Office 2013 Customer Preview now available

Not content with revamping Windows and Windows Phone this year, Microsoft is also cooking up a major new release of Office, too. During his a keynote earlier today, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer publicy demonstrated the new productivity suite. Ballmer also announced that, starting today, consumers and businesses can try Office 2013 for themselves by grabbing the Office 2013 Customer Preview.

The pre-release trial can be downloaded from this page. It’s available as part of one of three subscription services—Office 365 ProPlus, Office 365 Small Business Premium, and Office 365 Enterprise—and it requires either Windows 7 or Windows 8 to run.

As you’d expect, Windows 8 integration plays a central role in the new Office release. Staple apps like Word, Excel, and PowerPoint have gotten a fresh coat of paint to fit in with the new Metro style, and they now support touch and stylus input. Two Office applications, OneNote and Lync, have gotten complete Metro makeovers. Microsoft says those two apps are the "first new Windows 8 style applications for Office." Here’s the new OneNote in action:

Ballmer also touted the new Office’s ARM support. Windows 8 RT, which will hit ARM tablets in October, is due to ship with Office Home and Student 2013 out of the box. (You’ll have to buy the software for x86 editions of Windows 8, though.)

Cloud integration and collaboration are key components of Office 2013, as well. According to Microsoft, documents are saved to SkyDrive by default, and Office remembers settings, recently used files, and custom dictionaries across multiple systems and devices. Folks who don’t have access to their main PCs can even stream "full-featured applications to an Internet-connected Windows-based PC." On top of that, Microsoft has integrated Yammer, an enterprise social network, with SharePoint and Microsoft Dynamics. The firm plans to bundle Skype with the new Office and to offer Skype minutes to Office 365 subscribers, too.

Microsoft doesn’t say exactly when it plans to release Office 2013, but it expects to announce the "the full lineup of [Office 2013] offerings and pricing plans" some time this fall. Among the new Office plans will be the new subscription offerings: Office 365 Home Premium, Small Business Premium, and ProPlus. As part of those subscriptions, customers will get access to Word, Excel, PowerPoint, OneNote, Outlook, Publisher, and Access, and they’ll enjoy "future rights to version upgrades as well as per-use rights across up to five PCs or Macs and mobile devices." Each edition will have its own perks, like extra SkyDrive storage or HD web-conferencing capabilities.

Comments closed
    • BIF
    • 7 years ago

    I hate subscriptions.

    If I must use Office for business, will I be required to buy three subscriptions to support my PC, Android smartphone and iPad?

    I have no idea whether it will be available in those platforms. I just hate subscriptions for everything from games to magazines, so I had to vent here. Blagh.

    • marraco
    • 7 years ago

    And how many features MS REMOVED on this version. Oh, wait. I don’t even care.

    • evrista
    • 7 years ago

    I am presenting a cautionary tale for your testing fun. I installed the office 2013 preview on a windows 8 virtual machine and connected outlook to my exchange 2010 SP1 account. I decided I needed to empty my deleted items folder as it was a bit cluttered. I right clicked and chose empty folder and answered yes to the are you sure prompt. Outlook 2013 proceeded to delete EVERYTHING from my mailbox, contacts, mail, calendar and every single folder. After this happened I did a quick google and found one other person on the Microsoft forums who had a similar result. So as a warning test Outlook 2013 carefully with exchange 2010.

    • MarioJP
    • 7 years ago

    I might get down rank and go off the topic to respond most of the hate that is going on here what i am about to say but idc. The fact that direct X does not suck one bit is the reason why its thriving. The fact Direct X brings multimedia and not just about graphics is why the support is there not to mention much easier for developers to program than that dreaded so called PS3 lmao.

    You all can hate Microsoft all you want. Can’t deny that direct X brings good visuals and real gaming compared to consoles. Secondly Directx is just a communication barrier that squeezes every once out of the hardware very well. a bit too well. OpenGL is playing catchup. Only thing Opengl is able to demonstrate is mobile gaming and i have to say not bad for mobile, but lets be honest here its not a real contender compared to directx. Onpengl is simply not serious about gaming. Kind of like the Mac.

    Mac gaming. Even the way that sounds does not sounds right lmao.

    Lastly Directx keeps getting better by each revision. Some games are fully trimmed when done properly. Its up to the developer how well they can “squeeze” all that horsepower out.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      You have no clue, do you?

      Thriving and does not suck cannot be more unrelated. Please remember that DirectX started to get popular at DirectX 3 or something. Most games back then supported the software/opengl/directx renderers side by side. And DirectX 3 till like 9 sucked a lot.

      Did it affect one thing? Nope, marketing dollars rule the world.

      And DirectX brings good visuals? It has *nothing* to do with DirectX, to tell the truth you could get even better visuals with OpenGL. Extensions and true quad buffers being few of the possibilities. Did you know that 3D Vision is a driver hack, because only true stereo rendering is available through OpenGL?

      Good visuals are only depending on hardware, APIs only need to make sure they don’t get in a way, like DirectX did before instancing for example.

      And if you talk about good visuals, Rage is OpenGL, it’s by far the prettiest game at the moment IMHO.

      Cryengine is capable to work with both DirectX and OpenGL. And there are many more.

      The problem is that DirectX is marketed, you hear GPUs compared on DirectX revision, you hear it in schools, Internet, students start their discoveries about computer graphics from DirectX, because it’s all they hear, and so on.

      However, it doesn’t change the fact that only single entity benefiting from DirectX is Microsoft. Only the Microsoft, everyone else would benefit from an open standard.

      Don’t believe me? Name the single reason why people don’t install Linux or MacOS on their PCs. Games! And games, because of DirectX platform lock.

      Otherwise Linux and MacOS is super stable, and super usable nowadays. I’m using Mint right now, and I can’t even express how polished it feels compared to Win8 for example. And no, I’m not a Linux fanboy, but for the last couple of years I know what free choice between Android/Mac/Windows/Linux means, and I don’t want to give it away, and I want more of that!

        • Ringofett
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]Don't believe me? Name the single reason why people don't install Linux or MacOS on their PCs. Games! And games, because of DirectX platform lock.[/quote<] And hardware support. I've also been able to do awful, evil, twisted things to Win7 without ever even considering pulling up a console. Linux desktop distro's haven't got quite that easy to use, yet. I'm also a little put off by the way it's organized, though that might be an education issue. /bin ? /lib? /user? I prefer everything going in one folder, so I know where to find a program and all its assorted junk. (That hidden ProgramData folder and AppData ones get my ire as well, particularly since apps tend to stick hundreds of mb's of crap in them)

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          Mint 13, Ubuntu 10.04LTS+ are super cool with hardware, everything works out of the box. I would even go as far as to say that it works better than Windows.

          Which version did you tried? What is the problematic hardware? Overall it’s not year 2000 anymore in Linux world. I’m pleasantly surprised actually.

          Concerning organization, it’s weird, I couldn’t get used to it, and I still have problems fully understanding the approach. But after two years of side by side Windows and Linux, I would say Nix approach is *by far* superior.

          You can pretty much transfer apps from one install to another, all settings are in one place and so on. Really, really neat.

          The only downside is figuring out how much free space you have left. Works if you don’t follow the guideline where /home, /, /boot reside on different partitions and you just cram everything together, and I really recommend using single partition for / and everything up. But as soon as you have different mount points and partitions, shit hits the fan, and you loose any idea of what happens. df -h is a joke…

    • oldog
    • 7 years ago

    I still use a use a Windows 6.5 Standard smartphone. I also use XP and Office 2000. I LOVE them all.

    iPhone sucks. Android sucks. RIM sucks. WinPhone sucks. Windows 7/Vista sucks. Office 2003/2007/2019/2013 suck. The cloud sucks. Calculators suck.

    I’m a tech Luddite. Old tech is great tech! All this new crap is for sissies (and my wife)!

    To effin’ bad I can’t find any programs for my old DOS box in the basement. Where is my old analog modem and slide rule?

      • mac_h8r1
      • 7 years ago

      I’ll bet you end upgrading to Office 2019.

      • [+Duracell-]
      • 7 years ago

      By that logic, you must think that COBOL is the best programming language to ever grace this planet.

    • provoko
    • 7 years ago

    Looks like I’m keeping my Office 2007 FOREVER! Onenote 2007 is just an incredible product and it keeps getting shit on in every release. Was a metro style overhaul really necessary?

    Onenote 2007 FTW.

    I’m still waiting for a website to give me a triple tabbed word processory like onenote; zoho is the closest one but their site is so slow and clunky.

    • DeadOfKnight
    • 7 years ago

    I wonder how many people complaining are actually trying the preview and how many are just complaining.

      • rrr
      • 7 years ago

      You are complaining about people complaining, creating never ending circle of irony.

        • DeadOfKnight
        • 7 years ago

        I wasn’t complaining, I was just wondering.

    • ronch
    • 7 years ago

    I’ve stuck with OpenOffice/LibreOffice for quite a few years now and, although it works well enough for basic things, I’ve run across many bugs. Some drove me crazy like a presentation that I created with LO and couldn’t open properly later on…with LO!… which ended up with me having to re-do hours of work. Others were a bit less serious or maddening, like there was this time I was using Calc and highlighted a column of cells and pressing the summation button to add everything up, but after checking my work I found out that one of the cells wasn’t included in the sum!

    Don’t get me wrong, OOO/LO is a credible piece of work, but things like that just aren’t acceptable in the workplace, and that’s when I think commercial packages still rule.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      It’s not that bad as you make it sound.

        • ronch
        • 7 years ago

        It is, if you were in my shoes and you were rushing just like I was then. And yes, that happened when I was in a hurry creating our presentation for our thesis defense, and the Calc problem happened when I was running some numbers for work.

    • Arag0n
    • 7 years ago

    Lol, from the 4 websites I use to read about tech, this is by far the most hater one about Windows 8, and now it´s also the one that seems to dislike the most from the new Office.

    Funny thing, we are all PC players I guess and we have been using Windows to play for ages… I feel that pc players are the only players that HATE their platform. People seems to forget that it was Microsoft who pushed the move from DOS to Windows for games using directx. Before directx, most of the games were developed for DOS! I still remember playing those games in Win 95 and 98…. long I think both Carmagedons were developed for DOS, at least the first one for sure, duken nuken, and plenty other titles long time after Win95 was the mainstream.

    PC Developers had several issues with developing games as desktop apps so Microsoft had to design a framework for them to do so and that was directx. Then, MS developed and improved pretty fast DX from 1.0 to 8.0 to make sure games had all they needed to improve. Once directx9 was in the market, changes became more minor because there wasn´t many things to add, but still dx10 and dx11 are good improvements. But Win95 to WinXP went from DX1.0 to 9.0… from 1995 to 2002, one version per year and from 2002 to 2012 we only had 2, dx10 and dx11, so it´s normal we “forget” how much effort made MS to make Windows a viable gaming platform since the infrastructure was done long time ago and last improvements are incremental.

    So, it´s hard for me to understand that MS is the most hated company in this website, really are we crazy? If Apple was the most popular company we would live in a world without computer builds, what apple chooses it´s what you buy and what you get, don´t ever try building your own machines. And… linux… well…. don´t expect linux gaming to be as it´s now on Windows, you may say that gaming on linux is not too far, but you know? Most of the things for gaming in Linux are a copy of the moves MS did on Windows to allow developing of games for desktop-based OSs. If not cuz microsoft, Linux games most likely would be “terminal based”, no kidding.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      You evangelize DirectX as it’s some sort of a miracle.

      In reality DirectX is a deliberate attempt to kill off the competition. And, world would be a so much better place without DirectX.

      OpenGL can do anything that DirectX can do, and more. And it’s fully cross platform, starting from PC side – PC/MAC/*NIX, ending with smartphones, PS3, and whatnot. First versions of DirectX were crap compared to OpenGL, it’s only a long stream of marketing dollars that has changed the situation.

      Study the facts.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        Don’t forget Glide too. 3dfx started 3d PC gaming as we know it.

        edit: Specifics. 3dfx didn’t start 2d gaming, and whoever is downvoting is an idiot. If it wasn’t for 3dfx 3d gaming wouldn’t have taken off. Quakeworld. Diablo2. Unreal. Tribes. Need for Speed.

        Meh. Trolling is probably the main factor here, as who the hell is upvoting SSK. I remember a time SSK got -22 on average.

          • Arag0n
          • 7 years ago

          So true, so sad the went out of business.

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          Yeah, it was the only card in Carmaggedon that could do neat fog effects, and even though I had Riva TNT back then, I always thought why I can’t get the pretty things.

          In a long term, the Riva was the best choice though.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          it’s my tight crew that votes me up. them and the fact that I’M THE RIGHTEST.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            Scum of the earth is more accurate.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            what? you know, l33t, my angel, that i’m starting to think you’re not having fun anymore…. i hope that’s not the case, as i genuinely wouldn’t like to ACTUALLY UPSET you. I hope you enjoy our discussions as much as i do.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            No, I just don’t like you, and to take your Superman analogy, remind me of Bizarro.

            • ludi
            • 7 years ago

            And you wonder why you were getting downvoted.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            Still do. :p

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            well, can we still hug?

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            No. I don’t like hugging strangers, and it’s physically impossible.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            ♥ u l33t, i think this applies to you:

            [url<]http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2010/289/8/4/needing_a_hug_by_theinversion-d30urax.jpg[/url<]

            • ludi
            • 7 years ago

            Because you hate.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            I don’t hate SSK, I just don’t like him, and think he’s wrong on almost everything. There may be a fine line, but I’m walking right on it.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            wrong on everthing? THE OTHER DAY YOU SAID YOU AGREED WITH ME!!!!!!

            • dpaus
            • 7 years ago

            And then he realized that he was wrong.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            I specifically stated it was an exception to the norm, and it was more of a partial agreement. It’s not impossible for me to agree with you, just implausible..

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            well, everything means EVERYTHING. so you think i’m wrong on ALMOST EVERYTHING. on that we can agree

            edit. you did actually say “almost everything”, so MY WHOLE POINT IS DUMB.

            EDIT YOU EDITED THAT COMMENT. MAYBE IT WASN’T?

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            Quite possibly the best thread ever on TR.

            At least that was utterly non-topical. 🙂

        • Arag0n
        • 7 years ago

        No, I don´t. But there is a difference between a Drawing Library and DirectX. DirectX is not just about drawing. DirectX is the equivalent to a drawing library to make 2D/3D games, it´s also a input library to abstract gamepads, keyboards and mouse (did we forget what was like to have a gamepad or joystick?) and it´s also an abstraction layer for the sound system (did we forget what was like buying a Sound Blaser to be able to have an easy setup in games?)….

        DirectX is not just OpenGL, it´s also a Framework. And last time I check, game developers talked about DirectX being more developer friendly than OpenGL in the latest iterations. Sure it may have been a ripoff at the beginning with less features and harder to work out, just as Direct Compute might be compared to CUDA or OpenCL… but sometimes it´s the marketing dollars to pay companies to use your technology what makes companies do the jump.

        AMD is pushing the use of OpenCL and AMP++ for GPU computing because they need APU´s to be competitive with Intel. They wouldn´t do that if they didn´t need to and most of companies would just keep working with normal x86 programming. It might be true in the future, that GPU computing became normal because AMD achieved the point were they had several companies showing how much better is a GPU enabled application that non-enabled ones looked dated and slow, so they were pushed to do the same even without AMD money.

        DirectX is the same, there might have existed different options before it, but no option was able to make the market move in a single direction to make use of it. And you know? I remember first 3D games as Unreal or Unreal Tournament to let you choose between OpenGL and DirectX rendering and most of the time DirectX was much better. Maybe because Microsoft $´s, but I don´t care what´s the reason, I just care gaming was able to get better.

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          There is an OpenAL, and parsing input is not really that bad for MacOS or *nix.

          Also, note that OpenAL is the only library that offers hardware acceleration starting from Vista, you can’t kill an Open library.

          The OpenGL/OpenAL/DirectInput on Windows, OpenGL/OpenAL/GetKeys() on Mac/Nix is still a viable option as well. All clean, all portable and with minimal changes from platform to platform.

          Of course, since the advertisement campaign was successful, everyone jumped to DirectX, and this is where the money went. But OpenGL is still superior. It’s the only API with true quad buffers for stereo rendering, and this is where all new things get tested through extensions.

          Also, things like instancing were never relevant to OpenGL, because there was no issue to begin with.

            • Arag0n
            • 7 years ago

            You kno, I was like you when iOS was out and iPhone was winning to Windows Mobile. I was thinking why people buy iphone like crazy. Most of Windows Mobile phones are crap because manufacturer but if they buy a phone as expensive as an iphone its usually much better, and if apps or games are not as good is because developers are lazy.

            However, there was a reason, it´s called framework. The frameworks to work out apps and games for windows mobile were so crappy, that only big companies with pretty good teams were able to develop good apps or games. So there was very phew good ones, almost nothing. The iPhone had a strong framework from the beginning and games were “easy” to be made, so developers created games and apps, saw the platform grow and those developers that joined now are big studios most of them.

            DirectX is the same. You may be able to do everything without DirectX, and every single library per se might be better than what DirectX offer in their own part. But, the framework as a whole is not. And that was specially true years ago when game engines were not as common as now. Now game engines do the “hard work” to talk between the OS capabilities and the game developers. Somehow game engines are the “new directx”, but there was no game engines back to 1995 to 2003…

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            If the most complex part of your game, that’s make it or break it, is how you call graphics and sound API, and process input, then I have bad news for you… Your game sucks beyond imagination.

            AI, physics, economy, object memory management, shading algorithms, data storage, and stuff like that is a lot more difficult. And by a lot, I mean an order of magnitude.

            Heck, it takes 2 days to write a tech demo with relief mapping, refractions, dynamic cube maps, and stencil shadows in OpenGL, including parse keys and annoying background music via OpenAL. I’ve done it myself.

            Most of that would be spent on loading images and objects from disk, setting up normals, matrix inverse calculation stuff, TBN base vector calculation code and shader setup.

            The code is:
            Init OpenGL ~ 50 lines of code
            Read files ~ 20 lines of code
            glAttribArray * x (vertex, normal, texture, tangent) ~ 10 lines max
            shader load and compile ~ 50 lines of code
            if(GetKeys(VK_UP)) eye_vec += normalize(look_vec)*speed; *4 for all directions, cross product for strafe
            Init OpenAL ~10 lines of code
            Play file ~ 10 lines of code
            vector processing classes ~ 500 lines of code

            Now the AI, Physics, TBN, inverses, occlusion, quaternion rotations, that’s where shit hits the fan…

        • djgandy
        • 7 years ago

        OpenGL is an abomination. The API is cluttered and confusing due to not dropping all legacy feature support and making it mandatory. DX10 thankfully cleaned up the DX API and gave developers one way to do things, rather than 50.

        If OpenGL meant GL 4.0+ core with no legacy then it wouldn’t be a bad API.

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          The API was a lot cleaner in pre OpenGL 2.0 era, and now, when you can use core OpenGL 3.0 or any other more modern profile, it’s equally clean/complex as DirectX.

          OpenGL 1.x is perfect for simple things or learning, yet has all the power if needed through extensions.

          OpenGL 3.x+ is equally overblown and complex as DirectX, and also has all the power, plus some more.

            • djgandy
            • 7 years ago

            Pre 2.0? You mean the wonderful world of this???
            [url<]http://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man/xhtml/glColor.xml[/url<] glColor{1234}{bsuifd} glVertex{1234}{bsuifd} glVertex{1234}{bsuifd} Oh and don't forget the pointer based 'v' vector ending versions 🙂 Then vertex pointers, colour pointers, etc... Then add buffer objects Then add fixed function, ARB, GLSL Then allow all the above to interact Try writing a driver for that. Sure OpenGL has the features required of a graphics API, however political decisions have not allowed it to compete with DX, hence why it is just a DX clone for now. At 3.0 they should have removed all the legacy features, end of. No compatibility/core crap, if you want to use stupid old API's write your app in <= 2.1. If you want to use new features, use 3.0 onwards. You see, game developers are left with the problem. How do they target the most users? How do you do that when 3 different drivers target 3 different compatibility/core profiles, not to mention extensions? DX solved that problem.

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            This is the cost of compatibility, you can’t write a C++ library then port it over to ARM. Linkage has to remain undecorated.

            If that’s what you want, write a C++ wrapper for the functions, takes 5 minutes to auto-generate with a script. Now try to port DirectX COM to PS3.

            And the actual implementation is super simple once you skip past the details.

            glVertex{1234}{bsuif} calls glVertex4d(x, y = 1.0, z = 1.0, w = 1.0)

            Implicit conversion, default parameters, simple as that.

            Now you’re left with color, normal, texture and vertex versions, which are also as straightforward.

            Compare that to COM initialization and gotchas on DirectX side of that generation.

            OpenGL was BY FAR cleaner and easier to use API. You just have to figure out what exactly you want to target and use the 4 or so base functions.

            In all modern code that will be glAttribArray (or something), and that’s it.

            In all ancient code that will be glVertexArray + glNormalArray + glTextureCoordArray.

            • djgandy
            • 7 years ago

            You can’t write a C++ library and port it over to ARM? What does that even mean, and have to do with anything? GL is not an implementation either, it is a specification.

            You have totally missed the point of legacy interactions and removing fixed function and also the fact that its pot luck as to what what subset of GL any given machine will have thanks to not removing all the old crap when new features replaced old.

            Imagine if DX10 still allowed to to use all the DX5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 api features, supporting all the different shader model versions in one single context, supporting all the old fixed function crap that can be implemented in user shader objects. What a mess it would be.

            GLES solves this problem, desktop GL hasn’t though. GLES has fewer features but it also removed the old useless rubbish.

            Great GL can be supported on any OS/Arch (As can DX actually if you want to implement it, see WINE) , now remind me how many decent desktop GL implementations for hardware there are outside of Nvidia/ATI and windows?

            Maybe Apple can save GL by forcing everyone on their OS to use core profile features and drop all the crap as if it was never there.

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            No, because DirectX lives inside object files. All the IUnknowns and QueryInterfaces, even then it’s simplified because you’re talking windows on a single machine on single DLL boundary. For true COM you would have BStrings, Variants, Variant arrays and the performance would take a nosedive.

            If you use bleeding edge features, yes, but they are extensions for a reason, you want something extra, you have to handle that. Core stuff has always been defined for each of the versions.

            In the worst case, use OpenGL ES as a baseline, it’s fully compatible with OpenGL of some version. The fact that you can find some old functions doesn’t force you to use them.

            WINE is emulating DirectX, so it’s not a solution. How many DirectX hardware implementations exist? Actually, OpenGL was widely supported by Matrox and SGI, IIRC. Then you have MesaGL. It’s just that modern hardware is too complex to make, both for DirectX or OpenGL, heck, APIs are only wrappers to hardware and drivers.

            It is dropped, choose OpenGL 3.x+ profile without compatibility bits, and you can write OpenGL 3.x+ code.

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            And, even though DirectX 11 might be easier than OpenGL now. My point still stands, world would be a better place with no DirectX.

            Every friggin’ game would be straightforward to launch on Mac/Nix/Win/PS3/Xbox/Android. More market players, more API improvement, more driver work from hardware vendors. A massive Win for everyone aside Microsoft.

            Instead we have platform locked DirectX, poor porting ability, and situation where you can’t just use something else than PC/Win, because otherwise no 3D apps will work.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            what about the fact THAT THE MARKET IS NEVER WRONG. IF OPENGL WAS BETTER, IT WOULD HAVE WON. IT’S CALLED CAPITALISM, YOU COMMIE. LOOK IT UP.

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            I know, right, that’s why we didn’t had the real estate bubble and stuff, because market knows everything.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            that’s all the governments fault. if they didn’t regulate the industry, then it would have run perfectly. Don’t you know anything?

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            That’s a contradiction, isn’t it?

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            no. it’s just wrong.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgBODMioLo&feature=related[/url<] [url<]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KONpt9a6HrI[/url<] The real estate bubble was government created, and SSK's comment is pure irony because he is a communist. [quote<]The connection between the GSEs and the government helps isolate the GSE management from market discipline. This isolation from market discipline is the root cause of the recent reports of mismanagement occurring at Fannie and Freddie. After all, if Fannie and Freddie were not underwritten by the federal government, investors would demand Fannie and Freddie provide assurance that they follow accepted management and accounting practices. Ironically, by transferring the risk of a widespread mortgage default, the government increases the likelihood of a painful crash in the housing market. This is because the special privileges granted to Fannie and Freddie have distorted the housing market by allowing them to attract capital they could not attract under pure market conditions. As a result, capital is diverted from its most productive use into housing. This reduces the efficacy of the entire market and thus reduces the standard of living of all Americans. Despite the long-term damage to the economy inflicted by the government's interference in the housing market, the government's policy of diverting capital to other uses creates a short-term boom in housing. Like all artificially-created bubbles, the boom in housing prices cannot last forever. When housing prices fall, homeowners will experience difficulty as their equity is wiped out. Furthermore, the holders of the mortgage debt will also have a loss. These losses will be greater than they would have otherwise been had government policy not actively encouraged over-investment in housing. [/quote<]

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<] YES, BUT WHAT A HANDSOME COMMUNIST HE IS!!! [/quote<] that's from all the hot babes in the world.

            • End User
            • 7 years ago

            Have you heard of Android and iOS? OpenGL is on millions of devices.

            Face it, facts are not your strong point.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            you’re right, the market is shifting, and i don’t disagree there. obviously, and it was used on the wii and ps3.

            also, i was clearly being sarcastic. i’d WAY prefer opengl. I hear dx makes somethings like sound easier, as it covers more stuff, but i’m not a programmer, and so don’t really care. I would love to be able to play all my stuff anywhere.

            maybe understanding sarcasm isn’t your strong point. that and hygiene.

            • Washer
            • 7 years ago

            I just took a moment to reflect on your trolling skills. Sometimes I think you are under appreciated.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            awwww thanks washer 🙂

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          Moreover, I don’t see how you can do one thing in 50 ways in OpenGL.

          Want simple, glBegin/glEnd + display lists. Want complex, glArrays +/- VBO/VAOs. Not really more than 2 ways. Unless you assume interleaved/non-interleaved arrays are a whole new level of complexity, and not just two functions to process the same data in different representations.

          Registry combiners vs Shaders? Ok, if you had to support them together during FX5800 era, it was unclean, but then again, DirectX had the same problem back then, and there was a Cg compiler which worked very well. And nowadays, you just target a OpenGL x.x base with a common supported GLSL level. Simple as that.

          Just like targeting DirectX 9 or DirectX 10.

        • yuhong
        • 7 years ago

        Well, DirectX started with *DirectDraw*. DIrect3D did not come until later.

        • Pettytheft
        • 7 years ago

        YOu are so wrong about openGL it’s not even funny. It suffered the same way RealPlayer and Netscape did. They had the clear market share then they stagnated and let Microsoft overtake them in features and capability. People used to laugh and IE, and DirectX then they matched the capabilities of their competitors, then they became better to use.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 7 years ago

      Really? You just described how MS improved a STANDARD (DX) for games, but totally ignore how they have completely destroyed the standard for their GUI, and removed ton’s of features from the OS since XP.

      [url<]http://news.techeye.net/software/software-gui-design-going-to-hell-in-a-basket[/url<] [url<]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access[/url<] [url<]http://www.theoligarch.com/microsoft_vs_apple_history.htm[/url<] [url<]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_features_removed_in_Windows_Vista[/url<] -Don't forget hardware accelerated Directsound. [url<]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_7[/url<] None of us have forgotten what MS has done, and that's precisely why we're pissed off. At least LibreOffice sticks to the CUA GUI standards, and linux has a CUA like gui via KDE. If losing customers is what it takes to get MS back on track, so be it. There is no sympathy here. With Metro, MS has pulled the equivalent of completely dropping DX for some random new alternative with no backwards compatibility. so don't act surprised people don't like it.

        • djgandy
        • 7 years ago

        People used to get around on horse and car too. What’s your point? IBM invented guidelines 25 years ago, are you saying we should adopt those guidelines forever more? What you cite was a solution to a web of keyboard short cuts, not easy to understand visual menus.

        Times change and over time the successful solutions will win, IBM’s solution was successful, but personally I think old school menus are dead outside of hardcore business applications that will cause uproar if they change. They are awkward and slow to use, and make poor use of screen space and modern screen technology.

        Also it is allowed to remove features, what is wrong with that?

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 7 years ago

          The problem is that MS created a standard and efficient GUI model then completely broke it without considering how older users would feel about the changes, and unlike Windows, there is alternative software available.

            • djgandy
            • 7 years ago

            Old people hate change, I think you must just be old. Change has happened since forever, and we seem to do a pretty good job at improving.

            It is really not that hard to re-learn menus. But hey of course people will complain, just like people complain there are no jobs when the actual problem is that they have no useful skills and haven’t re-trained.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            There are standards for a reason. Office had the same basic look up until ribbon, and now it’s Metro. Eventually MS will change it’s GUI so much that current Ribbon users will understand what everyone else is complaining about. It’s nothing to do with being old, it’s you being a trendy moron. Trendy morons eventually end up buying Apple products.

            If Apple produced an Office suite, Microsoft would implode or revert back to being efficient out of necessity. Otherwise we end up with Microsoft doing whatever they feel like because there is no market force telling them to stop.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            apple DID produce an office suit. and MS destroyed it, like they destroyed everyone else. they quit because even on macs, MS office was just that much better that they couldn’t compete.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            How long ago was that? Apple was nothing until recently, and now MS is so scared they changed the GUI on their latest OS, which will only further the problem. Apple could easily cut into Microsoft’s pie now by adding windows emulation and their own Office.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            well, if you count 2001 recently, then yes. that was when they launched the ipod, and became the deserved masters of the world. I don’t think changing to a more dynamic GUI is going to further the problem, and if it does, then they’ll switch back. Maybe MS is over, and it’s time for an apple/linux world. finally unix would achieve the dominance people have wished for for so long. Who cares? you use linux anyway, why you get so mad about windows? isn’t it better for the market to decide, and let the weak die?

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            The ipod didn’t instantly make Apple, it started off a chain reaction. Also, I don’t use linux. I use windows and occasionally play with linux. The command line is kryptonite to me, so I avoid any serious configuring like the plague. My dad is the real linux enthusiast, and he helps me out with anything I don’t get.
            [quote<]let the weak die?[/quote<] Microsoft isn't weak. They've just been infiltrated by idiots and yes men. [quote<]Maybe MS is over, and it's time for an apple/linux world.[/quote<] It's whatever to whomever as long as somebody uses it, but it does appear that Apple is encroaching on MS territory. Windows compatibility would seal it, and would be the perfect feature to parallel with windows 8.

            • Ringofett
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]Eventually MS will change it's GUI so much that current Ribbon users will understand what everyone else is complaining about.[/quote<] Make it sound like ribbon fans never used prior Office versions. I have, since Office 95, and after a short breaking-in period, the whole thing feels like a whole level above Office 2003. Is sticking to "standards" why Libre Office feels like its from the 90s? Nobody that actually uses Office for work should care about GUI standards, as long as its an ergonomic improvement over what came before. Microsoft research said the ribbon was, and I and many others agree. Haven't played with this new Metro-based layout, but if its an improvement, then I won't resist it. Standards compliance on output files is good, but GUI standards? C'mon, going on about that just sounds like some Soviet Union central planning committee trying to create an office GUI for the masses.

        • TakinYourPoints
        • 7 years ago

        Don’t forget Microsoft throwing the PC under the bus at the expense of the XBox. Shutting down their PC game developers (Ensemble, FASA, Aces) or switching them over to exclusively 360 development, just terrible.

        Thankfully we have Valve and Blizzard keeping the PC relevant. The thing is that they also develop for the Mac, and Valve just announced a client for Ubuntu (!!!)

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          blizzard? i lol’d at that one. blizzard is console again. diablo 3 is coming to consoles, and i’m sure that titan, the new mmo from them, will have console support. that last point is speculation, but with activision in charge, i’m sure it’ll be there.

            • Beelzebubba9
            • 7 years ago

            When’s the last time Blizzard released a game on a console?

            (honest question!)

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            snes. lost vikings 2 is the last one i OWN from them.

      • Meadows
      • 7 years ago

      duken nuken?

      • ew
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]it´s[/quote<] You wrote that in MS Word didn't you?

      • BobbinThreadbare
      • 7 years ago

      Microsoft is a publicly traded company, it’s only goal is to make a profit.

      Anyone that has any affection for such an organization is a fool.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        +1

      • albundy
      • 7 years ago

      man, i miss those dos days. back then, you needed a basic amount of skill to run games and build systems. rarely was anything effortless.

    • Arclight
    • 7 years ago

    Gonna skip this one i think. The only reason i might reconsider is if in time i discover it has a critical new feature that i really need.

    @GUI
    It seems acceptable to me, but ofc many do prefer the minimalist look.

    • moose17145
    • 7 years ago

    meh… have been using OpenOffice for quite a while now.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      I would guess starting from Office Ribbon or something 🙂

        • moose17145
        • 7 years ago

        how’d you guess? lol

    • MadManOriginal
    • 7 years ago

    This is making me want to buy a copy of Office 2010 even though I haven’t had a personal copy of Office since college days.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      Or, better yet, [url<]http://www.libreoffice.org/download/[/url<]

      • Rand
      • 7 years ago

      Now that would be a devious strategy. Make Office 2013 so bad that non-Office users rush out to buy 2010 now just in case they ever need to use Office.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      i have (maybe????) legit copies of 2010, and i like the new one BECAUSE I’M A RABID MS FANBOY WHO’S TOTALLY IRRATIONAL.

      plus i use skydrive, and like the way metro looks.

    • not@home
    • 7 years ago

    The install did not work well with Avast. Gave me a blue screen. First blue screen I have ever seen in Win 7.

    • l33t-g4m3r
    • 7 years ago

    I’m done with MS Office. LibreOffice here. Just waiting until linux offers a decent destop distro, and Windows will be done too.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      we’re all waiting for something that will never happen. i’m waiting for the power granted from a yellow sun. so far, nothing. I understand where you’re coming from.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        Solar power is possible, but expensive, so you actually picked an analogy that supports my ideas more than yours.

        OSX is a usable unix based OS, so it’s not like there isn’t precedent. You’re attitude is radically out of touch with reality, as all it would take for linux to become mainstream is:

        *Self destruction of Microsoft and users looking for a change. – Already happening via Windows 8.
        *Gaming. – Already happening through Valve and Carmack has kept linux relevant through the years.
        *A distro designed for the average Joe. – This needs work, but is totally possible. Merge Mandriva and Ubuntu and it might happen.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          obviously i was talking about the powers of superman, but well played.

          windows 8 isn’t released, you have no idea how people will like it

          linux is not relevant in gaming. it’s why i left. steam might change that, but right now, it’s not.

          i agree that the last point is technically possible, but i don’t see it happening. too many politics.

          i like linux. i do, i’ve ran it for years, all kinds of distro’s. i just don’t believe, that its time has come. nor do i believe it’s superior. it’s [i<] different [/i<] but i don't think it's inherently better. some stuff is, but some stuff isn't. Plus, i like giving you a hard time, cause you ALWAYS bite, and you say crazy things. IT'S WHY I ♥ U

            • Meadows
            • 7 years ago

            Oh sweatshopking, you’re amazing.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

          • superjawes
          • 7 years ago

          [quote<]Solar power is possible[/quote<] Actually, not really, and I'm saying that as an electrical engineer. Even though there is a LOT of power available from the sun, it's only avaiable during daytime, and basically EVERYTHING degrades efficiency. Clouds, latitude, time of day...and that's before you talk about the efficiency of PV cells or solar collection mirrors...and that's before you favor in the cost. So you're paying more for less power. Yay... And like I said, daytime only, which means you either need a good way to store that energy, or you have to fall back on something dependable like coal. (OH, that's JUST like Windows and games XD). I agree that the OS landcape is changing, and other platforms are getting more love, but I think anyone saying that Microsoft is "self-destructing" are way off base. Once Windows 8 has runs its course, I imagine that the PC/general computing landscape will have changed enough so that even the most vocal doomsayers will acknowledge that Microsoft made a calculated decision with Windows 8.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            you’re right, but it’s possible. the reality is that energy might need to be more expensive for a while. c’est la vie. germany hit 50% of it’s power from solar. yes it costs billions of taxes, but it’s possible, even if it’s expensive. it might just need to be more expensive for a while. and we shouldn’t forget that other dirty industries are subsidized as well. none of the resources reflect the true value.

            • superjawes
            • 7 years ago

            Well as you pointed out, Germany is 50%…which is very good, but it is not likely to get better than that because of night time. And yes, it can be expensive but feasible during daylight hours, but getting completely away from fossil fuels is going to take a lot more than just solar, and is even more complicated than switching to alternative energy sources.

            But that’s a little too tangential for this thread.

            As a comparison to operating systems, I do think the analogy works, but not as l33t-g4m3r wants it to. Solar will always be an alternative option, but never a primary one.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            we can agree upon this

            ♥♥♥♥

            • cphite
            • 7 years ago

            Um, not to nit-pick but what Germany actually managed to do was generate 50% of it’s power via solar [b<]for a couple of hours at midday.[/b<] Impressive? Absolutely. But if you look at the overall power generation of Germany - that is, when you include nights, cloudy days, etc - solar makes up barely 4% of their power generation. Which is still rather impressive, all things considered. It's just not nearly as impressive as the 50% that gets thrown around. So yes... unless there are some major improvements, solar power - much like Linux - will be an alternative option, but not a primary one 😉

            • superjawes
            • 7 years ago

            It’s what I get for not checking SSK’s claim. CURSE YOU, SSK!! (j/k, we can still be friends)

            I also checked “Solar power in Germany” on Wikipedia, and they have it estimated at 3%, and it might reach 25% by 2050… o_o

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            Sorry, I thought the fact that it was only a few hours was well known. I’m aware of of the details, sorry if it confused anybody

      • DeadOfKnight
      • 7 years ago

      You won’t be much of a l33t g4m3r without windows unless a whole lot more than that changes.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        You obviously didn’t read my second post.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      As impossible as that sounds, I’m noticing a trend where people switch to LibreOffice.

      Some reasons is that it’s more portable than Office, some reasons are that’s it’s more available, shocked about this one, and some reasons are that it’s free. And some reasons are the missing ribbon.

      But yea, on new PCs, LibreOffice is what it is.

      Concerning Linux distro, try Mint, it’s amazing and works from live DVD before you install, with some performance impact in this mode.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        Yup, LibreOffice works really well and looks like old skool MS Office. Not only is it free, but you don’t have all the bloat included in MS’s newer versions, including problems associated with activation or corrupt installs. I’ve seen some bad Office installs try to reinstall some random component every time you run word. Solution? LibreOffice. Solves any and all problems associated with Microsoft. Goodbye Clippy/Ribbon/bloat/Metro/issues/cost.

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          It also seems that they somehow shaked off the bad karma when moving from OpenOffice to LibreOffice. LibreOffice seems to be what cool kids use, OpenOffice never felt this way.

            • l33t-g4m3r
            • 7 years ago

            Maybe, but OpenOffice was easier to pronounce.

            • Flatland_Spider
            • 7 years ago

            OpenOffice has/had a lot of problems. Sun kept a tight grip on commit bits, and that created a lot of ill-will in the community. Sun also stuck to a slow releases schedule. It was in their best interest to have a quick release schedule in order to get close to reaching feature parity with MS Office, but that’s not what they chose to do.

            Then there were the pieces of OOo that were written Java, which were slow, ate memory, and created a bad user experience. I can only blame Sun’s fascination with writing things in Java for this one. You would think that Sun would be the company that could write a good Java application for the desktop, but they couldn’t which proved the Java haters correct about desktop Java applications. The Java code is getting replaced by C code in LibreOffice.

            • Madman
            • 7 years ago

            Yea, Java bit made me cringe all the time. And seems that it’s gone as of now.

            Although UNO seems to be Java enabled.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      At least five years ago it was known that MS would loose its dominant position.
      I don’t know on which assumptions that was based.
      In general I think it had to do with the improvement of hardware, which made it less necessary to tweak programs that much that they would run reasonably fast on the computer.
      It might also have had to do with the increased internet connection speed, which made it possible to do things online on servers stationed hundreds of miles away, on which all kinds of programs and OS’s could run, and for which you only needed your browser to put in information, and to get the result out of it.
      I think it might also have to do with the fact that patents only hold for a while, and once they don’t apply anymore, anybody can start to copy.
      It could also have been inspired by the growing strength of mobile phones (which became smartphones), which actually don’t need Windows, because all in all, a phone is not a pc (but that’s actually my first aggument).

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        Odd that I got a -1 for the above text. It looks as if some people just don’t want certain things to be said.

      • ew
      • 7 years ago

      Well, Valve is officially porting Steam to Ubuntu 12.04[1] and it is pretty decent now so you shouldn’t have to wait long. 2013 will be the year of the Linux desktop!!!

      [1] [url<]http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/linux/steamd-penguins/[/url<]

        • glynor
        • 7 years ago

        Just because Steam itself is ported, doesn’t mean that most of the games will work.

        Don’t expect any of the AAA DirectX based games to make their way to Linux any time soon.

      • sschaem
      • 7 years ago

      The fact the Chrome and its app store (offline) works on Linux is a step forward in this respect.

      MS must be in total panic mode, that would explain all the erratic move they are making.

      • ronch
      • 7 years ago

      Exact opposite here. I’m done with LibreOffice. It may be free, but I’ve had enough of its freakin’ bugs. It’s not worth $0.00. Going back to MS Office. Never had problems with it.

      We’ll be here when you come back.

    • lilbuddhaman
    • 7 years ago

    Still hate the ribbon, bring on the minuses.

    In that 3 (4?) bars worth of space I could have *every* toolbar I’d ever use out and ready to go, even with nice little spacers and labels for what each category is.

    Just look at the “styles” box…what is that, a 128×64 area for a whopping THREE buttons?

    With comments like [quote<] I have gone from loathing the Ribbon to actually liking it [u<] sometimes [/u<]. [/quote<] I really wonder about people.

      • RenatoPassos
      • 7 years ago

      Upvoted for the “bring on the minuses”.

      😀

      • moose17145
      • 7 years ago

      completely agree. The ribbon and splash screens or whatever was a terrible idea. I want my old File, Edit, etc. buttons back. Is it considered a old technology… yes… but so is the steering wheel. Just because something is new and shiney does not mean it works better and helps you get stuff done any better. Hence why I only use OpenOffice now. Inside MS Office I just spend 90% of my time just trying to find where they hid crap inside their garbage GUI.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        [url<]http://news.techeye.net/software/software-gui-design-going-to-hell-in-a-basket[/url<] [url<]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Common_User_Access[/url<] [url<]http://www.theoligarch.com/microsoft_vs_apple_history.htm[/url<]

          • moose17145
          • 7 years ago

          thank you for those links. I am only 26 and those were actually very educational for me. saddens me to see the standard UI that everyone came to understand and know how to use to just go to hell in a hand basket… especially considering the work it took to put those standards in place…

          I had this huge long thing written up about how MS is just totally screwing up the GUI and blah blah blah… windows 8 is a POS and i hate the ribbon / splash screens / tiles / blah blah blah… like two pages of just rage…….. I used my CUA standards of ctrl + A and hit delete because it’s the same crap that a hundred others have all said before me… never the less it felt good to rage about it even though no one will ever be able to read it now…

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          i love this quote from your third link:
          [quote<] Unlike Apple who were able to create a brand new GUI based operating system, Microsoft have maintained backward compatibility which makes their products more complex. In fact many people think fixing the windows experience is an impossible task and we need a brand new OS. [/quote<] kind of like winrt? amirite? something new, not confusing, and secure. those are the reasons that he says he recommends mac's these days, so you'd think metro is exactly what he's after! as he says [quote<] The 21st Century tech industry will belong to the designers not the geeks. [/quote<]

      • DeadOfKnight
      • 7 years ago

      Yeah but the 2010 ribbon is a whole lot better than the 2007 ribbon, enough that I could finally switch over. Maybe the same thing will happen with Windows 9 and the next Office.

      • ludi
      • 7 years ago

      Office user since buying 97 Pro (with a bundled WinNT4 CD, natch) on academic discount. Frankly, the menu system from Office 95 through ’03 was a bodge of a kludge of options that still mimicked or carried over much of the underlying hierarchy in Microsoft Works for DOS, but gradually expanded like the root system of an aspen grove, with new options popping up hear and there and crowding in wherever they somewhere, somehow, seemed to “fit”.

      [i<]Nobody[/i<] liked that menu system, and we mocked it derisively back in the day. The reason those same people complained even more about the Ribbon was not the ribbon structure, which is orders of magnitude more logical and accessible, but the fact that after years of playing treasure hunt with the old menu system, they had finally figured out where the pots of gold were all hidden and didn't like having the clues re-written and taped into new hiding places. People born and raised on '07 and up who ever stumble across a copy of '03 or earlier will stare blankly at the menu system as though it were written entirely in some sort of medieval Russian cipher. Which, for all practical purposes, it pretty much is.

        • Chrispy_
        • 7 years ago

        Rather than a menu being a [b<]vertical column[/b<] of options with sub-options the ribbon is a [b<]horizontal row[/b<] of options with sub-options; There's little fundamental difference between the two, other than the orientation and the fact that the ribbon adds pictures to many of the options. What people hate about the ribbon is that it totally replaces the toolbars [i<]and[/i<] menu, whilst functionally, the ribbon replaced the menu [i<]only[/i<]. Pre-ribbon was great because you only dug into the menus when you didn't have an icon on a toolbar already. You could customise which functions you wanted on toolbars (almost) without limitation and you could put them almost anywhere on screen you wanted. By contrast, the ribbon takes up as much space as all the common toolbars simultaneously, whilst only giving you one-click access to a fraction of the functions. The Quick Access Toolbar is a token gesture, turning a whole top-level menu into an icon, still requiring at least two clicks instead of one. <rant> For productivity reasons, microsoft's interface team is going the wrong way - start menus, Metro, Ribbon; They're all aiming for more clicks, lower efficiency per click, and more mouse-travel between clicks. Think about it - the only justification for this is to make inaccurate touchscreen interfaces more viable; Yet another case of touchscreen interface choices being pushed to the desktop where they don't belong in order to satisfy Microsoft's not-so-hidden mobile-future agenda. I get that the world is trending towards mobile devices and the desktop as we know it is dying, but I don't want the reason for the desktop's death to be "because Microsoft sabotaged the experience". If they want us to use touchscreens everywhere, It shouldn't come at the expense of desktop productivity. </rant>

          • ludi
          • 7 years ago

          I don’t know what you use office for, but here in the power industry I mostly use it for generating Word reports with themes/styles and some basic tables, and Xcel spreadsheets to track and sort data logged by client monitoring equipment or from computer simulations of client systems. In both cases I spend 80% of my time in the “home” ribbon and another 15% pulling down familiar shortcuts from the right-click context menu.

          I wasn’t a fan of the ribbon when it launched but over time, I’ve gained a grudging appreciation of what it is trying to do. It’s not perfect, but it might be as close to perfect as someone can get when dealing with software that has as many options as Word. The old menu system was only one step removed from command line and intimidated the dickens out of all non-techies, which these days is the overwhelming majority of computer users. I still encounter users with pre-07 experience who never learned how to navigate it. They had pretty much been using Office with the shortcut bars only, and find the exact same spread of options they’re expecting within the “Home” ribbon.

          You can also minimize the ribbon if it’s really causing you space issues (it seems to be a non-issue for me), and you can customize the Quick Access toolbar to your heart’s content.

      • TakinYourPoints
      • 7 years ago

      The ribbon is the thing I dislike most about Windows 8. Adding it to Explorer pisses me off way more than Metro, and that’s saying a lot.

      • kamikaziechameleon
      • 7 years ago

      The ribbon wasn’t so bad, it just wasn’t good enough to warrant replacing the old interface.

      • superjawes
      • 7 years ago

      I think there are probably some easy ways to make it better (like collapsing when not in use and expanding on mouseover), but I like the ribbon because it organizes the tools. That is by far the best improvement that came with Office 2007.

    • riviera74
    • 7 years ago

    This seems so normal for Microsoft to do: try to justify an upgrade to Office even though most people would be satisfied (and are satisfied) with previous versions. A lot of us tend to forget that Windows and especially Office are the cash cows and profit centers for Redmond.

    I will stay with Office 2007 since I had to upgrade for school, then stayed with it. I have gone from loathing the Ribbon to actually liking it sometimes. When I get Win7 before the Win8 release and build my next desktop, I still have no need to upgrade to Office 2013 thank you very much.

    • Captain Ned
    • 7 years ago

    Hmm. my old copy of Office 97 seems to be a decent alternative now that everyone is chasing the touch-screen crowd. The lack of “subscriptions” is just another feature for the old ways.

    • [+Duracell-]
    • 7 years ago

    Played around with Outlook for a bit. It’s feels a bit sluggish, and there’s still no unified inbox like Thunderbird (and I don’t really want to use a work-around for one). Not sure how I can get my Facebook contacts to sync up with my Outlook contact list very easily, although they look fine in Hotmail and on my Windows phone.

    The sharing option in Word’s File menu/pane (not sure what that element is called) is really nice; I can save it to my SkyDrive, and then create a link to share it with other people (or send out an e-mail) without having to go into SkyDrive. The text cursor is really jarring, though. It’s too…smooth.

    The way the windows are drawn (I’m assuming GPU acceleration is in place here) makes the suite seem really choppy. You can definitely tell when you rapidly resize Outlook. The ribbon doesn’t seem to hide/show at the same smoothness the rest of the application seems to do (most noticeable in Word).

    Would like an option for a black background for the entire application suite instead of white. Or maybe pick up the Windows 8 Metro color theme you’re using if you’re using Windows 8.

      • Rand
      • 7 years ago

      Outlook seems like it’s very touch oriented to me, significantly moreso then any of the other Office applications.

    • Krogoth
    • 7 years ago

    Office 2013 = Office the Touch-screen edition.

    Then again the office suite genre hasn’t seen any significant changes since 1980s. Most of the changes since then has supporting new file formats and changing the GUI.

      • derFunkenstein
      • 7 years ago

      So many people are griping (Ars, MSNBC, et. al) about how poorly optimized it is for touch screens, that the statement that “Office 2013 = Office the Touch-screen edition” is laughably ignorant of reality.

        • Meadows
        • 7 years ago

        Since when does Krogoth read articles?

        • Krogoth
        • 7 years ago

        The UI is clearly suited for touchscreen interfaces which is the same direction that Windows 8 is heading towards. Remember, that this isn’t the final product.

        This is all Microsoft’s panic reaction to Apple’s and Google’s recent successes.

        IHMO, MS is trying too hard. Like I said, the office suite space hasn’t seen any significant improvements since 1980s.

          • End User
          • 7 years ago

          [quote<]The UI is clearly suited for touchscreen interfaces[/quote<] [url<]http://goo.gl/IB1lM[/url<]

            • Krogoth
            • 7 years ago

            #1 – Ars is a known haven for the anti-MS crowd

            #2 – I didn’t said anything about execution.

            • derFunkenstein
            • 7 years ago

            the word “suited” indicates that it’s executed well. It’s intended that way but it’s clearly not suited.

            • Krogoth
            • 7 years ago

            Playing the word game eh?

            I guess haters are going to hate.

            • End User
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]#1 - Ars is a known haven for the anti-MS crowd[/quote<] Head in sand you have.

            • Krogoth
            • 7 years ago

            I guess you missed the entire *nix wank-fest that has going on within their forums for years.

    • Parallax
    • 7 years ago

    Can Word save a pdf without horribly compressing the images yet? Can powerpoint save slides to images greater than 3000px wide? Has Word’s dictionary been updated to include words that have been in the english language for decades? Can Excel correctly handle Windows-7 style dragging?

    How about correcting some basic features like these before re-working the interface again.

    • UberGerbil
    • 7 years ago

    Question for anybody who has already done the install: what’s the disk space consumption you’re seeing? The system requirements say 3.5 GB, but it’s unclear if that’s maximum, typical, or minimum.

      • oldog
      • 7 years ago

      SpaceMonger says my install is 2,285,973,504 bytes.

    • Rand
    • 7 years ago

    Not liking the no visual screen borders on Office 2013, I find myself having to slow my mouse movement down and carefully place the cursor in order to resize the window. It’s quite awkward. i’m even finding I have to place the cursor cautiously just to minimize windows.

    I don’t like how much more screen real estate is taken up by the ribbon either, noticeably less workspace available. It’s needless as well, theirs a lot of wasted white space.

    I will say this much, for better or worse they’ve really replicated Metro in the desktop very well. It feels just like you’re working in a Metro application. Doesn’t work or feel like the desktop at all.

      • [+Duracell-]
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]I don't like how much more screen real estate is taken up by the ribbon either, noticeably less workspace available. It's needless as well, theirs a lot of wasted white space.[/quote<] You can hide/show the Ribbon by double-clicking on the headers or pressing Ctrl+F1. It seems to work across all of the Office apps, too.

        • Rand
        • 7 years ago

        Even elements aside from the ribbon have increased in size though, with Outlook/OneNote it’s particularly evident.
        Outlook looks the developers feel like no one will ever be using it with a mouse.

    • jstern
    • 7 years ago

    Can’t say I like the new Metro style, but do like how smooth the typing looks, and the scrolling through pages on Read Mode. Really hate the color scheme, and can’t seem to find a way to change it. Hope the final product is better than this.

    • McRuff
    • 7 years ago

    Metro style is well named. Hopefully for Windows 9 and Office 16 Microsoft goes back to the Hetero Style of Windows 7 and Office 2010

      • Grigory
      • 7 years ago

      Haha, awesome! 😀 Window 9 Hetero! Loving it!

      • Vaughn
      • 7 years ago

      Win!

      • Meadows
      • 7 years ago

      As if the two were opposites.

    • yogibbear
    • 7 years ago

    I’m going to start wearing heavily tinted glasses while working at my PC if this gets rolled out at my work…

    There is a a reason why autocad defaults to a black background, and other programs use blue/green backgrounds.

      • swiffer
      • 7 years ago

      I agree. I’ve calibrated my displays to 100 nits brightness, and run flux for when I’m editing late into the evenings. White backgrounds in productivity software combined with “brightness-above-all-else” monitors makes for unhappy eyes.

    • ludi
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<]Staple apps like Word, Excel, and PowerPoint have gotten a fresh coat of paint to fit in with the new Metro style, and they now support touch and stylus input.[/quote<] More like a fresh coat of bleach. Any chance Office 2013 will include an Accessibility Control that restores color?

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      That’s odd, because on MSNBC.com they said that O2013 lacked touch support, although they agreed that it looked more like Metro.
      While reading that, my idea was that it prooved that MS doesn’t see smartphones or tablets as productive devices.

        • Rand
        • 7 years ago

        Office 2013 has a touch specific mode that you can enable, and without it their not bad with touch. I’d argue Outlook and OneNote in their stock state are designed primarily for use with touch much moreso then a mouse.

    • Rand
    • 7 years ago

    System requirements specifically note that XP/Vista aren’t supported. Surprised by that, I know they want to push people Win8 ASAP but killing off such a massive product as Office on still supported Windows variants is a big move.

      • sschaem
      • 7 years ago

      I’m guessing that if you have XP or Vista and need to run the new version of office

      40$ get you Windows8 upgrade
      100$ get you windows7 upgrade

      I can see knowledgeable people getting the windows7 upgrade, but I cant help but think that the majority will be suckered in getting Windows8.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        $0 will get you LibreOffice upgrade
        $0 will get you Linux Mint upgrade

        Yes, compared to OfficeRibbon and Windows 8 they are upgrades.

        Windows 8 is a downgrade from Windows 7, that’s why it’s so much cheaper.

        And ironically, Windows 8 missed only few basic things to become best Windows ever. Tried it, but I’m never booting to Windows 8 anymore.

          • MarioJP
          • 7 years ago

          i do like whats under the hood though but yeah the new interface is just strange. When i plugged in my USB drive. It said “tap to open” My desktop PC is not a tablet lol.

      • Vulk
      • 7 years ago

      XP doesn’t shock me. Vista does, especially since there’s no real technical limitation, and this seems to be a pure marketing move.

        • yuhong
        • 7 years ago

        Yea, AFAIK there are even software (Photoshop CS6 for example) where the vendor drops official support for Vista while keeping XP officially supported. In most cases there is nothing stopping the software from running on Vista, but the vendor most likely don’t want the additional support costs.

      • UberGerbil
      • 7 years ago

      Vista and XP are rapidly becoming [url=http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/help/end-support?SignedIn=1<]EOL[/url<]'d. Office is not going to want to support an application on an OS that itself isn't supported. They have to start pruning their legacy platform QA and bugfix resources at some point. It's quite possible it will install (or can be easily tweaked/tricked into installing) but you're on your own if anything goes wrong.

        • Rand
        • 7 years ago

        Vista SP2 doesn’t reach EOL until mid 2017, that’s 5 years of support left. Office 2013 will have been replaced by Office 2015 or whatever by the time it’s EOL so I don’t think supporting a dead OS is a real concern with Vista.

        No arguments that they have to start pruning support for legacy platforms eventually but I disagree that you need to do it 5 years before that date.

          • UberGerbil
          • 7 years ago

          I agree that the support timeframe wouldn’t be a consideration for Vista, but given that MS clearly wishes Vista never happened (and 7 runs on the same hardware) I’m not surprised. If MS had just bit the bullet and offered free upgrades to 7 for Vista customers like they should have, it wouldn’t even be an issue.

            • oldog
            • 7 years ago

            My office PC runs Vista and Office 2010 on a 6 year old machine. With beefed up RAM and an SSD it works very well (Three huzzahs for the desktop computer).

            But, it is my office machine and I try not to change any software lest the thing crap out altogether. I really don’t want to have to upgrade. I personally cannot imagine why anyone would want to upgrade to a new version of Office on Vista.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 7 years ago

        That page is very FUD-ish. With the latest service packs both XP and Vista are still supported.

          • Zkal
          • 7 years ago

          XP and Vista are only supported with security updates at this point. They are not in the support phase where they get new features and applications from MS.

            • Rand
            • 7 years ago

            Judging by gadgets Windows 7 is in the support phase where they remove features.

      • Krogoth
      • 7 years ago

      Office 13 can work with Vista, since it shares the same codebase as 7 and 8. (NT 6.x, children of Longhorn). There’s no technical reason.

      You probably have to trick the installer or do a few registry tweaks to get Office 13 working under Vista though.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        if(os_ver < win7) goto ms_store;

    • Rand
    • 7 years ago

    OneNote looks atrocious.
    Apparently we won’t be able to escape Metro even on Windows 7 now if we plan to use Office.

    We better be able to disable the save to Skydrive by default, I don’t particularly want to have to navigate to my preferred save location every single time.

      • QuickSilverD
      • 7 years ago

      Well it is not like you “have” to upgrade.

      I still haven’t since Office 2003 😛

        • Rand
        • 7 years ago

        I dropped 2003 the second Office 2007 came out, I’m one of those people that LOVED the ribbon.

          • mcnabney
          • 7 years ago

          No widescreen monitor, I assume?

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            I have widescreen, and like the ribbon. There was a million things I didn’t know I could do before I started using the ribbon

          • Sargent Duck
          • 7 years ago

          Yep, same here. First time I used Office 2007 was like falling in love.

      • oldog
      • 7 years ago

      I personally don’t mind the new look but my scanned documents look much worse in OneNote.

      • [+Duracell-]
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]We better be able to disable the save to Skydrive by default, I don't particularly want to have to navigate to my preferred save location every single time.[/quote<] Dug around in the options a bit. In the Save options, you can both de-check "Always show 'Sign in to SkyDrive' location during Save" and check "Save to Computer by default" and "Don't Show the Backstage when saving or opening files". That'll get it to the same feel as previous versions.

    • chuckula
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<]According to Microsoft, documents are saved to SkyDrive by default,[/quote<] Wonderful! Now all we have to do is screw with Office's settings for every single @#%#@ install to make sure that our files *aren't* saved to somebody else's (likely compromised) server! Fortunately since MS is going to "touch enable" everything, it will be so stupidly hard to actually do anything with Office that you won't have to worry about losing your important data since you'll never be able to write it in the first place.

      • UberGerbil
      • 7 years ago

      There have been GPO admin templates for changing things like default save location for several versions now, and if you like / need to tweak Office extensively you’re probably using them already. Of course, if you’ve never had to do that before and this is the “feature” that forces you to start, I can understand the annoyance. If they get enough feedback about it (ie real feedback, not bitching on tech forums) they might make it a setup option. In fact, given that not everyone has a SkyDrive account (or it may not always be accessible), they must have a fallback even for the default.

      Presumably corporate customers will be saving to their own “cloud” anyway (or should be — nothing worse than a laptop going missing with important data saved locally).

      I actually kind of imagined they’d default to saving to a copy to SkyDrive [i<]in addition to[/i<] whatever local storage you chose, so that you'd get a kind of silent backup automatically.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        Laptops have to use full disk encryption. Via bitlocker or Linux dm-crypt.

        If they don’t, the data leak is more than deserved.

    • Bensam123
    • 7 years ago

    Still rocking Office 2003 with no plans to upgrade.

    …but IDK… I may want a monthly subscription to spruce things up.

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      I’m with you.

      We’ve been running 2007 or 2010 for ages now and in all these years, I fail to find any added features that justify tolerating the ribbon interface. In fact, if you could go back to the old menu bars of 2003, I’m [i<]still[/i<] sure I'd find no features worth upgrading for. We only upgrade because if we [i<]don't[/i<], we eventually run into so many version compatibility annoyances that you actually [i<]want[/i<] to upgrade; it's like a hostage [i<]wanting[/i<] to be shot because it's preferable to torture. Stupidest reason to upgrade ever, and probably the only reason why 500 million copies get sold every cycle.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        Maybe MS does need a subscription model, but not one that timelimits your usage, but updates. Charge $50 every couple of years for update access past the initial subscription period, but allow older editions to still function. Usage limits would only cause more users to drop. What MS needs to do is keep an unified codebase for all MS office versions, which means “older” versions are always up to date and compatible, and only distinguish new versions by additional features, which are purchasable through upgrades. Also, release new versions less frequently and charge more for “professional” full package editions.

        The way MS currently does things is just another reason to switch to LibreOffice.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 7 years ago

        I do like Office 2007 for the under-the-hood advancement that the .docx, .xlsx, etc. file formats bring. The files are universally smaller and they just LOOK better. Open an old-format .doc file in Word 2007 and it looks just like it did in 2003. Then save it as a .docx file and watch in amazement (seriously!) as the formatting… [i<]shifts[/i<] somehow. And it's an improvement.

    • sweatshopking
    • 7 years ago

    Super improved installer. in fact, this is crazy good.

      • Vulk
      • 7 years ago

      would you say it’s THE killer feature?

        • brucethemoose
        • 7 years ago

        It’s pretty dang important to me. When I’m in a time crunch, troublesome installs make we want to kill myself.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        I would guess no, but this also affects uninstaller. And neat uninstaller is THE WIN!

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