Report: Windows 8 won’t support booting to the desktop

Microsoft may be retiring Metro as a brand name, but the Metro interface will still be front and center in Windows 8—more so than you might expect. According to ZDNet, the release version of the operating system will neuter workarounds users had contrived to boot straight into the old desktop interface.

ZDNet says pre-release builds of the OS allowed users to create shortcuts to open the desktop interface. Those shortcuts could then be set to open automatically at boot time. However, the RTM build of the operating system—the one that will populate store shelves on October 26—reportedly disables that workaround.

The site also throws cold water on the possibility that a Group Policy settings might allow system admins to disable the Metro startup screen. "[Windows 8 Secrets co-author Rafael Rivera] told me he believes this also is blocked," writes ZDNet’s Mary Jo Foley.

That’s bad news for geeks, and it’s especially bad news for business users. Microsoft’s steadfast emphasis on Metro may leave businesses and corporations clutching to Windows 7 and hoping future Windows releases are a little less touch-happy. Of course, by then, Microsoft will probably offer a Metro version of its Office suite. Hmm.

Comments closed
    • moresmarterthanspock
    • 7 years ago

    Why is Microsoft doing this? Is it arrogance on their own part and they expect users to stay loyal? Businesses are one of their biggest focuses, unless they happen to release a business-centric specialized spin of Windows 8 a little bit later. I’m a big Linux user, and I got pissed and switched from Ubuntu to Linux Mint becuase of Mark Shuttleworth’s force-feed attitude. I’m a bit confused, as the people in charge at Microsoft are intelligent for sure, and I don’t think Microsoft would want to do something that would turn off a huge portion of their customer base.

    • FubbHead
    • 7 years ago

    I can’t believe forcing the metro interface on desktop users is a wise choice just yet. It probably needs a generation to mature, both on their part (going by the release preview they sure as h*ll haven’t nailed it yet) and for it to melt it among the users. So this time around, it really should be as easy as ticking a box saying “boot to desktop”. And yes, all those clicks just to get to the desktop ARE annoying.

    And regarding the start menu, or lack thereof, I’m sort of positive. My hope is that someone in the community will actually invent something better than just reiterating the start menu all over again, as we see now…

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      Thing is I like the Start Button very much. Mind you: the button, not the Start Menu, which is something different.
      Via the Start Button I can easily find programs and files, and on my desktop I put programs, files and links for things I want to have nearby or things I shouldn’t forget that they’re there; like jobs I have to do, but which I don’t have to do immediately.
      And the Start Menu has its uses too, especially to eliminate programs of which you notice they shouldn’t be loaded at the start of Windows.
      So, indeed, I can’t do without either of them.

    • Knee Dragger
    • 7 years ago

    10 PRINT KNEE DRAGGER RULES!
    20 GOTO 10

      • yogibbear
      • 7 years ago

      I assume you thought this was witty. Trust me, you weren’t.

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 7 years ago

    this isn’t bad news for geeks just for win 8. Who pushed win 7 to success? nerds! Who damned win vista? NERDS!

    • diesavagenation
    • 7 years ago
    • Deanjo
    • 7 years ago

    First developer that creates an applications that bypasses Metro and puts back a start button is gonna make a ton of money. They could pretty much sell it at the same price of the Win 8 upgrade and still people will buy it.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      classic shell? and it’s free?

    • Beelzebubba9
    • 7 years ago

    Does this mean Mac users can be even more smug than usual?

    (totally kidding, I’m actually kind of excited for Windows 8)

      • Saber Cherry
      • 7 years ago

      Why would a Mac user be excited about about the chance to pay lots of money for a dumbed-down product made by an evil megalomaniac, which actively decreases the productivity of any user that interacts with it? That seems unlikely to me!

    • derFunkenstein
    • 7 years ago

    As long as I can hit the Windows key on my keyboard and type the name of an app, I don’t think this will affect me too awful much. My desktop on my Windows 7 PC is clean other than the recycle bin. I’m just weird like that. I dare say, that in my one, single, anecdotal example that this might be an improvement over how it currently is.

      • RtFusion
      • 7 years ago

      Got to agree with you on that one. I try to keep my desktop on my laptops in my room and at work relatively empty as many of the programs that I do use are just pinned to the task bar.

      However, the desktop for my desktop computer is a different story with icons (mostly games) are layed out.

      No complaints from any setups in my view.

    • tanker27
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<]The site also throws cold water on the possibility that a Group Policy settings might allow system admins to disable the Metro startup screen. "[Windows 8 Secrets co-author Rafael Rivera] told me he believes this also is blocked," writes ZDNet's Mary Jo Foley.[/quote<] Well there goes corporate use. The more I read and play with 8 the more and more it looks and feels like a modern update to Bob.

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      I installed and tested W8 [b<]solely[/b<] from a corporate-use perspective. I started by listing things that I would need to find solutions to. I gave up on the list once it reached a ridiculous size and I still hadn't finished finding things that would make it a complete PITA for desktop office users. That assumes that I'd have the patience to retrain people how to do things under W8. I have no interest in W8 for myself as a home user. I still ran one XP machine right up until the point where 2GB of RAM per application started to cause problems. I enjoyed my six-second SSD cold boots. It also reminded me just how many questionable interface decisions microsoft made with Vista and 7. XP was not without it's own flaws but in making new features and improvements to an OS, microsoft feel it's their duty to break previously working parts of the OS.

        • tanker27
        • 7 years ago

        Yup, I agree. I have 8 installed on a corporate laptop and we have so many in house applications that just dont play well with 8. I feel that I am not alone with this as many other corporations will be in the same boat.

        There is going to be some concessions that will have to happen for corporations to adopt 8. And there [b<]will[/b<] be, I fully expect to see a 8SE or 8 Corporate edition come out. It will all boil down to money as the Corporate/ Volume licensing which is number 1 to Microsoft at almost 74 billion/in the last 9 quarters in revenue compared to their entertainment division that did 1.9 billion over the same time period. As someone eloquently said: [quote<]Ultimately, Microsoft doesn’t answer to consumers. It can’t. They aren’t who pays the bills. Microsoft’s principle customers — by a wide, wide margin — are corporations, enterprises, governments, schools, computer makers, and other big accounts that engage in high-volume licensing for Microsoft products. Everything else is just a nice side-dish for Microsoft — including its efforts to make products and services for everyday people.[/quote<]

    • puppetworx
    • 7 years ago

    Did Steve Jobs die and go to work for Microsoft?

    • Shouefref
    • 7 years ago

    Metro is made for touch.
    Touch is not good on a desktop.
    Metro is not suitable for a desktop.
    It probably won’t be the rise of the Linux, but it certainly won’t be the resurrection of Windows either.

      • mutarasector
      • 7 years ago

      If Apple wants to sue someone, they should sue Microsoft for violating their patent on UI “training wheels” for iDIOTS…

    • vexe
    • 7 years ago

    Consumer: Let me see the Desktop.
    Microsoft: [with a small wave of the hand] You don’t need to see the Desktop.
    Consumer: We don’t need to see the Desktop.
    Microsoft: These aren’t the features you’re looking for.
    Consumer: These aren’t the features we’re looking for.

      • Krogoth
      • 7 years ago

      /facepalm

      You still have access to the desktop.

      “OH NOES! IT REQUIRES ONE MORE STUPID MOUSE CLICK!”

      “M$, I SPIT AT THEE!”

        • nanoflower
        • 7 years ago

        You make it sound so easy but I’ve read other people that tried Win8 found that the Metro interface still keeps getting in the way if you try to stay on the desktop. Things like the Charms will pop up when you least want them to because the Metro interface is what MSFT expects you to be working with on a regular basis. That’s fine for a tablet or a smart phone but not so good for a desktop.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          what? why would the charms EVERY pop up? I’ve never had them pop up when i didn’t want them

        • vexe
        • 7 years ago

        True, it’s just a few clicks away…

        Luna added a few clicks to 2000
        Aero added a few clicks to Luna

        …and so on.

        • rrr
        • 7 years ago

        Yay for complicating user experience and decreasing productivity for no reason. MS is saying “Go **** yourself” to all their customers. Do you like paying to be said that? I do not.

      • danny e.
      • 7 years ago

      Apple has been doing this for years and apparently it works on their sheep. We’ll see if Microsoft users are the same.

        • rrr
        • 7 years ago

        Waiting for enraged sheep to downvote you for calling spade a spade.

        Upvoted in preparation for it.

    • Shouefref
    • 7 years ago

    It looks like the year of Vista: people didn’t like Vista, therefore wanted XP. But most of the time they were forced to buy XP AND Vista.
    MS has never made such huge sales as in that year.

      • vaultboy101
      • 7 years ago

      This thing will be worse than Vista. I am looking forward to Valve pushing forward with Ubuntu Linux as I would be more than happy to ditch Windows if the gaming situation improves on Ubuntu.

      MS have made it categorically clear that they hate and despise the desktop interface and are doing everything to push consumers to the touch optimized Metro UI.

      Sad really…

      • chrissodey
      • 7 years ago

      I can’t wait for PC makers to charge $100 to “downgrade” to Windows 7…….. (sarcasim)

    • Metonymy
    • 7 years ago

    This reminds me of early ’07 (I think) when Vista was released and for a couple of months MS stopped vendors like Dell from putting XP on machines. It didn’t last long and XP became reavailable for quite a while.

    I wonder (maybe I’ve just missed this) if MS is going to stop/pressure OEMs from continuing to offer 7.

    • moog
    • 7 years ago

    Is 200 words or less about a mouse click worthy of being titled a “Report”?

    This site is so depressing.

      • Anonymous Coward
      • 7 years ago

      What?!

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      Don’t be ridiculous. 1 mouse click is TOO MUCH.
      Don’t you see that?
      Don’t you see that it has always been the aim of computers to make things go faster, and that now they make it go slower and less comfortable?
      Don’t you see that Metra just isn’t suited for the desktop?
      Don’t you see that touch on desktop monitors is not a good idea?

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        And yet one mouse click is too much.

        • moog
        • 7 years ago

        No I don’t see. Win8 is faster and more functional.

      • Krogoth
      • 7 years ago

      I don’t understand the whole fuss either, unless you are suffering from a severe case of RSI.

    • DeadOfKnight
    • 7 years ago

    Meh, I don’t care one way or the other. I’m not buying Windows 8 and that’s that.

    • trackerben
    • 7 years ago

    What’s with all the downlove? A consumer can buy Win 7 now on good new or used hardware. From what I’ve heard, for $15 he can later download a Win 8 “upgrade” good for an install on any another machine. With these kinds of choices, how can the guy on the street not find what he wants at a reasonable price?

    I understand the UI lockdown could be an installed base issue going forward, particularly to big shops looking for traditional commonality and trouble-free migration. But there’s nothing in these concerns which can’t be addressed with some future service pack or enterprise hotfix. Once Microsoft figures they have enough critical mass of users trying out Metro they could see fit to enable some rollbacks. Perhaps this is a lot of faith in their people, but they couldn’t have gotten to a Win 8 if they had forgotten how to get their best teams behind controversial and risky decisions.

    • ronch
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<]Of course, by then, Microsoft will probably offer a Metro version of its Office suite. Hmm.[/quote<] I hope we all finally get to type using our LCD screens! Wouldn't that be awesome?! Now THAT'S INNOVATION, Ballmer! I'm [u<]utterly shocked[/u<] Apple didn't think of this earlier! Oh wait, it's because the idea sucks. Ok, enough sarcasm.

      • Phartindust
      • 7 years ago

      Actually they did, it’s called an iPad. And I don’t like them either. 🙂

      • ermo
      • 7 years ago

      Wasn’t there just an article on arstechnica which pointed out that MS is using their surface tablet — with its included keyboard and trackpad cover thing — to set the bar for Windows 8 hardware makers?

      [url=http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/08/is-surface-microsofts-confession-that-windows-8-isnt-really-cut-out-for-tablets/<]Is Surface Microsoft's confession that Windows 8 isn't really cut out for tablets?[/url<]

    • Cyco-Dude
    • 7 years ago

    why would they not just allow the customer to tailor the program to their needs, instead of a one-size-fits-some approach? surely they could do this…

      • ronch
      • 7 years ago

      Because M$ knows what you want/need more than you do.

        • internetsandman
        • 7 years ago

        No, MS saw Apple using the strategy but has no idea how to execute it on their own

          • NeelyCam
          • 7 years ago

          +1 This might be the best answer I have ever heard to the question “why the hell would they do this?”

          • entropy13
          • 7 years ago

          Because only those who have achieved true enlightenment can execute the Work and follow the Word in the Sacred Company’s teachings.

    • albundy
    • 7 years ago

    well, there’s always hope that the pirated versions will fare better. But then again, pirated versions have always been better.

    • chuckula
    • 7 years ago

    This is kind of the crap from Microsoft that I absolutely cannot freakin’ stand. It’s the philosophical mindset of “Gee, we’re really smart, in fact, we’re so much smarter than you are that we’ll make decisions that are outright stupid and when you complain we’ll just say you aren’t good enough to understand our genius.”

    Here’s a trivial case in point that exemplifies this attitude in with MS Office: Open up a word document in “track changes” mode. As part of editing the document, delete some text. Later on, you decide that the deleted text could be useful if you just copied & pasted it somewhere else in the document. So you highlight the text, press the right-click button and the context menu clearly shows “copy” as an option. You click “copy”…. and a @#_I&*%$ pop-up window shows up saying that you deleted the text so it won’t get @#@#* copied!!!

    Dear MS: I want to @#%(*@#(* copy text, and NO you are *NOT* smarter than I am!

    Basically, Windows 8 is like a megacosm (antonym of microcosm) of that example where MS says f-you, we know better than you because unlike our founder we didn’t drop out of our overpriced private university, so therefore you are our slave.

    Dear Steve Ballmer: Every morning before you slam back your five pounds of bacon repeat after me: “Even the stupidest grandma that ever booted Windows is smarter than I am, and I’ll spend what little time I have left at MS being less of a condescending douche.”

      • ronch
      • 7 years ago

      You know what Steve Jobs said: They’re the ones who should tell the customers what they want because the customers don’t know what they want until Apple makes it (something like that). Guess Ballmer has been reading Jobs’ biography.

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        Apple does lots of market research to know what customers want. MS probably does not.

          • ermo
          • 7 years ago

          … I beg your pardon?

          [quote<] Reed Cundiff, senior director of central market research for Microsoft: "We spend millions of dollars that affects hundreds of millions of dollars in marketing spend that affects billions of dollars in revenue. We have to get it right."[/quote<] [url=http://blog.vovici.com/blog/bid/23231/Market-Research-at-Microsoft-Evolution-of-the-MR-Department<]Per the above quote[/url<], Microsoft does not appear to be oblivious to the fact that market research is crucial to their bottom line. As for whether they are doing a good job, well, it appears that Apple is certainly doing a [i<]better[/i<] job.

      • moog
      • 7 years ago

      It’s definitely not about attitude or being smart at all. Sometimes things are half baked due to lack of people/time.

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        Then they shouldn’t put it on the market.

          • ermo
          • 7 years ago

          In principle, I agree.

          However, I’m afraid that there are bigger concerns here, such as coordinating partner product launches and thus ensuring that Microsoft doesn’t burn its bridges.

          An OS isn’t much good if nobody is willing to design, engineer, manufacture, sell and support the hardware on which it runs, not to mention designing and selling software for it.

          • moog
          • 7 years ago

          Why not?

          There are thousands of scenarios and obscure use cases like the one chuckula is talking about. Most get discovered and fixed but some are deemed not fix worthy because there are worse issues or workarounds.

          If devs had their way, no software would ever get shipped because they love fixing their bugs or redesigning for perf or other reasons. But we aspire to make money from our work so there are fixed schedules.

      • Knee Dragger
      • 7 years ago

      Dude – you sound really dumb when you explain words that you use in your own post.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      you’re just jealous you can’t eat 5lbs of bacon a day. i know i am.

    • credible
    • 7 years ago

    I may very well lean Krogoths way in his thought that its a “panic” move by MS to combat the competitors.

    There is must have been a way that they could have added the vast majority of the new features as SP-2 for Win-7.

    I have not even run Win 8 yet, but just going by all that I have read, the fact that they would try and market it as an all new operating system smells of what Krogoth is saying.

    • sweatshopking
    • 7 years ago

    don’t care. i can handle the single click to get to my desktop. factor in the additional half a second it takes to click the desktop and then subtract the 20 seconds it takes to boot 8 vs 7, and i’m still 19.5 seconds ahead. it matters not a bit to me.

      • JohnC
      • 7 years ago

      You “don’t care” so much that you decided to post it twice? 😉

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        YEAH. ITS THAT IMPORTANT.

        wtf is with all the double posts????

          • Deanjo
          • 7 years ago

          Must be using that Metro browser.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            opera

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        Proof SSK is a google forum troll bot. We are arguing with a machine.

          • MadManOriginal
          • 7 years ago

          A machine of LOVE.

            • superjawes
            • 7 years ago

            That is a DISTURBING mental image….

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<] That is a EROTIC mental image....[/quote<] fixed

            • NeelyCam
            • 7 years ago

            I thought you didn’t like erotica

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            I don’t. but SJ does.

            • entropy13
            • 7 years ago

            “Fixed”? More like, “replaced one word and ignore the grammatical error that ensues”.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            ok, i see your point. i just wanted to say that SJ liked my body. end of story. you should have figured out by now i’m not the sharpest tool.

            • mutarasector
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]That is AN EROTIC mental image....[/quote<] Now it's fixed. 🙂

      • xeridea
      • 7 years ago

      It only takes me 20 seconds to boot Windows 7, on an average setup. My friends laptop boots to desktop in about 8-10 seconds (BIOS takes longer). How could Windows 8 possibly be 20 seconds faster?

      Its not a matter of a couple seconds, its a matter of MS forcibly shoving garbage at everyone, when most people hate it, and go out of their way to prevent any workarounds, which will only hurt sales in a very big way, lose goodwill from a large customer base, and make them worse off in the future.

      • tviceman
      • 7 years ago

      The problem isn’t switching. The problem is that Microsoft is pretty much telling desktop users to use Windows 8 in an inferior manner on their desktop. How much you wanna bet that Windows 9 will take even more desktop functionality away?

        • khands
        • 7 years ago

        Nah, Windows 9 will probably be split to windows touch and windows classic versions, at least along the Pro/Home lines. You know, after W8 flops.

      • entropy13
      • 7 years ago

      It’s a big shame that you are content of using the contraptions of heretics.

      • tanker27
      • 7 years ago

      SSK, in a home setting this fine. It wont fly in a corporate setting.

      • tootercomputer
      • 7 years ago

      I have Win 8 64-bit on an SSD on a 4 year -old laptop and it boots incredibly fast, much faster than Win 7. The Metro start screen is absolutely not a biggie. But what does but me is that I have to enter a password on boot, and that takes extra time. I have not figured out a workaround for that yet.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        oh, that’s easy
        run netplwiz and then uncheck “users need password” enter your password, and click ok.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          wtf? why am i downvoted for helping a brother out?

            • NeelyCam
            • 7 years ago

            Because of the arrogance oozing from “oh, that’s easy”

            I know you didn’t mean it that way, but people lack ESP skills

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            oh geez. i didn’t mean it like that. I just meant “don’t worry! that’s an easy one to fix! *smiles*!” there’s not many times on here i get to know something the real nerds don’t so i was just happy to help.

    • sweatshopking
    • 7 years ago

    don’t care. i can handle the single click to get to my desktop. factor in the additional half a second it takes to click the desktop and then subtract the 20 seconds it takes to boot 8 vs 7, and i’m still 19.5 seconds ahead. it matters not a bit to me.

    • Bensam123
    • 7 years ago

    Shove it down our throats a little further MS, pleeeaaseee. God I want this so bad.

      • tviceman
      • 7 years ago

      Wow you have the funniest comment on this article and it’s getting rated down. 🙁

    • Krogoth
    • 7 years ago

    It is because Microsoft is trying to pimp their app store to the masses. (It is Windows 8’s raison d’etre)

    They don’t care about business users, because Windows 8 isn’t meant for the enterprise market. They have Windows 7 to take care of that and businesses are still in the process of doing the entire XP => 7 migration.

    Secondly, you only need to make one mouse click to get to the desktop. I don’t see what the whole fuss is all about.

    Besides, Windows 8 doesn’t offer anything compelling to most normal desktop users outside of the app store. It just has minor upgrades on some of the bulit-in tools and Hyper-V support (only virtualization geeks care about this).

      • xeridea
      • 7 years ago

      The big fuss is that Metro is so ugly and hated that no one ever wants to see it… ever.

      • MadManOriginal
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]you only need to make one mouse click to get the desktop[/quote<] That's true, and it's fine for most people maybe. The problem isn't the Start Screen itself, or that it is easy to click and get away from, it's that MS is actively combating attempts to bypass or minimize use of the Start Screen. They could just leave well enough alone and let the nerds have their desktop if they want it and everyone else can have the Start Screen. Combating these workarounds does nothing but irritate users who will just click away from the Start Screen anyway and is a complete waste of time for MS.

        • Thresher
        • 7 years ago

        The problem from MS perspective is that if the largest percentage of your userbase, the enterprise customers, disable your shiny new interface, then no one writes apps for it.

        Of course, the obvious solution from the enterprise customer base is to not upgrade from Win 7.

        It’s a risky plan on MS part, one that I think there is a damn good chance they will win simply because there really isn’t a viable alternative. Year of the Linux desktop notwithstanding.

          • MadManOriginal
          • 7 years ago

          It’s not just risky, it’s stupid. To think that business users would want to run every single program as a full-screen ‘app’ all the time is beyond any sort of justification.

            • Krogoth
            • 7 years ago

            Do you realize that Windows 8 is not geared towards the enterprise/SMB market? Microsoft has Windows 7 to take care of their enterprise/SMB clients. That’s why Microsoft is giving Windows 7 “extended support” they learn the hard way with the whole XP to Vista migration.

            • Thresher
            • 7 years ago

            I don’t think you can say that. It’s aimed at their entire market; SMB, enterprise, and consumer.

            I don’t think MS would bother writing one release geared at the consumer and the next geared to the enterprise as a tick/tock sort of thing like intel does with chips.

            MS is really hoping that Metro (or whatever they call it) takes off and the desktop gets dead and buried. This is why they are willing to risk slow uptake in the business market. Eventually, enterprise and business will have no where else to go and they will switch to the metro style.

            This is why MS is taking that option away, they want to force people to use Metro rather than the desktop.

            I would be okay with this if the new paradigm were more efficient. The fact is, it’s not. At least not on a laptop/desktop.

            Here’s another thing, MS is expecting computer manufacturers to not just make tablets, they are expecting touch screens on laptops too. They’ve dived into these waters in the past and had absolutely no luck because the desktop OS has no place on a touch device. They figure metro solves this.

            I am not so sure. Given a device with a keyboard AND touch, I’m probably going to go with the keyboard and touch is just an expensive thing I don’t need. Touch is fine if you have limited input for your task, but the moment you start needing to do anything productive, if you have a keyboard, the touch part becomes an afterthought. I don’t see people switching back and forth, i see them taking one or the other, not one AND the other.

          • designerfx
          • 7 years ago

          Yep, and there’s no reason to upgrade in this case – it’s Vista all over again. can MS afford that? no.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            ” it’s Vista all over again. can MS afford that? no.”

            Of course they can afford it again, ha ha. Do you really think Vista was anything more than a minor PR backlash in tech circles? It sold fine and made money – like every other previous version of Windows. It doesn’t matter if there’s no reason to upgrade, Microsoft doesn’t and never has made their money from people upgrading, they make money from pre-installed copies of Windows on OEM machines.

            • Krogoth
            • 7 years ago

            Vista had a number of things over XP that made it worth the upgrade. (mainstream x64 support, forced LUA by default, completely reworked GUI which allowed hardware acceleration, rework driver library/model [makes it more difficult for hardware issues to lock the system] etc.)

            The only problem is that some of the improvement made the flaws of NT 5.x painfully apparent and Vista got hammered by them. NT 5.x apps required admin rights and didn’t work correctly under LUA and new driver model meant that driver writers had to “reinvent the wheel”.

            This is where most of your anti-Vista FUD comes from. Too many people got burn when their legacy applications and hardware didn’t work under Vista at launch. Most of the problems were ironed out by the time SP1 roll out, but it was too late to repair the PR damage.

      • Skullzer
      • 7 years ago

      Maybe they’ll sell “boot to desktop” in the app store.

        • Rand
        • 7 years ago

        By Windows 9 they’ll sell “Ability to multi-task”, “ability to use Desktop”, ability to use desktop applications”

          • FuturePastNow
          • 7 years ago

          Nah, Microsoft doesn’t sell features a la carte like that (I wish they did, I’d pay $10 for Bitlocker, but not $100 for the Ultimate edition that has it). They’ll make a separate SKU.

      • Meadows
      • 7 years ago

      One mouse click is infinitely more than you currently need.

        • Krogoth
        • 7 years ago

        Cry me a river.

          • entropy13
          • 7 years ago

          Some areas of the capital are at least 10-feet deep in floodwater now.

      • Phartindust
      • 7 years ago

      ” and businesses are still in the process of doing the entire XP => 7 migration.”

      So true, none of the businesses I deal with have completed migrating to 7 yet, and some haven’t even started because of legacy/ proprietary apps not being compatible with 7. Win 8 isn’t even on the radar.

      This presents a serious problem for MS, if the business community has no intention of installing WIn8 anytime soon, just how do they think they are going to make a profit on this OS? I don’t think that selling only to the retail customer will provide the income they need.

        • Malphas
        • 7 years ago

        “I don’t think that selling only to the retail customer will provide the income they need.”

        Why not? Consumer Windows PC’s are an absolutely gigantic market, and businesses not upgrading to the latest version isn’t something new, it’s always been that way. In any case Microsoft’s priorities aren’t about making money short term, they’re aims are to stay relevant and break into emerging form factors (e.g. tablets), that’s where Windows 8 is focused, but the haters are oblivious to this and just go on relentlessly crying about it spells the end of Microsoft because they’re slightly inconvenienced on their desktop by Metro.

    • MadManOriginal
    • 7 years ago

    It’s almost like MS wants Windows 8 to sell poorly to businesses.

    Ooo wait, maybe this way they can charge more for Win 7 downgrades. Aha! Mystery solved.

      • Krogoth
      • 7 years ago

      Windows 8 isn’t meant for the enterprise market.

      This was painfully obvious once developer preview got into public hands. It is MS’s “panic” response to iOS and Android.

        • MadManOriginal
        • 7 years ago

        Ummm, yeah, I said Enterprises won’t choose Win 8. Do you actually have anything to add, because your reply is oddly looking like a disagreement while going along the same route I did.

        • chuckula
        • 7 years ago

        Don’t know who downthumbed you for that post since it is dead-on accurate. Windows 8 is what happens when Apple releases the iPad and MS craps itself in fear.

        • Deanjo
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]Windows 8 isn't meant for the enterprise market.[/quote<] I wouldn't be so sure of that considering they are doing the same bastardizations to Server.

          • absurdity
          • 7 years ago

          If it changes much for you as you’re working on a server, you’re doing it wrong.

          • Krogoth
          • 7 years ago

          Metro kinda makes sense for servers for one big reason.

          It allows admins to manage servers remotely on their portables by keeping the UI consistent.

      • absurdity
      • 7 years ago

      Anyone with an SA agreement will be sticking with Windows 7 for many years to come anyways, regardless of how good or bad 8 is.

    • Kaleid
    • 7 years ago

    So it’s confirmed. Microsoft are a-holes.

    • henfactor
    • 7 years ago

    When you have users begging for the option to stick with your old product, shouldn’t that be a sign to just [i<]maybe[/i<] re-think what you're building to begin with?

      • cycomiko
      • 7 years ago

      If they listened to everone wanting to stick to the old product, they would have stopped at XP, or 2k before that, or maybe 98, even 95…

        • Grigory
        • 7 years ago

        Hmm, you are both right. Now the question is: How can both paradigms be combined into a good product? So far they did well with up until Windows 7.

          • JohnC
          • 7 years ago

          Why combine anything? Just give users a choice of using whatever default GUI (including the Start menu) they want to, right during the installation of OS – the new “Tetris” one or the old “Classic” one… Of course, “choice” is not a positive word in Microsoft’s vocabulary…

            • absurdity
            • 7 years ago

            Because I still, over 10 years after XP’s release, have to determine what configuration the start menu is in (over the phone) before I can get people to control panel.

            • Meadows
            • 7 years ago

            In XP only. Which you’re not supposed to support anymore.

            • Scrotos
            • 7 years ago

            [url<]http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?c2=1173[/url<] Seems to me that Microsoft is supporting XP into 2014. Why again is he supposed to not support it?

            • Wirko
            • 7 years ago

            Please click Start … do you see “Settings” written an inch above it? … Yes? … Then click on Settings first … well, that’s about all it takes, if only the person on the other side knows how to use the mouse.
            Now if the Start menu, in any Windows version, was as configurable as I’d like it to be then you would have to prepare for a really long support session, with a coffee machine at hand, some food, and of course a hands-free phone. My Start button isn’t in the lower left corner, either.

        • Zoomer
        • 7 years ago

        You realize it’s just the shell, right? I hate how they tie the shell to the actual operating system.

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        There is a difference between changing things for the good, and just giving a big screw you all attitude like they have with Win8. Vista was horrible on release, XP wasn’t perfect, but they both got better in time as the bugs was worked out. Win8 has no hope and will die a short death.

      • JohnC
      • 7 years ago

      Pfft… when has Microsoft actually cared about what the users think?

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        Well they used to, not so much anymore.

      • GTVic
      • 7 years ago

      Get over it, unless you enjoy being unoriginal.

      • crabjokeman
      • 7 years ago

      You’re always going to have users that can’t accept changes (especially larger ones) to the basic UI, and they will complain loudly/frequently, so you need a good market/customer survey. to determine that sort of thing. I have a feeling the majority of users will probably dislike Win8, but learn to live with it or hack around it.

        • absurdity
        • 7 years ago

        People may also *gasp* learn to like it. They have all the feedback in the world, but they’re obviously trying to go somewhere with it and that’s why they’re sticking to it.

        They also have a big hit in their pocket (Windows 7), so they can on some level afford to have this one not do so well. The corporate world picks an OS and sticks with it for a while, and 7 is it (whether Windows 8 is a big hit or not).

          • yogibbear
          • 7 years ago

          My organisation like JUST migrated to Vista x64…. we are soooo dreadfully slow. Someone posted a questions on these spam emails we use for technical stuff about a program not working because it was 16-bit that he’d been using for ~15 yrs….

          Hahahahahah… NO migration plan. Bunch of idiots. Now they have to start again from first principles, but are sooo used to using this programming instead of understanding how the calculations work that they should probably just retire.

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        Win8 is not about giving us a better OS, it’s about MS being afraid of loosing it’s grab on pc’s to Apple and Google (and maybe even to Linux).

      • David
      • 7 years ago

      Yeah! WIndows NT didn’t need improvement! Stupid Microsoft…

      • Bensam123
      • 7 years ago

      All we want is the option, not even for MS to change directions…

      • GrimDanfango
      • 7 years ago

      Users have begged to stick with every previous version of Windows in history. Sometimes they were right, but I remember plenty of resistance to XP and Windows 7.
      Windows 8 may not be the perfect update, just the way Vista was a bit of a mess, but the new ideas thrown around in Vista certainly paved the way for Windows 7, and no progress will ever be made if they stick with what everyone’s already used to.

      Windows 8 doesn’t need to be Windows 7… we’ve got Windows 7 for that. Why shouldn’t they try something new?

    • jstern
    • 7 years ago

    This news alone is really making me not wanting to support Windows 8 ever. It doesn’t sound like much, but wow their really going out of their way just to prevent a very few people from booting up to the desktop (which would make me like Windows 8 a lot better). It feels like a person on a power trip.

      • blastdoor
      • 7 years ago

      It’s as if ballmer were trying to emulate Fake Steve Jobs.

        • jstern
        • 7 years ago

        Exactly

        • Krogoth
        • 7 years ago

        Wrong guy.

        It is actually Steve Sinofsky who is trying to emulate the late Steve Jobs. It is kinda creepy if you think about it.

        Windows 8 is his baby.

          • blastdoor
          • 7 years ago

          More broadly, I bet there are a lot of unreformed narcissists out there who are using Steve Jobs as an excuse to embrace their inner a-holes.

          The thing that these guys don’t get is that Jobs (like most people) was not perfect. Just because he had a given personality trait, that doesn’t mean it’s a good trait — it might even be something that he succeeded in spite of, not because of. The trick is figuring out which attributes are worth emulating and which ones are not.

          edit — follow-up thought: same rule applies to Apple products, too. Adding $200 to your pricetag doesn’t mean you’re going to suddenly be as profitable as Apple.

      • xeridea
      • 7 years ago

      There will probably be a pirated version that allows it, and there will still be 3rd party start menus. MS is really shooting themselves by doing this. I will be sticking to Win7 till the end of time (or Metro dies).

        • Chandalen
        • 7 years ago

        I’m honestly one program (that’s in development currently, but the original code = spaghetti hacked up single core 32 bit only code so it’s taking awhile) to be ported over to linux, and _I’ll_ lose any real reason to stick with windows at this point. Other than that one program, I only really use steam for the friends list at this point instead of for actual games so it will be nice when that comes over finally as well.

          • Malphas
          • 7 years ago

          Yeah, because Linux is going to be so much better than Windows 8. Seriously, what is it with you idiots that think Linux is some magic solution to the fact you dislike one aspect of Windows? You realise that the Gnome shell is already becoming increasingly similar to a Metro-style UI also right? It’s just the natural evolution of interfaces due to form factors becoming more varied and increasingly portable and touchscreen, as opposed to a traditional desktop (which is slowly dying in the consumer space). Just get over it and grow up instead of crying constantly.

            • Shouefref
            • 7 years ago

            Sorry, but W8 has been made with the utter neglect of the desktop user.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            Well obviously, I basically just said that. What’s your point? Linux is still worse, by far.

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      Exactly.

      They’re going out of their way to remove the flexibility that has made Windows so good for all these years. It’s a bit like opinions – everyone is entitled to have their own way of doing things. “DO IT MY WAY OR SUFFER, PEONS” is not the solution.

    • bjm
    • 7 years ago

    If the leaked RTMs are any indication, then booting to the desktop still works and the article is incorrect. I don’t see how Microsoft can even disable that functionality. Accessing the desktop is really only a matter of activating the desktop shortcut; there is nothing special about it.

    Unless Microsoft intends to fully disable all auto-startup capability, there isn’t any sane way they can disable this. As [url=https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=82991<]I mentioned previously[/url<], you can still use applications like Classic Shell to automatically activate the desktop -- reducing the Metro screen to nothing more than a splash screen.

      • panthal
      • 7 years ago

      Have any of you that run large amounts of servers actually looked at some of the cool features they’ve added for Win 8 (2012)Server?

      [url<]http://blogs.technet.com/b/windowsserver/archive/2012/03/15/windows-server-8-taking-server-application-storage-to-windows-file-shares.aspx[/url<] Lots of links to peruse. [url<]http://blogs.technet.com/b/josebda/archive/2012/08/02/updated-links-on-windows-server-2012-file-server-and-smb-3-0.aspx[/url<] Personally i find this interesting [url<]http://blogs.technet.com/b/josebda/archive/2012/05/13/the-basics-of-smb-multichannel-a-feature-of-windows-server-2012-and-smb-3-0.aspx[/url<] So much added I'm not sure how anyone in Enterprise couldn't like all the added features.Tons.Actually useful performance/reliability changes. I do understand the gripe about Metro,but the server features are sick if you actually read through it all,or care enough to. Too many people caught up in the "omg Metro blows" broken record. I get it,Metro does suck,but actually look at the great features for server. Edit**I get that I'm off topic as this thread really pertains to the booting to desktop issue,i just think some of the great features they've added don't get much press.It would be very cool if TR did a report on all the added server related features/gains/failover features.Would make for a very interesting read.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        it’s a solid update to the OS

        • bjm
        • 7 years ago

        Indeed. Chief among all the new Windows Server features is ReFS. If ReFS was the only new feature to Windows Server, it would be worth the upgrade. Yes, ZFS had many of the features long before ReFS was even a thought in Microsoft’s head, but these types of features can never be considered too late to implement — they are simply too significant.

        Data checksumming, mirroring, and scrubbing are awesome features. It still won’t win over any Solaris shops, but if you’re company is a Microsoft shop, it’s well worth the consideration to upgrade in my opinion.

          • panthal
          • 7 years ago

          This is pretty amazing also….

          [url<]http://alturl.com/mbwt7[/url<] Also for those interested in the new filesystem bjm touched on... [url<]http://tinyurl.com/839wnbe[/url<]

          • panthal
          • 7 years ago

          I also imagine these 2d performance gains wont be bad either….

          [url<]http://hexus.net/tech/news/software/42817-windows-8-accelerates-mainstream-application-graphics/[/url<]

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        The average user doesn’t care about server features on their desktop OS, and Metro sux way more than any benefit from server. People who really care about server features just use Linux anyway.

      • oldDummy
      • 7 years ago

      having used W8 for a few days I find it has forced me to pin my most used apps to the taskbar.
      Now maybe others do this all the time; I never did.
      Don’t know all the hoops and shortcuts to work through yet.
      Seems like W7 mostly, no great surprise there.
      Can see where a touchscreen would be borged;
      makes a small nuisance on the desktop.

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        I have 4 apps pinned to taskbar, my others are in recently used or pinned to start menu. You can’t do this in Win8, so…. sad day.

    • indeego
    • 7 years ago

    Their philosophy is that the user wants information immediately available. The issue is the defaults they set up are likely not to address the information most users typically want to see first on startup. I mean, I own stocks, but I rarely check them, and I certainly don’t want to have it take a portion of my main screen when I turn on my computer. Most people don’t change defaults, or tinker. Most pros have a specific methodology to get where they want to be.

    I really wanted to see the system state saved in a VM instead of a shutdown/startup routine where users must start over with all their apps. That would get the jarring screen of Metro out of my face.

    Kinda sucks.

      • Geistbar
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]I really wanted to see the system state saved in a VM instead of a shutdown/startup routine where users must start over with all their apps. That would get the jarring screen of Metro out of my face.[/quote<] I'm pretty sure this is something that we're going to see eventually, but we just aren't quite there yet for being able to do it well enough.

        • indeego
        • 7 years ago

        Not quite sure why this isn’t possible. Windows already segments user and system data fairly well. VM the user’s partitioned data and state at logoff. Live it up when done rebooting and system calls are ready.

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