PlayStation 4 may have AMD hardware, launch next year

After a long hiatus, the new console season is finally coming, with both Microsoft and Sony rumored to have new hardware on the way. The folks at VG247 have learned some details about the next PlayStation, which they call the PlayStation 4, and which they say will come out in the 2013 holiday season.

Interestingly, VG247 says its sources expect Sony to release the PS4 before Microsoft’s next-generation console:

“Sony are completely in the belief that they have the jump on Microsoft this time,” they said. “You should be watching the timing of next year’s E3 keynotes, and who’s going to go first.”

More interesting still, it sounds like the system might have more in common with gaming PCs than with past consoles. VG247 expects to see the PS3’s Cell processor scrapped in favor of "standard AMD hardware," which will reportedly include an x64 processor and a Southern Islands (a.k.a. 7000-series) graphics chip. Rumor has it that Sony’s application programming interfaces will give way to DirectX, as well.

New Xbox consoles are also expected in the holiday 2013 time frame. Last we heard, the rumor mill was saying Microsoft has two systems in the works: a $100, ARM-powered Xbox Lite, which will launch first, and a proper next-gen console, which may not be out until early 2014.

Comments closed
    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 8 years ago

    Still so confused as to why this is an AMD chipset. I figured that they could get a Deal on a drastically superior Intel CPU design… Gosh and then they put that garbage GPU in there. Its like why even make a PS4? Its already 4 years behind the tech curve with that hardware. Atleast when the 360 and ps4 hit PC’s didn’t typically have 2 or more CPU’s now that most of us are sporting 4 cores and up with hyperthreading it seems silly to base this on a 2 or 4 core CPU that is barely suited for mobile applications. :^/ Seems they could get a deal on a better piece of kit if they were inclined to appreciably improve their hardware. Honestly looking at this it would appear the design is more to tighten up costs and make hardware profitable than to put out a real successor to the PS3. More like PS3.5

      • ish718
      • 8 years ago

      Consoles are not meant to compete with high end gaming PCs.
      Consoles are not meant to sell for >$1000.
      Console games are a lot more optimized than PC games so it doesnt’ need uber hardware. As long as its a big improvement to current gen consoles.

        • sschaem
        • 8 years ago

        Yet when the xbox360 and ps3 came out, those where state of the art, not 4 years behind the curve design.

        Those rumors show product NOBODY would buy. Sony and MS (Xbox team) are not that stupid.

        Xbox 360 include a triple core 3.2ghz processor with super SIMD processing.
        a llano would be a big step backward, and break ALL comparability.
        edit: that to say, llano is TERRIBLE as SIMD code (what game engine thrives on). Its a 2003 design, even older then the PS3 or xbox360 cpu!!!

        Those rumors are just to fake to be true as they make no financial or technical sense.

        The new gen wont be anything less then 6x faster. If the rumor doesn’t fit this requirement, ignore it as salty bcrap.

    • --k
    • 8 years ago

    The manufacturer on both sides realized that consoles do not sell in large quantities when >$299. They make money off the license, and lose money on the hardware. So idea is to sell lukewarm upgrades every few years and keep the losses to a minimum while reaching critical mass. Critical mass for Wii came much sooner than PS3/X360 because it was cheap and appealed to non-gamers. Nintendo’s blunder came when they waited too long to release GC 3.0.

    • Suspenders
    • 8 years ago

    With AMD hardware in all three next-gen consoles, I wonder how much optimization AMD’s GCN architecture is going to be getting from future game engines, and whether or not that will be a significant benefit to their PC graphics cards.

    • ludi
    • 8 years ago

    So…first Sony abandons the memory stick and starts using SD.

    Then they start releasing e-readers that support mainstream formats.

    Now they’re going to dump the wacky PS3 hardware in favor of x86, and maybe even use DirecX?

    I assume flying monkeys and apocalyptic horsemen are next.

      • Goty
      • 8 years ago

      One can only hope.

        • NeelyCam
        • 8 years ago

        I don’t know… I personally find those horsemen a bit scary

    • Vrock
    • 8 years ago

    As a PS3 owner, I’ll wait for MS to come out with its next gen console before purchasing either one. I bought a PS3 very early so I could have a cheap Blu-ray player, but since there’s thankfully no format war this time around, my decision could be different.

    The console with the games that play, look and perform the best will get my dollars.

    I like alot of things about my PS3, but crappy performance and pared down visuals in most cross platform games isn’t one of them. Hopefully Sony has learned that making something very powerful, but making that power very hard to use, is not advantageous for anyone.

      • BestJinjo
      • 8 years ago

      Sony exclusives look better than Xbox 360’s exclusives in terms of graphics. If you want the best looking cross-platform games, you should game on the PC and get a console with the best/unique exclusives, which most likely means PS4 or Wii U. Xbox is primarily dominated by shooters, which are better on the PC anyway. So why would a PC gamer get an Xbox? For Forza only? For PC gamers, there is very little reason to get an Xbox. Nintendo and Sony actually offer games that we can’t get on the PC.

      • sweatshopking
      • 8 years ago

      they made it hard to work with on purpose… it was the plan : [url<]http://news.cnet.com/sony-ps3-is-hard-to-develop-for-on-purpose/[/url<]

    • jackbomb
    • 8 years ago

    Funny, the Internet told me x86 was dead.

    • ronch
    • 8 years ago

    [quote<]... will reportedly include an x64 processor and a Southern...[/quote<] Really.. Unless Sony uses a Llano or derivative for PS4, they'll most likely use Bulldozer since Bobcat will probably be under powered for such a machine. Very interesting, but I think I'll take this with a big bag of salt. Plus, with GF having trouble cranking out fully baked 32nm chips for the PC market as it is, Sony should take a page out of Apple's book. Even if the hardware is good, if you can't get the supply you need you're asking for lost potential sales.

      • sirroman
      • 8 years ago

      That’s a thing from the past. 32nm yields are very good now, that’s also why AMD is betting a lot on Trinity.

      Let’s wait and see.

      • Wolfram23
      • 8 years ago

      [quote<]Plus, with GF having trouble cranking out fully baked 32nm chips for the PC market[/quote<] Wait, your girlfriend can cook chips that small? The PC market must really like novelty items...

        • ronch
        • 8 years ago

        Here at TR, when you say ‘GF’, it usually means GlobalFoundries.

        Oh wait, was that a joke?

      • BestJinjo
      • 8 years ago

      Sony is rumored to be using Llano:

      [url<]http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/04/04/sources-detail-the-playstation-4s-processing-specs[/url<] Also, HD7670 is not Southern Islands but an HD6670 rebadged, based on VLIW-5 architecture.

        • sschaem
        • 8 years ago

        That would make no sense at all.. Break compatibility with all Ps3 titles and have barely any performance gain… why ?

        Would you buy one? would anyone not having a console already buy one? or any of the existing console owners?

        Sony/ MS knows a new console that much the same at the one release in 2005 wont cut the mustard.

    • destroy.all.monsters
    • 8 years ago

    Not sure how you can use DirectX outside of windows, at least without paying Microsoft something.

    I would have thought SDL or the like more likely.

    Can someone clue me in here?

      • UberGerbil
      • 8 years ago

      Well, not really. An API is just a definition of data structures and function signatures that perform certain tasks, and as such can be legally* reverse engineered — which is how WINE exists. However, there are all sorts of ways the copied can create problems for the copier, since APIs evolve and aren’t always perfectly documented, though Microsoft is also constrained by not blowing up things for its 3rd parties on the XBox or Windows. Perhaps more importantly for Sony, though, is that they’d effectively be ceding any leadership in this area to Microsoft — what’s the point of putting anything unique into your Playstation hardware if there’s no mechanism in DirectX to exploit it? And if it’s “DirectX plus proprietary extensions” then you’re departing from the major benefit you were trying to capture in the first place. They’d probably be better off just continuing to leverage OpenGL and then buy / develop / endorse 3rd-party libraries for all the other pieces.

      Unless Sony and Microsoft have both decided that there’s no real return on competing for developer attention, and unifying their platforms at that level better enables them to compete with Nintendo (and soon, probably, Apple) for ownership of the living room screen, I don’t see this happening. They’re scared of Apple, but that scared? There are a bunch of things about this rumor that don’t make sense. Either there’s some significant information missing, or this is just noise.

      * [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Dev._Corp._v._Borland_Int’l,_Inc.<]Lotus v Borland[/url<]

        • destroy.all.monsters
        • 8 years ago

        Thanks for the explanation and breakdown of your thoughts on the matter. I thought it sounded very strange and couldn’t understand it.

        Your second paragraph is vastly more eloquent and detailed than what I was thinking initially.

        +1

        • Bensam123
        • 8 years ago

        Curious… if MS is concentrating so heavily on their consoles and pretty have completely stopped all development of DirectX, it makes me wonder if OpenGL (or the newer variant, I believe there is one) will eventually take over on the PC.

        That could make for an interesting twist of fate.

          • destroy.all.monsters
          • 8 years ago

          Perhaps I missed the news but I haven’t seen anything that says that DirectX is dead. 11.1 is coming out with Win 8 and I’m sure they’ll tweak it some. Do you have linkies?

      • BaronMatrix
      • 8 years ago

      Consoles and even ARM already support DX. Any Radeon chip will be DX compatible.

        • UberGerbil
        • 8 years ago

        That’s not what we’re talking about. A device with no graphics hardware whatsoever can be “DX compatible” if the rendering is all done in software. It’s not about the hardware. But can a PS4 developer write (or bring over code already written) to the DirectX APIs and have it run? Or will he have to change those calls to something else (replacing calls to Direct3D functions with calls to OpenGL, and so on). Is DirectX there and functional so that code written for DirectX will “just run” without any translation or cross-compilation or redirection layers? That’s the question.

    • Bensam123
    • 8 years ago

    I’m telling you guys, both companies have up to date prototypes ready for production with a years notice and they’re just waiting to pull the trigger on them. I’m almost completely positive that Sony won’t get the drop on MS. They’ll come out essentially at exactly the same time, +/- a month.

    That would make perfect sense out of all these rumors. They haven’t spent the last seven years making a ultra amazing piece of hardware that will blow our minds and blow away all the competition, including computers. First they have to milk their current consoles for all they’re worth though.

    That aside, it looks as though Sony knows it can’t win against MS with brute force anymore (there are definitely a lot more X360 owners then PS3 owners, I’m pretty sure the stats on Wikipedia are a lie), so they’re taking a different approach to things including melding more closely with PCs. With this course of action, I can’t imagine consoles making it past the next generation, except for the Wii (Nintendo has just been doing their own thing). It’s almost as if this is designed to be a transition piece.

    Maybe Sony just intends to sell ‘Steamboxes’ in the future… I really hope game makers wont continue to develop solely for their antiquated hardware if that’s the case. That could make or break consolization forever more are there will no longer be a clear cut line between what is a console and what isn’t.

      • spigzone
      • 8 years ago

      Heh, based on what?

      Ms is obviously way ahead of Sony in next gen console development, they have had final working silicon for a while and will shortly be sending out final dev kits. Sony has squat. They actually believed their own talk of the PS4 lasting until 2015.

      Until they got a gander at what the Xbox 720 + Kinect 2 would be bringing to the table in 2013 and realized their axxes were about to be handed to them.

      Sony is standing there with it’s pants bunched around it’s ankles. They only chance they have to launch a new console concurrent with Ms is to do exactly what they are now doing to try and catch up, go with a slightly modified existing hardware platform (with the extensive existing software and development tools), hence the AMD grahics + x86 solution. They are going to take a $$ bath again for several years as they are now going to have to brute force a solution with mostly existing silicon that will compete with Ms, who did plan ahead and has highly custom silicon in hand which, if it’s not at 28nm at lauch, will be shortly thereafter.

      Sony is also far behind in next gen controller tech, assuming the rumors they are going with a Kinect type solution are true.

      Of course they could just license Microsoft’s PC Kinect solution.

        • Bensam123
        • 8 years ago

        How do you know MS is way ahead of Sony? ALL of these things are rumors… snippets that may or may not be true and usually don’t represent anything close to the whole picture. How do you know they have final working silicon? What does that even mean when it comes to simply building a system? Who says Sony doesn’t have ‘final working silicon’? They aren’t designing their own CPUs and GPUs.

        There are rumors of new generations of consoles launching from holiday 2012 to 2015… It was confirmed that the newest generation of consoles for both Sony and MS aren’t launching this christmas, but other then that they haven’t confirmed anything concerning dates, their production lines, or that their designs are finalized.

        ‘Shortly sending out dev kits’ isn’t ‘dev kits have been sent out’, which is also based on another rumor.

          • spigzone
          • 8 years ago

          Yep, it’s just all one big ball of undifferentiated rumor. All rumors are equally valid and equally invalid.

          Whatever. If you think Ms and Sony are at the same place in their next gen hardware and software development, have at it.

        • BestJinjo
        • 8 years ago

        “Ms, who did plan ahead and has highly custom silicon in hand which, if it’s not at 28nm at lauch, will be shortly thereafter.”

        What? MS is using the same GPU (HD6670) that PS4 is rumored to have (HD7670 => rebadged HD6670). Since Sony is rumored to be using AMD A8-3850 with HD6550D built in graphics APU, they’ll have more graphical capability by being able to do Hybrid Crossfire.
        [url<]http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/04/04/sources-detail-the-playstation-4s-processing-specs[/url<] Unless MS uses 2 discrete GPUs, their console looks less powerful against PS4. Also, AMD's quad-core Llano will surely be faster for games than a PowerPC that MS intends to use. If anything, it looks like MS won't launch earlier, won't have better graphics and considering Sony doesn't charge for annual online gaming, has BluRay, has better exclusives historically, MS is about to be in for a rough ride. The only reason 360 did so well this generation is because it launched 1 year before PS3 and PS3 had an astronomical launch price of $599 vs. $399 for the 360. MS won't have either of those advantages this time. Finally, Sony also allows you to upgrade your hard drive to an SSD/any mechanical drive you desire without having to pay $ for proprietary, slow and small capacity mechanical drives that MS pushes. Overall, MS has no advantages to speak of coming into this next generation race other than Kinect.

          • sweatshopking
          • 8 years ago

          sony has better exclusives? like what? drake? that’s a good game, but what else? resistance can’t hold a candle to halo’s sales…. i’m having trouble coming up with anything close to ms’ major exclusives…

            • Darkmage
            • 8 years ago

            God of War, maybe.

            • Bensam123
            • 8 years ago

            I heard Uncharted 2/3 was supposed to be amazing.

            • entropy13
            • 8 years ago

            That’s your reaction because you’re on the wrong side of the Pacific.

            If I were forced to choose which set of exclusives I would play, I’d definitely go with the PS3 exclusives.

          • Bensam123
          • 8 years ago

          I agree on the bit about HDs… if either company was smart they’d sneak a small SSD in and use it as a cache drive in addition to a normal HD…

          That’s something they could easily do and then brag about how fast their levels load compared to the Xbox.

    • puppetworx
    • 8 years ago

    This bodes well for ports.

      • paulWTAMU
      • 8 years ago

      Hardware that isn’t exactly high end NOW, in a console with a 7+ year lifespan? I don’t think that bodes well for ports…

        • willyolio
        • 8 years ago

        he’s talking about directX. if 2 of the 3 major consoles have directX support, porting to PC should be much smoother.

          • mesyn191
          • 8 years ago

          Also if the CPU and memory configuration is closer to what you find in a PC that’ll make ports MUCH easier too.

            • paulWTAMU
            • 8 years ago

            Good points willyolio and mesyn191. That makes sense and I’d somehow overlooked it. Oops.

          • Dygear
          • 8 years ago

          I don’t see Sony using the Direct X API, I could see them using OpenGL.

      • Wolfram23
      • 8 years ago

      I agree. Might see more games with DX11 support and, you know, being functional. Maybe even without 30 fps limits hardcoded in!

      I won’t get my hopes up, but if this means a little more PC love then that’s great news.

    • adam1378
    • 8 years ago

    If these rumours are true then what we have is the consoles becoming low-rent pc’s from five years ago. But on the bright side, it looks like the Steam-Playstation partnership looks enticing. And maybe using a keyboard and mouse as the controller?

      • nagashi
      • 8 years ago

      In a lot of ways, that’s exactly what they’ve always been. Really, the 360/ps3 are somewhat exceptional in terms of their relative power to a modern PC. If you compared a ps1, nintendo 64, gamecube, etc to their PC equivalents at time of release, they were even older than 5 years behind. A ps1 was closer to 10 years.

      What they are though, is a stable, known, fixed platform with a fixed amount of OS overhead, something the PC world is very unlikely to ever become. Given that, developers have two choices:

      1) Develop for consoles, as you say the PC equivalent of a 5yo low cost PC with dramatically lower testing/QA costs
      2) Develop for PCs, and target a 5yo low cost PC so that there’s actually a decently broad market to make some money.

        • spigzone
        • 8 years ago

        Doesn’t matter much when your resolution target is static. When the Xbox 360 came out 1080P required cutting edge discrete graphics cards. Now lower mid-range cards have no problem. If a game were coded specifically for a high end Llano chip, the 1080P graphics would be spectacular.

    • spigzone
    • 8 years ago

    Xbox missing the 2013 holiday season or being beaten to the market by Sony is non-sensical. Developers have had Ms prototype dev kits for months already and Ms recently had a high level dev conference detailing the hardware that’s coming in the final dev kit. Ms is WAY ahead of Sony in their next gen development … which is WHY Sony is going with AMD and x86 … they finally woke up to the disparity of what Ms was SAYING (360 good for another 3-4 years) and what they were DOING (full steam ahead to launch the 720 in the fallof 2013).

    Whereas Sony WAS actually intending to stretch the PS3 to 2015 or so, which makes sense from a shorter term return on investment point of view, but not so much for the longer term market share point of view launching two years behind an Xbox 720.

    And then there’s the rather mind blowing capability Kinect 2 paired with the 720 will bring to the table.

    In other words Ms was playing them for a sucker.

    So Sony was caught with it’s pants down … what to do, what to do?

    Heh, grab for the lowest hanging fruit, that’s what.

    Pair with AMD who is already providing the other next gen console graphics and go with a x86 processor because every developer already knows how to and already is doing that, and AMD is the designer with the expertise to put it all together for the lowest price.

    The devs and publishers will be estatic, porting to the PS4 will now be a relatively inexpensive cakewalk compared to porting to the Cell.

    If the rumors Sony is developing their own version of Kinect are true, so much the better, the devs will already be developing for the Kinect so that will be an easy port too.

    And of course it means Sony can make that all important holiday 2013 deadline and not lose a ton of market (and mind) share … whatever already is or will be developed for the Xbox 720 or PC for a fall 2013 release can now easily be ported to the PS4.

    • chrissodey
    • 8 years ago

    Why would Sony be thinking about using an API like Directx? I read somewhere that API layers are the main restriction to graphical hardware, but they are required since all hardware can be different. Since all consoles produced by Sony will have the same hardware can’t developers code to bare metal?

      • mesyn191
      • 8 years ago

      Because they want to make cross porting easier and quicker while also reducing development costs.

      “Coding to metal” sounds cool but sucks ass in the real world where there are budgets and dead lines to meet. It usually leads to developers being forced to compromise on the quality of the game in all sorts of manner.

      • StashTheVampede
      • 8 years ago

      Sony’s tools are notoriously poor. First and second gen Playstation titles tend to look good, but don’t play all that well since no one has figured out asm (yet). Sony cannot afford to make the next Playstation difficult to develop for, they absolutely need to make the tools fast/simple and keep the cross-platform titles still looking/playing AAA without massive delays.

      Microsoft is on the other end of the tools: always very high quality and consistent tools.

      If MS is going a custom chip route that doesn’t work similar to their PPC tech, that would slow bare metal asm develop, but their non-asm tools will still be top notch. Sony, IF they go to x86, will have a pretty good leg up on MS when it comes to developer support on x86.

      • Bensam123
      • 8 years ago

      Cross platform… If you make a port it’s still required on a PC. I don’t think APIs really restrict anything unless you’re trying to make low level use of hardware, they unify things most definitely… I doubt your lazy console programmers are going out of their way to make low level use of hardware either. They’ll just find a engine, license it and go from there, which is what they did with the last consoles.

        • spigzone
        • 8 years ago

        Plus there’s the time element. Sony devs can pick the low hanging fruit to start with, which will still provide spectacular graphics, and optimize to ‘bare metal’ as they need to.

        The PS4 is going to be around for a LONG time.

    • Sunburn74
    • 8 years ago

    I hope they include cheats with single player games this time with the new console. The ability to cheat often is the difference between buying a game on PC vs the same game on the PS3 for me.

      • DeadOfKnight
      • 8 years ago

      l2p, n00b

        • Psycliff
        • 8 years ago

        Dead, get a job as some of us dont have time to play all day!! codes to shorten the game are useful for some of us with limited leisure time.

          • superjawes
          • 8 years ago

          Exactly. When I watch movies, I watch the first fifteen minutes or so, then just skip to the last fifteen. Because who has time to watch an entire movie?

          • ImSpartacus
          • 8 years ago

          No one forces you to play on super-mega-hard.

          • paulWTAMU
          • 8 years ago

          and they’re great when we’re stuck on one specific thing we can’t beat and just want to move on.

          I’m looking at you, foot race scene in Assasin’s Creed II.

    • HighTech4US2
    • 8 years ago

    So let me get this straight: PS-4 will have Old Outdated CPU from AMD along with OLD Outdated GPU from AMD

    Big Time F A I L

      • crabjokeman
      • 8 years ago

      Were you reading a different article?

        • HighTech4US2
        • 8 years ago

        Wait, watch and learn grasshopper.

          • Jigar
          • 8 years ago

          There are better trolls available here than you think, so don’t…

    • maroon1
    • 8 years ago

    I’m not sure why Sony has chosen AMD hardware

    Intel processors has much better performance per mm^2 than AMD CPU’s

    And new nvidia kepler has better performance per mm^2 than AMD GPU’s

      • NeelyCam
      • 8 years ago

      The decision was probably made a long time ago when it wasn’t clear which GPU is a winner. And maybe AMD offered Sony a nice CPU+GPU package deal.. something neither Intel nor NVIdia could do.

        • spigzone
        • 8 years ago

        The decision wasn’t made a long time ago because Sony just woke up to the Ms next gen threat within the last year. They WANTED to, and INTENDED to, string the PS3 out until 2015. Which is the reason for their belated realization Ms was about to CRUSH them in 2013 with a highly sophisticated Kinect 2 controller + Avatar quality graphics to go with it.

        Ms essentially caught them with their pants down. So they have no choice in what company to go with to get a PS4 out concurrent with Ms. AMD is the only company that can provide a working solution in time and at a cost that will keep their coming early console cycle red ink from becoming a tidal wave until a more cost effective consolidated silicon solution can be brought on line. While Sony was PLANNING the parameters and capabilities of their next gen console, Ms was ENGINEERING the silicon for theirs.

      • Narishma
      • 8 years ago

      There’s more to it than performance per mm². Like price for example. If this rumour is true then the most likely reason they went with AMD is that AMD offered them the best deal. And if the rumour about them having the specs locked 2 years ago is true, then it makes sense for them to have went with AMD instead of Nvidia.

        • Farting Bob
        • 8 years ago

        If the specs were locked 2 years ago then how does it have a rumoured 7xxx series based GPU, before they even had working silicon at that point?

        Im guessing AMD offered a good deal if they used their CPU, GPU and chipset like you said (hey, its why AMD nearly bankrupted itself buying ATI right?). The CPU isn’t as important as the GPU for a gaming console, so the line that Sony says “this will be good enough to not bottleneck the GPU” was probably on the low end of what we see in current desktop CPUs and there AMD competes quite well for performance/$.

          • mesyn191
          • 8 years ago

          Back then they might’ve had some likely performance 7xxx series targets they thought they could reach when they pitched the deal to Sony.

          Its also possible their deal didn’t originally use the 7xxx series GPU but instead that was a more recent change and we’re just hearing about it now.

          • ImSpartacus
          • 8 years ago

          It takes more than two years to make a GPU. Southern Islands has been in the cooker for quite a few years.

      • StashTheVampede
      • 8 years ago

      Its all about expertise in the field.

      Intel beats the pants off AMD in performance/watt, yup. Does Intel currently have a lot of experience with a very powerful GPU, paired up with a CPU on the same die that is specifically targeting low powered devices? No.

      Nvidia’s current chip tech is definitely faster than AMD, yup. Does Nvidia have a lot of experience with a GPU/CPU on the same die? Nope.

      AMD isn’t the leader in either CPU or GPU tech, but they ARE the current leader in putting both of those techs onto a single die.

      AMD is probably going to sell something Llano-like to Sony for their PS4: multiple similar cores, multiple GPUs working together, etc. Sony has hurt their development community with difficult SDKs (compared to MS) and they need to get as many launch titles together as possible (easier SDK helps).

        • khands
        • 8 years ago

        Would be interesting if they slapped a couple of Trinity APUs together on a 28nm or lower process and called it a day.

          • HighTech4US2
          • 8 years ago

          Red Ring of Death II

            • Goty
            • 8 years ago

            Yeah, because AMD had that period a few years ago with massive numbers of chip deaths due to the rigors of thermal expansion on sub-par packaging components! Oh, wait.

        • Goty
        • 8 years ago

        [quote<]Nvidia's current chip tech is definitely faster than AMD, yup. Does Nvidia have a lot of experience with a GPU/CPU on the same die? Nope. [/quote<] Ehh, you could argue that their work with Tegra gives them some experience there.

          • StashTheVampede
          • 8 years ago

          Tegra is absolutely a comparable, but (ihmo) it isn’t suited to the most high-end graphics that probably are desired for “next gen” console (there is a reason why Nvidia hasn’t targeted it to set top boxes).

            • Goty
            • 8 years ago

            You’re definitely right, there, but I don’t think the technical boundaries would be too great for them to beef up the GPU and clock the CPU through the roof to get performance where they’d need it. There’d be some work needed to get everything built on one HP process or another, but that would be expected.

        • shank15217
        • 8 years ago

        Oh so because they lost by a frew frames on a couple of games they are suddenly not a leader in gfx tech?

          • NeelyCam
          • 8 years ago

          Being a “leader” implies [i<]leading[/i<]. Or, are you one of those marketing folks that claim their company is a "leader" if they are somewhere near the top10...?

      • pogsnet
      • 8 years ago
        • NeelyCam
        • 8 years ago

        U sure anout that?

        I think it would be interesting if Intel used the licensing agreement with NVidia to do just that

      • shank15217
      • 8 years ago

      How about you compare the 7870 vs the 680 and see which one has higher performance per mm^2, you maybe surprised expecially given the headroom on the 7870s

      • ish718
      • 8 years ago

      Regular x86 desktop CPUs are a LOT better than the PowerPC cpus in consoles whether it’s Intel or AMD.

        • jensend
        • 8 years ago

        I don’t think it’s certain that anybody will switch away from POWER this generation.

        While it’s certainly true that Cell (with its single PPE and difficult-to-program-for SPEs) and Xenon (with its the triple-tweaked-PPE setup) are slower than recent AMD and Intel chips, these old console CPUs are pretty darn capable. Benchmarks are hard to come by, and if you have data I’d love to see it, but I’d bet that Cell and Xenon are faster than dual-core Brazos. I’d also guess that while (since the PPE is in-order and has inferior branch prediction) they’d certainly be slower than a 2GHz C2D at normal computing tasks, they’re probably close in a lot of gaming type workloads.

        So Ivy Bridge or Trinity would both be big steps forward in the CPU department, but possibly not by enough to emulate the old architectures effectively. If they want backwards compatibility they may have to stick with POWER. It’s certainly a real option; there are POWER architecture processors as fast as any x86 processors, including Sandy Bridge-E Xeons. Plus, it’s a lot easier for console manufacturers to license the architecture, integrate other things into the chip, etc than it would be trying to deal with x86 licensing.

        BTW it’s already confirmed that the Wii U’s processor, though tremendously different from Broadway (Wii) and Gekko (GameCube) (both of which were based on the long-outdated PowerPC 750CXe) will be based on POWER7.

          • ish718
          • 8 years ago

          A developer for Capcom that worked on Lost planet 2 using the MT framework engine stated that a PowerPC core is equivalent to 2/3 pentium 4 core at the same frenquency. And that parallelism is the key to PowerPC cpu performance.

          I figured a game developer would be a good source, but anyway I don’t think Sony and Microsoft are aiming for backwards compatibility for next gen consoles.

          If your talking about the high end PowerPC server/workstation CPUs then that’s a different story but they have yet to be used for games.

            • jensend
            • 8 years ago

            Minor point of detail- it’s nonsensical to say “a PowerPC core is equivalent to…” – it’s just like saying “an ARM core is equivalent to a 486.” PowerPC is an ISA, not a chip. Different PPC chips will differ just as dramatically as different x86 chips do.

            I found [url=http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/534590-capcom-interview-on-gaming-technology/<]the interview to which you were referring[/url<], and it's worth noting that they said a Xenon PPE has 2/3 the [i<]single-threaded[/i<] performance of a similarly-clocked P4; they're also saying that each core manages to roughly double its performance using two threads and that the overall performance of Xenon is therefore ~4x that of a similarly-clocked P4. (Yes, they're claiming ~100% benefit from SMT i.e. hyperthreading - due to the PPE being in-order and having a weaker branch predictor this is actually quite possible.) New x86 CPUs are still going to be faster, but to do well with PPC emulation they need to be ~10x as fast. See for example the very performance required to run a detailed GameCube game on the Dolphin emulator. Yes, they could ditch backward compatibility, but it's a fairly strong reason for them to consider sticking with POWER. [quote<]If your talking about the high end PowerPC server/workstation CPUs then that's a different story but they have yet to be used for games.[/quote<]As I said, it's already fairly clear that the Wii U processor is based on IBM's POWER7.

            • ish718
            • 8 years ago

            Backwards compatibility is pretty much a no go for PS4 since they’re ditching the Cell architecture. There is no way they will emulate a Cell processor with a x86 cpu.
            PS3 can’t even emulate PS2 games unless you have the old PS3 with the Emotion chip onboard.

            Keep in mind that most console ports only use 2 cores on the PC mostly. Those same games use 3-6 threads on the 360.

            [quote<]As I said, it's already fairly clear that the Wii U processor is based on IBM's POWER7.[/quote<] Well, rumors are surfacing about game developers saying that the Wii U is weaker than Ps3 and 360... It may be possible Nintendo sacrificed GPU power for more CPU with Wii U, especially since it has that new controller which uses more CPU power.

            • jensend
            • 8 years ago

            You’ve made a mistake; nobody’s claiming the Wii U’s CPU is weaker than the PS3 or 360 — indeed all the rumors point to the CPU being twice as fast as Xenon. Instead, people are saying the Wii U’s [b<]GPU[/b<] is weak. A quick check shows that all the 720 rumors are saying its CPU is also IBM POWER based but will be (predictably) a good bit faster than the Wii U's. Though most of the PS4 rumors flying around right now say it'll use an AMD CPU, there are still some folks saying it will be POWER as well. Though Sony will almost certainly ditch Cell, it might be quite possible for them to retain backwards compatibility if they used a POWER processor since they'd only have to emulate the SPEs (which they may have plenty enough cores to do) and run PPE code natively. Digital distribution may make backwards compatibility less important if they can convince enough developers to port things to the new architecture.

      • Bensam123
      • 8 years ago

      Cause there is never anything more to this then that… Like deals, making custom units to tailor which they did for the last consoles, or the fact that you’re essentially cherry picking a couple things and blowing it out of proportion.

      Oh and console owners don’t usually give a crap about how much power their device uses as long as it doesn’t RRoD.

      • BaronMatrix
      • 8 years ago

      Can you say Direct X 11 APU? They could even Hybrid XFire it for SUPER HIGH END consoles. Besides, no one’s running SuperPi or CUDA on their console.

    • jdaven
    • 8 years ago

    This story complete omits the one confirmed next gen console release, the Wii U. So yes the next gen consoles are upon us. One confirmed for later this year, the Wii U and rumor of both the next gen Xbox and PS for 2013.

      • Narishma
      • 8 years ago

      Some would debate that the WiiU is a next-gen console. Especially with the recent rumours about it being on par with the PS3 and Xbox 360.

        • khands
        • 8 years ago

        That latest rumor seems unlikely, and I think the person who said it meant their visual target for the Wii U (this was particularly about Darksiders 2) was the same as the PS3/360.

          • Narishma
          • 8 years ago

          There’s also a more recent rumour that says the WiiU is actually below Xbox 360 and PS3 in terms of performance. That’s the one I was thinking about.
          [url<]http://www.destructoid.com/rumor-wii-u-not-as-powerful-as-xbox-360-ps3-225079.phtml[/url<]

            • Kaleid
            • 8 years ago

            That would be extremely disappointing because 360 and PS3 aren’t exactly powerhouses.

            • paulWTAMU
            • 8 years ago

            jesus I hope not…I don’t expect cutting edge but FFS, they’re 6 years past cutting edge. Can’t a new console at least slightly surpass them?!

            • derFunkenstein
            • 8 years ago

            Nintendo’s MO is always to make a profit on the hardware, and their consoles have been the cheapest consoles the last couple of generations. The Wii is basically a Gamecube on steroids. If this thing is even 4x as fast as the Wii it’s only catching up to the 360/PS3.

    • Tristan
    • 8 years ago

    Pure BS

      • Farting Bob
      • 8 years ago

      I take it you work for Sony developing the next playstation, because you seem so certain that this is incorrect. Or is your guessing better than everyone elses?

    • PrincipalSkinner
    • 8 years ago

    If x64 and DX rumours are true, developers should take a breath of relief then. I’ve read that PS3 is bitch to develop for.
    Edit : fixed typo.

      • StashTheVampede
      • 8 years ago

      Sony made the PS2/3 difficult to develop for, when you want to talk via ASM. No one really knows why their strategy was to make the platform difficult to develop for, but it could have been to demonstrate that PS2/3 “only” titles were so much better than the cross platform/360-only titles.

      Microsoft (on the other hand), has made their tools some of the easier to use in the business and look at where it got them with the 360.

      • Goty
      • 8 years ago

      It certainly would be a bitch to develop for a console that probably doesn’t even have dev hardware, yet.

      • Alchemist07
      • 8 years ago

      obvious typo is obvious

    • Dygear
    • 8 years ago

    I don’t think they’ll call it the PlayStation 4. In Chinese & Japanese culture the word for “four” sounds like the word for “death.”

      • superjawes
      • 8 years ago

      I think there was an article posted recently saying that the codename was Oracle or something. Aside from the WiiU, I don’t think that any of the companies will follow the same convention in the next cycle.

        • NeelyCam
        • 8 years ago

        The VG24/7 article says it’s Orbis.

          • superjawes
          • 8 years ago

          Yeah…site’s blocked. My mistake. I only knew that it started with an ‘O’.

      • ascus
      • 8 years ago

      Obviously, Apple did not get that memo. iPhone 4/4S sell just fine in China.
      PS. S in Chinese also sounds same as 4 and “death”.

        • NeelyCam
        • 8 years ago

        So, 4S = double-death? Or do they cancel each other out?

          • ascus
          • 8 years ago

          If you want pronunciation, it goes like this: iPhone “death loves death” (for iPhone 4S). Although, very few people will make this kind of connection. Just a point to say the effect of 4 as death is exaggerated.

            • NeelyCam
            • 8 years ago

            [quote<]"death loves death"[/quote<] Could be a name of a heavy metal band

      • 5150
      • 8 years ago

      First thing I thought of too. I remember that happened with Palm, went from the III series to V.

      • OneArmedScissor
      • 8 years ago

      Well that would be appropriate, considering Sony will be on its death bed by the time this comes out.

        • Alchemist07
        • 8 years ago

        +1 for the lols

      • crabjokeman
      • 8 years ago

      Or they’ll just translate it to whatever ‘four’ is in Japanese…

        • odizzido
        • 8 years ago

        four is shi in japanese, and shi is death.

        Course, they can also say yon for four, and they might even just use the english word for four anyways.

          • Grigory
          • 8 years ago

          Well done mentioning yon. 🙂

          • h4x0rpenguin
          • 8 years ago

          So based on what ascus said above (S sounds like four/death), the iPhone 4S is the iPhone “shishi”? :O

            • odizzido
            • 8 years ago

            In Chinese I am not sure, but I don’t think S has any negative meaning in Japanese so it is just the iphone death S, if they chose to say it that way.

      • --k
      • 8 years ago

      In Japan, they use the roma-ji japinglish- they call it Pee Esss Suree.

    • superjawes
    • 8 years ago

    Shocker…Cell dropped from future Playstations…

    Although unless they plan a PS3 Super-Slim, I feel like Microsoft will still be in good shape selling an Xbox Lite. Weird how MS keeps doing what Sony did in the previous console cycle.

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