Steve Jobs dazzles developers with new OSes, iCloud

Wow. I’ve been enjoying Apple keynotes for the better part of the last decade (hey, Steve Jobs is quite the showman), and today’s Worldwide Developers Conference might have been the most densely packed of them all. I followed it via Engadget’s liveblog. Over two long hours, Apple executives unveiled new feature after new feature, scarcely stopping for a breather.

It all started with Lion, the next Mac OS X release, which will be hitting the Mac App Store next month for the surprisingly low price of $29.99. (One purchase, by the way, will be good for all of your personal Macs.) Lion has been demoed before, so Phil Schiller walking everyone through the new features wasn’t too terribly enthralling. Still, the highlights are worth pointing out. There’s Mission Control for revamped window management, new multi-touch functionality that mirrors iOS, full-screen app support, an iOS-ifed Mail application, better App Store integration, AirDrop for no-brainer file sharing, and Resume and Auto-save, for those of us too lazy to save documents or set up their workspace after every reboot. Not bad for 30 bucks.

More exciting was iOS 5, which will roll onto iPads, iPhones (3GS and later), and iPod touch devices (third-gen or later) some time this fall. As expected, iOS will herald a magical and revolutionary way to deal with notifications: Notification Center, which you might recognize as a complete carbon copy of the Android notification panel, complete with a "swipe down from the top of the screen to open" gesture. Equally magical and revolutionary will be iMessage, Apple’s attempt at a BlackBerry Messenger-style app for owners of iOS devices.

Other iOS 5 perks will include Twitter integration, a Reminders app to keep track of your to-do lists, an improved Mail app, and my favorite, an easier-to-access Camera app. You’ll be able to open the Camera app right from the lock screen, and the "volume up" hardware button will double as a shutter release. That ought to make impromptu, spur-of-the-moment photography much less cumbersome—you know, kind of like how it was with my old Nokia five years ago. iPad users should be happy to see tabs in Safari, plus a new split/thumb keyboard input method that’ll let you type without having to set the device down somewhere. Last, but not least, new iOS devices will no longer need to be activated through a Mac or PC, and future iOS updates will be delivered over the air. Bye bye, iTunes.

That last perk plays right into Apple’s third big announcement, iCloud, which Steve Jobs heralded as a means to make the cloud, not a specific computer or device, the "center of your digital life." iCloud will be a means to shove MobileMe under the rug, too, because that service will be disappearing when iCloud goes live alongside iOS this fall.

iCloud will be free of charge and free of ads. It will sync purchases (app, books, and music), personal documents (via Pages, Numbers, and Keynote), photos, and preferences across iOS and Mac OS devices. For example, a user will be able to see all of his purchased songs from his iPhone and download ones that aren’t stored locally. New photos will be automatically propagated across all of one’s iDevices, and Apple will keep a user’s last 1,000 pictures up in the cloud, provided they’re stored in albums. (Unsorted photos will only be kept for 30 days unless the user puts them on a Mac or PC, apparently.) Engadget says Apple will be making iCloud APIs available to developers, so we may see third-party software take advantage of the functionality. Interesting.

Not even a packed-to-the-gills Apple keynote like this one was complete without a "one more thing" from Jobs. Today, that "one more thing" was iTunes Match, a direct answer to Amazon’s Cloud Drive and Google Music. For $24.99 a year, iTunes Match will give users access to 256Kbps, DRM-free, AAC versions of songs they’ve ripped themselves (or pirated, presumably) on iTunes, with apparently no quantity limit. Songs obtained through iTunes Match will be usable across devices through iCloud, just like regular purchased songs. No uploading will be involved unless iTunes Match can’t find iTunes versions of the user’s songs.

Not everybody wants to pay for cloud access to their own music, mind you, but $24.99 a year for unlimited music with little or no uploading beats the heck out of the competition. To get, say, 40GB of music onto Cloud Drive, you’d have to shell out $50 a year and manually upload all of those songs.

As someone who owns a MacBook and an iPhone, I have to say I’m pretty excited about these latest developments. iOS is badly in need of an overhaul to keep up with the Joneses, and iOS 5 might just do the trick. iCloud ought to simplify my music management, too—while Scott doesn’t care for the idea, I don’t mind shelling out $25 a year (that’s $2 a month, for crying out loud) to rest easy knowing I can get to my songs from anywhere. It’s a matter of convenience, I suppose. Finally, OS X 10.7 Lion seems like an absolute no-brainer at $29.99. I just hope I can save it onto a thumb drive, because at 4GB, it won’t exactly be a small download.

Comments closed
    • Krogoth
    • 8 years ago

    iCloud = Trusted computing with a more “public friendly” facade. Say good-bye to “personal” in PC.

    BTW, tablets/smartphones aren’t replacing desktops they are just complementing them. You still a stationary platform to do any real work. Sorry, but a tablet isn’t suited to handle spreadsheets, diagrams, charts, taxes, etc.

    • Farting Bob
    • 8 years ago

    Concerning Lion: “full-screen app support”

    Wait, current version of OSX cant fullscreen a program? WTF?

    • dashbarron
    • 8 years ago

    I thought Apple was in court last week trying to sue for things other mobile competitors have in their products that resemble Apple’s products….

    • entropy13
    • 8 years ago

    [url<]http://i.imgur.com/KdC14.png[/url<]

      • NeelyCam
      • 8 years ago

      That’s disgusting. Clearly Apple is copying other people’s ideas…

      EDIT: … without giving credit (or cash) to the original inventor.

    • albundy
    • 8 years ago

    Its a good thing that AT&T and Verizon will all now ditch their pay per MB data plan and offer unlimited service to accommodate this….oh wait….

    • WaltC
    • 8 years ago

    [quote<]It all started with Lion, the next Mac OS X release, which will be hitting the Mac App Store next month for the surprisingly low price of $29.99. (One purchase, by the way, will be good for all of your personal Macs.)[/quote<] Wow...I wonder what the total cost of ownership of OS X would be if one tallied it up from the very first version of even just x86 OS X to ship...! It would be considerable, I should think. Apple is more interested in selling its Macs than it is in selling OS X, certainly, and the fact that OS X is tied exclusively to Apple-branded Mac hardware means that in order to run a copy of OS X you have to have purchased a Mac from Apple before you can do so. So, sure, you can take one copy of OS X and run it on your five Macs at home--but you had to buy the five Macs from Apple first--that's the catch...!...;) Why is it that few people seem to understand the significance of this? Just not deep thinkers...? What? OTOH, you can buy the family pack from Microsoft for Win7 and install it to three machines at home for $150 ($50 ea), but you aren't required to buy anything else from Microsoft for the privilege of doing so. Yea, you have to buy the machines to run the OS on, but unlike with Apple, [i<]you don't have to buy them from Microsoft[/i<]...;) WinXP, for instance, was directly supported by Microsoft for > 7 years and after buying the OS in 2001 you never had to pay a penny more for those seven years of updates--never had to pay $29.99 even once. This is not hard to understand. Why do people constantly glorify the inferior deals Apple brings to market? I really don't get it. I have a lot of respect for Steve Jobs, in some areas, and am prone to be more sympathetic because of his obvious illness today--but still I wonder at those web sites that gush enthusiastically about the things Jobs says but decline to run a picture of Jobs while he's saying it. I guess the RDF runs so deep that some people can believe he isn't dying so long as they don't have to look at him. I think that is sad. Jobs doesn't mind appearing in public, present appearance notwithstanding--a web site quoting him should not be afraid of posting his image from that event, it seems to me. But...how can Jobs believe we are in a "post-PC" era when Apple is still generating about one third of its income from selling PCs (nostalgically called "Macs")...? How can the RDF run so deep that people fail to see this blatant contradiction, too? Not only that, but it is a slam dunk that Apple's Cloud service will certainly be running on PCs and not iPads, isn't it? Hey, when Apple announces it is running its cloud from ARMed iPads and it is discontinuing the Mac because we are in a "post-PC era"...then I'll at least believe that this is something Apple truly actually thinks and believes, but until that day all of this rhetoric looks to me like more of the same-old, same-old Apple RDF public relations BS that only people with sub-par IQ's can fully appreciate...;) Apple: I'll pass.

      • Corrado
      • 8 years ago

      I think he means Post-PC in the fact that you don’t need a PC to do the things that most people do on a PC anymore. 5 years ago, how did you manipulate a digital photo without a PC? You couldn’t. How do you send an email without a PC? You couldn’t. How did you browse the web without a PC? You couldn’t. How did you manage your music collection without a PC? You couldn’t.

      Now, you can do all those things without ever going to your PC. Theres still things that you need a PC for, yes, but those things are quickly falling out of the list of things the average person does on a PC.

        • WaltC
        • 8 years ago

        Still, guy, you know and I know that an iPad is nothing except an overpriced, underpowered, touch-screen driven pc….;) It processes data in the exact same way that a “pc” processes it. Stating that an iPad is a “post-pc” product is as superficial a statement as any Apple representative has ever made–but Apple has always been the master of the superficial distinction (Hence the appellation “RDF” and so on, appellations that have stuck with Apple for a long time, etc.)

        Again, when Apple ceases Mac production I’ll believe that Apple, at least, thinks we’ve moved into the “post-PC” era just because people can buy tablet PCs with touch-screen interfaces. You and I both know that anyone else making such a statement would be laughed off the stage.

          • Corrado
          • 8 years ago

          I guess it all boils down to the fact that the ‘PC’ is an evolving term. For most of its life, the PC was a desktop, monitor and keyboard and mouse. By that definition, using primarily laptops means we’re ‘post pc’. Even our game consoles are ‘personal computers’ now. If everyone used tablets, they’d be PCs.

            • PeterD
            • 8 years ago

            The buzz isn’t in the pc anymore.
            I remember that time when it didn’t matter what the economy did, pc’s always sold very good and had double digit grow numbers.
            Nowadays, if there’s a dip in the economy, there’s a dip in pc sales. The started after 2000.

            • WaltC
            • 8 years ago

            “The buzz” is kind of irrelevant when it comes to sales. Remember that the non-buzzing PC will sell ~400M x86 notebooks and desktops this year, while “the buzz” iPads for instance, will peak at ~5%-6% of that volume.

            Buzz products are typically fads and short lived, while mainstream products become entrenched and continue to grow in maturing markets. The thing about Apple that I find amusing is that it is generally outsold by its competitors 20-1 in every computer category there is, and yet it receives probably 80% of the publicity, or “the buzz” as you put it. Object lesson: “buzz” does not equal sales volume.

          • MathMan
          • 8 years ago

          Yes, and a PC is nothing more than a small mainframe.

            • WaltC
            • 8 years ago

            Sigh…I suppose that means that an iPad is nothing more than a large pocket calculator? Simpleton descriptions are wonderful, aren’t they?…;)

      • Metalianman
      • 8 years ago

      First of all, you’re talking about Windows XP, which was designed in a way that 64bit wasn’t an option, making me be one of the first people to buy Vista just for that reason, which had the resulting effect of me running to buy windows 7 so I can have files easily transferred over my network and a bit better memory management. All and all, for a brand new computer in late 2005 I had to buy three different operating systems from Microsoft to get the best out of it. Yes, sure when I retired that computer late last year I used the same Windows 7 licence for my new rig, but still we’re talking about a considerable amount of money!

      But let’s move on beyond that, to the whole thing about Steve Jobs dying… What the hell?!? As if he’s the centre of universe, as if dying or not changes the actual product he’s selling and presenting, it really doesn’t mate. If there’s a picture of him presenting the thing or not still doesn’t change the product, if anything it moves the spotlight directly to the product as it should be done in the first place, he didn’t make the product, he’s just presenting it!

      And finally to the “post-pc” matter. What exactly is a post-pc device and what a pc? An iPad 2 can do much more than a very good PC could 10 years ago and in a much more convenient way as well. Overpriced and underpowered? Please do explain to me how is that, I have been desperately looking for a device that will be just as good but they all come up short for some reason! If you don’t have a purpose for it, doesn’t mean that it’s the same for everybody else.

      Post-PC is a device in which you can do trivial procedures you would otherwise do on a PC, with the benefit of the portability and interface of a non-PC equivalent. Arguably modern mobile devices tend to be much closer to PCs than they used to be, non-the-less the difference is still quite obvious. Nobody said that PC is dead, it’s just not the main focus any-more, that doesn’t mean that a company which has it’s main profits from post-pc products should abandon the PC industry all together! And about that thing, “when Apple announces it is running its could from ARMed iPads” where the hell did that come from and how it relates to PCs?!

      By no means I’m saying that Apple is the best or every move is right. Personally I find it easier to work on Linux than on Mac or Windows, but I still have to use all three of them. I prefer PC over “Macs” for my Desktop but I prefer my MacBook over any laptop I’ve tried. I have tried quite a few phones but nothing comes as handy to me as my iPhone and although I want a tablet for the family living room, I haven’t bought an iPad yet just to see what the competition is up to.

      You always go with what it works for you, and concluding that everything in the latest keynote was a bunch of BS that only people with sub-par IQ’s can fully appreciate is as if saying that I deleted all the documents from my drive when in reality I only deleted the documents folder! Get a grip and realise that it’s one thing saying your opinion and another to criticise something that no single person can completely understand!

        • WaltC
        • 8 years ago

        [quote<]First of all, you're talking about Windows XP...[/quote<] Besides the fact that I guess you don't recall Intel's first Core processors being exclusively 32-bits, and the way Intel fought against bringing 64-bits to the desktop for at least a couple of years before folding its losing Itanium hand, I was merely using WinXP as one of many examples. The fact is that when you buy a Microsoft OS you do not have to spend a dime on the years of updates and upgrades Microsoft provides for that OS. Whether the period is seven years or whether it's three years, the principle applies. And here I'm just talking about the span of time between major OS revisions--I'm not mentioning the total of support time each given OS receives--which extends their lifespan of gratis updates years and years beyond that, even. [quote<]But let's move on beyond that, to the whole thing about Steve Jobs dying... What the hell?!?[/quote<] The dying part was ancillary to the part about him being *quoted* numerous times in the article--sans a picture of him. Like it or not, for some people, if Steve Jobs says it, they buy it, hook, line, and sinker. Most sites that quoted him from the presentation did indeed include a picture of him at the event--and if Jobs minded that he wouldn't appear at all in public, would he? It was a minor omission that I thought was odd--this article gushed almost as much about Jobs as it did the Apple products Jobs was hawking. A picture of Jobs hawking Apple's wares would have been in better taste, imo, as well as more informative. [quote<]An iPad 2 can do much more than a very good PC could 10 years ago and in a much more convenient way as well.[/quote<] OK, so today a netbook can do much more than a very good PC could 10 years ago, and some netbooks can run circles around the iPad 2 in certain areas, and are far more functional. By your logic, then, we must already be in a "post iPad" era, too...;) Look, like it or not, an iPad1/2 is *nothing* except an underpowered, overpriced, PC (ARM cpu) with a touch-screen driven interface. That's it. That's all she wrote. The rest of what [i<]you apparently think it is[/i<] seems like nothing but fantasy to me, sorry. [quote<]And about that thing, "when Apple announces it is running its could from ARMed iPads" where the hell did that come from and how it relates to PCs?![/quote<] Because--gee, and it's weird I have to actually *explain this remark*--it takes "PCs" to run the iCloud, don't ya' know--as iPads are far, far too anemic to do it. So, if Apple's newly announced iCloud depends on PCs to function, and Apple itself is still doing 1/3 of its business selling the PCs it calls "Macs," not to mention that Apple sells a ton more Macs than it does iPads1/2, then--no--there is no evidence whatsoever to even suggest that Apple itself actually believes we are in a "post PC" era....;) Can't you recognize marketing hyperbole when you hear it? Sure--Macbooks are fine notebook PCs, aren't they? It's for certain that Macbooks are not iPads, isn't it? I didn't say that "everything" in the keynote was BS--just the points I specifically covered, as I recall. Really, and truly, this stuff about the iPad being a "post PC" product is really the sort of loony-esque marketing that people have come to expect from Apple--and from Jobs in particular. The point I took umbrage with originally in the article was the attempt that Cyril made to spin Apple charging $29.99 for annual/semiannual OS X update/upgrade releases into something positive, along with the fact he seemed to want to deliberately omit the fact that although you can run your copy of OS X on as many Macs as you own--Apple requires you to *first* purchase an Apple Mac as the OS X hardware dongle, *before* Apple allows you to do so. I was pointing out what should be obvious: Apple charges its users far more to buy and run OS X than Microsoft charges its users to buy and run Windows. Please don't tell me that I have to explain that *again*--as I will merely believe you are wearing RDF blinders that make you deliberately obtuse...;)

          • Corrado
          • 8 years ago

          I don’t think a rackmount server or a blade server is necessarily a PC. There’s nothing personal about it. Is a Ford Ranger not a truck? Do you say ‘I’ll call it a truck when Conway Trucking replaces all of their rigs with small 4 cylinder mini trucks!’. No, its just a different KIND of truck that fits the needs of millions of people out there that don’t NEED a big huge thing to accomplish what they do. Everything has its place, and guess what, you’re far more likely to get trashed on here if you drive a big huge V8 SUV or truck and don’t fully utilize it to tow or haul big loads frequently. But at the same time, we laud the guys that have big huge 6 core electricity burning CPUs and have tri-SLI cpus that essentially just benchmark them or to say ‘Yeah, this is what I have’. Whats wrong with ‘right sizing’ our computing needs and capabilities while also extending the portability of them and the energy efficiency of them? If an iPad fits the needs of 10 million people and they are satisfied with an iPad to do all of their computing needs, who are you to tell them that they are wrong and should instead use more electricity and take up more space in their house to DO THE EXACT SAME THING THEY WOULD DO ANYWAYS.

          If someone says ‘I want a car to drive me from here to work. All I need to do is drive myself, and maybe once in a while 1 other person on exclusively highways while getting the best gas mileage possible’ you wouldn’t recommend that they even get something like a Toyota Camry because you can get something smaller and more fuel efficient that fits their needs better.

          Likewise when someone says ‘I want a device that is simple to use for me to read the news, get my email, use facebook, chat and play some games maybe while being as compact and energy efficient as possible that doesn’t keep me tethered to a desk and a chair’, why is the iPad not a valid choice for that? A netbook makes a bunch of compromises just like the iPad does, and its usually larger and weighs more and uses more power, while generally having a lower quality of build and a worse screen. Sure, it can ‘do more’. More that a person isn’t going to do anyways. I’d rather have my device do 7 items VERY well than 15 items in a subpar manner.

      • Hattig
      • 8 years ago

      Windows XP was an outlier in terms of product life, if Microsoft hadn’t messed up you would have bought an update in 2004/2005 and we’d be using Windows 8 today, not Windows 7. The cadence for Windows is around three years, the cadence for Mac OS X is around 2 years at the moment.

      I also don’t think it is a stretch to see a household with multiple Macs these days, especially a household with teenage children or students (they’ll come home and get Lion over the holidays). The three year old hand-me-down laptop, the new laptop, the student laptop, a desktop iMac in the den. Damn cheap OS upgrade there. In the end $29 is cheap even for a single machine, and far cheaper than Windows 7 (especially in the UK).

      • KoolAidMan
      • 8 years ago

      The longest I’ve had any computer was a G4 Mac tower for video editing. It came preloaded with OS X 10.2 and I had it from 2002 through 2007. The cost of upgrades for two OS X upgrades over five years (10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4) was $260. So far I have paid for a single $30 upgrade with one of my current Macs, a machine that went from 10.5 to 10.6. My current Macs all came with 10.6 preloaded and I’ll be paying $30 to upgrade them to Lion.

      Comparing this with the cost of both Vista and Windows 7 in only about two years, I would say that these are fair prices we are talking about. Then again, Apple is primarily a hardware company, not a software company like Microsoft which depends on Windows and Office licenses for 80% of their income.

      Fortunately a friend of mine works at Microsoft. I haven’t anything close to normal for any copy of Windows since XP, so I don’t get hit with retail or even OEM prices like everyone else. 🙂

      • burntham77
      • 8 years ago

      “And that’s the gag!”

      • A_Pickle
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]Why do people constantly glorify the inferior deals Apple brings to market?[/quote<] I don't think all of Apple's deals are inferior. The iPad, though, [i<]god[/i<]. That people are flocking in droves to pick one of these up just drives me up a wall.

    • canoli
    • 8 years ago

    this is all well and good if you’re a Mac-only user – as Cyril says iCloud “will be free and free of ads.” But of course that’s only true for your iTunes-purchased songs, etc. According to the Times article I read it’ll be $25 a year for songs you didn’t purchase through iTunes. The article didn’t make it clear whether that was $25 per song (which I can’t believe) or $25 per x-amount of MB/GB or what.

    So – hooray for Apple. I guess. But they’re pushing this iCloud thing like it’s the “end of the PC-centered universe” and I don’t think it is. For Apple users, maybe. For the rest of us it’s just more proprietary technology…zzzzzzz…

      • Corrado
      • 8 years ago

      Its $25. Period. Flat fee per year. You also get to download all those songs from iTunes. Speculation is that its a pretty good way to launder your Yarrrrrrrr’d music. I know people say that the RIAA would never go for that, but they’ll see the money from Apple, or they’d see nothing at all. Maybe they finally would rather see $10 for your music collection vs $0.

        • mutarasector
        • 8 years ago

        … Who is to say Apple may not be ‘coerced’ into providing the RIAA some sort of ‘fingerprinting’ on that ‘yarrrrrrr’d’ music? Or worse yet, Apple isn’t coerced at all, but instead plays ‘compadre’ in such a move willingly?

          • Corrado
          • 8 years ago

          If it matches something in iTunes, you can simply delete your yarrr’d copy and download a ‘legit’ copy from iTunes. If you upload it yourself, that means its not in Apple’s catalog… which generally means its not an RIAA member label/publisher/group/band/whatever.

      • A_Pickle
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]For the rest of us it's just more proprietary technology...zzzzzzz...[/quote<] ...proprietary technology that allows assimilated Mac users the ability to do what I've been doing with my PC, Windows Mobile device, and LogMeIn Hamachi for years now.

    • moog
    • 8 years ago

    [url<]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stillfrail-Jobs-appears-to-apf-3493615144.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=3&asset=&ccode=[/url<] I don't think Jobs has much time left. I'm not hopeful he'll live until the Lion release even. My father looked like that when he was in palliative care a week before he died from liver cancer. Btw, our Mango update only had over 500+ features... (probably ignored by TR) but I want to call it out because Apple followed our lead here, we delivered a feature packed release first!

    • Hattig
    • 8 years ago

    Lion looks like a no-brainer purchase for $29, especially with the persistent versioning, application persistence over shutdowns, full screen app APIs (although I’m not too bothered by the app launcher overlay), screen and window management improvements, and updates to core applications. I wonder what this will do to Windows 8 upgrade pricing, as comparisons will inevitably be made.

    iCloud for free is also damn useful.

    As for the music matching service – for $25 a year you get your music library persisted into the cloud with minimal upload and hassle. That’s a lot cheaper than the electricity costs of running your own home server (especially in the UK, where electricity costs are higher than the US), even a reasonably low power server, and that’s before the hassle of setting it up, the loss of redundancy, the reliance on your home internet connection, the slow upload speed, etc. The downside is reliance on Apple, and presumably this service being US only for a while because contracts need to be worked out elsewhere first.

      • moog
      • 8 years ago

      There will also be piracy lawsuits in the near future.

        • Corrado
        • 8 years ago

        See my other post. Maybe the RIAA is resigned to take the $10 or whatever they get from that $25 instead of getting $0.

    • pedro
    • 8 years ago

    Silly question I know, but how does one re-install OS X 10.7?

      • KoolAidMan
      • 8 years ago

      I read that it creates a small restore/repair volume in case you want to reinstall the OS. It apparently also has a web browser on it.

      • pedro
      • 8 years ago

      Anyone have any clues here?

        • adisor19
        • 8 years ago

        At least 2 ways :

        -second partition on the HD
        -option to restore that 4GB image on a USB or FW drive and boot with it

        Adi

          • pedro
          • 8 years ago

          Sounds good cheers.

      • ronch
      • 8 years ago

      Apparently, OS X is a very stable, reliable and incorruptible OS that one never finds the necessity to reinstall the OS, ever, unlike all OSes not bearing the Apple logo, the logo of choice at Starbucks.

    • DancinJack
    • 8 years ago

    Is there a video of the keynote yet?

      • Corrado
      • 8 years ago

      Yeah its on Apple’s site.

    • derFunkenstein
    • 8 years ago

    Also of note was that Jobs (edit: or maybe it was Schiller) referred to all this noting that we live in a “post-PC world”, according to the MacRumors Live feed. That’s why they’re adding on-device activation to the iPhone and iPad as part of iOS5 – he says at least some people want it to be their only device.

    I think he *might* be nuts.

      • End User
      • 8 years ago

      For many people their smartphone/tablet is their only device. This trend will continue to gain momentum. This is the reality facing PC manufacturers.

        • BobbinThreadbare
        • 8 years ago

        Define “many people”

          • srilumpa
          • 8 years ago

          2 persons or more.

        • Corrado
        • 8 years ago

        I don’t think many people have it as their ONLY device. I just think that people are not using their PC to waste time like they used to. You’re not tethered to a desk and chair like you used to be. People still have laptops, but rather than the laptop in bed or on the couch, they use their smartphone/tablet. This probably takes up 90+% of their regular usage. Looking up random info on the internet, and emailing and facebook.

    • NeelyCam
    • 8 years ago

    [quote<]Not everybody wants to pay for cloud access to their own music, mind you, but $24.99 a year for unlimited music with little or no uploading beats the heck out of the competition. To get, say, 40GB of music onto Cloud Drive, you'd have to shell out $50 a year and manually upload all of those songs.[/quote<] I prefer getting a microSD card, copying my music into it, and putting it into my Atrix. Benefits: 1) No annual fees. 2) "Upload" is fast 3) I don't have to have my "4G" radio running nonstop (and eating the battery) while listening to music 4) I don't have to go over my 200MB/mo data plan while listening to music 5) I can listen to music while in an airplane

      • derFunkenstein
      • 8 years ago

      You don’t HAVE to use it at all. Just sync with your Mac/PC instead.

        • NeelyCam
        • 8 years ago

        Sure… if you bought an iPhone with enough memory. A lack of a microSD slot is a big issue to me with iPhones. I understand, though, why Apple does it (=so they could overcharge for the pre-installed memory).

        I was just saying paying $25/year for this doesn’t make much sense to me when you have local storage.

    • kc77
    • 8 years ago

    [quote<]Not everybody wants to pay for cloud access to their own music, mind you, but $24.99 a year for unlimited music with little or no uploading beats the heck out of the competition. To get, say, 40GB of music onto Cloud Drive, you'd have to shell out $50 a year and manually upload all of those songs."[/quote<] Why not set up a server and use any of the million apps that are out there and stream the music/video or whatever to your phone or whatever without any limitation whatsoever? For a non-technical person yes this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (they don't know any better) ... for someone technical? Hell no.

      • Deanjo
      • 8 years ago

      Because most ISP’s upload speeds suck and running such a server on their network is usually against their terms.

        • kc77
        • 8 years ago

        How much do you think you need to stream a mp3 or mp4? You just need to support your own content (which all ISPs will let you do).

          • Deanjo
          • 8 years ago

          You better read some ISP contracts. Most of them actually DO NOT let you run a streaming service even if it is for your own personal use. Hell most of them don’t even allow running an apache server for a personal website. Again, the [b<]only[/b<] thing that you would upload is your music that iTunes could not find in their collection. If it matches the song to one it has in its collection it gives you their properly tagged, high quality, DRM-free version of it. The downside to streaming also is that you have to be connected all the time and if you do something as simple as hit repeat your chewing up four times the bandwidth which may be a concern for some (downloading from iTunes only has one download on the device because of local storage), with streaming you are not only adding to your data cap on your land connection but you are also using up your cell data limits if you have them).

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]You better read some ISP contracts. Most of them actually DO NOT let you run a streaming service even if it is for your own personal use. [/quote<] Ah no... most of the big ones actually do. That's why there's a cap on your upstream. You don't need 1Mb up for webpages and you certainly don't need it for streaming mp3's. [quote<]Hell most of them don't even allow running an apache server for a personal website.[/quote<] No most of them don't allow you pointing public DNS to their public IP without buying their business package to make their public IP static / yours (sort of). If that truly was the case why would you need access to port forwarding? Hell you couldn't even use torrents as it works on a model which requires the end user to serve data beyond what was needed by TCP. They could completely lock you out of firewall controls if they didn't want you to serve data at all....but they don't. Hell how would you upload data to the cloud and keep it syncd? Sorry the premise of not being able to serve data to yourself isn't going to hold as cloud based services depend on your ability to upload. [quote<]The downside to streaming also is that you have to be connected all the time and if you do something as simple as hit repeat your chewing up four times the bandwidth which may be a concern for some (downloading from iTunes only has one download on the device because of local storage), with streaming you are not only adding to your data cap on your land connection but you are also using up your cell data limits if you have them)[/quote<] Most of the applications cache the data locally (on your phone) to limit the amount of downstream data. For me my plan allows for 3GB down per month which is more than enough for my music listening habits. Also remember those limits apply to any cloud based service.

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]Ah no... most of the big ones actually do. That's why there's a cap on your upstream. You don't need 1Mb up for webpages and you certainly don't need it for streaming mp3's.[/quote<] There are many reasons for a cap on a upstream and none of it really has to do with running servers. The biggest reason is to maintain data quality. Your home modem doesn't have the same transmitting power as the switch down the street serving you. [quote<]No most of them don't allow you pointing public DNS to their public IP without buying their business package to make their public IP static / yours (sort of). If that truly was the case why would you need access to port forwarding? Hell you couldn't even use torrents as it works on a model which requires the end user to serve data beyond what was needed by TCP. They could completely lock you out of firewall controls if they didn't want you to serve data at all....but they don't. Hell how would you upload data to the cloud and keep it syncd? Sorry the premise of not being able to serve data to yourself isn't going to hold as cloud based services depend on your ability to upload. [/quote<] There are many reasons that you need port forwarding such as remote desktop, vpn, etc. Most ISP's offer standard free webhosting for personal pages and run bandwidth management for such items as P2P traffic. In the case of something like bittorrent ISP's even recommend that you set your upload speed to nothing. [quote<]Most of the applications cache the data locally (on your phone) to limit the amount of downstream data. For me my plan allows for 3GB down per month which is more than enough for my music listening habits. Also remember those limits apply to any cloud based service.[/quote<] Caching only holds so much for a very small amount of time. Caching by nature clears older data to replace with new once the cache size limit has been reached or gone passed a certian amount of time.

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]There are many reasons for a cap on a upstream and none of it really has to do with running servers. The biggest reason is to maintain data quality. Your home modem doesn't have the same transmitting power as the switch down the street serving you. [/quote<] Data quality? 1MB up is more than enough for a standard household and isn't going to be saturated by standard web surfing. [quote<] There are many reasons that you need port forwarding such as remote desktop, vpn, etc[/quote<] If you are using VPN, or RDP are you not serving data beyond standard usage to yourself? Yes or no. No contract that I've seen says " VPN and RDP yes... mp3 streams sent through port 1800 no". That's what net neutrality is all about not isolating specific data from any of the others. Hence why people were pissed with Comcast. Remember? [quote<]Caching only holds so much for a very small amount of time. Caching by nature clears older data to replace with new once the cache size limit has been reached or gone passed a certian amount of time.[/quote<] Most phones carry more than enough local storage. Iphones, WP7, and high end Android phones usually come with 16GB which is considerable.

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]Data quality? 1MB up is more than enough for a standard household and isn't going to be saturated by standard web surfing.[/quote<] Yes data quality, attempting to run at too high of upload speeds requires a crapload more of error detection and the QoS suffers for the person trying to do the upload. [quote<]If you are using VPN, or RDP are you not serving data beyond standard usage to yourself? Yes or no. No contract that I've seen says " VPN and RDP yes... mp3 streams sent through port 1800 no". That's what net neutrality is all about not isolating specific data from any of the others. Hence why people were pissed with Comcast. Remember?[/quote<] That is not what net neutrality is about. Net neutrality is about limiting access or speeds to a competitor as to push you towards their own service. Eg Verizon limits the amount of bandwith that Netflix can use and charges for overages should you choose to use Netflix but on the other hand they do not limit or charge extra for services offered by Amazon video on demand. That is what net neutrality is about. As far as not seeing clauses in the Terms of Service check this out. It is a really standard clause among ISP's. [quote<]You must ensure that your activity while using the Services does not improperly restrict, inhibit or degrade any other customer’s use of the Services, nor represent (in the sole judgment of Shaw) an unusually large burden on the network itself, such as, but not limited to, peer to peer file sharing programs, [b<]serving streaming video or audio[/b<], mail, http, ftp, irc, dhcp servers, and multi-user interactive forums. [/quote<] [quote<]Most phones carry more than enough local storage. Iphones, WP7, and high end Android phones usually come with 16GB which is considerable.[/quote<] Cache values, especially on portable devices are handled by their player applications and rarely exceed a maximum setting of a few megabytes. There is no point to streaming something if you have to cache anything more and might as well just download it in the first place.

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            uh huh I’m just going to let you go and say what you feel you need to say. None of this applies to me… only to you…. how does it feel when your ability is limited to what Job’s says you can do with what’s out there?

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            It doesn’t limit me at all, in fact it increases the options I have available. Apples offering has in no way impeded setting up a system such as yours. It is just the simple fact that it is not worth it dollar wise using a setup as you suggested.

            And because something doesn’t apply to you doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply to others technically inclined or not as not everybody has the same situation as you do.

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            Please look up ROI over time…. thanks.

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            The ROI over time is greatly in favor of the cloud base service. $25 a year vs $50+ a year in power, backup costs, maintenance of hardware not to mention what your personal time is worth.

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            …and access is coverage dependent unless you’re WiFi hot-spotting your way.

      • deathBOB
      • 8 years ago

      When did they start selling servers for $25?

        • kc77
        • 8 years ago

        As I said for someone technical this isn’t an issue. Who here doesn’t have an old P4 or Athlon just sitting around collecting dust? I’ve got tons of hard drives / MB’s etc collecting dust so when I find a need for one I put it to use.

          • Deanjo
          • 8 years ago

          Ya and also chew up a crap load of electricity waiting to be accessed. Those old P4’s were not very power efficient you know.

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            So do 30″ monitors, Extreme edition i7’s, etc. This is why I’m making the distinction between technical users … US and everyone else.

            • DrCR
            • 8 years ago

            Undervolting/Underclocking is your friend.

          • Corrado
          • 8 years ago

          How many people do you really think are geek enough to do this vs the millions and millions that would rather just pay $25 and have it done automatically?

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            Remember I didn’t say it didn’t have a market. However, if you are coming to this site I would say at least half would be technical enough to do it and pretty quickly.

            • Corrado
            • 8 years ago

            Right, but this site isn’t indicative of the market as a whole. Also, a lot of us have been here for 10+ years. In the 12 years I’ve been visiting this site, I went from “Lets put Linux on everything and OC and case mod and FANS FANS FANS” high school kid with no money to “I have a wife and a family now. I’d rather pay $25 (I make more than that in an hour at work) a YEAR than see the rises in cooling costs, electric, noise, and buying the server + the time it takes to get it set up and working right. Then the trouble debugging it if things don’t work 100%, etc.

            Again, a lot of us COULD do all this, if we had the time and desire to keep tinkering. I’m now more focused on enjoying the end result vs the building of a lot of things. The fact that its completely baked into the OS now is just icing on the cake.

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]I'd rather pay $25 (I make more than that in an hour at work) a YEAR than see the rises in cooling costs, electric, noise, and buying the server + the time it takes to get it set up and working right. Then the trouble debugging it if things don't work 100%, etc.[/quote<] Hey if it would take you weeks to put up a file server by all means pay someone else 25 bucks. I believe I said that earlier. If it's going to take you forever pay Apple. For others it will only take 30 minutes. There's no shame in that. Again Apple creates products for people and you seem to be a perfect fit for their demographic.

      • flip-mode
      • 8 years ago

      I see the point you’re trying to make.

      [quote=”kc77″<]For a non-technical person yes this is the greatest thing since sliced bread (they don't know any better) ... for someone technical?[/quote<] Quite frankly, there are a million things I have the technical capability to do but I just plain don't want to futz with. If you're actually entertained by the technical aspects of rolling your own then by all means go for it. But this task seems technically menial and potentially more costly to maintain at the same time, so a highly technically apt person might be quite reasonable to avoid it.

        • kc77
        • 8 years ago

        [quote<]Quite frankly, there are a million things I have the technical capability to do but I just plain don't want to futz with. If you're actually entertained by the technical aspects of rolling your own then by all means go for it. But this task seems technically menial and potentially more costly to maintain at the same time, so a highly technically apt person might be quite reasonable to avoid it.[/quote<] Flip you don't even avoid it. Would you like help with mdraid? How about netconfig? It's not usual that I spend the time to comment in these threads. However, it seemed quite appropriate to highlight Apple's reliance to the uninformed, which you are not I might add.

          • flip-mode
          • 8 years ago

          LOL, touche. The music streaming this is not for me, but I certainly have my own areas of interest. Since I barely have enough interest in music to buy even 10 songs a year I seem well suited for “the cloud” as far as my music library goes.

          One of these days I’m going to get around to creating Windows network domain, though.

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<] One of these days I'm going to get around to creating Windows network domain, though. [/quote<] You should focus on mixed systems. Linux and Win in AD then OpenLDAP. I don't think I've met too many all MS or all Linux environments. However, a mixture of Linux & Win is quite prevalent. 🙂

    • derFunkenstein
    • 8 years ago

    Amusing how some people who bashed the Windows 8 full-screen interface are lauding Lion.

    I’ll at least be consistent. This sucks. It sucked when I saw the Windows 8 preview and it sucks now.

    The Mac App Store-only Lion DOES do one important thing – it’s going to make the Hackintosh community work a bit harder to get the OS installed. I wonder if once you get Lion going and log into the Mac App Store if it’ll check to see if you’re supposed to be a Lion owner and then lock up your Mac/Hackintosh if it’s not in your purchase history?

      • 5150
      • 8 years ago

      Apple fans are the Fox News of the computer world.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 8 years ago

        edit again: you changed the content of your comment while I was replying.

        Also, I’m an Mac fan, and I hate to see them make huge interface mistakes like this. Just like I’m a Windows fan and I hate to see MS make huge interface mistakes like Windows 8’s full-screen interface.

          • 5150
          • 8 years ago

          Thanks, but I’ll continue being an idiot for my duration on this planet. Have a great day!

        • oken735
        • 8 years ago

        Perfect comparison. +1

      • Da_Boss
      • 8 years ago

      I don’t think that you can compare what Microsoft is doing with W8, and Lion.

      I bashed W8 preview for a simple reason: They took a made-for-x86, 25 years of baggage, works-best-with 2GB+ of RAM, keyboard-and-mouse OS, and ported it to run on ARM SoC tablets. No matter how powerful they make the experience, it will probably never match the ease of use, and battery-life of an iOS, or even Android for that matter. It was a design decision that pretty much confirmed that MS was still stuck in the 90s and has no intention of getting out.

      What Apple did was take some of the UI/UX lesson learned from iOS, and re-apply them to the desktop in ways that seem to make sense. While I don’t agree with all of the design decisions (including full-screen), it looks as if they have a better understanding of where computing is going. Things like Versions and some of those gestures will have hugely positive and tangible impact on how people use their Macs.

      To imply that this is just Snow Leopard + full screen doesn’t really capture what actually happened today.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 8 years ago

        Actually what I’m referring to is putting the Windows Phone 7 interface on the PC. That’s what Apple is doing with Lion. It’s a bad idea all around.

          • Da_Boss
          • 8 years ago

          Uhh… The user interface of Snow Leopard and Lion are pretty similar–just look at some screenshots! What’s changed more drastically is how one moves around the computer–the user experience. Apple’s added new ways to work with the computer. While some of it seems kind of pointless, most of it is spot on and–dare I say–brilliant.

          What’s more impressive is that you can tell that Apple’s been thinking of this for a while. With the release of the multi-touch Magic Mouse and Trackpad, Apple’s actually been preparing users to engage this new way of experiencing a Mac slowly, rather than throwing a new touch-optimized layer of crap in front of a bunch of mouse and keyboard users.

          Again, you’re talking about two different approaches. One was done well, one wasn’t at all.

      • SNM
      • 8 years ago

      I’m not the biggest fan of some of the iOS-inspired features, but simply adding fullscreen mode isn’t bad. I like it in iPhoto 11, my problem is that they’re using non-standard buttons for it.

      But simply enabling fullscreen apps seems like a good enough idea to me. And while I miss 10.4/10.5 Expose for its predictability, Grand Central is the kind of thing I will very much appreciate.

      Plus of course all the app suspend tricks that Da_Boss talks about.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 8 years ago

        Save states are a great idea and it’s too bad it took until now for it to be implemented. I was clamoring for such a feature since the first time I had to restart a computer due to an update.

    • l33t-g4m3r
    • 8 years ago

    That’s a big front page ad. I hope you charged Apple a bunch of money for it, since Apple “news” is really just a waste of space for a tech enthusiast site.

      • 5150
      • 8 years ago

      At least review their product.

      • lilbuddhaman
      • 8 years ago

      Sadly, I see this as truth. 3 large sized photos, and it was the last story of the day at 3:33pm… Surely *someone* had something to write on this site about E3 ? If you aren’t directly paid by Apple for the extra space/time then certainly it’s because its a cheap way to get extra page hits in a day from non-tech-site-visiting-folk.

      edit: the 6:00am posting of the E3 stuff kinda validates part of the theory.

      • Ryszard
      • 8 years ago

      Why is it a waste of space for tech enthusiasts? A reasonable enough proportion of TR readers will be somehow invested in Apple technologies and products, IMHO.

    • End User
    • 8 years ago

    I’m very excited about what we saw today. I’m running Lion and it is very cool. iOS 5 is a major, and very welcomed, update. iCloud ties it all together for free!

    iTunes Match is cool but I don’t think I need it. I can manually manage my ripped content.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 8 years ago

      Really? You’re excited for iOS Lion on the desktop?

        • End User
        • 8 years ago

        Yup.

    • 5150
    • 8 years ago

    It truly amazes me how Steve Jobs could fart in a box and it would make front page of any tech/online news site.

      • Skrying
      • 8 years ago

      What exactly about a post summarizing one of Apple’s biggest announcement events made you post this comment? If there’s a news post covering Apple that is justified it would be this one.

        • lilbuddhaman
        • 8 years ago

        So the press conference for iFart is tommorrow ?

        • 5150
        • 8 years ago

        Every announcement Jobs makes is Apple’s biggest announcement. I’m not saying my opinion on the product, but it just amazes me the coverage this company gets in the media.

          • Skrying
          • 8 years ago

          No, some of their announcements are pretty damn unimportant. But this one is important. That’s the point. It’s ridiculous to state it isn’t. One of the largest technology companies in the world announced major updates to their two most popular product lines. That’s important and worthy of being covered. The same applies to any other technology company not named Apple.

            • 5150
            • 8 years ago

            I’m just saying that in the eyes of the media (and Jobs) every announcement is the biggest yet.

            • indeego
            • 8 years ago

            It is important when it is actually released, reviewed in final state, and public-pounded tested. The announcement is news, but not important news.

          • KoolAidMan
          • 8 years ago

          Of course its important, over the last 30 years they have generally set the pace and forward direction for consumer electronics.

          Obviously it can be overhyped sometimes, but you have to pay attention for the times when it really is justified.

            • rxc6
            • 8 years ago

            Consumer electronics… 30 years?… Your definition of consumer electronics is incredibly narrow, isn’t it? *rolls eyes*

    • PenGun
    • 8 years ago

    One more time. The cloud is just servers on the internet. As I run Linux I always have a web server running, any place I might need something I just go get it from my own server.

    I ran servers for years so it’s easy for me but there is not much too it. Just stick it on port 90 and the ISP sweeps will miss it.

      • BenBasson
      • 8 years ago

      It’s hardly the same thing:
      -Your personal internet connection won’t have the same bandwidth as more industrial connections, so pushing or pulling data from your server will be slow
      – You need your own backup system in place
      – You need to buy the additional hardware
      – You need your own redundancy plan if you want 24/7 access

      I’d hazard a guess that a cheap service that takes care of these problems and neatly integrates with your devices is going to appeal to people a lot more than a DIY setup.

        • PenGun
        • 8 years ago

        2.5 Mbit up and 3 MByte down. Should be plenty.
        I have the hardware right here. Backups … sure. It’s on all the time. I never turn my computer off.

        Feel free to pay Steve.

          • Deanjo
          • 8 years ago

          [quote<]1 megabyte up and 3 down. Should be plenty.[/quote<] Most people would kill for that 8Mbit upload that you have, unfortunately most have upload measured in kbit/second.

            • PenGun
            • 8 years ago

            I went to check and they say it’s actually “up to 2.5 Mbits so I was wrong about the up.

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            That is still a heck of a lot more then most.

          • BenBasson
          • 8 years ago

          That is quite a lot more than most home connections.

            • A_Pickle
            • 8 years ago

            No, it’s not.

            • BenBasson
            • 8 years ago

            Well, I guess we should all move to where you live then. It’s pretty rare to get anything close to that in the UK.

        • mutarasector
        • 8 years ago

        “-Your personal internet connection won’t have the same bandwidth as more industrial connections, so pushing or pulling data from your server will be slow”

        Maybe, maybe not. Bigger pipes don’t always guarantee superior bandwidth. Dedicated hardware on consistent bandwidth may offer as good as if not better than avg. throughput.

        – You need your own backup system in place

        Easily doable today inexpensively.

        – You need to buy the additional hardware

        Very affordable…

        – You need your own redundancy plan if you want 24/7 access

        Very affordable…

          • Corrado
          • 8 years ago

          All affordable, but all less than $25/year? Running a server, even a low power one, will cost you $15-20 a year in power. The 3-4 hours to set it up and unknown hours troubleshooting if theres a power outage or internet outtage? I make more than $25/hour at work, let alone 4 hours. Cost of the server? Generally, even if its a nettop, its going to cost you $200 minimum. Thats 8 years of iCould. Are you still going to have that same server in 8 years? Maybe, if the cheap low end net top for $200 still WORKS in 8 years.

            • A_Pickle
            • 8 years ago

            You assume that running one’s own server and iCloud provide equal quality of service. Running your own server gives you far more storage space and much better privacy than does iCloud.

            In addition, it wouldn’t be hard to configure a standard Windows desktop computer to behave as your server — I can already access all of the files on my desktop’s hard drive from anywhere in the world thanks to a VPN. If I use this server as my desktop when I’m at home — does that really count as an extra “$15-20” per year? Additionally, your numbers must assume that you’re running the server 24/7 — a behavior which isn’t necessary in an era with VPN’s and WoL-supportive NICs. The chances that a custom-built PC won’t last eight years are pretty remote in my mind, especially if you make efforts to minimize moving parts and increase reliability.

            I would gladly take the “added expense” if it means that my entire line of personal information isn’t available to Apple and whomever Apple deems fit to share my shit with.

          • BenBasson
          • 8 years ago

          All those things are affordable, but they’re still considerably more effort than just getting out a credit card.

          Even if someone has existing hardware, or can afford new hardware for a server, I sincerely doubt that most are going to have two or more Internet connections for redundancy and a solid off-site backup system. To suggest that even 1% of home users have anything close is probably insane.

          There are clear benefits to a true cloud system. I’m not saying it’s perfect or that we should all sign up, but the appeal should be obvious.

            • A_Pickle
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]There are clear benefits to a true cloud system.[/quote<] Running your own server [i<]is[/i<] a true cloud system.

            • kc77
            • 8 years ago

            Why do people insist that we need a nuclear shelter to do reliable backups? Companies all across the globe for decades have been backing up data without requiring “cloud services” (i.e content delivery services not provided by in house technicians).

            In terms of redundancy on your up-link to your provider(s) it is true most hosting/cloud based services utilize up-links from different tier1 providers. However even when I had Comcast (who i hate with a passion) the worst service they gave me was once a month we would have an outage which even then really was the worst they could do. That is still 96% uptime…..crappy but not unbearably crappy. Now this was back in 2005 or so. Just to speed things up i’m no longer with Comcast but my current uptime is %99.99. Meaning not days of downtime but minutes…. i think i’ll survive. That’s not even going over the fact of the difference between 1 person needing data and millions.

            Cloud based services are more about convenience than anything else. In terms of failures they have to observe the same limitations that we all observe. Now in terms of that convenience the more data you have the less convenient it is as you still have to transfer data over slow butt Ethernet/Fiber which is still slower than any interconnect you’ve got on your motherboard.

            BTW you will still be limited by either the bandwidth of your phone, WiFI connection, or wired service. It doesn’t matter if it’s cloud based or not you will be limited to the rate of your provider and the uptime it can provide.

    • lilbuddhaman
    • 8 years ago

    Ok a few things:

    1. An update to your OS costing money, without actually being a major release, ie: pay for service packs ?
    [b<]edit: I meant this as a question and a statement. Are OSX updates major enough to be in line with service pack, a patch, or a whole never version of windows ?[/b<] 2. Jobs "dazzles" with absolutely nothing new. 3. Any "cloud" idea just completely baffles me. Cloud + Bandwidth Caps = You're fucked. Even if it's just a scaled/bandwidth restriction after you hit your cap, that means data you NEED will all of a sudden be unavailable. Until caps cease to exist, get updated to reflect modern technology, or ignore certain types of data [i<](ie: the thing we really don't want because that would mean that net neutrality would die)[/i<] then Cloud-based anything is crap to me.

      • Corrado
      • 8 years ago

      Apple’s . release are major releases. MS charged for ME over 98. They charged for 7 over Vista, 98 SE over 98 and 98 over 95. And a lot more than $30 too.

        • Deanjo
        • 8 years ago

        You forgot XP was essentially a Service Packed 2k

      • Decelerate
      • 8 years ago

      Windows 7 is a service pack to me, and I payed for it. What’s the diff?

        • derFunkenstein
        • 8 years ago

        Actually it’s an SP to Vista not ME. /rimshot

        Thank you, I’ll be here all week!

      • Spune
      • 8 years ago

      1) In a lot of ways this feels like a service pack, as did snow leopard. That said I can’t remember the last time as service pack really did much more than pull together all the previous updates in one neat package.

      3) as a Canadian with bandwidth caps this cloud service does appear to be a real data hog. I’m not really sure how much this will overall but if you were to buy a new device and filled it from the cloud you definitely use a lot of bandwidth quickly. Here’s hoping this will lead companies like Apple and Google to push the ISPs and the Gov’t get rid of these caps but thats another argument.

        • Clutch Pedal
        • 8 years ago

        1) Snow Leopard was a major under the hood rewrite. I’d hardly call it a service pack. Lion is definitely a new OS.

        2) As a Canadian I would say that caps highlight how far out of touch our government is. Stifling innovation/competition to appease our content/internet providers is not the right way to do things.

      • BenBasson
      • 8 years ago

      I guess you need to be on a service without bandwidth caps then…

        • lilbuddhaman
        • 8 years ago

        Which (like the vast majority of US Citizens) is impossible without ridiculous pricing.

      • Deanjo
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]3. Any "cloud" idea just completely baffles me. Cloud + Bandwidth Caps = You're **** Even if it's just a scaled/bandwidth restriction after you hit your cap, that means data you NEED will all of a sudden be unavailable. Until caps cease to exist, get updated to reflect modern technology, or ignore certain types of data (ie: the thing we really don't want because that would mean that net neutrality would die) then Cloud-based anything is crap to me.[/quote<] Ahh but it is services like these that show how stupid those caps and throttles are and brings a certain legitimacy to why people need more bandwidth and unlimited data moving forward. Otherwise your ISP's and regulators will gladly keep singing the "only pirates need such data usage and speeds" bullsh*t. The more services that are offered like this, the greater the pressure on the ISP's and regulators to abandon that practice.

        • Captain Ned
        • 8 years ago

        Um, you’re not even wrong.

        The ISPs depend on (and probably secretly promoted) Apple’s move to the cloud. Far from being the trigger to cap-free nirvana, this is Apple’s payback to the ISPs in the form of data overcharges.

        This isn’t a bug, it’s a feature. I wouldn’t be surprised to find that Apple gets a cut of the data overcharges simply because they’ve designed iCloud to bust bandwidth caps and make ISPs lots of cash.

          • Deanjo
          • 8 years ago

          [quote<]I wouldn't be surprised to find that Apple gets a cut of the data overcharges simply because they've designed iCloud to bust bandwidth caps and make ISPs lots of cash.[/quote<] Sure and Netflix is in there too, not to mention Amazon, Microsoft, and every other online service.

          • Deanjo
          • 8 years ago

          Oh ya not to mention google and youtube….

          • Palek
          • 8 years ago

          There really is a conspiracy theorist for every possible topic on the interwebs…

          You know why tomatoes are red? It’s the communists!!!111

    • Prion
    • 8 years ago

    I’d say that the Apple WWDC was underwhelming or even lame but then again they did all of the big E3 announcements on the same day and those were even worse (especially the Microsoft stream, what the hell) so Apple wins today’s tech news by default I guess.

    • Xenolith
    • 8 years ago

    Google Music beta is free. Up to 20,000 songs. No matching, but no $25 a year either.

      • Corrado
      • 8 years ago

      The BETA is free. What about when its not beta? How much space will they give you for free? The only thing thats $25/year is matching. Everything else is free, including the 5GB of space.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 8 years ago

        Knowing Google it will be beta for about 5 years, then there will be an ad-supported free version anyway. *shrug*

    • potatochobit
    • 8 years ago

    perhaps your definition of dazzle is different than mine, but other than the 29.95$ announcement this was a total waste of time

    it’s astounding how many idiots can’t see the major flaws in an online service run by apple

    First of all, if you look at the last picture above, YOU HAVE TO PLUG YOUR IPHONE INTO YOUR MAC ANYWAY TO SYNC IT
    now, instead of syncing music directly to your computer you want to transmit the same date through the internet which is even slower? that’s brilliant- NOT!

    Second, this is very important now, Apple wants you to believe you can access your music anywhere, even if its not on one of your devices.
    HERE IS THE CATCH: why would you not have music on a device you already own?
    icloud is NOT for sharing. Are you going to log in to a public computer to jam on your tunes? Why dont you give that shady looking fellow your bank account information as well.
    Most people listen to music in their car, does icloud download to your car? it does NOT.

    listen, 5 years ago storage was a premium. but now I cant even fill up 8GB of music let alone 16 or 32GB that modern phones will have. This has been a waste of time and where is that stupid iphone5, I am not going to settle for an iphone4 with bad reception.

      • Deanjo
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]but now I cant even fill up 8GB of music let alone 16 or 32GB that modern phones will have. This has been a waste of time and where is that stupid iphone5, I am not going to settle for an iphone4 with bad reception.[/quote<] Well you are an exception to the rule. People have no problem filling up 40+ gig on a audio player/phone , especially when that storage space is also used for storing video, pictures, apps, etc along with high quality audio.

      • Deanjo
      • 8 years ago

      Oh BTW,

      [quote<]First of all, if you look at the last picture above, YOU HAVE TO PLUG YOUR IPHONE INTO YOUR MAC ANYWAY TO SYNC IT now, instead of syncing music directly to your computer you want to transmit the same date through the internet which is even slower? that's brilliant- NOT!"[/quote<] No you don't. Not only can you sync via wifi but all you need now is to be able to connect to the iTunes store which is easily done via your cell network. [quote<]HERE IS THE CATCH: why would you not have music on a device you already own? icloud is NOT for sharing. Are you going to log in to a public computer to jam on your tunes? [/quote<] Let's see, limited storage capacity, perhaps you had a storage device failure or theft of a device or you simply were not in the mood for that selection when loading up your iPod but now are and nowhere close to your source. [quote<]Most people listen to music in their car, does icloud download to your car? it does NOT. [/quote<] You seem to miss the premise that the ONLY thing that is uploaded to the cloud is selections that they do not have to match your collection otherwise you are grabbing it from iTunes in a 256Kbps, DRM-free, AAC version.

        • potatochobit
        • 8 years ago

        [i<]No you don't. Not only can you sync via wifi but all you need now is to be able to connect to the iTunes store which is easily done via your cell network.[/i<] Are you on drugs? Syncing through wifi is still using your home network and has NOTHING do with online service. I can access my entire music library on a windows7 PC wirelessly through my macbook pro laptop. Obviously you would have to have your iphone with you to connect to a cell network in the first place. and if you bought a song, WITH you phone, why would you NOT download it in the first place. Oh sure, I'll just stream my music while riding the bus through a tunnel, derp derp. I will reiterate, the only thing this service does that other competitors cannot also do is make users spread their itunes account password over multiple devices. In the past people needed music storage and fast access, but in our current times GBs are cheap. if the service is free, might as well use it. But apple giving me something free? there has to be a future catch.

          • Deanjo
          • 8 years ago

          [quote<]Are you on drugs? Syncing through wifi is still using your home network and has NOTHING do with online service.[/quote<] Nope you are not understanding how it works. You do not need a Mac or PC at all to sync your devices now. All you need is a net connection and a Apple/iTunes account. The only thing that is stored on the cloud is the music that iTunes cannot match up. The service that iCloud offers is not a streaming service. When matched it is a drm free aac file. When it isn't matched it exists on the cloud in what ever original format available for you to download on other devices.

      • Palek
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]this was a total waste of time[/quote<] Reading your misinformed rambling was a total waste of time.

        • potatochobit
        • 8 years ago

        exactly what am I misinformed about little troll boy?
        the bridge is that way ->
        if you dont want to read people’s opinions then don’t come to the comments section idiot.

          • Palek
          • 8 years ago

          Yes, you exposed me, I’m a troll. I just don’t know what kind of a troll I am, so could you please enlighten me?

          Since you asked so nicely, let me point out the misinformed parts.

          Exhibit A:
          [quote<]First of all, if you look at the last picture above, YOU HAVE TO PLUG YOUR IPHONE INTO YOUR MAC ANYWAY TO SYNC IT[/quote<] How on earth did you miss the part where you don't have to sync to computers any more? And where exactly do you see an iPhone plugged into a Mac in the last photo? Exhibit B: [quote<]Second, this is very important now, Apple wants you to believe you can access your music anywhere, even if its not on one of your devices. HERE IS THE CATCH: why would you not have music on a device you already own?[/quote<] Err... because you have more music than you can fit on your iDevice? Believe it or not, this is possible. Exhibit C: [quote<] icloud is NOT for sharing. Are you going to log in to a public computer to jam on your tunes? Why dont you give that shady looking fellow your bank account information as well.[/quote<] Okey-dokey. Exhibit D: [quote<]Most people listen to music in their car, does icloud download to your car? it does NOT.[/quote<] I don't even know what you're trying to say with this one. But why would your iPhone not work in your car? Do you have a metal cage inside yours to keep the gubmint from spying on you? Exhibit E: [quote<]listen, 5 years ago storage was a premium. but now I cant even fill up 8GB of music let alone 16 or 32GB that modern phones will have.[/quote<] Yes, obviously you are the gold standard by which all music collections are measured. Nobody has or could possibly have more music than you. Except... I have more music than you. And so do a lot of other people (see above). My music collection is over 25GBs.

            • glynor
            • 8 years ago

            Heh… You made me curious. So, I just went into MC, switched to my “all media” view, and hit Control-A. Here’s the result:

            [url<]http://glynor.com/img/screenshots/MC-Library_Size_Today.jpg[/url<] Now, of course, that includes most of my video library (but not all, I haven't imported everything into my main library), which is why the size is so huge... But, still, it proves the point. EDIT: Damn, you can't post [IMG] bbcode tags here, I guess. I'll reformat that to a URL.

            • pedro
            • 8 years ago

            I trust you legally purchased them there 4.1 TB of entertainment.

            • glynor
            • 8 years ago

            Almost all of my music was purchased from Amazon or ripped from my CDs. I’ve certainly ripped a few CDs from friends here and there, but not the vast majority by any means. A few things may have slipped through the cracks at the edges, but most of the content I [i<]did[/i<] illicitly download back in the day before there were DRM-free, legitimate online distribution sources, I have subsequently re-purchased from legit sources or deleted because it was bad anyway. The video content was almost all exclusively recorded by [i<]my[/i<] DVR systems over time (currently SageTV) or ripped from optical discs that I own (or owned at one time, I no longer have any use for spinning optical discs other than as a vehicle to move the content into my library, so I do tend to resell the original discs once I've ripped them). Just because you have a large library, doesn't mean you are a pirate. I'm not perfect (the reselling isn't really technically legit), but I try very hard to be legitimate wherever possible.

    • adisor19
    • 8 years ago

    Anybody old enough to remember that iTunes Match is essentially what mp3.com was back in the 90s ?

    Adi

      • September
      • 8 years ago

      bingo.

      and they get to track how much “free” software you have.

      • Deanjo
      • 8 years ago

      Hey $25 for turning all my old crappy 96-128 kbps mp3’s into a high quality DRM-free AAC file that isn’t “mp3 fried” and with proper ID3 tags (and viewed as legal)…… that is one hell of a deal if you ask me for that alone.

    • Spune
    • 8 years ago

    Is there really much to the Lion announcement other than a reasonable price (sounds odd when I type it). All I see personally are more gestures, full screen apps, and the ability to adjust window size from any corner. Wonderful.

    I’m sure I’ll end up picking it up if only for the other bug fixes but really is there anything in there that is actually useful? Am I missing something?

    FYI I love my MBP but I was really hoping for a real update of the finder to let me do things easier and use the file system decently. Not just have it hidden deeper.

    edit: grammar

      • tay
      • 8 years ago

      Versions?

      • WillBach
      • 8 years ago

      I’d say the versioning of documents is worth a lot more than $29.99. I’ve been waiting for that feature for awhile. The window management is something you mentioned but I think it’s going to be super useful.

        • Spune
        • 8 years ago

        I guess versions could be worth while. The only place I use something like that right now is for my photography and I keep different versions manually at different points of post processing. Of course I do all my photo work on my PC so this really won’t be terribly useful.

        The window management will be useful but only because it was so far behind windows before!

        I was just hoping at some point they would come up with better way to truncate files that still allowed you to figure out what fiel you were looking at without having to click on every single one.

          • Corrado
          • 8 years ago

          Windows window management is essentially Alt-Tab, snap and previews to the icons in the task bar. Virtual Desktops built in and Spaces is pretty far ahead of where Windows is currently.

          I’d argue that Expose has been been pretty far ahead of Windows in window management for a good while now.

            • Spune
            • 8 years ago

            I love expose and virtual desktops but its not new.

            I was talking about being able to resize a window from any corner. Ground breaking stuff.

            • Skrying
            • 8 years ago

            You don’t need Expose in Windows. You need Expose in OS X because you can do nearly no window management via the OS X dock. The taskbar in Windows gives a much quicker way to select the window you need.

            I’d choose Windows over OS X every day of the week. OS X has been by far the biggest disappointment with my MBP. It’s just not a great environment to work with multiple windows. Being forced to constantly jump out to Expose is jarring.

            • SNM
            • 8 years ago

            I recommend the excellent Hyperdock if you want your Dock to have better window management features. It adds the things that most people like about Win7 to OS X and I love it (though if I had to choose I’d still go with the default OS X interface over Win7, Win7 actually did provide a few new features and wasn’t nigh-unusable for handling windows like previous versions of the OS were).

      • KoolAidMan
      • 8 years ago

      Systemwide versioning and easy cut & paste between those versions and saved states is pretty great. I wish it was in Windows.

    • pdjblum
    • 8 years ago

    What’s magical is that Apple can get people to believe copying what others have been doing is magical.

      • DrDillyBar
      • 8 years ago

      Exactly.

      • Corrado
      • 8 years ago

      You’re right, they should totally not add features just for the sole purpose that someone else has already done it. I mean, why did Android even come out? They’re just copying features in Symbian, BB OS, Windows Mobile, PalmOS, WebOS and iOS, right? Why would anyone think Android is a good OS?

        • RhysAndrews
        • 8 years ago

        pdjblum didn’t say they shouldn’t add those features.
        He just said Apple likes to make out they were the original and best at those features.

          • KoolAidMan
          • 8 years ago

          They’re not the originals, they rarely are, but they are generally the best at execution and getting it right.

          • pdjblum
          • 8 years ago

          Thanks RhysAndrews for pointing out the obvious to Corrado. Corrado has shown himself to be the most fervent of Apple fan boys, and as is often the case, being such makes him very defensive and unpleasant.

            • Corrado
            • 8 years ago

            Yes, fervant apple fanboy here posting on my Dell Latitude e5400 and my self built Athlon 2 x4. Also so fervant that I sold my iPad to get a Galaxy Tab, Acer Iconia, Kindle, Nook Color and a BlackBerry PlayBook. So fervant in fact, that I sold my iPhone 4 to get a Nexus S, a HTC G2 and a LG G2x.

            Yes, I do own a MacBook Pro. And yes, I do own an AppleTV. But I also own a Roku, a PS3, an XBox 360, and a Wii.

            Heres the thing, I love TECHNOLOGY. And I’m not so blinded by any one company that I’m afraid or refuse to use something on principle. It doesn’t pain me to admit that the notifications system in ios5 is almost a direct copy of Android. But it works, and is really a great way to do notifications, so why fault them? Every company steals from every other company in their industry. Its nothing new, and it will never go away. As someone else said, if the shortest way from A->B is a straight line, does everyone who uses that straight line ‘copy’ the first person to do it? I’m not immediately LOL@APPLE no matter what they do. The anti-fanbboys are just as bad, if not worse than the fanboys.

            • KoolAidMan
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]The anti-fanbboys are just as bad, if not worse than the fanboys.[/quote<] They've definitely gotten worse. I own both PCs and Macs, and I spend [i<]WAY[/i<] more on my PC hardware. That said, I know that Apple makes fantastic hardware, operating systems, and that they do a lot to drive the entire PC and consumer electronics industry forward. I say this as someone who [i<]loves[/i<] my gaming PC. It is ridiculous that saying something positive about Apple = "rabid fanboy". The PC/Android fanboys have gotten much worse and much more elitist over the last three years. Garry, the creator of Garry's Mod, said something hilarious and completely accurate in an interview last year: [url<]http://kotaku.com/5676077/meet-garry-the-guy-who-re+made-how-we-re+make-pc-games[/url<] [quote<]Garry's Mod launched on the Mac last month. Mac users are creating stuff as well, though Garry isn't spotting any differences between Mac and Windows users' creativity. "If there's someone in the server on a Mac they're indistinguishable from PC players," he says. "Which is the way it's got to stay since PC gamers are assholes to Mac gamers for some reason."[/quote<]

          • glynor
          • 8 years ago

          I watched the whole thing, and they didn’t really say anything like that. Actually, this whole keynote was shockingly low on the hyperbole scale.

          They do certainly sometimes claim that things they release are revolutionary and, yes, sometimes they’ve used the word “magical”, but frankly… Execution counts, and sometimes the things they do [i<]are[/i<] revolutionary, even if they aren't completely original. Heck... What IS completely original in the tech space? But, regardless... A lot of sites are reporting this stuff as though they said the "magical" word again. It wasn't really like that.

            • KoolAidMan
            • 8 years ago

            Yup. This was overall a very practically minded keynote. Some of the things like systemwide versioning is something I would [i<]love[/i<] to have Windows. The Windows 8 demonstrations so far seem driven by marketing departments aimed at winning people over with glitz and zing, not logical solutions for real user issues.

            • lilbuddhaman
            • 8 years ago

            So basically Apple is doing a little Windows by adding basic functionality, and Windows is doing a little Apple by adding some semi-gloss and shiny ?

    • anotherengineer
    • 8 years ago

    “iCloud”

    Is that what Jobs refers to as heaven?

      • indeego
      • 8 years ago

      He’ll probably find out soon enough.

        • ClickClick5
        • 8 years ago

        And you just won the “burn” for the week.

        • lilbuddhaman
        • 8 years ago

        If it was anyone but Jobs, i’d say “too soon”…. but for him “not soon enough”.

          • Palek
          • 8 years ago

          [sarcasm]Yes, he’s such an evil, evil man, he obviously must die…[/sarcasm]

            • crabjokeman
            • 8 years ago

            Let’s see you work the hours/conditions that some of Apple’s suppliers’ employees do, and that might take the wind out of your sarcasm sails.

            • Palek
            • 8 years ago

            If that’s your justification for wishing death upon someone, you should add the CEO of pretty much every technology company in the world to your death list. It’ll keep you pretty busy.

            And why stop at the CEO level? People further down the corporate ladder should receive some of the blame, too! Do [u<]you[/u<] work as an engineer for a tech company that manufactures end products in China? Well then, you should get some rashes on unspeakable parts of your body! (Still in sarcasm mode.)

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