Tablets will outsell PCs next year, says Microsoft

If you were still wondering why Windows 8 puts its Metro interface front and center so dramatically, well, here’s why. The guys at PC Pro attended a keynote by Windows Web Servies VP Antoine Leblond in Amsterdam, and they heard Leblond make an interesting prediction about the ever-growing popularity of tablets:

"Next year, tablets will outsell desktop PCs," said Leblond. "Touch is coming to PCs and that’s going to change the way UIs are designed very dramatically, just like the mouse did."

Well, when you put it that way… I suppose Microsoft would be crazy not to make Metro its default UI and relegate the classic desktop to quasi-legacy status.

Amusingly, PC Pro says Leblond went on to demonstrate that Metro "works equally well on a desktop or a tablet," but the demonstration failed when the test machine wouldn’t acknowledge touchpad gestures like two-fingered scrolling. That might be the shape of things to come, folks.

Comments closed
    • Krogoth
    • 7 years ago

    I doubt it.

    Tablets are approaching market saturation in the mainstream.

    Touch = epic failure for the traditional desktop environment and workable for portables.

    Calling touch as revolutionary as mouse is laughable at best.

    • rrr
    • 7 years ago

    Tablets are a fad, just like netbooks. In 2 years people will be on next best thing, whatever it will be.

    • destroy.all.monsters
    • 7 years ago

    Dear Valve, please save us from Microsoft’s madness.

    Where’s the betting pool as to when Ballmer is pushed out?

    My guess – 3rd quarter 2013 (possibly 4th) when this whole stupid forced Metro Ui thing alienates business users to the extent that they bail on Windows.

      • clone
      • 7 years ago

      I believe their is more money to be had outside of desktop for MS which is why Ballmer is doing what he’s doing with the agreement of many others inside MS.

        • destroy.all.monsters
        • 7 years ago

        I don’t question their desire to move into new markets – not at all – I question that doing so with the express intent of alienating their installed base of users.

        I don’t think this is going to work out for MS one bit – particularly if they think they’re going to get major market share with 8. *If* they’re playing it for the long game then because of their warchest they’ll manage through the next few years. The fact is Windows Phone has never been relevant.

        This isn’t to say that a familiar look and feel across is a terrible idea. Forcing them to use it – then what’s the differentiation between you and Apple? Nothing worth speaking of. Those of us that don’t want Apple products don’t want MS products that act in the same annoying fashion.

        However, given that the phone space is going through a consolidation period we may be stuck with those big three as it is.

      • superjawes
      • 7 years ago

      I think the real betting pool is when Steam is coming to tablets and/or smartphones…

      Honestly, I think Gabe would be more likely to agree with Ballmer on this topic.

        • destroy.all.monsters
        • 7 years ago

        I have no doubt that Steam will eventually come to the mobile space. That doesn’t mean that all games and all users will want to abandon their desktops and the type of games that work best in a traditional mouse and keyboard role.

        Nor will business users want to deal with the UI dumb down. Why not go Apple if there’s lock in regardless?

    • RhysAndrews
    • 7 years ago

    Some of you can be so arrogant..
    Tablets are selling very well. Doesn’t look like a niche to me! I haven’t found anyone who’s bought a tablet and not found plenty of use for them.

    Nobody knows what the future will bring, whether tablets are just a fad or whether we’re going to be poking at our desktop screens soon enough.

    • Malphas
    • 7 years ago

    Criminally misleading headline by TechReport there. Still, pretty bold prediction by Microsoft, but if they’d set it a year or two further away then it would almost certainly be correct. Desktop PC sales have been in decline for years, and tablets are set to explode (although I’d say Android is going to have more to do with that than Windows 8).

    • Bensam123
    • 7 years ago

    Hey, this doesn’t seem dubious at all… So they convert their OS to a tablet OS, force it down everyones throats, on top of tablets selling fast simply because a lot of people don’t have them and they’re trendy, and they predict tablets will outsell PCs?

    Who would’ve thought?!?

    This looks like a good point for someone to intro a ultabook with a swivel touchscreen combined with commercials that go like ‘Look what my PC can do, can you do this on a tablet?’. You know, the whole compare and contrast thing. There are a lot of those.

    • WaltC
    • 7 years ago

    What else can Leblond say? He’s obviously sold this idea to someone at Microsoft, and it’s likely his job depends upon it being true. I would suggest that maybe he packs his bags early, and dusts off the ol’ resume’…..;)

      • Rand
      • 7 years ago

      Metro is Synofsky’s baby, he’s the one who convinced Ballmer to drop the Courier tablet initiative and transition Windows to become the mobile OS instead.

    • Deanjo
    • 7 years ago

    My how their tune has changed since the iPad debut.

      • travbrad
      • 7 years ago

      or the iPhone

      [quote<]"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance" [/quote<] - Steve Ballmer

      • jstern
      • 7 years ago

      There’s a video from 2005 of Bill Gates talking about how tablets are the future. Sure, maybe he was talking about Tablet PC, but also in 1998 in his audio book he was talking about the future and people using the current tablet form factor. And in that Bill Gate & Steve Jobs interview that’s very popular on YouTube, he also talked a lot about the current tablet form factor.

        • sschaem
        • 7 years ago

        MS talk, Apple execute and draw the path, MS follow and fails.

        MS vision of a tablet was expressed best with they Windows CE effort (Lame)
        People wanted tablets, but not with a desktop OS.
        They are now doing the same mistake, but putting a touch based OS on desktop.

        Its just baffling how lame MS windows design team is at entering new markets…

          • Arclight
          • 7 years ago

          [quote<]Its just baffling how lame MS windows design team is at entering new markets...[/quote<] Rather they are lame at enforcing their position in a market in which they are already dominant....

    • albundy
    • 7 years ago

    MS betting on toys? Besides using them in limited business scenarios, tablets are just toys/large PMPs.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 7 years ago

      Seems to be working for the Xbox.

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        An XBox is a toy, remember?

          • derFunkenstein
          • 7 years ago

          like i said…being a toy seems to work for the Xbox.

      • tootercomputer
      • 7 years ago

      Tablets are essential for the thousands of us with deteriorating vision who still like to read and find the tablet an extremely user-friendly and comfortable-to-position digital text source. A niche? Perhaps, but keep adding up all the “niches” (children, people on the beach, you name it) and you have a bunch of folks.

      I remember they said the same thing about PCs back in the early 1980s: a niche product for those really geeky guys.

        • jdaven
        • 7 years ago

        But that is the problem. Anyone looking to support a viewpoint will ignore historical context in a vain hope that it doesn’t play out in the same way. This especially happens when something that everyone is use to is about to be replaced with the latest and greatest.

        • Bensam123
        • 7 years ago

        You can always increase the DPI of items on a desktop or laptop. There are accessibility settings for people who are in a similar position as you. You don’t need a tablet to do that.

        Now if you said they’re easier to use for older people, indicating the inability to learn complex things or the lack of desire to do so, you might have something and I would agree with it.

        • Ifalna
        • 7 years ago

        Tablets are nice presentation devices, but the Desktop/Laptop will always be the “work horse” of the computer world.

        Though to be honest: I can’t really imagine it to be comfortable to read a book on these things, but maybe I’m weird because I prefer paper that doesn’t glow. >.<

    • tootercomputer
    • 7 years ago

    Touch is coming to PCs, and will join voice, keyboard, mouse, and whatever future input sources become viable. Yes, touch is probably best for a tablet, no argument there, but I would love to have the touch option on a regular PC monitor, for any number of programs. And I suspect many small children who do not yet have the fine motor control to use a mouse or keyboard could benefit from touch on the PC. I also suspect that monitors will adapt as well, so that the vertical monitor we all use will be able to lie flat and be used more efficiently with touch.

    Many consumers are used to greasy fingers on things in their homes.

    I am not a MS fanboy, but IMHO I think they are on to something with Win 8 and Surface (which I think is very cool). If they get all the details right.

      • Anarchist
      • 7 years ago

      I can’t wait to see voice command come to PC/MAC … go to work and hear everyone in office talking to their PC, or get on subway and see everyone talking to their laptop/tablet/phone, that will be the sign the human race have reached it’s point of no return.

        • superjawes
        • 7 years ago

        That bit about offices and subways is never going to happen. The noise would either confuse the software or simply drown out the intended commands. SNR…it’s a bitch.

        Having the occaisional personal use might be something, though. I’ve seen lots of people enjoy Siri, and the simpler voice calling on my iPhone makes my life much easier.

        • khands
        • 7 years ago

        It’s already there somewhat. With Siri and Dragon Naturally Speaking and a few other smart speech programs.

        • esterhasz
        • 7 years ago

        I vividly (alright, not [i<]that[/i<] vividly) remember my soundblaster pro coming with a voice command software for Win 3.11. Used it for a while, worked rather well, felt a bit stupid though, stopped again.

        • Ifalna
        • 7 years ago

        I want voice control like in star trek. Where Even if I’m cursing and swearing the computer always knows what I want. 😀

        Computer, just close that crap, will you?

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 7 years ago

    Maybe win 9 will get it right, lol

      • mcnabney
      • 7 years ago

      Probably not a good plan, since customers might actually leave the Windows ecosystem in the next 3-4 years. I know I plan to.

        • Beelzebubba9
        • 7 years ago

        And move to what?

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          The magic chocolate land. Duh.

          • Rand
          • 7 years ago

          Mac or Linux presumably.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 7 years ago

            I’m switching to the Amiga.

          • mcnabney
          • 7 years ago

          A nex-gen console and a dockable Android or iDevice. As a PC loyalist (since the 80s) I have actually gotten to the point that I can totally imagine not using Windows anymore.

          • Shouefref
          • 7 years ago

          IPad, Google Chrome, and some people something more explicitely Linux (Ubuntu or so).
          There is quite a lot of choice.

      • Wirko
      • 7 years ago

      I find “lol” to be the most serious part of your post.

    • HisDivineOrder
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<]Well, when you put it that way... I suppose Microsoft would be crazy not to make Metro its default UI and relegate the classic desktop to quasi-legacy status.[/quote<] That might be close to logical if Windows were going to have anywhere near the penetration in the tablets space as it is going to have in the PC space during the lifetime of Windows 8. Alas, even if Windows 8 made impressive inroads into the tablet space, it won't be until its successor where you likely saw it beating out its PC numbers. Meanwhile, I suspect a great many of those Windows 8-based tablets will be ARM-based failures that sell poorly since the x86-based tablets are going to cost a mint.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      I’m really afraid we will become the victim of MS’s stubborness to get us to use Windows on tablets and smartphones.

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 7 years ago

    And yet I expect the amount of hrs people spend on tablets relative to pc’s to be barely changed, lol.

    • jstern
    • 7 years ago

    I’m actually enjoying Windows 8. Once you learn to use Windows Key + D to go back to the desktop, and Windows Key + C to go to the setting to shut it down or put it to sleep, using it becomes much better.

      • bthylafh
      • 7 years ago

      That’s some impressive discoverability right there.

        • jstern
        • 7 years ago

        Not a discovery, just stating how using short cuts can make things better. I understand how horrible it sounds without trying it.

          • Chrispy_
          • 7 years ago

          Those keyboard shortcuts are going to be really useful for your W8 tablet’s keyboard.
          Yeah, the keyboard that’s sold as an optional extra and usually folded back flush against the back of the tablet because PEOPLE SITTING AT DESKS USE DESKTOPS. Tablets are for people sitting at <NOT DESKS>

          • A_Pickle
          • 7 years ago

          I didn’t even know about those shortcuts, and loved Windows 8 when I tried it. Windows 8 x86 tablets with USB 3.0 and Thunderbolt strike my fancy quite well.

      • xeridea
      • 7 years ago

      I would rather not have to manually switch to desktop mode…. on a desktop, or have my start menu forcibly ripped away, including underlying libraries to make it harder for 3rd party tools (which will still come).

        • jstern
        • 7 years ago

        I understand your point, and I wish there was a way to get the start menu back. Heck I wish they would keep the start menu and have another key for Metro.

        As of now I like Metro better to open a program up over the start menu. It’s basically the same for both, press Start Key and start typing the name of the program and then press enter. But I have a big monitor and straining my next to the lower left, though not a big deal, it’s better to have it right in front of my face with Metro.

        Don’t get me wrong, I will be really pissed off if they don’t leave an option for the Start Menu.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]Once you learn to use Windows Key + D to go back to the desktop[/quote<] That says it all, doesn't it?

        • jstern
        • 7 years ago

        Usually it’s just the windows key, but if you also use some of the metro programs (I refuse to call them apps) to go back to the desktop Windows Key + D. On Windows 8 it just feels so much smoother to me switching between programs. It’s all really hard to explain.

        I didn’t like at first, so my point basically is that it’s actually very usable once a person gets used to it.

        Like the other day I was using PhotoShop, then I pressed the Start key then quickly clicked on an program that I wanted to use, and then later the desktop shortcut to go back to PhotoShop. I know it’s a rough example, but it just for me felt smooth in a way that I can’t describe. The point is more complicated to explain than it is, because it’s like a bunch of little things that add up to make the point.

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          You work for Microsoft, right?

          • Chrispy_
          • 7 years ago

          You’re describing the joy of multitasking using two apps. W8 is good at this, but so is EVERYTHING ELSE (apart from a 1st Gen iPad)

          Where W8 completely and utterly sucks, is actual, real-world, ‘I-am-juggling-a-dozen-applications’ mutlitasking. I mean HOLY CRAP it’s awkward on Windows 8. I’m making do with hotkeys.

          You don’t multitask to the same extent on a tablet – you interrupt task A to do task B, then you go back to task A. Windows 8 has yet to address some serious flaws with the ALT+TAB and task-switching functionality of non-Metro apps. And of course, you never officially close apps, you just suspend them until your ALT+TAB list is so big it’s useless and forces you to ALT+F4 everything (because they removed the close button) or End Process on their ass.

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            You can drag them over the huge screen, top to bottom… Very intuitive and very awkward. But that will close them.

          • Ifalna
          • 7 years ago

          Wait just a minute :<

          You think it’s more intuitive to press win+D and THEN choose your program which is supposed to be active than JUST CHOOSING by clicking with the mouse on the taskbar frame?!

          Do I have to understand this logic?

          Personally I could live with the metro start screen, if you force me to, but I sure as hell won’t use these forced full screen crap “Apps” Metro introduces.

          Well, I’m glad I can still do everything I want with my Win 7.

            • jstern
            • 7 years ago

            No, your understanding of my logic is incorrect.

          • sschaem
          • 7 years ago

          In windows7 you can do this better, and most importantly with less full screen flashing.

          Windows7 offer more ways to configure access to make the system adapt to your usage patterns, VS always having to deal with a grid of anonymous bright purple, bright green etc.. square on a full screen page.
          Who does MS think we all are ? 60 years old Farmeville grand ma ?

          The issue is that Metro is a touch based paradigm and Window8 force people to run productivity app on a touch only tablet paradigm **on a desktop environment**. The result is lost productivity.

          BTW, anyone thinking touch is a great idea for desktop… how far is your screen?
          For me I have to move forward to get close enough to touch my perfectly clean 24″ display.

          so yea, thats what I’m looking for, spending half my time moving back and worth extending my arm to click big ugly buttons, or get frustrated clicking tinny links and crap.

          And can you imagine people with multiple display ?! or people with laptops ? “Crap! that thing tilted over again…and wheres my new bottle of windex!!”

          OMG microsoft.

          The only solution is to have the display move closer to our hands to be considered usable.
          And that mean taking the keyboard away… and what happen to your neck at that point ?
          spend your day crooked typing and a flat piece of glass ?

          Thats the freaking future MS want to impose? Even in science fiction the touch surfaces are NOT the primary display, they are just configurable input devices.

      • Bensam123
      • 7 years ago

      So… you need to use hotkeys to get around something that is always in the way and effects your accessibility?

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        How else are you going to teach regular Joe all those pesky shortcuts?

    • Arclight
    • 7 years ago

    Linux is looking more attractive day after day.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      Mint, yes! But Ubuntu with Unity is a clustershit 🙂

        • Anarchist
        • 7 years ago

        ubuntu 12.04 with unity is running fine for me.

          • xeridea
          • 7 years ago

          Ubuntu – Unity is fine, Unity is the problem. They tried forcing the new interface on everyone, and not everyone likes it. Though you can install 12.04, and use an alternative desktop environment.

            • Chandalen
            • 7 years ago

            I’m really enjoying xfce on my circa 2005 laptop. It’s most definitely not ready for widespread usage.

            • willmore
            • 7 years ago

            I thought that when I was using it on F16, but under F17, it’s much better. SNB laptop.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      Tablet’s give us the change to switch to Linux, that’s true.
      Desktop’s don’t.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        It’s really not that bad, I tell you, I’m not pro Linux, but after bearing with it for a year, you get used to it.

        There are a some things that are better, some things that are the same, and only few things that suck. The ones that suck is the games availability and Unity. Other than that it’s a smooth sailing, and you can get rid of Unity in favor of Mint. So game availability is the ONLY issue why I’m not 100% Linux user.

          • nanoflower
          • 7 years ago

          One of these days I will have to try out the various interfaces available for Linux. So far I haven’t done that even though I work on Linux on a regular basis every week. I just use the command line to accomplish what I need to do since none of the interfaces would provide more capability (especially since I’m working remotely.)

      • Bensam123
      • 7 years ago

      If only they ran Windows applications…

      I think from now on everyone who says Nix is better then Windows I will challenge them to make a version of Nix that can run Windows apps. Maybe one day it will happen and the 80% of us that agree with you can change OS’s. Until then, Nix is going to stay a enterprise infrastructure thing.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        The truth is, Nix runs Windows applications, a lot of them actually… I can’t say I like the implementation though, and I prefer true Nix executable over emulator. But most apps do run fine…

        I just browsed Wine database, and I’m shocked to tell you, but they even support fresh games like:
        – Skyrim [url<]http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=13667[/url<] - DX:HR [url<]http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=13150[/url<] I wasn't expecting that... I guess I will have to try it out some day, maybe the situation is better than I expected...

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          it’s not. that’s a bronze rating on skyrim. you can’t go underwater, and going from different areas to other areas makes the game f up.

          dx doesn’t look too bad. you have to edit some files, but seems not too bad.

          • bjm
          • 7 years ago

          Just don’t get your hopes up too high.

          If you’re expecting Wine to run “a lot” of Windows apps, be prepared for disappointment. Compatibility is still fickle at best and there is no guarantee that what works now will work in the next release. On top of that, the configuration that works best for a specific game on a specific version of wine may not be the best configuration for another specific game on that same version of wine on your particular distro. Confused yet? And no, separate .wine prefixes is not a solution. And yes, this issue persists even between stable wine releases.

          And this isn’t a jab at the wine project at at all, it’s a great project. But it’s often pitched to new Linux users as something it is not.

          Bottom Line: Don’t jump on the Linux bandwagon thinking majority of your Windows apps will run. Run Linux to run Linux apps and run Windows to run Windows apps. At best, Wine should be a last resort option.

          • Bensam123
          • 7 years ago

          Everything I’ve heard about wine including using it myself hasn’t been that thrilling. It has huge performance issues, glitches, bugs, half the time it doesn’t work, the other half it doesn’t render things properly if it does render them at all.

          Games aside are you talking about running Windows applications in Nix through Wine? That has the same issues as with games if you are…

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      The day Linux supports the current version of DirectX is the day it will become an OS for the masses.

      Until then, it’s niche. DirectX is basically the API that anything requiring graphics power uses. OpenGL is all but dead.

        • blastdoor
        • 7 years ago

        “OpenGL is all but dead.”

        Did you know that Epic Games most profitable game is OpenGL only?

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          You meant Id Software, no?

            • Laykun
            • 7 years ago

            Epic games : Infinity Blade, OpenGL ES 2.0.

            • Sahrin
            • 7 years ago

            LOL@Selective criteria for success!

          • Chrispy_
          • 7 years ago

          9 out of 10 titles are DirectX.
          Yes, you can cite examples of OpenGL games if you want, but statistically OpenGL is irrelevant to the gaming market.

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 7 years ago

            Every cross platform game runs on openGL on the ps3.

          • BobbinThreadbare
          • 7 years ago

          That’s wrong. Gears of War was still more profitable, just a smaller ratio of work-hours to profit.

        • BobbinThreadbare
        • 7 years ago

        The PS3 uses OpenGL Ex.

      • Sahrin
      • 7 years ago

      “I fear change, and will run away now.” – Arclight

        • Arclight
        • 7 years ago

        When the change is for the worse…..oh yeah.

      • destroy.all.monsters
      • 7 years ago

      +1 Way more fail than Vista was. There’s time to change it before manufacturing but I doubt it will happen.

        • A_Pickle
        • 7 years ago

        God, I know. Clicking a button to use the exact same desktop environment as Windows 7 is [i<]suuuuuuch[/i<] a drag.

          • destroy.all.monsters
          • 7 years ago

          I haven’t tried the newest build – but they are disabling deliberately the start button hacks and from what I’ve heard about those newer builds is that it is harder to get to and that you will get Metro whether you like it or not. And that is just what they’re saying publicly.

    • tviceman
    • 7 years ago

    I understand how and why Microsoft is investing so much in a touch interface. But for the love of god, allow desktop users to boot straight into the desktop. It’s such a simple and easy-to-implement request.

      • superjawes
      • 7 years ago

      It does baffle me that Microsoft isn’t using the tools that they have to make Metro easier to switch to. I don’t think you need to boot to desktop, but there are a lot of ways to make the new interface similar to Windows 7, or just use the Windows key as a better intuitive tool.

      That’s a bit more complicated, but it would definitely work within both the desktop and mobile paradigms.

      • mcnabney
      • 7 years ago

      What part of “you are going to do it the way Microsoft wants you to do it” do you not understand?

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        The one where there is no Microsoft on Linux/Mac/Android/Chromebook/Kindle and they cost less?

    • jjj
    • 7 years ago

    Your headline is misleading, there is a big difference between PCs and desktop PCs.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      I think that’s the biggest problem. MS thinks that PC is everything, including tablets and phones.

      But we have productivity PCs that are PCs, notebooks, that are already sacrificing productivity, but are still kinda PCs, transformers, that are hybrid PCs, and tablets which are shitty PCs, and are more of a personal digital devices.

      • glynor
      • 7 years ago

      The Microsoft quote may have mentioned “desktop PCs” but that was just a phrasing mistake. Tablets will indeed almost certainly outsell [b<]all PCs[/b<] at some point next year, probably by the fall quarter if not earlier. [url<]http://www.asymco.com/2012/03/02/when-will-the-tablet-market-be-larger-than-the-pc-market/[/url<] If you only include true "Desktop PCs" it would happen even sooner, as it would if you excluded Macs from the "PC Sales" side. The only potential issue that could slow the transition down would be if Android tablets never see the predicted uptake and continue to flounder in the market. Then, sales would be largely limited by Apple's capability to produce iPads, which would keep overall numbers down. Of course, if the Windows RT tablets actually do ship in volume for Q4, and they see good initial uptake, that could counteract some of Android's failure in this space. We'll see.

    • Silus
    • 7 years ago

    Touch is coming to PCs ? Must’ve been some memo I didn’t get…

    Microsoft is insane if it thinks that because “touch is coming to PCs” (which it isn’t) the Metro UI is justified for the desktop. Good luck with that Microsoft…I’ve tried Win 8 RP on my PC and…er…no thanks!

    • mcnabney
    • 7 years ago

    Touch is NOT coming to PCs.

    Sorry, but Microsoft is out of their mind if they think that ‘touch’ is coming to the desktop or laptop. Touch is only useful when the form-factor doesn’t easily allow for precision inputs like mouse/kb/controller. So it is great for tablets, but lousy for fixed screens. Do they really think that consumers are going to want to get their greasy dickbeaters all over their screens at home? Touch only makes sense when you ARE ALREADY TOUCHING THE DISPLAY. Forcing the the desktop/laptop market into an interface that is neither practical nor intuitive is stupid. Doing it when you have little experience in the tablet market, but have hundreds of millions of existing installations to alienate is insane. Metro should be a skin the user can enable, no more.

      • Sahrin
      • 7 years ago

      >Touch is NOT coming to PCs.

      I think you’re missing the point, because of TR’s poor headline (though if you had read the actual quote, you wouldn’t’ve been confused). Tablet = PC. Tablets are going to be a bigger seller than the traditional desktop next year, therefore – touch is coming to PC’s generally, not just in a niche fashion.

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        Tablet is not a PC. If you say they are because they are a computer, then your smartphone is a PC. PCs are computers actually worth doing, that can run any software, not just ghetto Metro apps, and angry birds. Tablets are a niche market, useful for specific purposes, and 90% of tablet buyers don’t benefit from them.

          • Sahrin
          • 7 years ago

          >Tablet is not a PC.

          According to Microsoft, it is. According to their economists and business execs, the tablet “niche” will be larger than the “PC” niche – which suggests to me that your read on their usefulness notwithstanding, a lot of people want them.

            • superjawes
            • 7 years ago

            I’m shocked that surprises people. Sure, anyone reading TR makes heavy use of computers outside of web browsing, sending emails, or playing casual games, but for many people, that is all they do, and even your heavier computer users spend their fair share of time on these things. (Don’t lie!)

            Tablets are just feeding that in a big way, especially on the game front. Even if you don’t consider a Tablet a PC, any OS developer would be stupid to ignore the platform.

          • A_Pickle
          • 7 years ago

          I’d say your smartphone or your tablet is more of a “personal computer” than a desktop is… I love desktops, but…

      • superjawes
      • 7 years ago

      ::ahem::

      In case you haven’t noticed, people already touch screens…even the nice, glossy, hi-def, NON-touch displays in the conference rooms here have greasy prints all over them.

        • Alexko
        • 7 years ago

        Conference rooms are one thing, but if someone soils my personal monitors with their greasy fingers, I’ll bite them off.

          • superjawes
          • 7 years ago

          I hate that, too….so much. If it was a touch screen, I would care a little less, as I would clean it regularly, but if you know that it’s a normal LCD, stop stabbing the display.

      • OneArmedScissor
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]Do they really think that consumers...[/quote<] ...need a keyboard to "consume" Youtube videos and bookface, which is pretty much all they've been doing for years with laptops [i<]and[/i<] phones? Wrong interpretation of article is wrong. PC just means personal computer, as in however an individual defines it. The market has chosen. People are not walking around with desktops in their pockets. You can still use a keyboard with a phone or tablet. MS is giving options, not pointing a gun at anyone and making people touch things they shouldn't be. Only the government does that.

        • BobbinThreadbare
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]MS is giving options, not pointing a gun at anyone and making people touch things they shouldn't be.[/quote<] They're giving me options? Like the option to have a traditional start menu? Or the option to not have to deal with hotspots (seriously I thought those died in Win 95)? Or the option to buy an app for my Windows tablet where ever I like?

          • OneArmedScissor
          • 7 years ago

          Oh. I forgot. When Windows 8 is released, all Windows installations are being deleted!

          How am I still using XP?!?!? Bizarro world!!11!1!!!!

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 7 years ago

            So you bought that license of XP in 2012?

            The fact that you can use an old product that MS doesn’t sell or support is not “Microsoft giving you options.”

            • OneArmedScissor
            • 7 years ago

            You don’t need an XP license. Just a downgrade or Technet license. So yes, if I wanted, I could.

            Hey, the change the subject game can be fun! How about we change it back to the original subject?

            You want a traditional start menu, even [i<]combined[/i<] with touch screen support and no app store requirement? May I present to you...Windows 7, which isn't going anywhere, because every single business will be hooked on it for as long as XP!

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 7 years ago

            The original subject was your claim that Microsoft was giving customers options when in fact with their newest product I feel that they’re taking options away.

            All the things mentioned were examples.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            they are giving options. you now have the options of touch, or a mouse. that’s an additional option. you also have the option of not upgrading.

            • OneArmedScissor
            • 7 years ago

            My original subject was that you are not [i<]forced[/i<] into something if you don't want to be. You will still be able to get Windows 7, even on a new tablet. Where's the force involved here? ARM tablets and phones are stuck with Windows 8, but I don't see Apple, Google, RIM, or HP offering a touch screen OS that's not based on an app store. MS is the only one doing both at the same time. How is that not an option?

            • bthylafh
            • 7 years ago

            Oh? Did Ballmer come out and say that people can still buy Win7 once Win8 is released?

            • BobbinThreadbare
            • 7 years ago

            Google allows side loading and there are alternative markets for it, Amazon has a big one.

            • xeridea
            • 7 years ago

            Others aren’t forcing desktop users to use a tablet OS. You still have the option now, but the way things are going, all future MS OSs will be this garbage, and eventually they won’t sell Win7, so I guess they could give you the option to pirate it later when they try to force this garbage on you.

            • xeridea
            • 7 years ago

            If Windows 9 is the same as Windows 8, businesses will hold on to Win7 forever. If MS stops, selling it, there will be a black/pirate market for it.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            Exactly this.

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        If you are going to lug around a keyboard with a tablet, you may as well get a laptop, which is generally cheaper, and can actually run useful software.

      • superjawes
      • 7 years ago

      And on the subject of “forcing” touch onto desktops and laptops, sorry, but I think you are just plain wrong. Nowhere have I seen someone suggest that a touch interface was [i<]required[/i<] to use something like Windows 8. In that respect alone, adding touch capability would be useful, because you could use it when it makes sense. I've had plenty of trouble trying to zoom and pan images with a keyboard and mouse, and multi-touch gestures has already solved that problem on touch devices. And what about track pads? They've always had something off about them, and again, touch interfaces have solved a lot of this issue by letting users slide things around. Touch is a tool, and I think it is coming (at least as an option) to all computers (maybe anything with a screen). I also think that it's going to make the computer experience better, even for those resisting it now. EDIT: As a parallel, there was a lot of hate and dismissal of the Wii among hardcore gamers (still is, too), mainly on the topic of motion controls. Just a few years later, Nintendo's competitors are scrambling to get their own motion controllers implemented.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        i think you make some excellent points.

        • mcnabney
        • 7 years ago

        You don’t think that redesigning the entire UI around touch isn’t ‘forcing’?

          • superjawes
          • 7 years ago

          No, it isn’t. Your mouse a keyboard still work with it. On the other hand, now the interface can be used on platforms that make heavy/exclusive use of touch screens as well.

          I also think that you’re looking at this as: “Metro is coming, therefore everything is going to need touch.” I think it’s the other way around. I think touch interfaces are becoming really good tools, and Metro is trying to accomodate that. As I mentioned before, touch solves some of the limitations of a mouse a keyboard, and making that tool available is a good idea.

          Now I’m not saying Metro is perfect, and I think Microsoft is missing a lot of easy ways to ease the transition, but they certainly aren’t forcing new PCs to [b<]have[/b<] touch screens.

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            It is forcing!

            Not forcing would be if the start menu was there, and the question during user creation would ask, which interface you would like to use as the primary, and allowing simple switch between them. Transformer FTW!

            However, none of this is happening, UI is forced, and easy to use features are taken away for business/productivity users. And are replaced with teen-style, single thread, consume-only, flashing crap. Crap not because I don’t like metro, but crap from content creator point of view.

            I tried win8 and despite me trying to like it, I’m back to win7, and it’s not because I don’t see where Metro is cool, or don’t feel the improvements. It’s because the system is broken for productivity use.

            Having those two UIs side by side, unraped, and allowing you to choose the default one, I would say win8 is the best OS from MS ever. In the current form, it’s a perversion, I will not install on my PCs.

            • superjawes
            • 7 years ago

            Let me be clear for a moment:

            I’M NOT ARGUING FOR METRO.

            I’m not even talking about Metro being forced on people. I’m talking about whether or not [b<]touch technology[/b<] is being forced on people, and it is not. The Metro debate is another monster entirely. Its only relation to my points is that it is coming, and it works with mouse+keyboard or a touch screen. That shift brings touch technology closer to a desktop and laptop environment (as an optional tool). That change in the market, I think, is coming, is inevitible, and will ultimately be accepted. How Metro fits in that world is another debate.

            • mcnabney
            • 7 years ago

            This wouldn’t be an issue if booting to Metro was an option, left the Start button, and if MS left Mediacenter and OTA/cable tuning alone.

            How flipping hard is it to have two buttons on the login screen – one for desktop and one for Metro? They are just being dicks because they can. I don’t like giving unhelpful jerks my money!

            • superjawes
            • 7 years ago

            Again, I’m not arguing for or against Metro. Your original argument goes back to:
            [quote<]Touch is NOT coming to PCs[/quote<] That, and the idea that touch interfaces are being forced is what I am arguing against. I think the technology is coming to any platform that could support it, and Metro is just trying to support that. Metro's ultimate fate is that other monster I mentioned

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        You don’t need to zoom and pan on a laptop. You only need to scroll up and down… with scroll wheel, or touchpad. If you really feel like zooming, just hold control while scrolling…. thats super hard though, it requires both hands. I am not a fan of touchpads, so use a mouse whenever possible (99% of the time I am working on desktop so its a non issue), though I would take touchpad over being forced to use a touch interface in a pointing device world.

          • superjawes
          • 7 years ago

          I wasn’t just talking about laptops. I was talking about opening high resolution prints (on a desktop) and having to search complicated drawings for what I’m looking for. Having an image resize by using a touch interface would make my job easier. And scroll wheels are nice, but for some reason, left/right scrolling never caught on like up/down, and middle clicking doesn’t always work. Again, a touch interfance would offer both on any computer.

          And you’re still not being forced to use anything. If you really want to get fancy, you can navigate Windows and most web browsers without a mouse, but having a mouse simplifies things considerably. If you had other tools that simplified complicated tasks, wouldn’t you prefer the easier method?

          • oldog
          • 7 years ago

          Whoa, another youngster with really good eyesight. Ah, I remember the days when I could actually see the numbers on the bathroom scale when I stood on it.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      I have a touch screen on my gps system, and I had one on my pda.
      First: I had to throw away my pda because one (1) spot of the screen didn’t work anymore.
      Two: I’m seriously afraid of damaging the gps screen; as it is a mobile device, there’s always the risk that it’s hit by something sharp or rudely, which might damage the screen.
      In general I don’t like touch screens.
      I also have to use touch screens in the bank, post office and several other institutions where everybody has to use the same computer, and then it’s more or less usefull. But it’s also quite frustrating if – again – it doesn’t work.
      Touch will be one of those “just not” technologies, like speech recognition (which might be the biggest failure of the past ten years).

      • Malphas
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]Sorry, but Microsoft is out of their mind if they think that 'touch' is coming to the desktop or laptop. Touch is only useful when the form-factor doesn't easily allow for precision inputs like mouse/kb/controller.[/quote<] Like a laptop when not using it at a desk with an external mouse then? Touch is awful for desktops obviously, but frankly it's ideally suited to laptops, especially ones with small screens. If all I want to do is launch an application or click on a tab/link/etc. then touch is much faster and easier than than trying to precisely use a trackpad while on a moving vehicle (train, plane, taxi) or while balancing a notebook on one's lap. Maybe those complaining so vehemently about touchscreens all have sausage-fingers or something.

        • superjawes
        • 7 years ago

        I think it’s more stigma than anything else. Notice how “casual” is still a dirty word in gaming circles? Even though Nintendo has raced circles around Microsoft and Sony with the Wii, it’s still a “casual” system that gamers don’t take seriously.

        Tablets (and smartphones) are similar. They are more like “casual” computers, and therefore don’t deserve the same kind of recognition as the PC master race, since PCs are so much more powerful. Even though tablets are doing a lot of interesting things, they’re not considered serious computers or gaming devices.

        I think there are cases where a touch option would make a desktop interface better (like exploring and marking up large technical drawings). It will never replace a mouse and keyboard, but having it as a possible tool would be great.

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]Metro should be a skin the user can enable, no more[/quote<] Truer words have never before been spoken.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        of course they have.

Pin It on Pinterest

Share This