Steve Jobs Day Shortbread

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Steve Jobs Day

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Mobile

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Comments closed
    • mattthemuppet
    • 8 years ago

    so,
    Steve Jobs: remembered for getting a company to make lots of nice shiny gadgets everyone goes crazy over
    Bill Gates: will (hopefully) be remembered for funding a cure for malaria and TB, potentially saving millions of lives.

    hmm, which one would I want to emulate?

    • mutarasector
    • 8 years ago

    Soooo, when does the Governor declare a “Dennis Ritchie Day”?

      • NeelyCam
      • 8 years ago

      Dennis Ritchie is a nobody compared to Steve Jobs, Bill Gates or even Lionel Ritchie.

        • mutarasector
        • 8 years ago

        As a media figure, I agree. But Dennis Ritchie was to modern computing what Tesla was to electricity.

        But as a society, we seem to value the showman more than the engineers/architects.

    • PeterD
    • 8 years ago

    Please, give us a Dennis Ritchie Day!

    By the way: lots of people died this year which were important for the development of the pc.

      • Flatland_Spider
      • 8 years ago

      Dennis should get a week. 🙂

    • Kurotetsu
    • 8 years ago

    What’s really sad is that we’ll never see a Dennis Ritchie Day, despite the fact that he and his colleagues invented modern software.

      • Geistbar
      • 8 years ago

      Or even some of the visible people that made modern, or even basic, computing possible. No Turing day, no von Neumann day. Not even a Tesla day; it would be fairly difficult to operate a computer without widespread access to electricity, after all…

        • Metonymy
        • 8 years ago

        gerbils… gerbils are the answer.

    • south side sammy
    • 8 years ago

    Maybe it’s just me but every time I see another video of BC3 I seem to like the game less………. the MP end anyways. Be nice to see some different SP action.

    anybody know that fat guy in the last picture ? I think he stole my monitor.

    • destroy.all.monsters
    • 8 years ago

    Never underestimate Jerry Brown’s ability to capitalize on current events for his own best interest.

    Jobs was a terrible person and not someone to emulate. This is the wrong message to send to people – “earn enough money and no matter what you do and how horrible you are people will laud you as if you were a great man and not a cold blooded tyrant”.

    I respect some of what he did – particularly in resurrecting Apple (and I was in awe of the NeXT and hoped Nextstep would have some legs) , I’d have liked to have seen him live to see the new campus built – but he could have made a real difference in the way workers are treated worldwide – and in not farming everything out to child laborers in China.

    I never thought I’d consider Bill Gates a decent person. Never. Yet he,largely under Melinda’s influence, has risen above simply being a money grubbing individual – and monopolist – and can see that there is more to life. That’s something far more laudable.

    I find the canonisation of Jobs loathesome. Without all the talented people that he used, Xerox PARC, Avie Tevanian, ad nauseum he’d have been no one.

      • Geistbar
      • 8 years ago

      I completely agree. I don’t remember my opinion on Gates ever shifting significantly (though I was fairly young during the height of Microsoft’s less popular years), but over time he has definitely shown himself to be a person wanting to change the world for the better. It’s really impressive when you notice that he isn’t just going through the motions; he doesn’t toss $20 billion at a charity, tell it to do stuff and call it a day. He’s actually fairly / heavily involved with the charity efforts, doing his part to make it work. Converting Buffet, so to speak, to his cause was also a great success. By the time their charity efforts are done, they should have donated over $100 billion.

      While I also agree on that Jobs is being way over-idolized, I’d disagree that his success being reliant on the intelligence of others is a failing. Very few great people have become great solely, or nearly solely, on their own efforts. The only example to the contrary I can think of is Nikola Tesla, but even he greatly benefited from his relationship with George Westinghouse.

        • destroy.all.monsters
        • 8 years ago

        Totally agree with you in re: Gates. I remember being rabidly pro break up of Microsoft back in the day – and that when they decided to battle Linux through SCO and patents that they couldn’t become worse. Instead they became competitive and expanded into different areas (also thanks to Ballmer and others) and stop trying to own everything. I don’t know how much of that is Gates’s doing but his support of Ballmer (and insistence on bringing in many of the best and brightest – including Ray Ozzie, Sinofsky etc.) shows that he still is watching his baby.

        Jobs’s success isn’t a failing – the great man concept is the failing, really. If anything Jobs was a gifted, though paranoid and unpleasant, manager. He was not this great innovator or inventor as he is being portrayed. He is to blame in that he rarely gave credit where credit was due – and in absorbing the glory for himself. I completely agree with both your last sentences (though Westinghouse was given credit by Tesla and I don’t think he ever forgot what Westinghouse did for him – compare to Jobs with Amelio and Hancock as well as many many others).

      • mutarasector
      • 8 years ago

      Agree w/you totally on that one. Jobs was the ultimate demanding petulant consumer who simply demanded what he wanted and got it no matter what.

      EDIT: To put a finer point on it, Job’s real ‘genius’ was largely an attitude that what he wanted as a consumer is what most consumers would want. Generally he was correct, however I also suspect he did so out of a control freak nature paired with a bit of marketing savvy than any true ‘genius’ or ‘vision’.

      +22 for speaking the truth in TR thread? Pretty good – Lemme add “1” real quick…

    • krazyredboy
    • 8 years ago

    [url<]http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs[/url<]

      • NeelyCam
      • 8 years ago

      Good article, but blaming Apple for Foxconn/Hon Hai Precision Industry is a bit dishonest. [i<]All[/i<] the big names in computers are using Foxconn... but Apple gets repeatedly singled out - probably (but unfairly) because of their success. The truth is that Foxconn is a result of capitalism - the more you can screw the employees to cut your cost, the more successful you shall be. Even if/when chinese salaries will start affecting the profits, the will be other places like Malasya to pick up the slack. If it really gets tough, North Korea or Burma/Myanmar to the rescue.. A lot of the blame is on the consumer. Unless they are willing to pay 2-3x the price for their "consumables" to make it evil-free, they are part of the problem.

        • Althernai
        • 8 years ago

        Apple gets singled out because of their high margins. When people buy Apple’s products, they are [i<]already[/i<] paying 2x the price -- the margins on the iPhone are something like 60%. They could increase the salaries without impacting the price (Foxconn did it at one point because the number of suicides was getting out of hand), but they won't because it would slightly lower the margin.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 8 years ago

        [quote<]Foxconn is a result of capitalism[/quote<] That's one of the most misconcieved comments I've ever seen. Foxconn is a corporatist business in a mostly communist country. Nothing to do with a free market, or capitalism. Corporations are not free markets, and have a monopoly on goods backed by government force. ""Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini" We really don't live in a free country anymore. [url<]http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article7260.htm[/url<] [url<]http://www.libertyzone.com/Communist-Manifesto-Planks.html[/url<] You are free to do as we tell you. [url<]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mssKE_b48k[/url<]

          • Geistbar
          • 8 years ago

          Regardless of Foxconn’s particular point of origin, I am pretty sure NeelyCam meant the contracting out to Foxconn was due to capitalism; corporations chose the manufacturer with the lowest total costs to them. He even points out that the country of place hardly matters, giving examples of other places where cheap manufacturing can be made. Many, if not all, of the corporations that are paying Foxconn to build their products originate from countries with a capitalist economy. If history had gone a bit differently, there could have been an Indian (or Nigerian, or Malaysian, or…) Foxconn instead, which would have worked more or less exactly the same.

          I would also be reticent to describe China as having a purely communist (i.e. state planned and owned) based economy for quite some years. From all I’ve read on it, most modern “communist” countries would be more accurately described as a single party authoritarian state.

          Also, current and former communist states were “not free” not because they were communist, but because they were authoritarian governments. I see no reason to link to political sites, mention “the free market” (as, while often linked with capitalism, the two of them are not mutually inclusive) or bring up the merits or failings of communism in a sub-topic going over the faults of Foxconn’s worker conditions and whether or not Apple (and more specifically, Steve Jobs) has any noteworthy responsibility for such.

          • albundy
          • 8 years ago

          totally agree with you, but equality doesn’t drive the market and economy. there has to be another means, but unfortunately, corporatism is all there is, as companies get greedy, FAST!…and want to compete. get ready for 24 hour work days!

            • Ringofett
            • 8 years ago

            All this complaining about talk about “greed” and “evil”, but evil and greedy capitalism seeking low wages has lifted about a billion people from absolute poverty over the last 10, 15 years. Wages in China are off like a rocket; places like Vietnam are already benefiting. Evil, greedy capitalism has put China, India and others on the track to becoming middle-income nations, and has done a better job of it than poor countries flirtation with socialism and trade protectionism/autarky ever did.

            The fact that abuses may happen is par for the course, as they still happen in the US. Companies still dodge safety and other regulations here, including just sloppy workmanship; can we say Gulf oil spill?

            So it’s not pretty, but it doesn’t deserve the ire pointed towards it. It’s lifting Asia up the income scale, and once companies move to Africa, the world will finally start the final march to eradicating North Korea and Ethiopean levels of poverty. Not to mention, as people become wealthier, they tend to get more interested in democracy — or at least less corruption.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            This is our wealth being funneled into those countries when we still have poverty here and a high degree of economic injustice not to mention unemployment that you cannot even live off of.

            You’re trying to make this ponies and rainbows – and it just isn’t so.

          • destroy.all.monsters
          • 8 years ago

          Fascism != communism. In fact they are exact opposites.

          That libertyzone site is about the stupidest thing I have ever read.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 8 years ago

            No, the two are very similar as they both want state control over the means of production. True Communism doesn’t exist, never has, never will. Communism always devolves into a state where the little people have nothing and are slaves to the state, then fascism takes over. Read some history. Nazi Germany. Night of the Long Knives. Democracy is a train that takes you to your destination, then you get off.
            [quote<]The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ...We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. ...In almost every act of our daily lives, whether in the sphere of politics or business, in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons...who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires which control the public mind.[/quote<]- Bernays [url<]http://orwellsky-en.blogspot.com/2011/09/100-year-old-cartoons.html[/url<] [quote<]Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II, the term fascist has been used as a pejorative word,[47] often referring to widely varying movements across the political spectrum.[48] George Orwell wrote in 1944 that "the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless ... almost any English person would accept 'bully' as a synonym for 'Fascist'".[/quote<] [quote<]This term is sometimes used to describe communist states because of their single-party totalitarian stance in politics.[/quote<] In theory, fascim and communism oppose each other, but in practice the two are intermixed as a false left-right paradigm. They are just tools that the elite use to rule the world, and stay in control no matter what happens, like financing both sides of a war. The only real alternative is freedom. Unalienable rights, and sovereignty of the individual. The American way as intended by the founders, is the only answer to the slavery of other forms of government.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            The Nazis were not communists, never were, and in fact hated the communists – all communists. Many of them were in the Freikorps who exterminated the Munchen soviet and other left wing displays of discontent over the Weimar republic.

            You should actually read the source materials before espousing a political position, particularly one as tenuous as yours.

            The elites will control no matter what system we’re under. You have to keep them in fear for their lives or welfare to keep them from eating your lunch. Your so-called libertarianism will do absolutely nothing about that.

            “The only real alternative is freedom. Unalienable rights, and sovereignty of the individual. ”

            So you’re an anarchist now? Yeah that’s workable. The very definition of whoever the most powerful is making the rules.

            “The American way as intended by the founders, is the only answer to the slavery of other forms of government.”

            That’s a ridiculous comment. American exceptionalism is claptrap. Are people in Scandanavia, western Europe, less free? Less happy? No. Our form of government, much to the chagrin of many, is exactly what we’ve made it. If you think that the founders were superheroes you’re nuts.

            You’ve already stated that you think any taxation is slavery by providing that link. A fundamentally insane world view if ever I’ve seen it – and one intended to make you confused and unable to address the real problems at hand. Economic injustice is, and will continue to destroy this country as it has in every other country in the world where it occurs.

        • kitsura
        • 8 years ago

        I supposed we should not blame walmart then for all the unhealthy food being stocked in the popular isles.

        • mutarasector
        • 8 years ago

        “The truth is that Foxconn is a result of communist co-opted (pure greed) capitalism…”

        I fixed your sentence for ya…

          • destroy.all.monsters
          • 8 years ago

          Oh so our capitalism is much better? Really? Time to go read some history books pal.

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            Yes, generally it is. I don’t see American workers living above their workplaces or jumping out of windows at their factories. Maybe you need to bone up on yer current events and read a few more newspapers…

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            You don’t see a direct parallel between workplace violence here and workplace violence in China? Why?

            Most are blinded by propaganda and a misguided form of patriotism when they differentiate our country with another – and the vast majority have never been elsewhere making their comments specious at best.

            Having been to other countries where homelessness is rare to non-existent, and seeing how much better the average person lives under those circumstances brings home the point that it is indeed rare among first world nations that people are valued so poorly and property valued so much as in the US.

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            I know a good source of straw for those strawmen of yours. Use enough of it, and they might be able to hold your goal post stationary. Going from capitalism to workplace violence as fast as you did, I feel like jelly against a bulkhead in a starship with a defective structural integrity field…

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            Which strawmen would those be? Last I heard no one was sure that the people at Foxconn jumped and that they may well have had assistance. Unrestrained capitalism is provably bad to the people under it.

            More importantly you’ve done nothing to prove how capitalism in China is worse than it is here as opposed to being the problems inherently _in_ capitalism.

            I put a lot of info in that last post – the least you could do is delineate a bit where you have a problem with what I said.

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]Which strawmen would those be? Last I heard no one was sure that the people at Foxconn jumped and that they may well have had assistance. Unrestrained capitalism is provably bad to the people under it[/quote<] The strawmen that deflected from my main point about a communist government that has co-opted capitalism more for its own purpose than its people. How many new millionaires has capitalism produced in China as compared to this and other countries? How many technological innovations/inventions result from China's capitalism compared to the U.S.? Why do they need to keep stealing our defense technology such as missile guidance systems data on a hard drive, and have more unlicensed copies of windows than any other country, or have to open fake Apple stores if their capitalism is soooooooo much better? Your other strawman was automatically skewed and biased in a comparative one to our form of capitalism, when I simply pointed out a corrupted/co-opted nature of their capitalism, and didn't even raise a comparative issue. *You* were the first to take the discussion to an international false dichotomy, not me. [quote<]More importantly you've done nothing to prove how capitalism in China is worse than it is here as opposed to being the problems inherently _in_ capitalism.[/quote<] Capitalism is not "inherently" flawed - >people< are. Corrupted, perverted, crony capitalism is, but essentially, capitalism (particularly that which has been employed in this country) is what has produced the vast majority of new wealth, and made improvements in our lifestyles/standards of living for over a century. Your old europe socialist view is simply skewed to such a degree that it continually tries to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' with a socialist mindset. [quote<]I put a lot of info in that last post - the least you could do is delineate a bit where you have a problem with what I said.[/quote<] Hope I've done that with my responses above. The problem I have with some of what you said was that it seemed largely influenced by a propagandized view/distortion of capitalism so predominate these days by people generally under 30 and less life experience to have observed enough history to know better (hence my 'occupy wall street' remark).

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            “The strawmen that deflected from my main point about a communist government that has co-opted capitalism more for its own purpose than its people.”

            You didn’t make a point – you made a statement to that effect and provided nothing to back it up. You still have provided nothing substantive to back it up.

            “How many new millionaires has capitalism produced in China as compared to this and other countries? How many technological innovations/inventions result from China’s capitalism compared to the U.S.?”

            You may have these answers – and even think that they are somehow relevant even if you do (which I doubt. You haven’t done your research on the rest of your commentary) . I do not. Nor do they underscore a point that purports to claim that capitalism is any different anywhere. Here’s a free tip – it isn’t. The primary difference is that we’ve been through the labor struggles and de-monopolization of the early 1900s which is a phase they have yet to go through. Labor struggles in which many lives were lost as corporations declared open warfare on their employees. [Now only the tactics have changed.]

            “Capitalism is not “inherently” flawed – >people< are. ”

            No. Everything is flawed and so is capitalism. It isn’t a great shining beacon of freedom or anything else. You are treating it as a religion which it is not. _You_ have faith in capitalism because you have taken it on as a personal savior and imbued it with magical powers it does not have.

            Capitalism is also inherently flawed because without intervention it always leads to monopoly. Always. This would be akin to me supporting communism based solely on the merits of the writings of Marx and Engels rather than how it works out in the real world. [The difference being of course that Marxism is inherently a utopianist and idealistic world view and capitalism is about greed and the self.] You, rather conveniently I might add, want to take reality out of the equation.

            “Your old europe socialist view is simply skewed to such a degree that it continually tries to ‘throw the baby out with the bathwater’ with a socialist mindset.”

            So first I’m under 30 and now I’m an old world (nice smear there. Don’t tell me – no other country has anything to tell us. Am I right?) socialist? Which is it?

            Pro tip – neither. Nor have I ever said that capitalism wasn’t a necessary evil – it most assuredly is. There is no economy in the world that is not a mixed economy and I find it highly unlikely there will ever be a successful economy without both the facets of a command economy and capitalism. The results are too devastating without both. The difference is that you worship capitalism and I see it as something that needs a very tight leash kept on it.

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            “No. Everything is flawed and so is capitalism. It isn’t a great shining beacon of freedom or anything else. You are treating it as a religion which it is not. _You_ have faith in capitalism because you have taken it on as a personal savior and imbued it with magical powers it does not have.”

            You miss the point entirely. I see capitalism as a >tool<, nothing more. It is not a goal, or end unto itself. I simply see it as a fundamentally more motivating system to work and live under because it provides potent incentives is more realistic and based on self determination and self interest than Marx’s, Engels’, or socialist idealism/utopian views are. Capitalism does not necessarily demand pure greed, nor is all self-interest pure greed. People misapplying principles of capitalism do that – it’s not the ‘fault’ of capitalism itself however. The system does not need regulation, but the people abusing it do.

            “Capitalism is also inherently flawed because without intervention it always leads to monopoly. Always.”

            Incorrect, capitalism is not inherently flawed. It’s incorrect to call it “inherently flawed”. By your reasoning >electricity< is also inherently flawed. It’ll heat your water, food, cool your beer/wine… it’ll also kill your 3 year old daughter if she sticks a finger in a socket, so it must be >evil<, right?

            ” This would be akin to me supporting communism based solely on the merits of the writings of Marx and Engels rather than how it works out in the real world. [The difference being of course that Marxism is inherently a utopianist and idealistic world view and capitalism is about greed and the self.] You, rather conveniently I might add, want to take reality out of the equation.”

            Again, I simply disagree with your moralizing over capitalism. It’s neutral itself, and is not all about greed and self any more than spaghetti sauce w/o tomatoes is still spaghetti sauce.

            “So first I’m under 30 and now I’m an old world (nice smear there. Don’t tell me – no other country has anything to tell us. Am I right?) socialist? Which is it?”

            Suppose you you tell us? If it walks like a duck, squawks like a duck…

            “Pro tip – neither. Nor have I ever said that capitalism wasn’t a necessary evil”

            ‘Evil’? Moralizing again, I see.

            ” it most assuredly is. There is no economy in the world that is not a mixed economy and I find it highly unlikely there will ever be a successful economy without both the facets of a command economy and capitalism. The results are too devastating without both. The difference is that you worship capitalism and I see it as something that needs a very tight leash kept on it.Edited 3 time(s). Last edit by destroy.all.monsters on Oct 19 at 08:09 AM.”

            No, the only folks that need a tight leash on it are those that seek to co-opt and control it and others. It itself is based more on principles of liberty, and self determination. The >people< operating under it need the restraint, not the fundamental principles of capitalism itself.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            Thanks for ducking my points. Some clear and quick logical fallacies I will dismiss:

            Capitalism is not a tool it’s an economic principle. It is not analogous to electricity or fire or any other non-man made element. That’s a ridiculous comment to make.

            It is a proven fact that unrestrained capitalism leads to monopoly. You would have to dismiss every single occurance in order to support this view (which is what you’re doing rather than looking at the facts). Further there would have been no need for the Sherman anti-trust act (and acts like it worldwide) if unrestrained capitalism did not lead directly to monopolies.

            “It itself is based more on principles of liberty, and self determination”

            Not even the most rabid University of Chicago’s free marketeers believe that. Here is where you cross the line completely into worshiping capitalism as a religion. And if you still don’t get the point remember when Alan Greenspan – a hardcore anti-regulation free marketeer whose personal idol was Ayn Rand (a woman that died penniless and on welfare) said he was wrong. Because he was wrong. The beliefs he had held his entire life were wrong. This is a man that made damn sure that derivatives would not and could not be regulated – and it took the crash of 2008 – one long predicted by others – to wake up and smell the coffee.

            I’m done. Your failure to grasp reality and to cling to doctrinaire ideology based on absolutely nothing other than right wing propaganda does you a disservice.

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            “Thanks for ducking my points. Some clear and quick logical fallacies I will dismiss:”

            You seem to misunderstand the difference between ‘ducking’ your points, and simply >disagreeing< with them. I know your reading comprehension is better than that.

            “Capitalism is not a tool it’s an economic principle. It is not analogous to electricity or fire or any other non-man made element. That’s a ridiculous comment to make”

            Absolutely not. Capitalism in practice is an exercise of principles – a >classic< tool. I don’t know what lexicon you’re using, but….

            “It is a proven fact that unrestrained capitalism leads to monopoly.”

            Goal post shift. First, you paint with a broad brush of simply ‘capitalism’ = ‘evil’, and then you qualify
            your use with _unrestrained_. I’ve never disagreed with unrestrained capitalism leading to bad things, I simply don’t assign any moral value to capitalism as a principle, tool or whatever you prefer to call it.

            “You would have to dismiss every single occurance in order to support this view (which is what you’re doing rather than looking at the facts). Further there would have been no need for the Sherman anti-trust act (and acts like it worldwide) if unrestrained capitalism did not lead directly to monopolies.”

            Back to the electricity analogy, conducting electrical wires need a form of ‘restraint’ known as insulators, otherwise they will either shock someone, arc out and start a fire, etc. Yet we still don’t moralize over electricity. Is electricity >dangerous< if ‘unrestrained’ by insulation? Of course,
            it is. Capitalism is no different.

            “It itself is based more on principles of liberty, and self determination”

            “Not even the most rabid University of Chicago’s free marketeers believe that. Here is where you cross the line completely into worshiping capitalism as a religion. And if you still don’t get the point remember when Alan Greenspan – a hardcore anti-regulation free marketeer whose personal idol was Ayn Rand (a woman that died penniless and on welfare) said he was wrong. Because he was wrong. The beliefs he had held his entire life were wrong. This is a man that made damn sure that derivatives would not and could not be regulated – and it took the crash of 2008 – one long predicted by others – to wake up and smell the coffee.”

            Oops… I just felt another bump due to structural integrity field fluctuation… another strawman, eh?

            capitalism = derivatives?!?! Gotcha…

            “I’m done…”

            Promises, promises…

            “…Your failure to grasp (my) reality and to cling to doctrinaire ideology based on absolutely nothing other than right wing propaganda does you a disservice.”

            I fixed that sentence forya too. Oh, and you were done before you started…

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]Which strawmen would those be? Last I heard no one was sure that the people at Foxconn jumped and that they may well have had assistance. Unrestrained capitalism is provably bad to the people under it. [/quote<] [url<]http://tyglobalist.org/blogs/with-jobs-death-an-ambivalent-legacy-in-asia/[/url<] "Most are familiar with the 2010 suicides at Foxconn, a manufacturing affiliate of Apple in Taiwan, but less-known is the fact that Apple had heard about labor abuses at Foxconn as early as 2006. An inhuman workload, teeming company dorms, and a draconian system of discipline pushed 18 Foxconn employees to suicide. Security guards conducted cruel and humiliating interrogations on one such worker before his suicide over the alleged theft of an iPhone prototype, a clear consequence of pressure from the top to prevent leaks." "Apple has admitted that child labour was used at the factories that build its computers, iPods and mobile phones." " Still, it maintained contracts with companies that “shipped hazardous waste to unqualified disposal companies" "Of its many Chinese suppliers, only 61% adhered to injury-prevention regulations, and only 65% paid their staff their full wages and benefits. In its corporate guidelines, Apple sets a 60 hour week maximum limit, which is not only regularly broken by its contractors but also stands in violation of China’s own 49 hour week limit." "In the crowds of people coming to Apple Stores across Asia to pay their respects, I wonder if any of them appreciate that behind the gloss of high technology and smooth PR lies the cold reality of exploitation. It strikes me as ironic that the company that has come to embody progress and clean design depends so completely on such feudal work practices. " The Sum up "Steve Jobs’ legacy, especially in Asia, is defined by his fundamentally new take on technology. Strange, then, how his company’s practices clearly reinforced the status quo."

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            In another thread we both agreed that Apple had not done its fair share. No one is disputing that.

            Also as I stated elsewhere China is roughly where the US was vis a vis labor and capitalism in the 1900s-early 1930s. Not a single thing you’ve pointed out hasn’t happened as a result of capitalism both here and abroad.

        • destroy.all.monsters
        • 8 years ago

        ” A lot of the blame is on the consumer. Unless they are willing to pay 2-3x the price for their “consumables” to make it evil-free, they are part of the problem.”

        This is untrue. The markup for workers, despite disinformation being spread otherwise, is not that high. Imported cars from all over the world are sent here and are still competitive price wise – even when they come from Germany one of the best countries in the world to live and work. Labor pay has been flat to losing against inflation in this country for over thirty years while executive pay and perks have gone up astronomically. Blaming the lowest link in the chain has become de rigeur in right wing polemics because it keeps you from examining what’s really going on.

          • mutarasector
          • 8 years ago

          So go to an occupy wall street rally, and maybe you’ll feel better.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            Whether I do or not doesn’t make the point invalid or untrue.

            • mutarasector
            • 8 years ago

            Oh I didn’t say your point was invalid or untrue. I simply think the notion that the consumer is partly to blame is also a valid one.

            I also think that to deny consumer responsibility is a bit like those wall street protesters that really don’t have a clue as to what they’re really protesting and their failure to grasp the contradictions between their protestations of wall street all the while wanting want wall street profitable enough to ‘share the wealth’ with them.

            I have no idea whether you do or not, but your arguments so far appear to be as sound as some of the responses from those young skulls full of mush in some ‘man in the street’ interviews at of those protests…

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            Sure the consumer is partly to blame – but it’s a tiny amount in comparison. Particularly when the game being played is being done by all the major corporations. It’s a question of degree – it’s a sleight of hand by the right wing (and largely right wing media talking heads – nearly all of whom are funded by the Koch brothers) to try to avoid any kind of (entirely valid) criticism and culpability.

            “your arguments so far appear to be as sound as some of the responses from those young skulls full of mush in some ‘man in the street’ interviews at of those protests…”

            Considering you’ve given me no fodder better to chew upon I don’t see your point. If there’s something in particular you want to address I’m all ears, in as much as text has ears anyway.

          • NeelyCam
          • 8 years ago

          I was exaggerating to make a point. But note that you don’t see many PCs, tablets or phones being manufactured in Germany… anymore. Siemens couldn’t compete with the cost structure possible by manufacturing in Asia.

          Your car example doesn’t really fit. BMW and MB cost significantly more than “average” cars in the USA, and their volumes are well below the volumes of iPads/iPhones etc. Low-volume luxury items don’t have to squeeze out every bit of cost to make them profitable.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 8 years ago

            Total fluke that I saw this.

            I get that you were exaggerating – but right behind you will be a million folks that are fed by right wing media stating the exact same thing and believing it – which is why I felt it necessary to respond.

            Regarding my car analogy – BMW and Mercedes are not the only German cars sold and imported – or even built using US labor – here. There’s VW (who owns Audi) and others and the cost difference is rarely above 30 percent. However my point was specifically that it doesn’t cost *that much more* than to do it in Asia when you get past everything. Plus there are real – if unaccounted – costs in doing business outside your own country and adding to pollution, global warming and misery elsewhere. We can shuttle all kinds of work to Asia where there are few environmental protections and even fewer labor protections – but it catches up with all of us in the end.

            As per Siemens, German companies, making tech goods on the continent: it’s certainly gotten worse. I doubt there’s a motherboard made anywhere but Asia at this point. I do know Nokia did make a good deal of their phones on the continent but I’m unsure if that’s true any more.

            However it isn’t just a strict cost issue – there are also a variety of treaties undercutting local manufacture of goods thanks to the World Trade Organization, GATT etc. The thing is that it is so complicated now that pointing at a single causal factor is nearly impossible. The point being that there has to be the political will to ensure local manufacture of goods – and not just blaming the consumer – when realistically since all the corporations are playing the same games – there’s really no choice to be had.

      • Hattig
      • 8 years ago

      Oh surprise, a negative story about Apple from Gawker.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 8 years ago

        Attack the source, not the content – well played.

          • sweatshopking
          • 8 years ago

          it’s pretty much science. that’s how i roll… if you don’t agree with what somebodies saying, it’s because that person is a moron, so they’re clearly wrong.

        • SonicSilicon
        • 8 years ago

        That is surprising with how pro-Apple Lifehacker was (when I bothered skimming it before the site went 100% script-driven.)

      • deathBOB
      • 8 years ago

      Why would anyone read gawker?

      • ssidbroadcast
      • 8 years ago

      Way way too many people are getting confused with character versus virtue. The guy created wealth for himself and many people around, added value to millions of customers, and changed the way we collectively think about what technology can and [i<]ought[/i<] to be like. That's virtue. Or, to condense it further, you could say he was like the Gordon Ramsey of his trade. Yes, Gordon Ramsey can be a total a-hole to people, but only to [i<]incompetent[/i<] people. No one would question Gordon Ramsey's effectiveness as both a chef and restraunteur.

    • yogibbear
    • 8 years ago

    Waiting for RAGE to get patched and a price drop…. then I might buy it.

      • TheDON3k
      • 8 years ago

      “@DesignerDon our first test of a higher res page file didn’t help much, because most source textures didn’t actually have any more detail.” – Nice

      • can-a-tuna
      • 8 years ago

      I might buy it for a dollar.

    • Meadows
    • 8 years ago

    Happy Steve Jobs day!

      • Deanjo
      • 8 years ago

      Don’t feel bad about the downvotes Meadows. If it was Nicola Tesla Day you would get voted down as well because windows fans would be saying that Westinghouse or Edison was the real hero. 😛

        • Meadows
        • 8 years ago

        I have grown beyond ordinary concepts such as “feeling bad” or, in fact, “feeling”.

          • mutarasector
          • 8 years ago

          “I have grown beyond ordinary concepts such as “feeling bad” or, in fact, “feeling””.

          Taking a step down ‘Nihilist lane’, perhaps? 😉

        • lilbuddhaman
        • 8 years ago

        Tesla > Edison haven’t you seen the Illusionist ?

          • Deanjo
          • 8 years ago

          Of course Tesla was the real brains. That’s why it parallels Jobs.

            • CB5000
            • 8 years ago

            No, Jobs = Edison. Between Edison and Tesla, Edison was the one that is the charismatic, extroverted, inventor that was good a making people excited about his ideas and inventions, much like how Jobs was. Tesla on the other hand was isolated, enigmatic, with an eccentric personality that was terrible at “selling” his ideas. That’s why he was basically broke most of his life. Tesla invented a lot of things that would be the key technology behind a lot of things like the radio, the modern power grid, and telecommunications. Edison took existing technology and created products like the light bulb, phonograph, camera etc. Jobs took existing technology and created ideas for products that people never knew they wanted or needed. Now a lot of people can’t live without their MP3 player, tablet, smartphone etc etc.

            In reality, Bill gates and Steve Jobs are both like Edison. The Teslas are the engineers that make 1/50 or less of the CEO’s salary to make their “ideas” happen.

      • albundy
      • 8 years ago

      hahahah, you made my day! +1

        • Meadows
        • 8 years ago

        [url<]http://i.imgur.com/xqRJV.jpg[/url<]

      • kitsura
      • 8 years ago

      I downvoted because i saw everyone do so. Just like the masses buying the new iphone4s.

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