Rage update addresses PC issues

When speaking to Kotaku last week about the issues afflicting Rage on the PC, id’s Tim Willits and John Carmack laid much of the blame at the feet of graphics drivers from AMD and Nvidia. Carmack went so far as go call the driver issues "a real cluster !@#$," which is a term perhaps better reserved for Rage‘s PC release as a whole.

Drivers clearly bear some of the blame. Some of their initial flakiness can probably be attributed to the fact that Rage uses an OpenGL renderer, while just about every other new game released in the last few years has relied on the DirectX API. I’m sure you can guess which API has received more attention from driver engineers at AMD and Nvidia.

Rage has been in development for quite some time, so it’s not like its use of OpenGL was a big surprise. Carmack says id even made "significant internal changes" to improve performance with Radeon drivers and hardware. Then AMD went and released a "Rage performance driver" with the wrong OpenGL component. Smooth.

Some of Rage‘s PC problems have little to do with drivers, and many of the most prominent complaints are addressed in an update to the game that hit Steam this weekend. The official release notes are pretty lengthy, and they begin with an odd explanation of why some of the changes weren’t included in the official release.

RAGE defaults to lower video settings to allow the game to work on a wide variety of hardware and software configurations. Unfortunately, it is not possible to anticipate all possible graphics driver issues in combination with unique end user hardware and software configurations. For this reason RAGE does not automatically increase video/graphics settings as this could result in negative side effects on specific hardware and software configurations. The original release of RAGE does not expose many video/graphics options for people to tweak because some of these settings, although desirable from a quality perspective, simply will not work on specific configurations either due to hardware limitations and/or driver bugs.

id is no stranger to developing PC games, so I’m surprised it thought removing graphics options was more desirable than risking some of them not working on specific hardware configurations. It’s not like previous id games haven’t exhibited "negative side effects" when graphics settings were pushed beyond the capabilities of the underlying hardware. None of those games included a fancy auto-balancer that dynamically adjusted detail levels to hit a 60 FPS target, though.

After warning that not everyone will be able to use the new graphical settings incorporated into the Rage update, id goes on to detail the major changes:

– Implemented workaround for AMD driver crash right after intro cinematic on Win 7 32-bit systems.

– Disabled UBOs because they are causing animation issues with AMD drivers.

– Don’t allow swap-tear to be enabled on AMD while the extension is not exposed because it may crash.

– Support for new video settings: "texture cache", "vsync" and "anisotropic filter"

– Automatically adjust vt_maxPPF based on the number of available cores.

– Improved performance for SLI cards when GPU transcode is enabled.

– Fix for GPU Transcoding option being disabled after exiting gameplay.

– Added safe mode to restore video settings to default values.

– Allow g_fov to be changed from the RAGE launch options in Steam.

– Server now forwards text chat from clients to all other clients while in-game.

Those new video settings appear in the game’s options menu, and they’re not as granular as one might hope. The texture cache defines how much texture data to keep in video memory, and it can only be toggled between "large" and "small" settings. If you don’t have enough memory, id warns that using the large setting might cause the game to crash. Unfortunately, it doesn’t indicate how much video RAM is enough to run the game with a large texture cache. The addition of a command-line switch to launch the game in safe mode should ensure that you can back off any graphics settings that cause Rage to crash.

I just fired up Rage on a GeForce GTX 470 with 1280MB of video memory, and it seems happy with a large texture cache. The game looks much better, as well—at least as good as it did after applying Nvidia’s suggested config-file tweaks. (I got rid of my config files before applying the update.)

id has added a similarly basic anisotropic filtering setting that one can toggle between "high" and "low" values. There’s no word on what those high and low values represent, but the engine’s aniso support appears to top out at 4X. Given the number of antialiasing options in the game, I’m a little surprised the aniso options are so sparse.

At least you get a third option with the new vsync setting, which can be turned on, off, or set to a smart mode that uses a new "swap-tear" extension that id hopes will be supported by future graphics drivers. In smart-vsync mode, the game may exhibit tearing if the frame rate drops below 60 FPS. id views occasional tearing as less of a penalty than having to wait a full screen refresh cycle for the display of another frame.

The new vsync control doesn’t appear to work with Nvidia’s current beta drivers, which require additional tweaking to eliminate tearing. Scott got vsync working this weekend by forcing it on in the Nvidia control panel and in the individual profiles associated with rage.exe and rage64.exe.

Comments closed
    • Bensam123
    • 8 years ago

    This game is an abomination. I haven’t seen a launch this bad in a real loooong time. Not like it’s buggy and a crappy port, but it literally seems like they ported it at the last minute and did absolutely no quality assurance work on it. They’re just playing damage control right now. I own a AMD and I have friends that use Nvidia cards and we’re all suffering.

    • xiaomim
    • 8 years ago
    • EndlessWaves
    • 8 years ago

    It’s always a surprise to me that developers that chose to use steamworks add any graphics options at all. They seem to be happy with the very limited options steam offers to change it’s behaviour so why not model the rest of the game after that?

    • ish718
    • 8 years ago

    First commercial OpenGL 4 game = FAIL

      • khands
      • 8 years ago

      Is it really OGL 4? I thought it was still technically 3.1 or something.

        • djgandy
        • 8 years ago

        It can probably run in a variety of configurations depending on what card you have in your system. I wouldn’t expect it to be more than 3.2 though considering its development timeline. GL4 is way too recent.

    • luisnhamue
    • 8 years ago

    I’ll wait until some mature drivers appear. there are some games that u should enjoy with absolutely no bugs. And this one seems like one of them.

    • Headloser
    • 8 years ago

    Hi there,
    From what i understand, the problem is not 100% with the ati and nvidia driver, is that is was design to work on PS3 and XBOX360 in mind first , then the PC come second. Of course, everybody know how lousy and outdated both the consoles are, so they are forced to rolled back and scale down the game to get to run (properly). You noticed only the PC version are having trouble, not those “other two”.
    This is what you get when ID Software think the PC is not the future. I guess that is right since the company ain’t going to be around soon.
    I hate to thin what going to happen to SKYRIM PC version. UH. i don’t want to think about it.
    OH by the way, WHERE THE F%CKING HELL WAS THE testing stage. Don’t tell me they “didn’t” experience any problem. I bet they didn’t even bother to test the PC version. What a bunch of Lazy people they have in their company. Where was the beta test??? We could have done the work ourselves and properly make it even better.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 8 years ago

      Bzzzt. Wrong. [quote<]"Unfortunately, we have had video driver issues that have caused problems and frustrations with our PC fans. Everyone at id Software is very upset by these issues which are mostly out of our control. We are working with both AMD/ATI and Nvidia to help them identify and fix the issues with their drivers. We've had assurances that these problems are being addressed and new drivers will be available soon."[/quote<] [url<]http://kotaku.com/5847761/why-was-the-pc-launch-of-rage-such-a-cluster[/url<]

    • odizzido
    • 8 years ago

    Wow I hate to say it, but carmak sounds like a whiny bitch. id has been making games for the PC for a long time, they worked on rage for six years, and when it released it pretty much didn’t work.

    I am sorry but you can’t blame that on others. It’s like they didn’t even bother to check to see if it would work on PC. How could such a mess pass through QA? The only thing I can think of is they don’t even have QA.

    I am don’t really care about the game, I won’t be playing it for over a year…..but carmaks attitude is really bad so I wanted to make a post.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 8 years ago

      You’re the whiny bitch.

        • travbrad
        • 8 years ago

        Nuh uh. *puts hands over ears*

      • can-a-tuna
      • 8 years ago

      Agreed. Good that you wrote this. Now I don’t have to.

      • douglar
      • 8 years ago

      Id should have done less whining and more beta testing.

      Just imagine if they would have released the first 10 minutes of the game as a free playable demo last month.

      That’s what the old shareware id would have done back in the early 90’s.

      It would have stirred up the hype without letting people know the limitations of the game and gotten everything debugged.

      • blitzy
      • 8 years ago

      Now that I work in QA I have come to realise that just because you can identify a problem it doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s going to get fixed. I don’t work in the games industry but I imagine the situation is the same.

      Not to say that as an excuse for releasing a game with problems, but rather that QA isn’t always at fault. Usually QA will identify problems, then someone else will make a decision on what actually gets fixed.

      Personally I would put more blame on the project managers, it’s their job to guide the focus of the programmers and make sure that the important stuff gets dealt with. It’s never that simple though, e.g. a project manager can tell a programmer or tester to do something and that doesn’t mean they will get it right. The fact that they had to cope with PC and consoles is probably the main issue.

      • khands
      • 8 years ago

      Carmack doesn’t want to be in the industry anymore, he just doesn’t realize it yet. He develops engines that he doesn’t want to support, and games that he doesn’t want to make sure are up to snuff. I think the last one he really really cared about was Q3A, and has been on a decline ever since.

      • djgandy
      • 8 years ago

      Carmack is probably right to blame drivers.

      The problem with new versions of OpenGL is that there is nothing to test the implementations. Without content and conformance tests the driver teams have to test things themselves. They can’t write 10 game engines all in slightly different ways to ensure that their driver is correct, they rely on smaller unit tests and much simpler scenes.

      The only way OGL implementations will get better is if they are used. This is the first time cutting edge OGL has been used on the desktop for years, at least in something highly complex.

    • LoneWolf15
    • 8 years ago

    I’m curious –I know Carmack has always been in love with OpenGL, and stated its countless many benefits over DirectX, etc.. At one point, he was also right.

    However, we’re no longer at the age of DirectX 5/6/7. DirectX has, for the most part (with IMHO the one mistake of killing DirectSound3D rather than re-working it) really come into its own, and great games can be made with it.

    Why is JC still so wed to OpenGL? Is there really a need now that we’re at DirectX 11? Or is there really something on the Windows/XBox platform that can be done in OpenGL that cannot be done as well or better on DirectX?

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 8 years ago

      Principle. OpenGL is open. Linux compatibility / cross platform. Works on XP with dx11 type effects. You can still do a lot with OpenGL, it’s not dead, just underused. DX is microsoft lock-in, and if you want to maximize sales, you go with OpenGL. A side benefit of Carmack programming in OpenGL is that it keeps the API relevant and updated. It probably wouldn’t get as much support if not for his games.

      [url<]http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX[/url<] (white background, same article.) [url<]http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DavidRosen/20100108/4051/Why_You_Should_Use_OpenGL_And_Not_DirectX.php[/url<]

        • Airmantharp
        • 8 years ago

        I like your perspective (+1), but I’m still not sold on OpenGL’s relevance to PC/Windows gaming (where are gaming Mac’s again?).

          • A_Pickle
          • 8 years ago

          [quote=”Airmantharp”<]where are gaming Mac's again?[/quote<] Stronger than they have ever been, what was your point again?

        • travbrad
        • 8 years ago

        Too bad debugging BEFORE release isn’t one of his principles. :p

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 8 years ago

          You can only do so much with things that aren’t your fault. Drivers aren’t his responsibility, but he still wrote a workaround patch for buggy AMD drivers.

          [quote<] "The driver issues at launch have been a real cluster !@#$," he wrote. "We were quite happy with the performance improvements that we had made on AMD hardware in the months before launch; we had made significant internal changes to cater to what AMD engineers said would allow the highest performance with their driver and hardware architectures, and we went back and forth with custom extensions and driver versions."[/quote<] Sounds like some debugging went on here. [quote<] "We knew that all older AMD drivers, and some Nvidia drivers would have problems with the game, but we were running well in-house on all of our test systems. When launch day came around and the wrong driver got released, half of our PC customers got a product that basically didn't work. The fact that the working driver has incompatibilities with other titles doesn't help either. Issues with older / lower end /exotic setups are to be expected on a PC release, but we were not happy with the experience on what should be prime platforms." [/quote<] Oh, look. AMD fubar'd the driver release, what a surprise. That's not id's problem. [quote<] Everyone at id Software is very upset by these issues which are mostly out of our control. We are working with both AMD/ATI and Nvidia to help them identify and fix the issues with their drivers. We've had assurances that these problems are being addressed and new drivers will be available soon." [/quote<] There ya go. It's being worked on, so all the people doing the immature whining are just being pathetic piles of worthless goo that are whining about nothing. At minimum, they don't know what they are whining about, and are complaining to the wrong people. If you guys would ever get your head screwed on straight, and complain about the drivers, I wouldn't be ragging on you all.

        • djgandy
        • 8 years ago

        ” and if you want to maximize sales, you go with OpenGL.”

        I’d like to see you back that up! Especially considering how many big name GL titles there has been in the past 5 years…..0.

        “A side benefit of Carmack programming in OpenGL is that it keeps the API relevant and updated.”
        What? GL just copies all the features that DX implements. The API evolves to support the features of the hardware.

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 8 years ago

          OpenGL doesn’t make people buy more copies, it allows you to sell to a wider audience. You can sell the game to the pc/mac/linux crowd, and both major consoles without rewriting the renderer. Halo might make a lot of xbox sales, but you can’t run it on a Mac/Playstation.

          [quote<]What? GL just copies all the features that DX implements.[/quote<] That's a load of crap. OpenGL has been vastly superior to DX up until dx10-11, and still allows you to run those effects on XP. [quote<]The API evolves to support the features of the hardware.[/quote<] No duh. That's how they all work, except Microsoft's API doesn't adapt as quickly as OpenGL.

      • Game_boy
      • 8 years ago

      Playstation.

      • Geistbar
      • 8 years ago

      There was an article ([url<]https://techreport.com/discussions.x/20580[/url<]) that briefly touched on it. Basically he admits that DirectX is currently a better development platform, but all of id's internal tools are keyed for OpenGL; reworking them, modifying them, or making new ones would be a substantial undertaking. Also, there is one thing people always miss when talking about DirectX vs OpenGL; DirectX handles far more than rendering, it handles inputs, sound, networking... OpenGL is just rendering. It might be possible that Carmack thinks OpenGL is a better renderer (though, that seems doubtful considering his word choice in the linked article) and thus sticks with it, but sees that for people without established tools, that the package deal of DirectX is superior.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 8 years ago

        Carmack is a frank guy. He was commenting on how far along microsoft had come, and they have come a long way from their older versions. Doesn’t mean he thought DX was better.

        DX is still lock-in and OpenGL gives you all the features of DX11, while still working on XP. There’s still a big segment of pc owners left on XP, and OpenGL is now the only way to reach them. Plus I think Mac and linux owners would appreciate a new game thrown their way every now and then.

        [quote<]The tesselation technology that Microsoft is heavily promoting for DirectX 11 has been an OpenGL extension for three years.[/quote<] Another thing people don't look at is that he sometimes plays politics with his statements too. I believe OpenGL at the time was having issues, and he probably said those things to get the ball moving. Carmack did the same thing with the Rage DVD issue on the Xbox vs PS3. He went around saying the PS3 version would be so much better, so Microsoft gave in on the multiple discs. "DirectX handles far more than rendering" And you can use those features with OpenGL, that doesn't force you to use D3D. There's also things like SDL. Linux does fine without DX.

          • djgandy
          • 8 years ago

          I doubt rage is using the DX11 features of OGL though. GL4.1 was only recently released. This is still a DX10+/- era engine.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            First off, OGL doesn’t “use” DX. That’s stupid. Second, if rage wasn’t using new features, what’s with the driver problems? Neither AMD or Nvidia’s older drivers can play this game. Beta drivers are a requirement. That right there shows rage is using cutting edge OpenGL.

            Tessellation? That was a design choice if you listened to Carmack’s interviews. Tessellation has some problems (crysis2) as seen here:
            [url<]http://sebastiansylvan.wordpress.com/2010/04/18/the-problem-with-tessellation-in-directx-11/[/url<] Carmack basically said that using a model with more polys and a lod worked better for him at this point in time. [url<]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hapCuhAs1nA#t=21m50s[/url<]

      • djgandy
      • 8 years ago

      Carmack himself said DX is better than GL a few years back and has since reiterated that point.

      I don’t know why he chooses GL. It certainly doesn’t give the game more reach, nor does it make dealing with consoles easier as you still have to support the Xbox.

      • Bensam123
      • 8 years ago

      It’s about wanting to be different. I acknowledge OpenGL for what it is, but it’s pretty much dead in terms of game development.

        • turkeysam
        • 8 years ago

        Actually, the PS3 apparently uses a subset of the OpenGL library. Indeed, if you’re seeing 3D graphics on any other device outside a Windows PC or an xbox, that you can be pretty certain it’s been coded with some version of OpenGL. So in that respect I’d argue that it’s far from dead, and even appears to have a rosy future.

        DX is a proprietry Microsoft API. It’s extremely functional, and well supported by Microsoft and also by the big two graphics card makers. This is what makes it popular for Windows/Xbox developent. The catch is, you gotta buy a developement licence from MS to use it. Thats a moot point if you’ve already purchased Visual Studios. Microsoft controls the API, and as such, has the last say in what commands/functionality are available to the programmer.

        Largely speaking, OpenGL and DX can both be interchangeable as long as you design the software to allow it. However they can leapfrog each other with respect to available commands or functionality.

        OpenGL has an ‘extension’ system wherby a developer or graphics card designer can add a new command/function call for new funtionality. However, this must be supported by the driver to allow the extension to be used by the hardware. Given the novel nature of ID Tech 5’s texture management, I suspect there’s been some muddiness between ID, AMD/Nvidia, and a few new OpenGL extensions!

    • moriz
    • 8 years ago

    mine is still broken. i keep getting random lockups that can persist for upwards of 30 seconds. everything just stops, with only ambient audio playing in the background. when the game is not locking up, it seems to run fine otherwise.

      • Meadows
      • 8 years ago

      Screen updates stop if you run out of VRAM in RAGE. Decrease the resolution, decrease antialiasing, or reduce the texture option, and try again.

        • moriz
        • 8 years ago

        curiously enough, i seem to have tentatively fixed it by using a .cfg file that forced high resolution textures and ultra-high settings. go figure. now the game looks fantastic, and doesn’t lock up (at least, not in the 15 minute test run that i did).

          • Meadows
          • 8 years ago

          Weird.
          Okay, screen updates [i<]resume[/i<] if you run out of VRAM. 😉

            • moriz
            • 8 years ago

            breaking news: Rage uses negative textures.
            in other news: miniature black holes kill hundreds of gamers worldwide.

    • juampa_valve_rde
    • 8 years ago

    -1 to Carmack for not take care of the PC Platform, the one that allowed id Software to be the what it is today.

      • Inverter
      • 8 years ago

      This is capitalism, he doesn’t own the platform anything, no matter the history — it might however be in his own best interest to not make the PC release a lower-quality after-thought.

    • spiked_mistborn
    • 8 years ago

    I preordered Rage and got it on the 5th, but so far I’m still undecided on whether I’m going to actually open it or return it. I’m not a big fan of Gamestop, but at least they have a 30-day return policy which is the only reason that I preordered. I’m running a 5830 CF setup, so maybe I’ll wait to see what the CAP that’s supposed to come out this week will do, but it’s looking like it’s just a nice looking game with not much substance. For $60 I find this hard to justify, especially with Skyrim right around the corner.

    • Prion
    • 8 years ago

    What are UBOs?

      • bhassel
      • 8 years ago

      Apparently, [url=http://www.opengl.org/wiki/Uniform_Buffer_Object<]Uniform Buffer Objects[/url<], which are basically a faster way to pass parameters / data to shaders. Sounds pretty simple in concept at least, so I wonder how they manage to screw it up...

    • Krogoth
    • 8 years ago

    Cry some more, early adopters.

    You are enjoying PC gaming at its finest. Dealing with bugs and game configuration issues that plague release versions.

    You guys keep getting burn time and time again after all these years (yes, even back in 1980s-90s). I don’t understand how you can keep up with it.

      • Meadows
      • 8 years ago

      Ten to fifteen years ago, if a PC game was released and I bought it with a version number like 1.0 or 1.0.1 or whatever, I finished the game [i<]at least once[/i<] (maybe several times) only to NEVER find a bug myself, even if patches DID exist and get deployed. Such examples are Constructor, Theme Hospital, Evolva, Septerra Core, Sacrifice, Carmageddon, Max Payne. Release day came and went, and NO BUGS. I enjoyed those games. The notion that buggy releases should be "expected" and you should adjust yourself accordingly is not sensible. It's what an idiot would do. Little wonder that the comment comes from you.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 8 years ago

        Game developers do not program drivers, and they are not responsible for drivers, or your personal rig. You can’t call rage “buggy”, when it’s the drivers fault. Doing so only shows that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

        That said, I agree that games shouldn’t be released with unplayable bugs. But if you do experience a bug, it’s your responsibility to research how to fix it. Also, you seem to be wearing the nostalgia googles, since there were plenty of buggy games back then, and win9x crashes usually meant a blue screen.

          • Meadows
          • 8 years ago

          [quote<]"it's your responsibility to research how to fix it"[/quote<] No it's not, I'm the consumer. And if it's not fixed, I will stop "consuming". That's how it works.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            So you’re saying that with any software that has a bug, you will simply drop to the ground and assume the fetal position? You don’t think it’s your responsibility at all to go on the internet and download an update? I’m surprised you are capable of browsing the internet. Still using IE? Apparently downloading firefox is too hard, as you expect things to magically install themselves for you on your computer, and then work flawlessly forever without ever needing security patches. I doubt you played older games, despite your list. Win9x was notoriously buggy, and the slightest problem would BSOD the computer. You’re too lazy and whiny to handle a BSOD. BTW, I install stuff for stupid people if you need help, but I charge money.

            Regardless of how much of a “consumer” you are, there are still things that require manual intervention. Get off the internet if you can’t handle simple things like installing updates. Your PC is probably infected with a million viruses.

            Sure, games should be beta tested, and released as bug free as possible, but you can’t account for everything, and problems arise. Either way, it’s your job to download and install updates. Pointing fingers aimlessly gets you nowhere.

            Ironically, rage is a steamworks title, so their updates will automatically install. You still have to manually install drivers, so I guess you’ll have to sell your computer. I’ll buy it off you for $50.

            • Meadows
            • 8 years ago

            I lost interest around the second sentence. Did you say anything interesting?

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            What? You have ADHD? That’s what I thought.

            • Meadows
            • 8 years ago

            The moment you say something that’s important, correct, or even just interesting, I’ll pay full attention.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            I say plenty of good stuff, but what does that matter to someone who’s illiterate? Your reading problem is probably why you’re going around blaming id for something that clearly isn’t their fault. Kudos to Carmack for coming out with a workaround patch faster than AMD can fix their driver. However, a side effect of this will be that when AMD releases a working driver, the workarounds will nullify the fixes, unless the game can detect when the driver isn’t broken, or another patch is released.

            • lilbuddhaman
            • 8 years ago

            It seems that meadows isn’t the only one that is uninterested in what you have to say….

            As well, if the game doesn’t work correctly for a massive number of systems on both the Nvidia and Ati camp, then whose fault is it really ?

            ID’s

            • Chrispy_
            • 8 years ago

            Indeed. ID are trying a lot of new things with their new engine and due to insufficient testing, the paying customers are beta-testing.

            Was there even a Rage beta? I didn’t see one. It all sounds rushed and ill-planned to me at the moment.

            • dashbarron
            • 8 years ago

            This is pretty much how the market works. If you’re not getting the service agreed upon, you stop consuming. Don’t know why l33t likes it any other way.

          • khands
          • 8 years ago

          It is the dev’s responsibility, however, to make sure that what is available to gamers on release day is playable. Making sure your game at least [i<]runs[/i<] on the previously available drivers, if not quite as efficiently as you'd like, else push the game back.

          • Bensam123
          • 8 years ago

          That’s what Carmack was raving about… but I find it hard to believe for graphics cards that work perfectly fine with almost every other game on the market to just downright fail with Rage.

          There is definitely something wrong with that picture and it’s not the graphics card manufacturers. Maybe it has something to do with all the tricks they tried to do in order to make a game look somewhat newer on ancient consoles.

        • Krogoth
        • 8 years ago

        I remember back in day that AAA titles had “issues” at launch. Doom, Heretic, Mechwarrior 2, Quake 1&2, Unreal, Warcraft 2, Starcraft, Fallout 1&2 etc.

        The point is that it is practically impossible for QA to find every bug and issue when they have limited time and hardware to test out every possible configuration that can exist on the PC platform.

          • Meadows
          • 8 years ago

          You “remember” everything like you’re fifty years old. Nothing is good for you.

            • lilbuddhaman
            • 8 years ago

            You do realize that many people here (such as the ones that run this site) are at or near the big 50 mark, right ? And we’ ve been playing games for 25 years, that’s not an insignificant amount of time.

            • Meadows
            • 8 years ago

            I know that, but I also know for a fact that Krogoth isn’t even halfway there and he makes up most of his comments. All in a day’s work for Krogoth.

            I’ve been gaming (on the PC, mainly, but I’ve briefly owned a borrowed NES and a Sega Something in the 90’s) since the age of 4 or 5, I’ve tried every Windows version in existence starting from 3.1, and I’m not exaggerating my opinions regarding the games I have, in fact, tried (despite what leet-gamer is trying to tell everyone).

            I may not be 50 (my first-ever home-owned computer was a 486, courtesy of my dad’s job position), but at least I’m not a moron.

            • Krogoth
            • 8 years ago

            Getting frustrated bro?

            It seems you are suffering from some good, old confirmation bias or just the delightful poison known as nostalgia.

            Issues with PC games at their deputes existed back then. The only difference is that people bitch about on BBS boards and Usenet. PC gaming was also much smaller. So the problems got a lot less exposure. You had to wait a lot longer to get any patches to resolve the issues.

            FYI, I been gaming since the Commodore 128. My first x86 platform was an used IBM XT. I had to deal with the fun that was manual DMA, IRQ and port addressing. You had manually load drivers for your CD-ROM and mouse. You had to play around the conventional memory space (first MiB) to get enough memory to run certain games. In some cases, you had to run a special boot disk. Personally, I don’t miss any of it.

            PC gaming right now is as close you can get with plug and play provided you have a well-supported hardware platform.

            • Meadows
            • 8 years ago

            Keeping myself to last time’s promise, I will not respond to you in any meaningful way until you clear up at least 3 grammar errors.

            • Krogoth
            • 8 years ago

            [url<]http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/12/6/7d9e91fa-92dc-4ade-82df-3739ab499995.jpg[/url<]

            • Meadows
            • 8 years ago

            That’s all you can say.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            Not that you can read, so pictures are the only choice.

            • Krogoth
            • 8 years ago

            You are just afraid of putting yourself in the hot-seat. 😉

          • Bensam123
          • 8 years ago

          Rage has been in development for quite some time. The problems it’s having are NOT niche bugs. Like opening your inventory at the wrong time. I loaded it up on my Radeon 6970 (not a niche or obscure card in the least) and textures were warping all over the place, flicking on the screen, unbearable low frame rates, and there was a definite problem with the world streaming system. I have never seen a game launch this terribly in a long time. It is for all intents and purposes, unplayable.

          This is using the Nvidia PC tweak too.

          It honestly looks like they finished it for the consoles and then did a quick port without doing any sort of QA on it.

    • Deanjo
    • 8 years ago

    Well at least all the bugs should be worked out by the time the linux/osx versions come out. Thank you for all you windows users for your continued debugging of an overpriced game so that us alternative OS users can get it cheaper and relatively bug free (at least with the nvidia blobs).

    • ermo
    • 8 years ago

    Quick poll:

    How many ATi gfx users will wait a month or two for the bugs (whether game or driver related) to be worked out before they buy Rage at a discount?

    If the release is really as bad as all the moaners would have us believe, waiting a little while seems like the only sensible course of action…

    I understand that bad PR is better than no PR, but surely, this must be an id and AMD marketing nightmare; sort of a ‘How NOT to launch a highly hyped AAA title’ type of thing…

    • swaaye
    • 8 years ago

    From what I gleaned from an interesting presentation on the virtual texturing subject, there is a 4X AF limitation to it. There is also a lack of filtering between texture transitions which you can see as shimmering in the game (like poor mip map filtering). As usual computer graphics are compromises, but the unique texturing is awesome so there are some pluses indeed. Now we just need fewer compromises due to storage and RAM limitations…

    [url<]http://nvidia.fullviewmedia.com/gtc2010/0921-a1-2152.html[/url<] (covers virtual texturing and the transcode implementation)

    • PenGun
    • 8 years ago

    I’m not seeing a rage64.exe anywhere. I have a Steam install which updated with the patch the other day. Just Rage.exe in my rage dir.

    • FireGryphon
    • 8 years ago

    Problem: caring as much about frivolous entertainment as some do about having food to eat tonight.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 8 years ago

      So do something about it. It’s not like they’re mutually exclusive.

    • l33t-g4m3r
    • 8 years ago

    All this shows is AMD’s complete inability to put out a working driver. The bug “fixes” are all workarounds for AMD’s incompetence. Blaming id/Carmack for this is asinine. All the “new” menu options were available to you via the config file tweaks, just now it has extra finesse. The patch is basically addressing both the stupidity/laziness of the community, and AMD’s inability to release a working driver, and it looks to have successfully hit the nail on the head.

    The only legitimate issue here is the gameplay, which has mixed reviews. So what? Doom3 had mixed reviews, and I enjoyed it. I’ll be picking this game up as soon as there’s a price drop.

      • bittermann
      • 8 years ago

      Yup, all of Rage’s problems are AMD’s fault…

      u really fail at trolling.

        • Madman
        • 8 years ago

        Well it’s not like Id Software has to write an OpenGL driver for AMD if they only optimize for DirectX because it’s more popular…

        Other that, there seem to be no problems with the game as far as I’ve seen in reviews. Game-play is still good ol’ shooter, and game-play videos look amazing when used on a platform with good drivers.

      • Goty
      • 8 years ago

      “l33t-g4m3r” is a MUCH better programmer than all of those guys at AMD. It’s true, he told me so.

        • Madman
        • 8 years ago

        Well, it doesn’t take you to be a better programmer to understand that AMD fubared their driver launch, does it?

        Moreover, I’ve been programming OpenGL rendering engines for 5 or so years, and I know first hand that it’s a ton easier to work with Nvidia because developer relations are so much better, and they constantly innovate the field.

        AMD used to have very bad drivers, and now they have a good ones for DirectX, but as you see OpenGL is still lacking the quality.

        P.S.: I’m sorry you’re running an AMD card 😉

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 8 years ago

          I used to run ATI exclusively, and they did have terrible OpenGL drivers, but I have never seen this much bitching about it. Even with “quack3”, and that was mostly from the nvidia camp. Back then we dealt with it and waited for the next month’s update. I’m guessing some of the whiners are nvidia converts who didn’t know what they were getting into. Well, now you know. Deal with it. Don’t blame id for AMD’s problems, go bitch at AMD and make them fix the driver. Get vsync fixed too while you’re at it.

          One thing that I’ve noticed with nvidia is poor flash stability. It’s better now, but I’ve never had flash crash this much with ATI, perhaps due to their stronger focus on d3d/video.

        • Deanjo
        • 8 years ago

        It wouldn’t take much to be “better”.

    • tbone8ty
    • 8 years ago

    Need a new poll…

    Worst opening day PC release?

    In recent memory it had to be call of duty black ops, then crysis 2, now Rage

    Any others?

      • JustAnEngineer
      • 8 years ago

      Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines was a buggy mess when first released. The bugs were bad enough to drive Troika under. Former employees finished patching it after the company had folded.

        • BlackStar
        • 8 years ago

        VTMB was released before it was ready because the next edition of the Vampire pen & paper franchise was coming out and they would lose the license to the previous edition (which was what VTMB was based on). They had no choice but to release an unfinished game.

        Bugs or no bugs, VTMB ranks among the very best PC games ever created. A decade later and enthusiasts are still releasing patches and tweaks. The storyline, art, gameplay and sheer atmosphere are well-worth the effort of hunting down a copy.

          • odizzido
          • 8 years ago

          VTMB, despite it’s flaws, is one of the best games ever made. It is such a shame that things didn’t work out for trokia. Forced to release an unfinished game at the same time HL2 came out….I really feel they were a great team with a great game and if they didn’t have such bad luck they would still be going strong. Now we will never get to see what they would have made next 🙁

      • squeeb
      • 8 years ago

      Daikatana

      • blitzy
      • 8 years ago

      tribes2 was abysmal

      • Krogoth
      • 8 years ago

      Battlecruiser 3000 AD

      So much hype from its developer and chief designer (Derek Smart). The game was made of complete failure.

      So many flame wars with Derek Smarts on usenet.

    • tbone8ty
    • 8 years ago

    Jon Carmack FAIL

    This has to be worse than Crysis 2… Wow didn’t realize that was possible

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 8 years ago

    The salt in the wound is the developement time. many games developed inside a 2 year dev cycle fair better at launch than this ages old game.

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 8 years ago

    I hate tearing!!! I’m sorry but it is the most nauseating artifact to see.

      • Arclight
      • 8 years ago

      Idk if fps is for you, cause if that split second frame is the difference between win or fail, i’d take the tearing any day.

    • south side sammy
    • 8 years ago

    A friend of mine tried to play it over the weekend, said it started out good and then it got stupid. He told me not to buy the game… so I won’t.

      • Arclight
      • 8 years ago

      Cool story bro!

      • jacquestrapp
      • 8 years ago

      That’s good advice. It’s very pretty, but the game itself is weak in many, many ways. One of the very first missions is forehead-smackingly stupid: you are told to drive from one town to the next to deliver a list of supplies needed in the first town. When you get to the second down, the mayor says “Oh, the guy in the first town told me you were coming”. Really? Because I drove straight here. Maybe he could have given you the list when he told you that?

      There are lots of moments like that: you’re asked to go somewhere to deliver a message, then after you get back the guy who wanted you to do it says “I heard you delivered my message”. How? Why aren’t you using this system to communicate? It seems faster than having me drive over there.

      There are lots of other things: invisible walls stopping you from stepping off the approved path and exploring the scenery is my least favorite. Ugh.

      It does make me look forward to Fallout 4 though.

        • driller
        • 8 years ago

        Check your inventory, you have a radio to call for a tow in case you get stranded. Perhaps that is how they communicated. I see nothing wrong in being a Courier, perhaps they were afraid the bandits would be listening and find out that the town was low on ammo or something.

        I didn’t like the invisible walls/sealed doors and/or areas either. I suspect some of them will be opened in a DLC.

      • trek205
      • 8 years ago

      its good to see you have someone that does all of your thinking for you.

    • flip-mode
    • 8 years ago

    Crazy suggestion for Carmack: instead of deploying nothing but Nvidia video cards in all of your machines and devoting so much attention and resources to targeting the Nvidia cards, maybe you should deploy at least a few Radeons and try to improve your relations a little with AMD.

    I can’t imagine that AMD has not tried to improve relations with id over the years. And this level of FAIL is pretty unheard of when other games get released – they all seem to work pretty well with Radeons even if they are very, very TWIMTBP. So while there are probably many possibilities for what might have gone wrong with Carmack’s “clusterfudge”, my mind pretty quickly starts turning to the thought that Carmack and id just have some kind of personal problems with AMD and just plain don’t try very hard.

    AMD doesn’t help matters by mixing up the driver release.

    At the end of the day this is also just a video game that people are getting all bent out of shape over – not a real critical thing in any context. So everyone should probably relax a little and just get to the bug smashing and code patching. And Carmack could stand to act a little more professional if not actually be a little more professional, and he could stand to do some better coding for the PC platform.

      • shaq_mobile
      • 8 years ago

      first world problems!

      • yogibbear
      • 8 years ago

      It’s not like the 360 doesn’t contain AMD hardware….

      • Madman
      • 8 years ago

      The problem is that AMD doesn’t have a high quality OpenGL driver. They have tweaked the DirectX one, but not OpenGL.

        • bittermann
        • 8 years ago

        Cuz 99% of the games that have come out the last few years have used DirectX. Where would you spend most of your resources on in that case?

          • swaaye
          • 8 years ago

          I guess NVIDIA thinks there are other reasons than games then?

            • Madman
            • 8 years ago

            Yes, they have a lot more customers with professional cards Quadro and Teslas?. They are basically OpenGL.

            CAD etc. has always been more OpenGL friendly.

            • bittermann
            • 8 years ago

            I thought we were talking about games here? Rage is a game, not a professional application. I guess you and madman know better where to spend the R&D money than AMD does…

            • Madman
            • 8 years ago

            Waitaminute… We are talking about driver that should work with OpenGL specification as published here: [url<]http://www.opengl.org/documentation/specs/[/url<] So you're suggesting they can skip implementation of one of the core graphic libraries and spend their R&D dollars on improving benchmarks in DirectX or something? While you might hate OpenGL because of Microsoft FUD, it's actually an equally powerful platform available on Linux, Mac and Windows that has a wide user base. The fact that you only buy Microsoft biased games doesn't excuse AMD to write sloppy drivers for everything else.

            • swaaye
            • 8 years ago

            AMD advertises full OpenGL 4.1 compliance on their Radeon line so I think it’s ok to expect a major OpenGL game release to work on day 1. Maybe it’s inconvenient for them to be asked to do so but the use of OpenGL makes Rage potentially more portable and that’s a plus for end users. The game does use some form of Direct3D on Xbox 360 however so the engine is quite flexible in renderers I guess.

            • bittermann
            • 8 years ago

            Maybe they realized that Rage was going to be a huge turd on the pc and tried to save it’s customers $60…think about it. 🙂

          • Madman
          • 8 years ago

          Nvidia can do this, AMD cannot do this.

        • flip-mode
        • 8 years ago

        That is very likely a large part of the problem, at least initially, but I’m still left with the feeling that Carmack has played his own role in the situation in some way. Does he get on the phone to AMD people ever? Does he try to establish and maintain a few key contacts inside AMD? Does he keep AMD fully in the loop at all of the critical times during game development? Does he keep 10 or 20 percent of his workstations running some Radeons? Is he really trying to make the AMD experience as good as possible, or is he just trying to make it good enough?

        If he’s running 100% Nvidia inside his own shop, then much of this is his own damn fault, because he’s the developer and he’s going to be the first to know what he needs from the video driver and he’s going the be the only one that can tell anybody. But if he’s not running any Radeons or if he doesn’t start testing them untill too late in the process then that’s a pretty daft way of operating.

        On the other hand, it could be that Nvidia is willing to do more development aid than AMD. It could be that AMD didn’t want to spend any more time on the driver than necessary. It could be that AMD scoffed at OpenGL (that would not surprise me).

        Anything is possible here but Carmack’s past comments and policies keep coming to mind, while there is nothing that AMD has overtly said or done to draw out the same level of suspicion.

          • Ryu Connor
          • 8 years ago

          Everyone focuses on Carmack’s driver comments, but I find the tiny little nugget of discussion about hardware concessions more interesting.

          What was the RADEON HD series (4K, 5K, or 6K) unable to do (or unable to do quickly) that required him to tweak the rendering path specifically for them?

            • flip-mode
            • 8 years ago

            CUDA

            • Ryu Connor
            • 8 years ago

            Is a software programming language that allows a developer to access the hardware of the GPU.

            That still doesn’t answer the question, but it is glib.

    • Dingmatt
    • 8 years ago

    Ever since Rage started development the term ‘id views..’ and ‘its Carmack’s view that..’ have been used a lot…

    Its about time for someone to turn around and kindly explain to them that there views aren’t the ones that matter and to get on with what the gamer’s want.

    When your ego’s got so big that you believe you can tell the community what to think, that’s the day “a real cluster !@#$,” like Rage get released.

      • cupojava
      • 8 years ago

      It pains me to say this, but id Software is no longer relevant.

      Now if it were “Valve views…” or “it’s Newell’s view” then I would start paying attention.

        • shaq_mobile
        • 8 years ago

        Well, I wouldn’t completely dismiss everything Carmack says. Besides, the last few id games have been obligatory at best. Seems like half of what they do is to remind us that they’re not dead yet. What’s really surprising is that this is a debut of their new engine (right? I haven’t really been paying attention) and it was plagued with problems. Doom 3 may have been boring and a far cry from its precursors but at least I could change the graphics settings.

        • Madman
        • 8 years ago

        Valve only associates with Steam to me nowadays, I haven’t seen anything more modernish that a year 2001 graphics from them.

        Id games have always been technologically superior. And Rage is on my wishlist, I’ll buy it as a hard-copy as soon as price drops to a little bit saner level. Screenshots and videos from in-game seem to be amazing, and TR report as well.

        It’s not Ids fault that AMD only optimizes for DirectX and cannot deploy their OpenGL drivers correctly.

        And Ids engine seems to be a good platform for Fallout, etc type of games.

        • Dingmatt
        • 8 years ago

        Yep, I share the same view.

        With Rage its not just a console port, they’ve actually tried to turn PC’s into consoles; this whole ‘you will all play my game with the same settings at 60fps’ is stupid; such a waste of resources is almost heartbreaking.

        p.s. on a more personal note, playing at 60fps on a 120Hz screen can make your eyes bleed at times.

          • Madman
          • 8 years ago

          While it saddens me that Rage is also affected by consolitis, the engine is actually something nor Valve, nor Epic can even come close to.

          Id have ported their engine all the way down to the iPhone and up to a PC, and they also bring an uniquely textured world with no stupid tiling and patterns that is noticeable in most games.

          Carmack is still a technical genius.

          Every time Id game comes out it brings something completely new to the table. You just have to understand some technicalities to appreciate that.

            • bittermann
            • 8 years ago

            What Carmack has done is amazing as far as the engine goes…but, as far as I’m concerned the biggest failure was in hyping-advertising the game to be an epic open ended fps/rpg than what it is in reality, a linear fps demo for the ID Tech5 engine. You can blame the graphic drivers all you want, but in the end it’s ID’s game that is the true let down.

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]but in the end it's ID's game that is the true let down.[/quote<] Wouldn't it be nice however to be able to run the game to make that conclusion?

            • Dingmatt
            • 8 years ago

            Indeed the MegaTexture implementation of clipmapping is definitely a leap ahead of current texturing idea’s but on the other hand why put all the effort into this tech to build it on outdated OpenGL; yes its more universally compatible between the consoles but the worlds moved on.

            Its DirectX which fuels the development of the current graphics hardware and the drivers which run them, failure to realize that just shows a stubborn mind.

            Some of the tech in Rage is awesome but it could have been so much more.

            • Madman
            • 8 years ago

            The idea that OpenGL is outdated is only because of Microsoft FUD.

            DirectX and OpenGL are neck a neck when it comes to what they can do. It’s just that Microsoft has found a way to get developers onto DirectX wagon.

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            Well there was a period of time where oGL was stuck @ 2.1. During those days DX was indeed pulling away until oGL 4 came around.

            • Dingmatt
            • 8 years ago

            Agreed but the point I was trying to make is that for the past couple of years GFX cards have had DirectX shortcuts built into them on a hardware level further more there architectural design has been directly influenced by DirectX; the same can’t be said for OpenGL (not to the same level).

            • Deanjo
            • 8 years ago

            Actually Epics engine has scaled from PC to iPhone as well and is probably the premiere engine on iOS.

    • Meadows
    • 8 years ago

    “Smart” vsync is a fantastic idea (why didn’t anyone else think of this before?), but the coarseness of the other options irritates me.

      • Airmantharp
      • 8 years ago

      I’m hoping that Lucid’s solution makes it to market… and I’m with you.

      For online FPS’ (CS:S, BF:BC2, BF3 etc) I have to turn vsync off to minimize input lag, but for offline FPS like Mass Effect and other games like SC2 I can leave it on. Not having to choose would be really nice.

      • BlackStar
      • 8 years ago

      It’s a very well-known solution. Almost all console games use it.

      Myself, I first saw this back in 2007 or so and I’ve coded it into every graphics-related application I’ve ever written since.

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