AMD video shows Llano, Sandy Bridge side by side

An interesting video has appeared in AMD’s YouTube account. The three-minute clip shows the screens of two laptops as they run a graphics-heavy benchmark. One laptop is running a Core i7-2630QM processor (a.k.a. Sandy Bridge in its quad-core incarnation), while the other sports Llano, AMD’s upcoming mainstream accelerated processing unit. Check it out:

The video tells us a couple of things. First, in this particular scenario—playing a game with an Excel workload in the background, then adding a video and another 3D app to the mix—Llano appears to offer smoother video and 3D performance with slightly lower power consumption than Sandy Bridge. That’s not entirely surprising. Llano is fabbed on a 32-nm process, just like Sandy Bridge, and we’ve been told it will have a more powerful graphics component than the Intel alternative. As with all manufacturer-run tests, though, we recommend taking this one with a grain of salt.

The second revelation from this video can be seen in the splash screen, which effectively spills the beans about AMD’s model naming scheme for Llano. Apparently, we’re looking at an AMD accelerated quad-core processor A8-3510MX with Radeon HD 6620M integrated graphics and an A70M Fusion controller hub. That pretty much confirms last month’s rumor about AMD dropping CPU brand names, although to be frank, I was expecting a little more simplicity. Does a CPU model number really have to contain three letters and five digits? (Thanks to Engadget for the link.)

Comments closed
    • ybf
    • 12 years ago

    Not to mention that there’s hardly a person in Llano who pronounces it the way it’s spelled (since it’s spelled in Spanish).

    • ybf
    • 12 years ago

    I noticed it completed later, but was a little ahead when the Excel window first appeared.

    I noticed the game play was smoother.

    I noticed the app with the car in it was static on the Intel side..

    I noticed that Intel’s had Sandy Bridge out for months and AMD is only now benchmarking Llano. So you know what’s going to happen next.

    • ybf
    • 12 years ago

    The model-numbering thing isn’t really a valid criticism of anyone. Intel’s fully-qualified part numbers make good security keys.

    • Beelzebubba9
    • 12 years ago

    Since AMD tested the Intel system with a desktop motherboard I think it’s wise to take their power consumption numbers with an extra large grain of salt. The Phenom II core used in Llano was never as power efficient as the Nehalem derivatives, so it’d take some engineering on a level we haven’t seen out of AMD in years (or maybe ever) to get it better than the Sandy Bridge core considering SNB’s ~15% advantage over Westmere in single threaded workloads.

    As much as I’d love AMD to make a CPU that provides better 3D graphics with lower power at the cost of x86 performance relative to Sandy Bridge, I’m just not sure how they’re going to close the efficiency gap unless they really throw x86 performance under the bus. Brazos is an impressive showing relative to the Atom, but that was a ground-up core design on a smaller process node, so I’m not sure how much that translates to Llano.

    • Ditiris
    • 12 years ago

    Your post only contained the word cheese twice but I’m hungry and that was enough to make me remember that I bought string cheese last night and failed to pack it in my lunch to take to work this morning. And now I don’t have any string cheese to eat.

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    It’s called Marketing. NVidia is the reigning champ, but AMD is becoming a solid contender.

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    Sorry, but I didn’t “miss” any points – it’s my day job to understand all this stuff

    While reading your comment, I was was wondering if I should respond in a mean, pragmatic, educational or trollish way. In the end, you agree with the 4GHz limit thingy, so I don’t feel the need to respond any further..

    • abw
    • 12 years ago

    Neelycam, as usual, you miss some points…
    smaller devices reduces parasistics caps, but since their
    number is increased, the total capacitance stay almost the same.
    As for crossconduction of puch pull paired devices, be assured that
    their behaviour is well modeled with spice like simulators and that the
    circuits are designed in a way that the switch on time of the conducting device
    is slightly higherthan the switch off time of the symetric device, otherwise our
    processors would randomly flashes in flames after some times….
    Input impedance in DC mode of nfets and pfets is typicaly 10^12 ohm, so the total
    impedance off all devices is still very high…
    Any EE will tell you that the gate capacitance is the major
    parameter in switching speed.
    That said, you are right about the 4GHZ limit myth…

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    Absolutely not true. A lot of energy is lost in CMOS logic transitions because part of the time both NMOS and PMOS are on (current just passes straight through). Also, most of charging/discharging energy is going to charge/discharge of the gates in the logic cell being driven – parasitics play a role, but nowhere near 99%.

    Scaling has made transistor gate capacitances smaller and transistor drive strengths higher – first one contributing to lower transition energy, and both contributing to faster transitions (i.e., higher clock speeds).

    This can clearly be seen in Intel’s latest CPUs – going from 45nm to 32nm yielded higher clock frequencies [i<]and[/i<] lower load power consumption. This trend has been going on for a long time, and can be expected to continue going forward (at least for a couple more generations). There is no 4GHz clock barrier.

    • abw
    • 12 years ago

    Nothing like this, but just remember that total energy to switch on/off
    simultaneously all the transistors of a 100 W TDP CPU is about 0.001W….
    A watt or two are lost on leakages and the remaining 99% or so are
    lost charging and discharging all the parasistics capacitors.
    Since the dies areas are more or less kepts the same even the nodes
    are reduced, the equivalent total parasistic capacitance is maintained almost
    constant in new generations of processors , leading to the same losses at
    the same freaquencies…

    • abw
    • 12 years ago

    Expect Llano to be relatively low frequency, in fact depending of the SP number
    wich will be from 160 to 320 variants, filling the market segmentation above Zacate
    and below the much awaited Zambezi.
    The Trade off is to counter Sandybridge with a 30% slower CPU but
    as much as 100% better video performance for the 320sp models.
    Indeed, by experience of the rapidly outdated GFX in previous laptops,
    i would choose Llano over SB…..

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    Please don’t tell me [i<]again[/i<] that there is a magical 4GHz frequency barrier through which no man/woman shall pass... If you do, I have to slap you silly with strained-silicon transistors and low-K dielectrics..

    • sweatshopking
    • 12 years ago

    Bazinga? That’s not nice uber. Don’t punish my wife because i’m stupid.

    • clone
    • 12 years ago

    nothing you mention is AMD telling a lie…. they are good examples where AMD didn’t do well sure but no lies.

    the AMD review samples were just that non production samples and reviewed accordingly, it was AMD that announced that their was a TLB bug you can’t fault them for accepting responsibility, they killed their own product launch because they were honest…. no lie.

    2nd paragraph, AMD’s TLB bug to this day has not been replicated by an independent source at least I’ve yet to find any so even to cry foul is kinda hard especially when AMD heavily discounted the parts that weren’t broken nor even really buggy, if this is your example of a “lie” it’s the worst kept lie in history.

    3rd paragraph what names AMD chooses for it’s processors is up to them, they didn’t hide the frequencies, they didn’t hide what the chips are composed of, poor taste… a little sure but not uncommon (Nvidia)

    4th paragraph again how AMD names it’s gpu’s is up to AMD they didn’t lie just because you wish they follow the pattern.

    5th paragraph lol Intel was found guilty so it’s not a lie to say they are evil, saying capacity constrained wasn’t a lie and Intel is the reason AMD bought ATI, Intel sells platforms that OEMS have confidence in, AMD could not have survived if they had not gone that way… the ATI acquisition was a very good move for AMD and the only reason they are still around today with a hope of a future…. p.s. apparently AMD’s Fusion gfx are better than Intel’s… how is that a lie?

    bulldozer doesn’t have the same front end as Nehalem and the instruction capabilities you mention are industry standards established by both Intel and AMD like the 64bit extensions and 3d now extensions intel is using…. it’s not a lie it’s called a cross licensing agreement between both companies.

    • chuckula
    • 12 years ago

    In recent years there is one thing that I haven’t seen AMD do. I haven’t seen them lie about anything.

    Huh… How about sending out Barcelona samples to all the review websites that 1. did not include the TLB fix that had a 10% performance penalty and 2. Overclocked the cache and the rest of the un-core to levels that the chips shipped to customers never reached??

    How about shipping known defective Phenoms instead of the “dishonest” approach that Intel took in admitting that there was a problem and recalling the defective products?

    How about giving Phenoms the exact same model numbers as earlier-released i7 processors (the 940 in particular) so that AMD fanbois could brag how cheap the Phenom was when the i7 was in a completely different league for performance and the Phenom was beat by lower-end Intel quad cores at the same price points?

    How about re-naming the Radeon 6xxx series to intentionally confuse people comparing them to earlier Radeons that were still on sale in the markets?

    How about spinning propaganda about how evil and nasty big-bad Intel is while simultaneously bragging about how you are capacity constrained at your fabs. How about blaming Intel for your stupid decision to spend $6 Billion on ATI and still take over 5 years to have a “fusion” product that comes out later than Intel.. and Intel admits that it sucks at graphics to boot.

    How about claiming to have invented silicon and the light bulb and that Intel “stole” everything from you when your Bulldozer chip has the same front-end as Nehalem and 100% of the new instruction capabilities (SSE 4.1, AVX, AES etc) are just copies of capabilities Intel was already shipping?

    • dpaus
    • 12 years ago

    Bazinga!

    • smilingcrow
    • 12 years ago

    If that is true it makes the power consumption figures a farce.

    • UberGerbil
    • 12 years ago

    That’s because they haven’t had to do that in quite a while. Back when Xeons were getting plastered by Opterons they did a bit of this kind of head-to-head marketing spin. But since Woodcrest there’s been no need. Comparing yourself to the other guy is a gambit for the “We’re #2, We Try Harder” folks. If you’re the leader, you don’t deign to acknowledge the competition even exists.

    • UberGerbil
    • 12 years ago

    Shall we refer them to your wife?

    • OneArmedScissor
    • 12 years ago

    lol 100 MHz? There are already 3.7 GHz Phenom IIs. Neither Intel or AMD have made a CPU that runs faster than 3.8 GHz in the 6+ years since the first one showed up.

    • sweatshopking
    • 12 years ago

    the sad thing is, that you see it almost everyday! PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN WHAT LOOSE MEANS!

    • sweatshopking
    • 12 years ago

    hmmm coming from a guy named “radeon”, you might appear biased.

    • HisDivineShadow
    • 12 years ago

    “Does a CPU model number really have to contain three letters and five digits?”

    It does when it owns ATI, king of the crazy number and letter combos. Clearly, the Product Namers of ATI (a clan of nomads that were lured into ATI with the offer of cheese) were acquired with the purchase of ATI. Using their blessed cheese, they were able to convert their tech from naming video cards to naming CPU’s that include video components. Using this new technology, the Product Namers of ATI were renamed the Product Namers of AMD. Newly empowered, they have begun naming everything Fusion they can find.

    I think it’s interesting that AMD needs such a specific case to try and show off something that isn’t even available yet. In any general scenario, their Llano would get smacked around like a red-headed stepchild. Keep trying, AMD, but know that when you’re done with the PR spin, we’re all waiting for Bulldozer. In laptops.

    • Alouette Radeon 4870
    • 12 years ago

    You’re right about that, they do try to make their products look as good as possible and we’ll have to wait for any confirmed tests. However, there is one thing that you haven’t taken into account. In recent years there is one thing that I haven’t seen AMD do. I haven’t seen them lie about anything. I cannot say the same for Intel (antitrust) or nVidia (fake fermi presentation).

    • Alouette Radeon 4870
    • 12 years ago

    I wouldn’t concern myself with an upgrade if those are the specs of your HTPC. My HTPC is a Pentium-4 2.4GHz with a Radeon HD 3450 256MB AGP. It does the job perfectly on my 52″ Sony Bravia at full 1080p. Your HTPC is superior to mine. Why on earth would you bother upgrading it? Do you really love flushing money down the toilet so much?

    BTW – Mine was also made from old leftover components, except for the 1TB HD and the Sony Blu-Ray-ROM/DVD-RW drive.

    • Theolendras
    • 12 years ago

    I somehow wonder if Intel is hanging their OpenCL drivers and DirecCompute solution until AMD gets competitive enough in the CPU departement to have no choice but to also try to compete head on in the GPU departement. But I doubt it will happen in the next year.

    As no widespread adoption of these developpement technique is really favoring Intel CPU in some markets.

    Can’t wait to get a more objective review of these Llano, to see if it’s worth some of my tax return.

    • Theolendras
    • 12 years ago

    Looks like a great alternative for those who care about integrated graphics, which might for once not echoes with pure crap and gaming unable. The next years is gonna bring a lot to the common denominator in the graphics departement.

    If integrated GPU are able to play most latest games, albeit at low quality but with a constant 30 + FPS, it can get really interesting.

    • Theolendras
    • 12 years ago

    Nice, but you know it might be daunting to do benchmark on your own.

    • Theolendras
    • 12 years ago

    Linux Flash acceleration is one of them. It is probably many months away from being perfectly funtionnal on linux. AMD graphic acceleration on linux is somehow spotty and a little neglected compared to others. I for one like to get the power needed with or without graphic acceleration. Get away with a functionnal HTPC on whaterver content you throw at it right off the bat, then refine the GPU acceleration and post processing as you go.

    Well, at least, if it does not mean going up to 100W + system.

    • boomshine
    • 12 years ago

    i dont trust 3rd party reviews either LOL

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    I don’t recall Intel having demos where they compare their own products to someone else’s side-by-side.

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    He was definitely being a smart ass, but he has a point.

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    Yeah, but that wasn’t on 32nm SOI

    • steddy
    • 12 years ago

    They probably simulated the i7-2630QM by downclocking an i7-2600.

    • JustAnEngineer
    • 12 years ago

    I’m thinking Micro-ATX, but I’d even consider mini-ITX if there are some decent options.

    • Althernai
    • 12 years ago

    I would wait to see what the actual battery life is like before judging the power consumption. The power measurements in this demo definitely required some trick on AMD’s part (as I said, Sandy Bridge doesn’t behave that way at idle). I’d be pretty impressed if AMD could pull off a battery life as good as Sandy Bridge, but given that they have essentially a mid-range GPU in there, I’ll believe it when I see it.

    • insulin_junkie72
    • 12 years ago

    [quote<]I can’t wait for the big time AMD TV ads with the tagline[/quote<] Nah, they'll hire Charlie Sheen to spout some of his Sheen-isms. On the other hand, maybe he IS their new marketing department.

    • smilingcrow
    • 12 years ago

    Interesting comparison but at the same time it seems somewhat an unusual workload that they chose! Is AMD’s marketing department run by a spotty Ritalin addled 15 year old with a serious ADHD problem?
    I can’t wait for the big time AMD TV ads with the tagline:

    AMD Vision ADD-4-1000 brought to you by Sandoz (subsidiary of Novartis) the people that brought you LSD. Now that would blow my mind.

    The ADD-4-1000 tag would be part of a new naming convention:
    X-Y-Z

    X = name of the disorder that the CPU-GP/AP-U works best with.
    Y= frequency of medication per day.
    Z = number of milligrams per dosage.

    Makes about as much sense as the nonsense that the stoners at AMD & Intel come up with.

    • smilingcrow
    • 12 years ago

    Why is the Intel platform listed as using an Asus P8H67-M which is a desktop motherboard? If they can’t even get that right …….. sighs.

    • stmok
    • 12 years ago

    The AMD A8-3510MX processor has a default speed of 1.8Ghz
    (I have no idea on its turbo speed though).

    There will be a lower-end version under the A4-series branding.

    As for the IGP…
    6630M => 480 Stream Processing Units
    6620M => 400 Stream Processing Units

    Personally, I want Bulldozer-cores in AMD’s mainstream Fusion line. So I guess I’ll be holding out just a little longer until “Trinity” comes in 2012.

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    Intel CPUs have always done well in Excel. You know, professionals care about that stuff.

    I don’t think it really matters that much for Llano’s target audience.

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    “Play nice – you have to learn to play nice with other kids. No, NO! Don’t take his toy! You can have this toy. You have to share, or I have to put you to a time-out.”

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    I love that link.

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    I agree with the pointlessness of speculation.

    However, I have to disagree on the idle power comment. “Idle power” depends on 1) leakage through inactive parts, and 2) active power of parts that are kept active because of necessity (power management has to be on) or preference (don’t want to shut down the memory controller because wake up and link re-train takes too long).

    There is plenty of room for innovation on both 1) and 2).

    • UberGerbil
    • 12 years ago

    [url=http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling<]This might help[/url<]

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    What I can’t wait to see is how much they are able to up the clock frequency due to 32nm SOI.

    • khands
    • 12 years ago

    Yes, they’re die shrunk IGP combined Phenom IIs.

    • Edgar_Wibeau
    • 12 years ago

    Core: 458 MHz, Ram: 667 MHz
    [url<]http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,814327/Cebit-2011-AMD-zeigt-Llano-im-Vergleich-zu-Sandy-Bridge-plus-Die-Shot-und-neue-Namen/CPU/News/bildergalerie/?iid=1496880[/url<] Edit: CPU-Cores: 1,8 GHz [url<]http://www.pcgameshardware.de/aid,814327/Cebit-2011-AMD-zeigt-Llano-im-Vergleich-zu-Sandy-Bridge-plus-Die-Shot-und-neue-Namen/CPU/News/[/url<] Edit 2: Turbo: off for both, Llano CPU cores perform slower than Sandy's.

    • Incubus
    • 12 years ago

    Isn’t the CPU in Liano based on the Phenom architecture?If so then i think the bulldozer based APUs and CPUs are gonna bee much faster that what Intel offers or will offer through out this year at least;D

    • sweatshopking
    • 12 years ago

    OAS, be nice.

    • sschaem
    • 12 years ago

    llano is higher clock, by at least 20% . AMD made that comparison on price alone.

    What you can see from the video is. AMD cant make a good CPU (compared to intel)
    but cream Intel at GPU design in Performance, power and functionality.

    Good thing for AMD that Flash is going GPU full force, and that Google and Microsoft are building GPU accelerated web browsers, and that Apple is thrusting OpenCL forward.

    With those those 4 companies, llano would be a failure.

    • sschaem
    • 12 years ago

    The power consumption is explained by having the intel chip not even render 1/10 the frames that llano display.
    So its possible that the lower update rate in excel is explained by the 3d demo using allot more memory bandwidth… the intel chip having more bandwidth for execl ?

    Dunno. My feeling is that llano without a GPU workload wont be much better then sandy bridge.
    Do you want 20% better excel calculation rate? go with intel?
    Want more battery life and a better web experience, go with AMD?
    Want to use 3D/OpenCL accelerated tools , go with AMD
    Encoding allot of video, go with Intel
    etc…

    I dont see a clear winner. But I’m glad I dont have to settle with a Sandy Bridge latptop …
    But then Intel thunderbolt and Quicksync are huge value with no AMD equivalent.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    If you really feel there’s “nothing to see here” then there is really no need for you to comment and be rude about it. The fact that you’re nit-picking little snippets to respond to is just douche-baggy, too. I haven’t been rude to you or dismissive of you, but you have managed to be each time you’ve posted. It’s pretty gross.

    • sschaem
    • 12 years ago

    +1 for intel for releasing the 2630qm before AMD llano
    +10 for AMD for releasing a chip that more capable then Goliath at almost all levels.

    • FuturePastNow
    • 12 years ago

    Be interesting to see what kind of graphics performance they can get with a desktop power envelope. Wonder if there will be a 95W version?

    By way of comparison, board TDP for the desktop Radeon 5670 (400 shaders @ 775MHz) is 61W.

    • sschaem
    • 12 years ago

    Beside that fact that you can save 10 to 30% of power under load?
    Might be nice for laptops … smaller, less weight , longer battery life better browsing and web experience in modern apps.
    For laptop manufacturer AMD might offer much better 3d (for web, games and professional apps), better video support , less power consumption… even if AMD solution is more costly then Intel I could see Apple, Dell, etc.. paying more for AMD chips.

    • OneArmedScissor
    • 12 years ago

    “that fact that it’s based on K10.5 means there’s plenty of room to question.”

    Eh…I think that means the opposite. It’s an Athlon II X2 with up to four cores and an integrated PCIe controller. It’s not even a Phenom II. Again, move along, nothing to see here.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    In a laptop or a small form factor desktop or HTPC I can definitely see the virtue of giving equal focus to the GPU, but in an office setting the GPU is of little importance and in a gaming setting you’re going to have a discreet card.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    So he’s missing my point because my point is weird and, also, AMD made Llano so that average joe could game, watch video, 3d model, and calculate Excel all at the same time? I’m saying an absurdly small percent of users use their machines in such a way, and regardless of how “weird” my point is he still missed it. I’m not finding “weird” scenarios either – I’m finding typical scenarios and asking how Llano does in those situations. How bout encoding while gaming? How bout encoding while watching video? How bout straight up gaming? How bout rendering a model view at the same time you’re working on the model? This demo video from AMD doesn’t tell us any of that.

    And how is it weird to focus on CPU performance for a moment? After all, I think we’re all pretty confident that Llano’s GPU is going to be better than Sandy Bridge’s, so there’s “nothing to see here” as far as that is concerned. The performance of the CPU is much less certain and that fact that it’s based on K10.5 means there’s plenty of room to question.

    I’ve mentioned 3 particular things:
    [list=1<] [*<]power consumption at idle (which I consider far more important than at load) [/*<][*<]single threaded performance (and multi-threaded performance is a function of this - to varying degrees, but still it is related) [/*<][*<]performance during more likely multi-tasking scenarios[/*<] [/list<]

    • krazyredboy
    • 12 years ago

    Really, the only thing that this video proves to me, is that the AMD CPU is capable of handling that game a little better. Everything else seems to be close enough to each other that it would seem like a negligible difference. Therefor, the only reason I would choose one over the other (in terms of this video, anyway), would be the cost.

    • ImSpartacus
    • 12 years ago

    I know!

    I loved AMD’s graphics naming scheme. Four digits, that’s it. One for generation, one for class and two for other variations.

    It’s clean and easy to remember in two two-digit chunks.

    • srg86
    • 12 years ago

    “Finally, Llano’s GPU is part of the processor just like AVX is part of Sandy Bridge.”

    Not quite, AVX is an extension of the x86 ISA, the onchip GPU is not. It does not add extra registers or instructions to the CPU like AVX does.

    • srg86
    • 12 years ago

    Personally I want a faster CPU MUCH more than a faster GPU for my own usage.

    • khands
    • 12 years ago

    Depends on what all you want to do with it.

    • khands
    • 12 years ago

    The 6990 isn’t out for a week or two yet, you likely saw a preview which a bunch of tech sites have been doing lately.

    • steddy
    • 12 years ago

    Did anyone else notice that Llano appeared to be getting creamed in the Excel calulations?

    • OneArmedScissor
    • 12 years ago

    The trouble is that your point seems to be finding weird scenarios where you can compare Llano and Sandy Bridge based exclusively on CPU speed, and you’ve said a few things suggesting you mean that exclusively in high performance desktop applications.

    That isn’t why AMD made Llano, nor why anyone buying it would care to. Move along, nothing to see here.

    • TheBulletMagnet
    • 12 years ago

    Lose. The word you want is lose. Loose is the opposite of tight.

    • Voldenuit
    • 12 years ago

    Actually, if you use excel for heavy calculations (as opposed to simply tabulating your shopping costs), that is entirely feasible.

    Not everyone plays a 3D game while waiting for excel macros to finish, but I was a grad student once, and that’s exactly what I would have done (substitute excel with matlab, ansys, fluent, video transcoding, photoshop with batch scripts on a case by case basis etc).

    I do retain some reservations and skepticism of the demo, as AMD is not above tweaking its canned demos to show themselves in a better light (but then, who isn’t?). I’ll wait for independent testing and benchmarks, but this demo is a smart move by AMD, as it may prompt a greater interest and emphasis on multithreaded and multi-workload benchmarks, which have somewhat stagnated since the Pentium D days.

    • FuturePastNow
    • 12 years ago

    The MX probably does signify high-end mobile. It’s still a needlessly complex name, though, and the fact that Intel needlessly complicates its names also doesn’t excuse it.

    • FuturePastNow
    • 12 years ago

    Do you see who you’re replying to? Try to keep up.

    • mesyn191
    • 12 years ago

    Can’t tell if you’re being a smart ass but Llano is supposed to be coming in April, so you shouldn’t see it yet. 6990 won’t be out for a while yet either.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    Dude, you’re just not catching my point at all :frown:

    • PRIME1
    • 12 years ago

    I found a laptop on newegg with a 2630qm (also has a 460m in it).
    [url<]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834152239&Tpk=2630qm[/url<] I could not find a llano chip anywhere? Can someone post a link? I also saw a review for a 6990 over at hardocp, but I could not find that on newegg either. Did it sell out already?

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 12 years ago

    And they fired that CEO, AMD may loose head on but they have a very good way of competing with intel in price and other forms of functionality.

    I’m always a little put off by how much AMD and Nvidia rig their demos though.

    • OneArmedScissor
    • 12 years ago

    I’m just offering an explanation of how a Sandy Bridge laptop running on integrated graphics could be sitting at the desktop using 30w, without someone sabotaging the test in some way.

    Speculation beyond that is pointless. We don’t actually even know they were idling, and it doesn’t need to say anything about idle power. No one has reduced idle power in laptops since Core 2, and everything has become homogenized since that point. There’s a floor there with the CPU/chipset and once that’s hit, idle power use is more dependent on the particular laptop’s setup.

    • maroon1
    • 12 years ago

    Did anyone else notice that the Intel setup is using a desktop Asus H67 motherboard? That could skew the power consumption up for Intel quite a bit…

    Anyway, I rather wait for independent and neutral review. People should not take this AMD demonstration seriously. Companies usually attempt to make their products look as good as possible.

    • Hattig
    • 12 years ago

    I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s running significantly slower if there is going to be a 45W or a 35W quad-core Llano offerings.

    “AMD accelerated quad-core processor A8-3510MX with Radeon HD 6620M integrated graphics and an A70M Fusion controller hub”

    Catchy, it just rolls off the tongue!

    C’mon, X4 made sense, and do we need four numbers after that. Why not call it an “AMD A-Series 351 X4 APU” or something?

    • tejas84
    • 12 years ago

    What is wrong with Brazos? It would be a perfect HTPC base…

    • NeelyCam
    • 12 years ago

    Actually, if they haven’t used the power saving features, the numbers say nothing about true idle power… this is more like “active power with zero load”

    Intel’s power saving schemes have been ahead of AMD’s for years, and SB would probably idle at lower power levels than AMD’s, but since this is an AMD demo, it surely wouldn’t allow SB to be seen as better in any possible way.

    Nothing new here, though – demos are generally rigged. Waiting for real numbers… maybe Llano will eventually be released to the general public, so actual benchmarking can begin.

    • shank15217
    • 12 years ago

    How did you come to the conclusion that the tasks on the benchmark were not multi-threaded?

    • mcnabney
    • 12 years ago

    Well, since this is on point, I am doing that RIGHT NOW. My pathetic work-provided laptop takes almost a half hour on a 4 year old dual core to refresh an entire workbook that I publish for my employer. I am using a different computer to post this and in fact I am running Hulu in the background. I have to use two computers to keep myself busy, but apparently a Llanos-equiped laptop won’t have any problems keeping me busy.

    • Veerappan
    • 12 years ago

    I’ve gone the other direction:

    1) Play Eve Online
    2) Keep an Excel sheet open in the background to do market pricing calculations on the Eve Market.
    3) Watch a movie while I’m running missions.

    Of course the Excel stuff was pretty low-intensity, but I’ve done all three at the same time.

    • JMccovery
    • 12 years ago

    Honestly, does “A8-3510MX” sound any better than “i7-2630QM”? Since there is an “X” at the end of the ‘name’, am I correct in guessing that this may be a mobile variation of FX? I can’t wait for the desktop version of Llano.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    Of course single threaded performance is important to me. So is multi-threaded performance. What is not so important to me is [i<]multi-tasking[/i<] performance. AMD's video shows that Llano is great at multi-tasking, but if I open up a single multi-threaded app, is Sandy going to cream Llano? If I open up a single single-threaded app, is Sandy going to cream Llano? If I open up one single-threaded app in the background and play a game (on a real video card, by the way, and an interesting game that I won't want to be distracted from by playing a video at the same time) is Sandy going to cream Llano? Your treating this as if I only have a single concern in single-threaded performance, but that's just not the case.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    Reply fail.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    If the performance of an integrated GPU is important to you then Llano may be the clear winner. If the video drivers are important to you then Llano may be the clear winner. I’ll definitely concede those points.

    • TheEmrys
    • 12 years ago

    multitasking and multithreading are different. I would be more interested if they used a multithreaded game rather than something as arbitrary as watching a movie while playing a game.

    • OneArmedScissor
    • 12 years ago

    They may have disabled all of the power saving features. Some “enthusiast” sites do that even when testing laptop battery life, believe it or not.

    There is no way in hell they’re making a new laptop platform that idles at 29w, so it doesn’t really tell you much other than that they should be comparable.

    • OneArmedScissor
    • 12 years ago

    “That my friends was approximately 61 seconds of your life, you will never get back.” I don’t want it back!

    For the record, I don’t think AMD forgot that people use computers for work, and potentially very time consuming work that depends on the CPU. That’s what the Opteron X12s are for, and then Bulldozer.

    Llano has nothing to do with that. It’s the only mainstream PC-oriented CPU there’s been in a long time, so they’re going to make a very big point of that.

    • sweatshopking
    • 12 years ago

    that’s a possibility.

    • provoko
    • 12 years ago

    If anything, this was impressive.

    • sweatshopking
    • 12 years ago

    I think the important thing is that it does run the applications that i want better performance in better. between knowing that i’m going to have proper drivers, and the additional power of the GPU, i’m not sure the faster single threaded performance is a trade worth making. For my uses, Thuban is fast enough. It does what I need it to do, and in a relatively short time. Sandy bridge might be faster, but i’m not sure I’d actually care. I want a faster GPU, MUCH more than a faster cpu.

    • shank15217
    • 12 years ago

    If single threaded performance is that important to you then why would you care for a quad core? Maybe what you want is a higher clocked dual core with HT, its available. Llano has certainly improved on the uncore elements, it would surprise me greatly if AMD didn’t redesign the memory controller. Also Llano will should have a more sophisticated turbo clock feature than Thuban so that may address some of your single threaded performance concerns. Finally, Llano’s GPU is part of the processor just like AVX is part of Sandy Bridge. I think its legitimate to run OpenCL / Stream benchmarks on Llano vs Sandy Bridge where Llano would far out pace Sandy Bridge. I don’t think people really get how big a deal it is to have a 480 shader GPU core on the same die as a CPU, too bad AMD doesn’t support CUDA or these would be in all over the place, not just desktops.

    • flip-mode
    • 12 years ago

    This seems misleading to me in a couple of ways:
    1. Playing a game and watching a video at the same time? Maybe that happens more often than I think, but if it does then my response is that those people need to fine more entertaining video games.
    2. The load power consumption is nice, but AMD has always been competitive with load power consumption. What AMD has long needed to improve is idle power consumption.

    So it appears that Llano will be a multi-tasking monster. That might excite some uber geeks, but realistically speaking that level of multi-tasking will only be useful to a vanishingly small percentage of desktop / office users.

    What isn’t mentioned and what AMD will almost certainly continue to lag in is single threaded performance. If Llano only lags by a little then that’ll be no big deal, but if Llano doesn’t improve on the single threaded performance of current Thuban / Deneb then that will continue to be a sore point. Single threaded performance is still extremely important. I’d take a quad core with higher single threaded performance over a quad core with higher multi-tasking performance for the case of my own personal desktop. I wonder how things compare in multi-threaded multi-tasking as opposed to single-threaded multi-tasking… will Sandy Bridge run a bunch of single threaded apps better while Llano will run a bunch of multi-threaded apps better?

    And then there’s Bulldozer.

    • shank15217
    • 12 years ago

    Probably clocked the same but certainly lower bandwidth to the gpu.

    • shank15217
    • 12 years ago

    Maybe you should look up the concept of a benchmark before making such an ignorant comment? Since when were benchmarks required to have realistic workloads?

    • khands
    • 12 years ago

    Manufacturer comparisons are always full of crock, I’ll wait for 3rd party reviews like our beloved techreport thank you very much.

    • idgarad
    • 12 years ago

    Let’s be honest, starting a post … on the Internet even, with the phrase ‘Let’s be Honest’ is in context, implies that most people are not honest and is ripe for ridicule.

    I for one reject this premise:

    Let’s be dishonest and make shit up, it is tradition on the Internet. AMD if going to WTFPWN Intel with their new architecture! AMD is going to drug and abduct a hot stripper named Bambie and train her in a secret government facility and augment her with cybernetics. Then they will lose control of her but accidentally implant a sex bot chip in her before she goes rogue. She will spend 4 seasons..err.. years kicking ass and banging anything marginally attractive, male or female. She will then infiltrate Intel, seducing then killing key engineers. Then she will be discovered but blame Intel for her condition. While the trial drags on and after banging 3/8ths of the entire NFL organization she will appropriate a nuke, start world war 7, and have her cake AND EAT it while dancing on Chuck Norris’ raped and dead body because she is just that EVIL! Then she’ll blow up the sun.

    That my friends was approximately 61 seconds of your life, you will never get back. Yes this post had no purpose, much like AMD’s test. Quite honestly I think AMD forgets that people do other shit on computers then play games. I have permutation linear regressions and ARIMA data modelling I have to run that currently takes about 12 hours to run on quad-Intel at 3.0 GHz. Dear AMD, why when I run the single thread version for 1 cycle on an Intel processor It takes 4 hours but on an AMD at the same GHz it take 6? Or how about taking 5 years worth of hourly metrics and loading into Excel then doing a macro that builds a series of array formulas that on an Intel takes 5 minutes and on AMD at the same GHz take 6?

    I mean I work on my computer and if I can take the re-calculation time from 5 minutes to 2 that frees up nearly an hour out of my day. AMD just has never gotten that idea that practical > techno-babble. Why not just go with A8-Bronze, A8-Silver, A8-Gold, A8-Platinum and be done with it.

    I am all for game optimizations but “There is other shit people do besides try to Pwn n00bz and get their rank from 3 to 1.”

    And for the benchmarkers out there (yes you Tech Report and Toms) go out and download R (a statistical language) or grab some python and hire a statistical consultant to just whip up a really big but pointless statistical regression with about 6-10 regressors and have it run a permutation on those regressors. They can take DAYS to run and can really beat the hell out of a processor then report the number of hours the job took to run. Pure number crunching there.

    And for God’s sake AMD your chip set keeps making me want to say Leno as in Jay Leno…

    I’m fucking cranky, haven’t had my first cup of coffee…. what the hell were we talking about?

    • dpaus
    • 12 years ago

    Did anyone catch/infer the clock speed of the Llano? Any hint that it too is a 2.0 GHz part?

    • vipw
    • 12 years ago

    When was the last time you were waiting for excel calculations to complete, so you decided to play a 3d game and watch a movie (at the same time).

    Is there any point to the demo? All I take away from it it, is tha the only way to make Llano look better than Sandybridge is to have a 3d game running in the background.

    • codedivine
    • 12 years ago

    They labelled the GPU as Radeon 6620M. Given that other GPUs in the 6600 mobile lineup are 480 shader processor units, I guess this pretty much confirms 480 shaders for Llano quad-core variants. On the other hand, 6620M means they estimate it be lower performance than 6630M, which runs at 485MHz (I think), so maybe its clocked even lower or maybe the shared memory bandwidth between CPU/GPU is the reason they think it will perform lower.

    • Fursdon
    • 12 years ago

    Just a complete shot in the dark, but the name ‘A8-3510MX’ sounds more like an engineering name than the final product name.

    Though if they still simply shorten the name down to a series designator “AMD A-Series APU”, with no brand name, argeed that things get messy. It’ll be time-consuming for tech-folk to keep up with the series, and next to impossible for the general public. You wonder how fast it’ll take them to switch gears with naming if the backlash against it is strong enough.

    It seems they’re trying to out-do Intel, who has a blender of i-number products that are all over the place. Whether it’s features or series, determining what exactly a processor has and does not have is a pain.

    • Goty
    • 12 years ago

    I’m in the same boat. My HTPC was made out of scrap desktop components. I’m running a Phenom II X3 and a Radeon 4670, so Llano might actually be an improvement in all areas.

    • nico1982
    • 12 years ago

    Almost on the same boat. I kept postponing the upgrade of the “muletto” (home browsing/fileserver/office machine) from a 4050e to an Athlon X4 because of Llano seems a better option on paper, even if it requires new mobo and memory.

    • Althernai
    • 12 years ago

    These manufacturer-provided tests are always amusing. Check out the idle power consumption at 0:38-0:39 — looks like the Sandy Bridge laptop is using 33.8 watts and Llano a little bit less (29 watts). This is a little curious in light of the fact that [url=https://techreport.com/articles.x/20294/8<]Sandy Bridge gets 6 hours of web browsing time[/url<] with a 71Wh battery (and that's with a bigger display). AMD did something tricky here... I wonder if the 2630QM frequency was locked to 2.0GHz.

    • sonofsanta
    • 12 years ago

    Let’s be honest, that new processor name is in no way an improvement over using brand names and is a step back.

    I don’t see why brand names are so bad. For tech geeks, we can translate the relevant parts of the name anyway. For non-tech folk, brand name is an easy selling point. Nearly every advert I see in newspapers for PC stores, they just list laptops etc. with “Intel Pentium” or “Athlon” but never mention the specs, so brand name is genuinely the only thing to go on. Seeing the name “A8-3510MX” is more likely to scare consumers away than anything, and that’s the segment of the market AMD has always traded in.

    • JustAnEngineer
    • 12 years ago

    I’m looking forward to desktop Llano options in the 2nd quarter. I plan to replace my HTPC.

    • Bensam123
    • 12 years ago

    AMD might actually make a comeback? :O

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