Apple posts ‘most profitable quarter ever,’ record Mac sales

Recession or not, Apple seems to be having a terrific 2009. After reporting record earnings in April and its best non-holiday quarter in July, the Mac maker has followed up with its "most profitable quarter ever."

Apple recorded $9.87 billion revenue, $1.67 billion net profit, and a 36.6% gross margin for the fourth quarter of its 2009 fiscal year, which ended on September 26. Here’s how those numbers compare to past results:

  Q4FY08 Q3FY09 Q4FY09
Revenue $7.9 billion $8.34 billion $9.87 billion
Net profit $1.14 billion $1.23 billion $1.67 billion
Gross margin 34.7% 36.3% 36.6%

As usual, Apple reminds everyone that GAAP accounting rules force it to report revenue on iPhones and Apple TVs "over their estimated economic lives." Disregarding that requirement, Apple would have reported $2.85 billion net income on $12.25 billion revenue.

Despite the generally shaky economic climate (and perhaps thanks to the latest MacBook Pro price cuts), Apple saw a whopping 17% rise in Mac unit sales compared to the same quarter a year ago. iPhone unit sales rose by 7% over the same time period, but iPod unit sales went down 8%. Hey, that iPhone growth has to come from somewhere. The shipment numbers break down like so:

  Q4FY08 Q3FY09 Q4FY09
Macs 2.61 million 2.6 million 3.05 million
iPods 11.05 million 10.2 million 10.2 million
iPhones 6.89 million 5.2 million 7.4 million

Apple CEO Steve Jobs comments in the press release, "We are thrilled to have sold more Macs and iPhones than in any previous quarter. . . . We’ve got a very strong lineup for the holiday season and some really great new products in the pipeline for 2010." The company expects to see $11.3-11.6 billion revenue and $1.70-1.78 billion profit this quarter.

Comments closed
    • Fighterpilot
    • 10 years ago

    147# It would be a wonderful thing if anyone here at TR(particularly the MS/Bill haters) could be even close to how generous Bill and Melinda have been with their money and time.

    • PeterD
    • 10 years ago

    So, who said Vista wouldn’t hurt MS?
    And W7 would restore confidence?

    • anotherengineer
    • 10 years ago

    I wonder if Mr. Jobs will donate some of that money back to charity like Mr. Gates??

    still waiting…………..

      • PeterD
      • 10 years ago

      Money given to charity is tax-deductible.
      Mr. Gates hasn’t given anything.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 10 years ago

        It seems you don’t quite understand how tax deductions work and affect net income.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 10 years ago

        Yeah, there’s no Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation that gives money hand-over-fist to philanthropic causes like starving children in third-world nations.

        Seriously, I think you might be delusional.

          • PeterD
          • 10 years ago

          Seriously: if you give money to charity, you get a tax deduction.

          Anyway: lots of companies give money to charity, and in various forms.
          But as always, if Bill does something, everyone looks up.
          And he is so loaded that he can give lots too.

          I remember a priest who once told me:
          if people have seen you gave to charity, than you didn’t give any.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            you’re exhibiting the same sort of blind-rage hate for Bill Gates that some other folks here do for Apple. C’mon man – as someone told me earlier, you’re better than that.

            • anotherengineer
            • 10 years ago

            yes you can write a bit off on your taxes, up here in canada a charitable donation of 100 or more dollars gets you a box in your income tax form to write off 5 to 10% of that.

            Bill still donates lots of time and money back to the less fortunate, which is one of the reasons I don’t mind shelling out 150 bucks for the OS

            And if you were not so ignorant you would know Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are some of the top charitable donaters in the USA.

            §[<http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5115920.stm<]§ Cmon Mr. Jobs and Otenelli, step up. PeterD sounds like snakeoil, just a bitter hater.

            • PeterD
            • 10 years ago

            It’s not a matter of sounding like snakeoil.
            For starters: MS hasn’t paid much taxes, has it? They had found a trick to avoid it.
            Secondly: if Bill does something for charity, it’s all over the world in almost all newspapers and on lots of tv news broadcastings. That’s a lot of free publicity.
            Thirdly: you give the tax deductions for Canada, but that doesn’t mean it’s so low everywhere.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            it’s very much like snakeoil. You’re making some wild statements with no proof.

            • Shining Arcanine
            • 10 years ago

            The tax deduction is never anywhere near what you give. Only an idiot would donate money to charity for a tax deduction.

        • willyolio
        • 10 years ago

        oh, of course. bill gates donates billions in charity, and the government will give him 150% of his donations in tax deductions. he’s doing it for profit. obviously.

    • Rakhmaninov3
    • 10 years ago

    Cheers to a great gadget company!

    • BoBzeBuilder
    • 10 years ago

    reply fail.

    • leor
    • 10 years ago

    more heartfelt opinions from people who don’t own a particular product.

    gets the post count up though right?

      • tfp
      • 10 years ago

      no, on the front page it doesn’t

      different system than the forums, this will not boost post count.

      Though the same could be said about your post and mine as well because both of them add nothing.

    • sledgehammer
    • 10 years ago

    and one thing.

    it’s being proven that apple users are mostly gay.

    that’s why the gay community constitutes the 83% of the apple users.

    yes, that’s cool.

    §[<http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/05/steve-jobs-open-shirt.jpg<]§

      • adisor19
      • 10 years ago

      Ummm, you do realize that registering a different user-name just to bypass a ban is bound to ban you again, right ?

      Adi

        • sledgehammer
        • 10 years ago

        adi is an apple user

          • adisor19
          • 10 years ago

          Umm, ya, i’ve been using one since 2005.

          Adi

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            pfft. n00b.

            • sledgehammer
            • 10 years ago

            lol, adi is a typical apple user, not very smart.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 10 years ago

      wait, doesn’t the Church of Scientology run Apple? Does that mean it’s only for gays too?

        • Convert
        • 10 years ago

        *Gays that haven’t come out of the closet.

      • designerfx
      • 10 years ago

      I hate apple as much as anyone else who has even an ounce worth of credible computer knowledge, but apple users are not gay, any other generally insulting comment.

      They’re simply like the people who buy Dells and think they get a good deal. They don’t know better, but their choice.

        • sledgehammer
        • 10 years ago

        statistics say only 83% are.

          • Convert
          • 10 years ago

          Besides the pills, what are your sources for this information?

        • derFunkenstein
        • 10 years ago

        yeah i think you’re a bit misguided. Not as misguided as sledgehammer/snakeoil, but miguided nonetheless.

      • SomeOtherGeek
      • 10 years ago

      Of course, Apple people are gay – they are happy as hell with their Apple. That is probably the most stupidest thing I have ever heard.

    • YeuEmMaiMai
    • 10 years ago

    It never ceases to amaze me why people buy apple products, there are so many much better performing alternatives out there

    Iphone 3Gs? what a joke LG KM900 is hands down better and can actually watch DVD resolution video on the phone itself not to mention expandable storage……..

    Ipod touch? That dosen’t have anything on the mp3 players you can get in asia…..some of that stuff is just amazing………

    macbook? get a dell studio and save yourself 50% of what a 2800 mac cost with inferior HW specs

      • Decelerate
      • 10 years ago

      The mass would bet against you.

      Tech is rather Darwinian, but other people’s priorities are different from yours.

      You can want features, but many would want useability

        • kamikaziechameleon
        • 10 years ago

        usability is a little disingenuous. Any one who does more than use the CS 4 knows that apple lacks most technical apps and that ultimately Even CS 4 preforms better on PCs thanks to better hardware utilization with GPU exeleration etc. Usability meaning limited function and premium price tag. It isn’t like OSx is invulnerable every hackers conference shows it to be the least secure of the three(windows, linux, & OSx) The default web browser is a joke, I tunes is horrible, quicklime is worse. Apple suffers the same problems as Microsoft, they do what they want, not necessarily what is best for consumers.

          • Decelerate
          • 10 years ago

          I don’t use much CS4 on an ipod touch

          • derFunkenstein
          • 10 years ago

          You oughtta try this “English” thing.

          “Exeleration”? Seriously?

          When will people figure out that their arguments are undermined by their use of language? It’s more fun to laugh at this moron’s inability to form a coherent sentence. Everything in this comment screams “uninformed” because he’s making up words, failing to capitalize, and forming run-on sentences.

      • Anonymous Coward
      • 10 years ago

      It amazes me that people continue to be amazed that Apple is successful.

      It must be people like that who run the big PC makers!

      • derFunkenstein
      • 10 years ago

      The iPhone G3s has some of the fastest phone hardware you can buy. Same with the Palm Pre and a handful of other phones, but to say that the iPhone in particular is painfully slow is kind of…

      well…

      You’re a retard.

        • KoolAidMan
        • 10 years ago

        I’ve seen him post on other forums. He is quite retarded.

    • sledgehammer
    • 10 years ago

    apple user:

    you are a zombie, that’s why you pay more for apple products.

    steve jobs and the church of scientology are the owners of apple.

    yes, this is you.

    §[<http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-06/47761618.jpg<]§

    • bjm
    • 10 years ago

    You know its funny. From many of the comments posted here by some people, you would think Steve Jobs ran through their house and screwed their sister. The response from some folks on this site towards anything related to Apple is nothing more than flat out hostility. It’s almost like these folks are jealous of Apple’s success.

    In most article comments, we see the usual combatants who always disagree with each other, but for the most part there are good discussions. A lot of informative discussion takes place here and its fun to read. But throw Apple into the mix, and the nerd rage gets incredibly powerful and out of control. If only I can attach a video of Conan O’brien squeezing his nose and waving his index finger – “Us nerds will defeat you!” I mean really, just take a look at the comments in the Apple keyboard review.

    I find it disappointing that so many posters from these comments have developed such a disdain or hatred to anything Apple. Maybe its some sort of twisted xenophobia, or maybe they are a distant cousin to snakeoil and grew up in an Apple-hating household instead.There also exists a hypocrisy when one can dislike a product because of its marketing, while at the same time criticize someone else for liking a product because of it.

    Despite the fact that, yes, they are priced higher than most PCs and that, yes, they have an arrogant (and effective) marketing campaign, Apple produces many good products. Unfortunately, you can’t always measure everything in a benchmark and plot it onto a graph chart, so it may be difficult for some of you to understand. But to marginalize their success by declaring that it is only due to people wishing to look cool or that they fooled enough people to make a profit is just stupid.

    It’s comforting to know that the writers of this site aren’t infected by that same disease.

      • MadManOriginal
      • 10 years ago

      You make it sound as if there aren’t valid reasons to dislike Apple products.

        • bjm
        • 10 years ago

        It’s not so much that I feel there is no reason to dislike Apple as much as it is that I am annoyed by the repeated use of stereotypes in bashing Apple. The stereotype regarding Apple customers always override any legitimate reasons for their liking the product. In almost every Apple related article, you will see a reference to some snobby idiot who knows nothing more than how shiny and expensive his toys are or how Apple is all about form and knows nothing about function.

      • KoolAidMan
      • 10 years ago

      Its actually very civilized around here, go to HardOCP or DailyTech, /[

        • bjm
        • 10 years ago

        Ah, very true. I lurk in those forums there from time to time and often check out the sites linked in the shortbreads. I suppose I’ve been spoiled by the discussion here and have since elevated it to a higher standard. Looking back at my post now, I do admit I was venting and had to get it off my chest. It’s like those “Micro$0ft is an evil proprietary company!” posters on some Linux sites.

    • Kulith
    • 10 years ago

    everything iDon’t,

    Droid does

    muahahahaa

    • PRIME1
    • 10 years ago

    r[

    • beck2448
    • 10 years ago

    I have a macbook pro and a windows vista laptop. The Mac in everyday usage is just faster and easier. The Dell has gotten slower and and slower despite efforts to clean it up. The Mac is the same as the day I bought it.

    • deathBOB
    • 10 years ago

    Clearly, people are willing to pay more so they don’t have to use Windows. I was.

    • albundy
    • 10 years ago

    wow, thats alot of non-gamers buying those pretty expensive email checkers.

      • BoBzeBuilder
      • 10 years ago

      Seriously. What are you going to do with a Mac? Check your email, and some office files? $2000 well spent.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 10 years ago

        Well for one I still have not found a reasonable replacement for iWeb, and lots of folks enjoy Apple’s professional apps.

        • adisor19
        • 10 years ago

        It’s mostly not worrying about viruses and maintenance all the time.

        Adi

          • BoBzeBuilder
          • 10 years ago

          I’m running Windows for 8 years, and had a virus once.

            • adisor19
            • 10 years ago

            You’re not Joe Sixpack.

            Adi

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            Neither are the folks running Apple’s professional apps. Hockey mom spends three times what she should for an email machine. Good for Apple, they laugh to the bank.

            • Hattig
            • 10 years ago

            People aren’t just buying a piece of equipment, they’re buying a lot of stuff – peace of mind, knowing that it will work nicely out of the box, simple to set up, low stress, etc.

            Maybe even that it isn’t Windows which they’re sick of at work (note that many work places have so many restrictions and start up applications, amongst other issues like home file system residing on a shared under-resourced network, and so on, so they feel Windows is slow and clunky, and they just don’t want to face that at home, even though none of these issues would present themselves).

            • tfp
            • 10 years ago

            But most of all they are buying cool.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            Yeah, actually, pro app users are generally focused on their one suite of apps. They’re not any different than a stupid internet user that’s excels at…ehm…Excel.

            • Kurotetsu
            • 10 years ago

            Its pretty sad that the only difference between BoBzeBuilder and the oft referenced ‘Joe Sixpack’ is that one has common sense (which is all you need to not get a virus) and the other doesn’t.

          • SubSeven
          • 10 years ago

          Yes, this is indeed true, that is if you are a brainless incompetent moron that surfs porn 8 hours a day.

        • Skrying
        • 10 years ago

        Show me a 13″ laptop that comes close to matching the overall package of the MacBook Pro.

        It has a performance level rarely found in a 13″ and it does it with battery life numbers far greater than virtually the entire 13″ market besides the new CULV units. You can actually run a few games decently on a MBP 13. Namely three of the most popular PC gaming titles out there. WoW, L4D, and CoD4. Maxed out? Nope, but all highly playable.

        Your bias and ignorance is annoying. You wouldn’t even know where to start on valid criticism.

          • adisor19
          • 10 years ago

          The good old Dell XPS 1330 would have come pretty close if Dell would have been smart enough to update it with newer hardware but they decided to ditch if for some reason and replaced it with a thick abomination known as the Studio 13.

          Adi

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            And it would cost the exact same amount as a MBP 13. The XPS 1330, even if updated, would probably struggle to reach the same battery life numbers. I have a late run XPS 1330 and even with the 9-cell battery it got 5:30 on a good run. That was with Intel graphics and the LED screen option, picked specifically to max out battery life.

            • adisor19
            • 10 years ago

            Well as i said, it would probably come close if Dell put some effort into it but as we all know, the 1330 is now history and Dell is putting out halfassed attempts at Apple in the form of the Adamo…

            Adi

          • BoBzeBuilder
          • 10 years ago

          l[http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834117914<]§ Battery life seems to be the only advantage Apple has at the moment, and desperate fanboys roll all over it in every debate, as if battery life is the only goddam feature that matters when purchasing a notebook. What about value? Better performance? And the ability to play EVERY game at decent settings instead of just "3"?

            • OneArmedScissor
            • 10 years ago

            I don’t think you even have to go that far.

            Everyone I know who has a Macbook Pro would have been perfectly fine even with this:

            §[<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834146578<]§ I've never met a single person who has a Mac and plays games. It's almost a moot point.

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            I’m not arguing at all that there isn’t a great number of people who wouldn’t be just as well served by CULV based units.

            This is a question of value and smart consumer thinking and decision making. The MBP 13 simply has a unique mixture of performance and battery life. All across the notebook world we see that this costs extra. There’s nothing at all unreasonable about the price Apple asks for it. Any unit comparable costs just as much. But it only makes sense if you need/want what it offers

            You would NEVER find me recommending a MBP 13 to people just needing an email checker and web surfer.

            But that’s not that question asked here. Irrational hatred of Apple products keep people like BobzeBuilder from actually asking the intelligent questions.

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            These are the battery life results from NotebookReview:

            Satellite U505: 5 hours 18 minutes (with 12-cell battery)
            Studio XPS 13: 4 hours 5 minutes (with 6-cell battery)
            MacBook Pro 13: 7 hours 59 minutes (with whatever is inside all of them)

            Results from LaptopMag:
            Satellite U505: 3 hours 30 minutes (with 6-cell battery)
            Studio XPS 13: 2 hours 42 minutes (with 6-cell battery)
            Vaio SR 390: 4 hours 26 minutes (with 6-cell battery)
            MacBook Pro 13: 6 hours 13 minutes (again, stock)

            So much for anywhere near comparable battery life numbers. Noted is the abysmal Studio XPS 13 numbers. Clearly the LaptopMag test is more stressful but either way the Dell unit is the worst. Also worth noting is that the 12-cell battery unit isn’t able to bring the Toshiba unit within 1 hour of the more demanding-test-result-MBP-13.

            Does not battery life factor into “value”?

            What performance marks are you looking at here? All of these units, except the Toshiba, have processors of the same sort. The Toshiba uses P7x00 series whereas the others are configured as P8x00 series.

            Graphics? Again, the Toshiba notably has only Intel integrated, they all have comparable graphics chips. The Vaio SR as tested in those reviews has a weaker graphics chip than your Newegg link (which actually improves its battery life numbers, so you’re at a trade off at best) and the Studio XPS 13 comes with a comparable chip.

            So where the hell is your argument? You’ve argued value yet you picked units that at the very best and most favorable of opinion on those units places them at an equal footing with the MBP 13.

            You clearly can’t think yourself out of a paper bag. The MBP 13 can play the same amount of titles as the other units you mentioned because it can boot into Windows just like those units and all of them pack graphics chips of comparable performance.

            You also failed to bring up the valid issues the MBP 13 has. Including a battery that cannot be swapped by the user and the terrible choice of MiniDisplayPort.

            • KoolAidMan
            • 10 years ago

            Your logic and clear thinking have no place here!

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            Living in fruit world, I guess it never occurred to you that value is derived by performance/$$$.

            The Satellite U500 with the Intel graphics you mentioned costs $800. That’s $400 less than the cheapest MBP that comes with half the RAM and HD space. Pathetic really.

            Battery life is part of value, and manufacturers have the right to charge extra for better BL, but only if the premium justifies the return.

            According to your half-assed logic, the HP envy should be the best notebook in the world since it does 18hrs.

            MBPs main issue is it’s terrible value, among other things. And the fact that you have to l[<"$buy$"<]l Windows to run games on a Mac even adds more to it's value. /ROLLS EYES.

            • Anonymous Coward
            • 10 years ago

            Value is not a linear relationship between price and performance, and exactly what relationship they have is different for everyone. I would buy the mac given the choices above.

            • bjm
            • 10 years ago

            What if they want Mac OS X and Mac OS X software?

            Many Mac users prefer the way iCal and Address Book work over the Windows counterparts. Or maybe they prefer the iLife suite of applications when managing, editing, and publishing their media. I suppose that you have never owned a Mac before, but there are many applications on Macs that are not available on Windows.

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            Then buy the Mac. No one’s stopping you. Some people love performance and buy the 5870 crossfire. Not good value for the money, and illogical choice for 99% of consumers.

            • Anonymous Coward
            • 10 years ago

            Not even 5870’s in crossfire can make a significant number of the troubles of Windows computing and generic PCs go away, so I’d say thats a bad analogy.

            You just need to get over this hatred of Apple and get on with your life. Perhaps you can move on to hatred of people driving cars which are not providing the optimal performance per dollar. If you want to be really visionary, you can rant against people living in houses which are expensive to maintain at a comfortable temperature.

            I ride a modest bicycle to work every day. The performance/price ratio is vast compared to a car. What does that mean for my ignorant-consumer-rating? Does it cancel out the fact that I own a Mac that was once quite expensive?

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            Please don’t compare cars and bikes to computers.

            It’s easy to determine value for computers since inside a Toshiba or an Apple are essentially the same hardware. Same Intel chip, hard-drive, similar graphics, etc….

            What’s very different are the price points.
            I don’t hate Apple, I don’t give a crap what people buy, but the fact remains that MacBooks are terrible value compared to what other manufacturers offer. That’s what I’m arguing and that’s what fanboys so readily ignore.

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            Wrong. Inside the Toshiba unit you’ve tried to argue with is a number of key components being entirely different.

            The units you did mention that have similar hardware cost just as much.

            You also leave out aspects such as the screen being used or the port layout. You also fail to consider the materials used in the chassis of the laptop.

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            You misunderstand me. He was comparing cars to computers. Cars from different manufacturers are different in every way, while I was implying that computers are made of essentially the same parts from select few manufacturers.

            Also, YOU fail at getting away with pulling stuff out of your ass.

            The U505 with Intel T6600, 4 gigs of Ram, GeForce G210M, and a 500HD costs $949.99. A farcry from the $1500 Apple’s asking for.
            And if 300Mhz of processor speed is an issue, you can always upgrade it for a $100 more.

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            You’re REALLY bad at this game.

            First, a Core 2 Duo P8700 is needed to have VT support. A feature many people would find desirous in order to use Windows XP mode in Windows 7. You also simply ignore the fact of battery life. The 12-cell battery option for the U500 costs $90. The 6-cell (as clearly shown by both Laptop Mag and NotebookReview) gets around half of the battery life, far to big of a difference to ignore.

            $1500? $1200 is the base MBP 13 with includes a P8400 Core 2 Duo, Nvidia graphics and the battery life. The Toshiba unit does have a hard drive space advantage but in an effort to be fair I did not increase the U500’s base memory from 2GB to 4GB. Again, we are within $100 of each other. Yet you continue to make a big deal about price difference where there is none.

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            l[

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            Because those components can be easily purchased from Newegg and the like and installed at a much lower price. I took the same thought into mind with the Toshiba.

            There would be no reason for someone who would be reasonable in buying these systems going with the $1500 MBP 13 other than to save a few minutes of installation time.

            You’re out of straws.

            • indeego
            • 10 years ago

            This is EXACTLY what mac buyers are doing. They are not going to newegg to get more memory, they are just eating the price of the higher cost. That is why Apple has such a high profit margin: The add-ons truly explode in price for their entire line. Power adapters? Extremely marked up.

            The cost of memory added is far more than the cost even at adding memory at HP or Dell, which are also obviously marked upg{<.<}g

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            So point out the flaws in what those people are doing! When I walk through campus and see half of the students using MacBook and MacBook Pros I don’t think to myself “I hate Apple.” I think “Boy, that person wasted a lot of money most likely.” I think the same thing when I see people with a number of situations.

            When I see someone with a Dell Inspiron 13 I think “Boy, that person sure would have been better buying a CULV system. Instead they’ve got this heavy 13″ laptop that has miserable battery life and their most demanding application is YouTube HD.”

            This is consumer ignorance. You can’t blame a product for that. You blame people not researching their purchases. It’s a major problem in all areas of life. People are careless with their money and don’t evaluate their needs.

            • MadManOriginal
            • 10 years ago

            q[

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            Oh come on. This just proves it. You shut off any critical thinking ability when you see my user name.

            Do you believe certain users have no need for a computer more power than a CULV based system such as the HP dm3z? Do you also believe that certain users do need more processing power than what is possible with a CULV?

            Going to take a wild guess and say you agree with both of those statements.

            Now…

            For a user who falls into the first case. They’re most demanding application is high quality Flash videos. They do any work on their computer in Office, etc, etc. All functions that a CULV can happily satisfy. The MacBook Pro 13 is not a good value for those person. Why would it be? It has more performance than they need and they have no reasonable and logical justification, from a performance stand point, to spend that much money. It wouldn’t matter if it were an Apple product, a Dell, a HP, a Acer, a Toshiba, a Lenovo. Wouldn’t matter one single bit. This is purely from a performance stand point. This user simply doesn’t need that much power. So why the hell would a product that has that much power represent a good value for them? It wouldn’t. This is obvious.

            Case 2. Person has some demanding applications they need to run on the go on a laptop. Say they’re a photographer and Photoshop gets sluggish real quick on a CULV based system. Say they want some light gaming ability in their laptop but don’t want to carry around a 15″ or larger beast. Whatever it may be, they need more processing power, be it in the CPU or GPU, than is found on a CULV based system. Clearly their demands are higher. Clearly they’re in a higher price bracket. Suddenly systems like the MacBook Pro 13, highly equipped Toshiba U500, Studio XPS 13, Sony Vaio SR, etc, etc. Suddenly all of these units are the ones that even come close to meeting their needs.

            Guess what? Suddenly the MacBook Pro 13 is a great value to that person. Not only does it meet their needs and offer the same performance levels at a similar price as all those other units. But it does it with better battery life. Doesn’t that seem like a great value to you?

            The biggest factor in the “value equation” is the user’s needs. To my mom a MBP 13 has little value. She doesn’t need that much system. The CULV though has great value, does everything she needs and does it at a great price point. For me, I need more. Suddenly the CULV doesn’t even meet my minimum requirements. It has zero value.

            Most students fall into the first case. Some others fall into the second case. Their value equations are different.

            Also, pro Apple posts? Do you suddenly become “pro Apple” by not being a moron and being able to look at products reasonably and make value judgments based on needs and other products that also occupy the same range? No, they’re only pro Apple in comparison to irrational bias.

            I can list more valid problems with the MacBook Pros than BobzeBuilder can. Does that still make me “pro Apple”?

            • MadManOriginal
            • 10 years ago

            No actually I just ignored all your other posts and let other folks argue with you. If you can list more valid problems with an item than someone else and yet still argue for its value that only goes to prove the argument for the sake of it case even more. Where is your list of problems with it? But I like your lengthy back-tracking justification reply!

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            Backtracking? What in my previous post was backtracking? I never declared the MacBook Pro 13 to be a good value for people who did not need what it offers. The same goes for every other laptop in that same price range. There’s absolutely no backtracking in there. You failed to comprehend a basic fact. I provided an explanation for you. That is not backtracking.

            1.) Non-removable battery. There’s little reason Apple couldn’t design a removable one and maintain excellent battery life.
            2.) MiniDisplayPort. It’s simply ridiculous. Completely unnecessary and requires the use of a dongle to work with a monitor, TV, projector, etc, etc. DisplayPort would have worked just as well and have been more than thin enough.
            3.) Removal of ExpressCard slot in the 13″ unit with the introduction of the SD slot. Both can easily exist. Virtually every other manufacturer is able to do it.
            4.) Glossy only LCD option for the 13″ MBP. I know many a “pro” who would want a matte option.

            This will all play a role in the value question for a particular user. None of these were ever mentioned by BobzeBuilder. They’re all valid and I would have certainly agreed with him if he pointed these out as flaws that could potentially ruin the value of the MBP 13 for a particular user.

            Again, a person’s needs are the biggest factor in the value equation. There is absolutely no backtracking with that statement. It is 100% common sense. People haven’t used those issues in their argument. Generally because they’re so biased they won’t even take the time to properly formulate an argument worth a shit.

            Instead they’re try to argue value based on components. Which quite honestly will never work as the MBP 13 is priced reasonably in comparison to the PC-world notebooks that have similar hardware components. Just look at the price of the Sony Vaio SR, Toshiba Satellite U500 (once it is customized to be of similar performance) and Dell Studio XPS 13.

            What is your point? I have this funny feeling you didn’t even read what I wrote. I honestly don’t believe you’re stupid, you’re the one who is looking for the argument. You consistently fail to either read or comprehend anything I write and then always counter with nothing. You’re like the Fox News of replying to my posts.

            • MadManOriginal
            • 10 years ago

            Whoa we’ve got a live one here, took the bait HARD! Reel ‘er in!

            • bjm
            • 10 years ago

            So now you were just trolling for a reaction rather than attempting to posit the argument that he was only arguing for the sake of arguing?

            Well, well, well.. look who’s backtracking now.

            • MadManOriginal
            • 10 years ago

            heh not really, just having fun, the second reply has little to do with the first. But maybe that’s no good because THE INTERNETS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS! xTimes infinity when someone has a differing opinion! I’ve attempted to have reasonable discussions with Skrying a few times but it usually ended petty rather than pretty with unnecessary jabs such as ‘Fox News of replying to my posts’ so now he’s just one of my interweb entertainment sources. Basically he’s not worth getting in to an argument with so I don’t bother. Life is too short to waste much time on him.

            • bjm
            • 10 years ago

            l[

            • SubSeven
            • 10 years ago

            If i might add that users are not just buying function but also peace of mind. I personally hate apple products (at least their PCs and notebooks) for their excessive price and their software (i prefer windows) but i cannot deny that Apple customer service is by far and above dell, HP or anyone else for that matter. One simply needs to take a broken item to an apple store and they will be taken care of virtually no questions asked. I salute Apple for this and hope some of their other competitors will learn a thing or two from them.

            • bjm
            • 10 years ago

            I agree and that is very true. I also very much prefer Windows over Mac OS X, but despite that, the model that Apple is demonstrating proves that they are doing so many things right. Maybe it’s the vertical integration that allows their customer service or overall experience to be so well delivered. From the point of sale to the use of the product to the need for technical support, you are dealing with Apple.

            Having an open platform provides great advantages, but strong standardization processes are required to keep the deviation from crap to excellent in line. The crap that most PC vendors ship with Windows give the impression that Windows itself is responsible.

            Perhaps maybe if Microsoft can promote a “Windows Clean Certified!” campaign, whereby the buyer will know its without the crapware pre-installed, it’d help with the overall experience. And if they can support those products using the new Microsoft stores, it’d go far in the furthering that end. That is, if the anti-trust dragon doesn’t come breathing down their necks.

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            NO where did I claim battery life was the most important factor in value. Also, value as being solely a factor of performance divided by cost is moronic at best.

            Additionally, you’re spouting off numbers from HP’s website. First, those numbers are only with the external battery slice. Second, all reviews have shown so far that the Envy 13 gets no where near those battery life numbers. So far it looks like HP’s Envy 13 numbers are one of the worst cases ever for a discrepancy between claimed numbers by the manufacturer and numbers achieved in reviews.

            The Toshiba unit has far worse graphics performance than the other units you mentioned as well as worse CPU performance. The only way it would even be more valuable performance/cost ratio would be if you threw out all graphics performance numbers.

            The two units that would have a case performance/cost wise you didn’t mention this time around. I can only conclude you’re missing more than a few screws.

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            l[NO where did I claim battery life was the most important factor in value.

            Yes you are. When you say the MBP is the better choice because it offers the same performance with better battery life, you are completely ignoring the fact that it costs hundreds of dollars more at the same time.

            Also, this may come as a shock, but the Toshiba unit’s graphics can be upgraded to an Nvidia chip. What’s was your point again? And how would you compare graphic performance of a Mac to a windows machine?

            §[<http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116716<]§ Only $199.99 Get your head examined.

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            Which increases the price point of the Toshbia unit. You’re also ignoring the quality of materials in the chassis. HP, Sony, Dell, Apple, etc, etc, etc all charge near identical prices for equal hardware and quality.

            Your bias is blinding. Step back from the situation and try to be rational.

            EDIT: Went to the Toshiba website to configure a U50x series unit. $1,090 is the cost for a unit with a P8x00 series Core 2 Duo, Nvidia graphics and a 12-cell battery to bring the battery life anywhere within comparable levels. This of course reduces the cost differences significantly. Once again all manufacturers are within a $100 or $200 once you get within the same performance levels in the 13.3″ form factor.

            • BoBzeBuilder
            • 10 years ago

            Read #108 about the pricing. You are being an ignorant oaf. There’s nothing wrong with the material used in a Toshiba. If you like a Mac because of the way it looks and feels, well, that’s your preference.

      • DrDillyBar
      • 10 years ago

      isn’t it though.

    • Thresher
    • 10 years ago

    I am a bit surprised at this. Not because of the economy, but because neither the iMac nor the Mac Pro have been updated in a while. I suspect most of the growth must come from MacBook and MacBook Pro laptops.

      • SGT Lindy
      • 10 years ago

      There are Tech report users (IT/Techs) and there are normal Joe Users.

      Put the first aluminum iMac, and the latest aluminum iMac in front of Joe User. Both with the same RAM (2-4gig) and even though the older one will have a .65nm CPU with less cache and slower video card, compared to the new one with a .45nm CPU with more cache and a better video card. Joe wont know a difference because the outside is the same. Joe WONT CARE either.

      Joe = 95% of consumer computer purchases.

        • ImSpartacus
        • 10 years ago

        Yeah, it’s unfortunate there are so many fools out there…

        Ignorance is bliss, amirite?

          • blastdoor
          • 10 years ago

          You seem happy enough…

          An inability to distinguish between hardware specs doesn’t make someone a “fool”. It just means that they have no need for additional computer performance and have other priorities in life. Being a computer geek doesn’t make you a better person. Get over yourself.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            there are just too many people in these comments and on tech sites in general that think they ARE the market, when tidbits like this prove otherwise.

            • Kharnellius
            • 10 years ago

            Bravo. You are correct!

            • SHOES
            • 10 years ago

            Then there are those who are concerned about getting value no matter what they buy. Compared to “ignorant” buyers who have more money than brain. No matter your justification its still a bad and stupid decision to purchase something and not spend 15 minutes researching your somewhat major purchase which you probably will spend alot of time with over the next couple of years. Think that is what he was trying to say in not so many words.

            • MadManOriginal
            • 10 years ago

            Not that you haven’t got a point but I think you missed SGT Lindy’s point. In reply to a post about certain Macs not being updated he said that most people wouldn’t know the difference with updated hardware or specs under the hood anyway, thus refuting the idea that it’s surprising non-updated Macs still sold well.

          • SGT Lindy
          • 10 years ago

          Ignorant?

          Perhaps Joe is sick of effing with malware and fixing it.

          Maybe Joe really wants the features you get in iLife, because Joe wants to preserve the digital memories of his family more than he cares about how many FPS he gets in Crysis.

          Joe is probably smart enough, that if he invested enough time, he could secure his Windows computer against the insane amount of malware. Or he could replicate most of those iLife features with a combination of free (ad infested) and paid for Windows applications.

          However Joe might value his time and that is why he chose a Mac, regardless of its inferior hardware.

          Most people here at Tech Report wont get that. However all of the people here at tech report probably dont add up to 1% of 1% of consumers purchasing computers.

            • Thresher
            • 10 years ago

            Preaching to the choir here. I’ve said it many, many times…Tech Report readers do not reflect the market. We are an itty bitty percentage. We have a little more influence than our numbers suggest, but all in all, we are a very vocal minority.

      • PeterD
      • 10 years ago

      Not updated?
      Maybe that’s why they bought it.
      Remember Vista?

    • jdaven
    • 10 years ago

    – Cash and short-term marketable securities total $34 billion
    Macrumors’ notes on conference call

    §[<http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/19/apple-reports-1-67-billion-profit-for-q4-2009-most-profitable-quarter-ever/<]§ Current market cap of Dell, Inc. = $30.04 billion §[<http://www.google.com/finance?q=NASDAQ:DELL<]§ Apple could buy every share of Dell and completely own the company with just the money it has in cash. Impressive!

      • KoolAidMan
      • 10 years ago

      If they tried to buy Dell outright it would likely be at above market value.

      That said, there’s no reason to, Apple has no interest in selling crap in the razor thin margin market.

      • adisor19
      • 10 years ago

      Oh how times have changed ! Didn’t Michael Dell say something along the lines of buying Apple in the 90’s just to put it out if its misery ?

      Adi

        • blastdoor
        • 10 years ago

        I thought his quote was more along the lines that apple should shut down and return all cash to shareholders. Either way, though, the worm has clearly turned (whatever that means).

    • indeego
    • 10 years ago

    That gross margin + cutesy advertising would make me ill. Not too ill, because the gross margin where I work is probably much higherg{<.<}g 😛

      • dpaus
      • 10 years ago

      So, for you, gross is more +’ve?

    • smilingcrow
    • 10 years ago

    I wish they’d use some of the money they are now so good at making to update the iPod so it has more features. I have a 160GB Classic and the amount of accessories available for it is fantastic but the features on the actual unit are dire.
    Apple’s dominance of the market is stifling it which I wouldn’t mind if they developed the software more. Please Apple, develop the iPod O/S.

      • indeego
      • 10 years ago

      “Please Apple, develop the iPod O/S.”

      This will never, ever ever happen. It is abandoned. It doesn’t sell higher margin devices for them. You will have to go open source/third party for what you desireg{<.<}g

      • jdaven
      • 10 years ago

      Um, I thought the iPod touch pretty much has it’s own OS. It’s basically the iPhone OS without the cellular features. What’s wrong with the OS on the iPod touch with respect to your request?

        • indeego
        • 10 years ago

        He’s not talking about the Touch at all, he’s talking about ipod/ipod classicsg{<.<}g

          • jdaven
          • 10 years ago

          Well,the iPod touch is basically the large touch screen replacement for the clickwheel ipod classic. Apple might release a large touch screen equivalent to replace the clickwheel nano. It might be similar to the nano fatty generation but with a touch screen taking up the entire front bezel.

          At this point, I see apple discontinuing the classic and the nano.

    • shank15217
    • 10 years ago

    In a time of economic downfall, people dont have many ways to show off success. Carrying a mac or a iphone gives everybody some assurance that even they have access to some luxury. The Apple brand is slowly reaching the same level of status as BMW, Lexus etc.

      • dpaus
      • 10 years ago

      I’d say it hit that point a long time ago. If not Apple, what other vendor has a status within high-tech comparable to what BMW has within autos?

        • ludi
        • 10 years ago

        So you say a vendor of high-dollar computer accessories that are lauded for their form, function, and entertainment value when new, while being ridiculously expensive to repair and maintain in the long-run, has achieved status parity with BMW?

          • dpaus
          • 10 years ago

          Why, yes, I believe I did 🙂

            • shank15217
            • 10 years ago

            I believe he did as well.

            • ludi
            • 10 years ago

            Read it again. You ever try to maintain a high-mileage BMW?

            • indeego
            • 10 years ago

            Maybe it’s time you read itg{

            • ludi
            • 10 years ago

            What?

        • jon_lui
        • 10 years ago

        Sony maybe?
        Especially with their outrageously priced VAIO lineup.

      • TurtlePerson2
      • 10 years ago

      I think it’s because people that have money still have money. If you haven’t lost your job (and most people haven’t), then you’re doing just as well as you have always been doing.

      iPhone is probably going to continue getting more subscribers for a little while as people have their old cell phone contract expire.

      • SGT Lindy
      • 10 years ago

      Or since un-employment is at 10% that means that 90% are still working.

      • Anonymous Coward
      • 10 years ago

      How about we see something happen and try to NOT blame the economic downfall?

    • WaltC
    • 10 years ago

    It was a good quarter for a lot of people:

    §[<http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1207613<]§ HP alone selling >16,000,000 machines in the quarter (if I read that right) particularly got my attention...;)

      • sbarash
      • 10 years ago

      Gee, but that would never make the front page at TR, would it…?

        • TurtlePerson2
        • 10 years ago

        Of course not. It’s irrelevant what the large PC suppliers do. Only Apple matters because they’re special.

        • KoolAidMan
        • 10 years ago

        Wall Street doesn’t really care because most of HP’s profits come from the low margin computers with very slow growth in a mature market. AAPL continues to show blowout numbers in the higher margin mid and high end with growth that continues to accelerate. Its very simple. This is why you have companies like AAPL and RIMM with people willing to buy them at higher PE ratios.

          • no51
          • 10 years ago

          Are you implying that they’re bubbles?

          • SubSeven
          • 10 years ago

          Yes, they are selling stuff that is very high margin yet their gross margins are a whopping 36%!!!!! Could it be because Apple is a poorly run company that can’t handle costs very well or is it because their products aren’t as high margin as you’d like to believe? In either case (though i personally am more inclined toward the former), I’d recommend you learn the principles of short selling and sell short the bejesus out of Apple’s stock.

            • Skrying
            • 10 years ago

            Would that factor into markets that they have barely any margin, such as the majority of what is available on iTunes? They’re clearly trying to introduce high margin products into it (Digital LP or whatever that crap is).

            • SubSeven
            • 10 years ago

            Why don’t be kind enough and go ahead and tell me the amount of revenue the segments that have barely any margin generated for Apple and then see how this fits into the overall gross margin calculation.

            • KoolAidMan
            • 10 years ago

            I’ve been stopped out /[

        • Anonymous Coward
        • 10 years ago

        Nobody cares about some PC vendor shipping a crapload of low margin junk, just like every other vendor, just like they do every quarter.

          • WaltC
          • 10 years ago

          Well, interestingly enough, some 16,120,000 “people” thought enough about HP to buy HP machines in the quarter, whereas 3.050,000 “people” thought about Apple enough to buy a Mac in the quarter. So let’s see…that’s about 529% more “thought” given to HP “junk” than to Apple Macs last quarter.

          Then–let’s take just the #2 and #3 “junk” vendors and add them together: Acer sold 12,484,000 machines & Dell sold 10,343,000 machines, for a total of 22,827,000 computers sold last quarter. That’s more than the sum total of Macs, iPods, and iPhones combined that Apple sold in the quarter (Apple sold 20,650,000 iPhones, iPods, and Macs in the quarter.) Again, it would seem as if a whole lot of people cared very much about buying computers not made by Apple.

          Total combined computer sales in the quarter were 80,864,000. If we deduce that Macs comprised 3,050,000 of that total, then some 2651% more “care” went into buying something not made by Apple than went into buying a Mac. I’m not sure if your “nobody cares” remark is very accurate…;)

          Besides, it looks to me like Apple’s gross margin of 36.6% last quarter included iPhone and iPod sales, so how do you know that the Macs Apple sold weren’t “low margin,” too? After al, Macs are “PCs” too these days, at the hardware level, aren’t they?

          I’m very glad Apple had such a nice quarter, btw. Again, though, most of Apple’s success comes from selling products other than Macs. A little perspective as to where Apple Macs fit into the whole market never hurts, imo.

            • indeego
            • 10 years ago

            I’ve tried to get 4 people to get macs in the past year, simply because it absolves me of “tech support duty.” 2 went mac, 2 went PC. Strangely it was the “richer” of the 4 that went PC (One custom build by me, and the other was an HP ultraportableg{<.<}g) The custom build by me was directly from a TR systems guide about 10 months ago and the user is /[

            • Anonymous Coward
            • 10 years ago

            Happily for you, there are boring financial publications to read so you can get all excited about just how many people purchased mainstream, unimaginative, low margin, generic PCs.

            The rest of us can read news about the profitable, trend-setting, game-changing, one-of-a-kind fruity PC maker. Love them or hate them, they make things happen.

    • wira020
    • 10 years ago

    Why?… Is iPhone realy that good???

      • PRIME1
      • 10 years ago

      If you don’t mind the high price and the substandard AT&T service.

      If they dropped the rate and moved it to Verizon I would be all over it.

        • dpaus
        • 10 years ago

        Verizon is adding the Palm Pre in January, so you can look at that. But I don’t think you’ll see the iPhone there anytime soon.

    • SecretMaster
    • 10 years ago

    Love them or hate them, they are doing something right.

      • Kurotetsu
      • 10 years ago

      They’re doing a very, very good job of leveraging (if that’s the right word) all the advantages a closed platform provides. Being able to pick and choose who and what runs on your system makes life a hell of a lot easier in many ways.

        • dlenmn
        • 10 years ago

        I take it that you’re referring to the iPhone. Apple doesn’t chose who and what runs on OS X, so that explanation wouldn’t explain the 17% increase in computer sales.

          • StashTheVampede
          • 10 years ago

          “Apple doesn’t chose who and what runs on OS X”

          To a large degree, wrong. Apple has chosen Intel processors and chipsets to be the sole provider for the desktop, laptop and server products.

          Apple also has chosen EFI (yay) vs. BIOS for their mother/logic boards.

          You can’t run OSX, stock, without modifications if you aren’t using an Apple board.

            • dpaus
            • 10 years ago

            Are you confusing “what OS X runs on” with “what runs on OS X”??

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            yeah, that was kinda how I read it. Very slick way to put it, too. :p

            • dlenmn
            • 10 years ago

            As dpaus pointed out, you misread or misunderstood what I wrote. What I wrote was not wrong.

            • SGT Lindy
            • 10 years ago

            Nvidia is in there some place, but you are right for the most part.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 10 years ago

            Out of context, maybe, but the comment he replied to was about the applications, not the hardware.

      • axeman
      • 10 years ago

      They can probably thank Microsoft’s poor execution in the last few years for some of that profit.

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