades, you’d have a point.

            • adisor19
            • 10 years ago

            Hold on a second, so my argument is not good cause Apple also sells their OS retail ?! WOW you guys are really sad.

            OK so let’s take SL retail price and compare it to Win 7 retail price : 120$ compared to 312$ ! Notice a difference ?

            Also, buy an Apple and the OS is FREE compared to the OEM fee that your PC maker gives to MS and that it adds to the cost of the PC.

            Adi

              • barich
              • 10 years ago

              r[

              • Scrotos
              • 10 years ago

              I think Apple makes most of its margins on hardware sales, not OS sales. Application sales would probably be a different boat.

              But I wouldn’t be surprised if the bundled software is “free” in Apple’s accounting purposes.

              • derFunkenstein
              • 10 years ago

              dude, you’re not making sense – Apple still charges for hte OS on the computer to pay for R&D.

              • ludi
              • 10 years ago

              Punctuate Different.

              • SPOOFE
              • 10 years ago

              /[

              • adisor19
              • 10 years ago

              I think you missed the part where Apple usually sells their OS for 120$ a pop. Now, for this occasion where they openly admitted that SL is refined and enhanced Leopard, kinda like what 7 is to Vista, they’re only charging users 30$ for the upgrade.

              It’s nice to see MS not giving a damn about all the uses they abused with Vista and now trying to add more insult to the injury, they’re charging 220$ for the 7 upgrade.

              Just sayin’.

              Adi

              • Meadows
              • 10 years ago

              I think you missed the part where Apple can do it because of their sacrilegous hardware margins, whereas Microsoft is nearly exclusively a software company. Apple can afford letting go of 100 dollars per OS sale when they still get 300 dollars after each of their PCs sold.

              Microsoft doesn’t have that luxury. Granted, they’re not so pushed to reduce prices either, since they remain the leaders either way.

              • Scrotos
              • 10 years ago

              Really? I thought MS sold very little retail OS and made most of its money with volume OEM sales. That would mean retail pricing would have little effect on their bottom line. Plus they get HUGE money from their Office products. They can’t afford… what, now?

              §[<http://www.marketingvox.com/microsoft-shares-fall-4-after-fiscal-year-earnings-report-039934/<]§ Too lazy to really look for breakdowns and stuff, but their main loss comes from online and entertainment (xbox360 writeoff probably didn't help) and stuff like Business Division (office and related products) and Client (windows consumer os, I believe) are making them bank. And when you consider that a large (more than 80%) number of the Client dollars don't even come from retail sales, I think there's more than enough wiggle room. Though maybe MS is keeping the price high so they don't get accused of undercutting Apple and trying to be monopolistic or something. I could actually see that as a reasoning behind the high prices.

              • SPOOFE
              • 10 years ago

              /[

              • SPOOFE
              • 10 years ago

              /[

          • pfunkallstar
          • 10 years ago

          dude apple is the most money grubbing company around, they just have clever marketing

            • adisor19
            • 10 years ago

            Oh so charging 30$ instead of 120$ (full pop for OS X) is called “clever marketing” these days ?!

            I don’t get, all of you defend MS with this move and are cool about paying an exorbitant price for what is essentially Vista SP3 with a prettied up UI.

            Adi

              • bimmerlovere39
              • 10 years ago

              Well, arguably, all of Apple’s OSes are updates…

              • Usacomp2k3
              • 10 years ago

              Except OSX. That was a big step over OS9

              • derFunkenstein
              • 10 years ago

              Kinda like Win98 was an update to Win95. Both were Windows version 4.x

              Or 2k to XP was version 5 to version 5.1

              Or Vista to Win 7 is 6.0 to 6.1

              • Scrotos
              • 10 years ago

              Windows 3.0, 3.1, 3.11 (or was 3.11 only Windows for Workgroups?)

              Win95, Win95SP1/OSR1, Win95b/OSR2, Win95OSR2.1, Win95OSR2.5, Win98, Win98SE, WinME

              Lots of iterations there and I think full price retail with upgrade pricing also available.

              Just adding some more on. I don’t remember the DOS days in retail enough to know if 6.0, 6.2, 6.22 were all separate products. I think there were upgrade packages available, but in those days it’s not like you had digital distribution of anything, either.

              • derFunkenstein
              • 10 years ago

              Thank you. The FUD of “it’s just a service pack you pay for” nonsense is flamebait and not even close to the truth.

              • DrDillyBar
              • 10 years ago

              It was just Win95 A, B, C from my perspetive. DUN updates extra. All free really.
              DOS 6.22 cost me 10 bucks.

        • ludi
        • 10 years ago

        Retail box price, homey. Microsoft has priced ’em like this for quite a while and only suckers pay it. It just gives the company a fat baseline from which to tier out the price ladder on the various single and bulk OEM license rates.

          • StashTheVampede
          • 10 years ago

          Retail box license is also very different than OEM — you can switch the computer it runs on.

      • wiak
      • 10 years ago

      OEM pricing :wub:

      • glacius555
      • 10 years ago

      Err, I presume Micro$oft sets the price of my “used” Vista at 100$, judging from price differences between upgrades and full versions? I’d feel somewhat upset, if XP would carry the same value as Vista today..

        • FireGryphon
        • 10 years ago

        From your mother’s basement, you stab at them?

        • BiffStroganoffsky
        • 10 years ago

        If you got Vista with a computer purchase, you paid about the same for the OS if it had been XP so no loss. If you paid retail and you got to use apps and play games that XP users have not been able to, you got your value from the difference so be happy. If you bought Vista and didn’t do anything that you couldn’t have done on XP, you should be upset at yourself because there were a lot of opinions about Vista not being worth the ‘upgrade’ price. Considering that a lot of people wouldn’t even pay $100 to upgrade to Vista from XP, it seems that Microsoft is pretty generous.

          • Umbragen
          • 10 years ago

          Yeah, take heart – Halo 2 was totally worth it!!

            • BiffStroganoffsky
            • 10 years ago

            Maybe it was to glacius. Eh, never know.

      • colinstu
      • 10 years ago

      So where’s the OEM pricing?

        • Homerr
        • 10 years ago

        Retail is for suckers, upgrades are headaches – yeah, I only care about OEM prices.

      • ssidbroadcast
      • 10 years ago

      Ah, yes. Now all those windows trolls will be eating crow.

      (/[

        • ssidbroadcast
        • 10 years ago

        Trolls: You Apple users pay $129 for a service pack ur so dumb!!LOLOLOL

          • no51
          • 10 years ago

          I’ll try: U APPEL (L)USARS HAV 2 PAY AT LEAST $599 TO USE OS10 LOLOLOLOL

          • Meadows
          • 10 years ago

          And I’m going to have to pay $120 for something decidedly more than that, so guess where the value is.
          Did I win?

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            How about a $29 upgrade price, plus the fact that what you’re buying is a castrated version?

              • Meadows
              • 10 years ago

              I’ve looked at the differences between Home Premium and Professional, and in this case, those differences will not apply to me. I refuse to pay more for things I will never use.

              Right now my recent employment history and status is critical, but I’ll reconsider just going Ultimate if I ever get any more disposable income, don’t you worry.

              Edit: this is all assuming that they fix my issues with Windows 7, because if the OS remains a pain in the ass to navigate (compared to Vista), then I simply won’t switch altogether.

        • Meadows
        • 10 years ago

        Pardon me?

      • jstern
      • 10 years ago

      Not bad, the Home Premium version.

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