You can now download Windows 8 RTM as a 90-day trial

Windows 8 is here! Well, sort of.

The full, release-to-manufacturing version of Microsoft’s new operating system isn’t scheduled to hit stores until October 26. However, Microsoft has put up an evaluation version for download on the MSDN Evaluation Center. Anyone with a Windows Live account can get it—no MSDN subscription required. All you have to do is fill a form with your name, e-mail address, country of residence, and preferred language. You’re then free to download the 32-bit or 64-bit version of Windows 8 Enterprise. The downloads weigh in at 2.4GB and 3.3GB, respectively.

After installation, users have 10 days to activate the operating system. They then have another 90 days to evaluate it. A "watermark" in the lower right of the desktop will count down the remaining days. Once the 90 days are up, you’re done. "It is not possible to upgrade the evaluation to a licensed working version of Windows 8," says Microsoft. "A clean installation is required."

Well, at least this is a reasonably straightforward way for folks to give the final, production-ready version of Windows 8 a shot. I still haven’t decided whether I’ll stick with Windows 7 or take the plunge on October 26, so I might try it myself. The new-and-improved desktop is awfully tempting, but I’m wary of the Metro interface Modern UI style and the apparent lack of options to bypass it.

Comments closed
    • mcnasty72@gmail.com
    • 7 years ago

    Has anyone tired running Win8 inside of a virtual machine on VMware Workstation or ESXi?

    • moresmarterthanspock
    • 7 years ago

    I’m downloading it now. I hope it runs World of Warcraft.

      • CuttinHobo
      • 7 years ago

      I’m guessing that was about the first game they tested for compatibility.

        • moresmarterthanspock
        • 7 years ago

        Ugh. Never mind. I don’t care what it runs or doesn’t run. Windows 8 is terrible. It takes 3 clicks to do some of the same tasks it took windows 7 to do with just 2 clicks. Not only that, but I’m always moving my mouse around the screen to get tasks accomplished. I hate touch-screens, so that’s a no-go. I’m lacking some options in the Xonar Essence ST control panel. The one things WIndows 8 has going for it is it is absolutely beautiful. Colors are nice, smoothing is great. But other than that, I WILL NOT be purchasing a copy of Windows 8. I will stick with Windows 7 until it’s end-of-life date, then I will be looking at other options, unless Microsoft either fixes Windows 8, or makes Windows 9 much more simple and straight-forward.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          yeah, i’m sure after the 20 minutes you used the OS for, you probably have a great idea of it’s features.

    • moog
    • 7 years ago

    Did you know Win8 has 320 hrs of standby?

    [url<]http://tinyurl.com/8o2ab4e[/url<]

    • moog
    • 7 years ago

    For the optimizations and fast IE10, Win8 is pretty awesome.

    Win8 works great with a mouse and keyboard, in fact it works better with a mouse and keyboard than it does with touch.

    Yes, you will boot up in the Start screen.

    From the Start screen:

    Desktop tile to go to desktop
    Or upper leftmost pixel to popup the open apps (including Desktop)

    From the Desktop:

    Bottom leftmost pixel pops up the Start menu.
    Top or bottom rightmost pixel pops up the search bar.

    The search functionality has changed the way I kick off my apps as now I’m typing all the time to find the app and launch it (I haven’t pinned my favorites to Start yet). I’d hate to do this on a touch screen.

      • streagle27
      • 7 years ago

      “The search functionality has changed the way I kick off my apps as now I’m typing all the time to find the app and launch it (I haven’t pinned my favorites to Start yet). I’d hate to do this on a touch screen.

      So now MS is reverting back to the days of good ol’ DOS where a user had to memorize tons of commands to use the OS… except this time.. oh wait, no difference except the background looks alot nicer.

      Nice job!

      I”m sure all the newbie users will LOVE this ‘feature’, just like they loved DOS!

        • jstern
        • 7 years ago

        It’s pretty much the same as in Windows 7. For example in both OS if I want to open Google Earth I just press the Windows Key and the type G and then press Enter. Much easier than DOS. I guess the other guy likes to click while in Windows 7, but I’ve always found typing one to 3 words then pressing Enter to be much easier in Windows 7 & 8.

        Your comment sounded like exaggerated nagging because it sound as if you just want to criticize no matter what.

          • streagle27
          • 7 years ago

          I much prefer the improved Start Menu in Windows 7, as a matter of fact, along with a customizable Quick Launch Toolbar.

          Once the Quick Launch icons are setup, or if the Start Menu is available, no need to find apps, or remember their names… unless of course, there is a bug in the Toolbar implementation (there is) in Win 7 which kills all your toolbars pretty much at random, forcing the user to recreate them or restart them manually.

          While opinions do vary, facts were presented to you in the prior post as well as in this one, which you are free to perceive in any manner you wish.

        • Kaleid
        • 7 years ago

        Yes, this typing to start apps isn’t good.

        I have 10 “apps” i can access in the taskbar (the most used ones) and 16 are instantly accessible through the start menu. (Small icons and the second most used groups of programs). The desktop has about 10 apps too, which I rarely use.

        I see no reason why I would have to start typing to start programs..

    • HisDivineOrder
    • 7 years ago

    The problem I have is that Microsoft is yet again missing out on an opportunity to encourage users to try their OS risk-free. I mean, if they would just offer a version of this built for the home users and allow people to “upgrade” it to the full retail version, then people might be more inclined to try it. When I was younger, I’d probably have installed this, replacing my Windows 7, tried it, and thought, “No harm, no foul” when I was done if I found it to be as repellent as the prior versions I tried.

    But I just don’t feel like installing a version I know for a fact I won’t be able to upgrade in any form to the full retail version and it strikes me as very, very lazy of MS not to offer that option for users.

      • indeego
      • 7 years ago

      I agree, but the app ecosystem isn’t quite ready, marketing is vital to coordinate the release with reviews and buzz. They have to hire and train support staff for the tens of thousands of calls they will get daily, etc.

    • Malphas
    • 7 years ago

    So many nerd tears over Metro.

      • Kaleid
      • 7 years ago

      Not tears. RAGE!!!!!!

      • rrr
      • 7 years ago

      So you’re crying, Mr Beckham?

    • albundy
    • 7 years ago

    Why would i downgrade? ms should have included DX12 from this version up only, to force people to upgrade. its the only way they can get people to buy it, lol.

    • ronch
    • 7 years ago

    Those kids who bought an FX and hoping it’ll do better with Win8 are probably going to be biting their fingernails thinking about this.

    • Fractux
    • 7 years ago

    Maybe it’s already been said, but I look at it this way.

    MS needs to get in on the table market. They put resources into developing their table OS.

    MS looks at the past, and sees that most users were happy to clutch on to XP as their desktop OS for almost 10 years.

    Roll in windows 7, and people are pretty content with it, and will probably hold onto it for a long time. Plus you can keep buying a win7 pc for another 1-2 years, if you still want to.

    So they try to push in on the table market and see where interactive touch devices go, while knowing that on the desktop front people will use windows 7 for quite a few more years.

    It’s not the way I’d like to see things progress, but it looks to be more of a business plan to me.

      • travbrad
      • 7 years ago

      I agree that’s their general plan. They know the enterprise users (and some home users) are just going to stick with Windows 7 anyway. Enterprise environments almost never upgrade to the latest Windows version, even when they are great OSs. A lot of companies still haven’t even switched to Win7, for example.

      It’s still annoying that they are trying to force a touch-UI on to non-touch devices though. The “one UI to rule them all” just doesn’t work. There is never going to be a UI that is great for both mouse/kb and touch. The “traditional” Windows UI is great for a mouse, but terrible for touch. “Metro” is great for touch, but terrible for a mouse.

        • Anomymous Gerbil
        • 7 years ago

        Many (most?) large enterprises won’t even be on Win7 yet.

      • BabelHuber
      • 7 years ago

      I think MS is simply in panic-mode.

      [quote<]Google's Android now powers two out of every three smartphones sold worldwide. They are running away also with the installed base globally powering now 4 out of every 10 smartphones in use. In this past quarter, Android smartphones outsold the number 2 platfrom - Apple's iOS - by almost 4 to 1 !!! This is the obvious global platform and [b<]if Google manages to continue to sell two out of every three smartphones, the Android OS will grow to exceed the total PC based Windows installed base as early as Q1 of 2014 !!! (And this is ignoring any Android based tablets or other devices).[/b<] No wonder Microsoft is utterly panicking about their smartphone strategy, Windows 8 etc.[/quote<] (Emphasis mine) Source: [url<]http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/08/smartphone-market-shares-q2-full-numbers-samsung-and-android-solidifying-their-leads.html[/url<]

        • Krogoth
        • 7 years ago

        Precisely. I have been saying this all along to the naysayers to no avail.

        Windows 8 is meant for the current mainstream market which is currently into tablets and other portables devices.

          • Malphas
          • 7 years ago

          The anti-Metro hateboys will never understand the realities of the market, Krogoth. They’re stuck in their narrow 90’s worldview where computer usage is still about home built desktops and dismiss touchscreen devices as “toys” or a “passing fad”. They remind me of the Amiga diehards in the early 90’s who scoffed at IBM-compatibles and Macs and insisted their platform was superior.

            • BabelHuber
            • 7 years ago

            Nevertheless, I don’t see the new MS-strategy really working:

            – Windows 8 on the desktop: many people don’t like it. We’ll see how this turns out

            – Windows 8 (tablets): Will most likely be a success in the business environment, but also cannibalizes notebook sales. It remains to be seen if Windows can grow here in absolute numbers

            – Windows RT: Incompatible with x86, very restricted (no sideloading of Apps, no native Apps, small App Store); Only strongpoint is MS Office.

            – Windows Phone 8: Since WP7 was a total disaster, I don’t expect this to become the ‘third eco system’ anytime soon.
            iOS and Android have such a lead here, MS needs to release an OS which really is superiour to gain market share. If they only play catch-up, they surelywill fail again.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            It’s still better than doing nothing (which is what the whiners basically want, they’d rather Microsoft just leave the dated 9x style UI forever and continue to make performance and stability improvements catering to traditional PC only). If they did that they’d just fade into obsolescence as mobile continues to take over in the consumer space. It’s possible they would eventually just become another IBM, catering to the enterprise while Google and Apple are left as the big boys.

            Also, I don’t necessarily disgaree with you that Microsoft has a massive challenge on their hands, but a few comments on some of your points:

            [quote<]Windows 8 on the desktop: many people don't like it. We'll see how this turns out[/quote<] Desktop users have nowhere else to go. Linux? Please. Not only that but the desktop is becoming increasingly irrelevant, desktop sales have been shrinking in the consumer market for years now, with the majority of PCs sold being laptops. The enterprise sector is still a far way off from that, but it's still slowly becoming more common for employees to be issued laptops rather than a desktop in a cubicle. [quote<] - Windows RT: Incompatible with x86, very restricted (no sideloading of Apps, no native Apps, small App Store); Only strongpoint is MS Office.[/quote<] Yes, that's the whole point of Windows 8. Microsoft realise they suck at breaking into mobile markets, and Google and Apple have a massive headstart, that's why they're making traditional Windows work on tablets, rather than creating a new mobile OS that will fail like the others. The thinking is that developers will have much more incentive to write Metro apps for Windows 8 since it will soon have a huge userbase (due to it being preinstalled on every new Dell/HP/Acer/etc.). As you're probably aware Metro apps will work on RT as well as x86. [quote<]- Windows Phone 8: Since WP7 was a total disaster, I don't expect this to become the 'third eco system' anytime soon. iOS and Android have such a lead here, MS needs to release an OS which really is superiour to gain market share. If they only play catch-up, they surelywill fail again.[/quote<] Agreed, and that's why they're now taking this approach or leveraging Windows position to break into movile, which I think is at least better than what they've attempted in the past. You can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, even if that's what a few irate nerds would rather you do.

            • BabelHuber
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]It's still better than doing nothing (which is what the whiners basically want, they'd rather Microsoft just leave the dated 9x style UI forever and continue to make performance and stability improvements catering to traditional PC only). If they did that they'd just fade into obsolescence as mobile continues to take over in the consumer space.[/quote<] I completely agree. But nevertheless, they do it wrong: The strong point of Windows always was its openness. You could buy separate licences and install it on any PC. You could install everything you wanted. You could fork the system like you saw fit. With Windows 8, they are removing this openness from WP8 and Windows RT. My Android phone is completely open. I can install any Rom I like (currently running 4.1 on SGS2), I can root it, I can sideload Apps. Sideloading Apps with Android really is trivial for example: You have an according option in the standard Settings-menu. Check the flag. Done. With their locked-down approach, MS won't find many people switching from iOS (why should they?). Android users won't switch in numers to a closed system, too. Just look at the Nokia Lumias: I was a long-term Nokia user. I liked having a file browser, using the phone as USB-stick, having Bluetooth file transfer, rSAp etc. with Symbian. WP7 has a shiny UI with 'tiles' (AKA widgets on other OSes), but no functionality behind it. No wonder ex-Nokia users went mostly to Android and ignored the Lumias. Additionally, MS leaves their small number of WP7 customers in the dust by providing no upgrade path to WP8. From this track record, I don't see me buying a Windows Rt or WP8 device, and I surely won't recommend it to anybody.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]The strong point of Windows always was its openness[/quote<] This is sort of correct, just not in the way you intend it. Windows' strong point was that it was open on the industry side of things, not the consumer side. DOS and Windows emerged during a time when the hardware and software were tied together, the same model Apple still use today, DOS was different in that it would run on any IBM-PC Compatible, you didn't have to buy into a certain hardware/software package from one vendor. This enabled a multitude of manufacturers to all release DOS (and later Windows) computers, increased competition, lower prices, wider range of models. That leads to greater marketshare, which it turn leads to increased developer interest and more software. That's why Windows become so successful in the 90's on desktop computers and it's for similar reasons that Android has become popular on smartphones today. You're overestimating the importance of the kind of "openness" that you're talking about has to the average consumer. I'm interested in tech, so yeah I have a rooted phone, and mess around with custom ROMs, sideloading apps, etc. but the vast majority of Android users don't do this. Most people have the stock ROM, stock Launcher, and download a few apps from the official store and that's it. Exactly the same sort of usage as iOS in other words. If openness was as important as you claim then perhaps Linux would actually have a non-neglible marketshare. Fact is, most people don't care about things being open, they just want something that works. That's why Apple is increasingly popular, despite the fact their prices are considerably higher on average than PCs.

            • BabelHuber
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]You're overestimating the importance of the kind of "openness" that you're talking about[/quote<] There were always lots of enthusiasts on Windows. While they were a minority, I don't think they were unimportant. WP 8 and Windows RT don't seem to attract enthusiasts, but OTOH they don't have the marketing-power like Apple. So bringing the enthusiasts on your platform is a good idea IMO. Friends and colleagues often ask me for recommendations, and I see no single reason to go with MS for mobile. Why not just buy some iPhone/iPad if you want an easy-to-use walletgarden? Why buy MS at all? OTOH there are reasons to buy Android, e.g. the simple fact that you can root it if necessary (e.g. when discovering your car supports rSAP, but your phone currently not)

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            I still think that openness isn’t a major factor in appealing to mainstream users, although you’re correct that there’s not a whole lot going for Windows Phone at the moment, I feel that’s due more to the fact that Android got there first and basically played the role that Windows did for PCs in the 90’s in providing an alternative that wasn’t tied to a particular manufacturer’s hardware.

            Now that Android is semi-mature and has built up an app ecosystem it’s going to be very difficult for WP to break into the market – again, in the same way the desktop OS market was sewn up by Microsoft. I think trying to be more open, a la Android wouldn’t be particularly effective, and their best bet is probably to play it somewhere in between iOS and Android by allowing different manufacturers to make WP devices but imposing some sort of standards. I mean, look at how fragmented the Android market is with most users still on Gingerbread, or how every OEM insists on installing their own launcher, lockscreen, bloated set of apps, etc.

            Those are probably Android’s main weaknesses and so that’s where Microsoft should aim to do better, which actually necessitates [i<]less[/i<] openness, not more. If Microsoft can provide a consistent, polished, Apple-style user experience, whilst still allowing different manufacturers to produce different devices at different price points then they might actually have a half-decent platform to differentiate themselves and to market from.

            • BabelHuber
            • 7 years ago

            Ok, regarding openness, we can agree to disagree.

            But you fall for the old ‘fragmentation’ myth:

            It is not fragmentation, it is choice for the customer: You have so many different handsets with Android: Screen size, battery removable/non-removable, SD card support yes/no, different hardware specs (even x86-phones are now out) like camera, screen resolution etc.

            This is actually good for customers. ‘Fragmentation’ is a problem for developers, not for end users. Why should I care about this as long as the Apps I need/want are working?

            Just have a look at the Nokia Lumia phones: Each phone is a clone of each other. The Lumia 900 is bigger, but is has the same screen resolution, SoC, etc. as the Lumia 800.

            Why hasn’t Nokia released a QWERTY-phone with WP7? Why does the Nokia 808 PureView run Symbian? Because its camera isn’t even supported on WP7!

            So WP makes it dificult for vendors to differntiate their product, while Android makes it easy.

            Also, you have to look at the market current share:

            [url<]http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/08/smartphone-market-shares-q2-full-numbers-samsung-and-android-solidifying-their-leads.html[/url<] [quote<]INSTALLED BASE OF SMARTPHONES BY OPERATING SYSTEM AS OF Q2 2012 Rank . OS Platform . . . . . . Units . . . . . Market share . . Was in Q1 of 2012 1 . . . . Android . . . . . . . . . 427 M . . . . . 41 % . . . . . . . . ( 32 %) 2 . . . . Symbian . . . . . . . . 259 M . . . . . 25 % . . . . . . . . ( 30 %) 3 . . . . iOS . . . . . . . . . . . 198 M . . . . . 19 % . . . . . . . . ( 18 %) 4 . . . . Blackberry . . . . . . 108 M . . . . . 10 % . . . . . . . . ( 11 %) 5 . . . . bada . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 M . . . . . 2 % . . . . . . . . ( 2 %) 6 . . . . Windows Phone . . . . 14 M . . . . . 1 % . . . . . . . . ( 1 %) 7 . . . . Windows Mobile . . . . 13 M . . . . 1 % . . . . . . . . ( 2 %) Others . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21 M . . . . . 2 % . . . . . . . . ( 3 %) TOTAL Installed Base . . . 1,059 M smartphones in use at end of Q2 2012 Source: TomiAhonen Consulting Estimates August 15, 2012 from vendor data and other sources This table may be freely distributed[/quote<] With more than 400 Million potential customers worldwide and the biggest growth, Android is the number 1 ecosystem to develop for, even though development is more complicated. If the salesnumbers stay this way, you can add another 100 Million Android phones per quarter and another 25 Million iPhones. This growth alone dwarfs the complete installed base of WP. MS cannot turn around this with some nice features, they need a killer feature which iOS and Android lacks and which is highly desired by customers. AFAIK, MS does not have such a feature. WP8 will fail, like WP7 already did.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]It is not fragmentation, it is choice for the customer: You have so many different handsets with Android: Screen size, battery removable/non-removable, SD card support yes/no, different hardware specs (even x86-phones are now out) like camera, screen resolution etc.[/quote<] I'm not talking about different specification phones though, I'm talking about different Android versions and manufacturers installing their own user interfaces, that's fragmentation in that it's presenting users with an inconsistent experience.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            one of the main points of wp8 is to allow for a variety of builds. You’re right that android does allow more variation, but most android phones suck. Seriously, let’s be honest here. Most of them are subpar phones. There are a few great flagship phones, like the samsung galaxy, but most suck.

            • BabelHuber
            • 7 years ago

            This makes no sense, sorry. When I buy a phone, I have a UI. How am I fragmented, then?

            Besides, I`ve used Android 2.2, 2.3, 3.2, 4.0 and 4.1. Getting used to the new version isno problem, even my dad could handle the switch from 2.3 to 4.0 without problems.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            Dear god, you’re obtuse. Different Android phones having different default UI’s is obviously fragmented, I’m not saying it’s inherently bad, I’m just saying it is a potential point that Microsoft can use to differentiate themselves in the market. As for versions, it’s not about getting used to new versions is about the app ecosystem.

            My point was Microsoft can place themselves between Apple and Google by:

            A) Offering as much consistency as possible similarly to iOS – when you develop for an iPhone you know exactly what you’re developing for, when you develop for Android you’ve got to take into account the version, resolution, screen size, processor, etc. etc.

            B) But at the same time offering a variety of handsets unlike Apple where you just have the choice of essentially one phone at one price (more or less). So yes, it won’t be quite as simple as Apple’s one model system, but there’s still a wide area between Apple offering and the plethora of Android phones with completely different specifications, UI’s and default apps. Microsoft can insist on OEMs adhering to a certain set of standards, such as physical button placement, minimum hardware requirements, no installing of third party user-interfaces, etc. and therefore provide a more consistent experience but not at the same cost of choice as Apple do. Essentially every Windows Phone can be the equivalent of a Google Nexus device.

            It was very tiresome having to dumb down what I was saying to the point where you might comprehend it, and this is the last time I’m doing it. So if you still don’t understand, then I give up. But again for the record this isn’t a jibe at Android, it’s just how Microsoft can market WP.

            • Shouefref
            • 7 years ago

            I don’t know whether it’s better than doing nothing.
            You can do the wrong thing too, and push off many of your clients.
            It’s true they have to do something to get a foothold on tablets and smartphones, but I doubt whether they’ve choosen the good way.

            Sometimes I feel sorry for MS: they’re more innovating then you think, but nobody perceives them as innovators.

            • internetsandman
            • 7 years ago

            Not true. Touch has a place, it can be used for proper computing, but most tablets are used for media consumption and very casual gaming, something that is very nice to do on a touchscreen. As an owner of a tablet and a desktop I can certainly say that each of them need their own unique OS and UI to take advantage of the strengths and mitigate the weaknesses of the platform. Metro, as it used to be called, is doing the opposite, amplifying the drawbacks of keyboard/mouse and limiting its strengths

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            So what are you saying is not true exactly? I’m saying the desktop is becoming slowly irrelevant for the majority of mainstream users and people whining about Metro don’t realise this. You’ve just highlighted this yet again by refusing to acknowledge it. Microsoft priority with Windows 8 isn’t appeasing desktop users, it’s about gaining marketshare in tablets and building an app ecosystem.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            What you are saying is the same thing many pundits are saying. They’re wrong and you’re wrong. They are copying Apple’s game plan and think they can win with it.

            Good luck with that. Since when was throwing the baby out with the bathwater a good plan?

            Desktop users are in no danger of being irrelevant any time soon. When you can do detailed photoshop work, CAD, more than a few channels of multitrack recording, or even play an FPS comfortably on your tablet or phone then it will become unnecessary. We are nowhere near that day. Hell, how long has dictation and speech directed software (Dragon Naturally Speaking et. al.) been developed? Ages. Sure it’s more usable than it used to be but it’s still not a seamless or super easy experience.

            Adjuncts, not replacements. Your constant beratement of those who actually have a point is ridiculous. The Metro UI is horribly broken for anyone who has issues with glare, eyesight that is getting worse (everyone over 40), and breaks many longstanding conventions.

            There might be a time where MS needs to pull its users “up to the present” but it’s not now. They have lost the media player war (bye bye Zune), the handset war, they will lose the tablet war – and by their actions are endangering the desktop that they currently own. I’d say that bird in the hand is worth a lot more than chasing those two in the bush.

            They can try to pull the stunt they did with the Xbox by just losing money – but they’re in no danger of ever being more than a niche player outside of it.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            All your arguments are missing the point, exactly for the reasons I mentioned. All you’re saying is “I don’t like Metro for xyz reason”. That’s completely unimportant. Your listing of desktop applications is also missing the point. Did I say desktops would cease to exist and people would be using CAD on tablets? The vast, vast majority of computer users don’t use CAD, or Photoshop. Most people browse the web, instant message, fire off a few emails and maybe some light word processing. That’s where the majority of the market is and that’s what Microsoft are trying to hold onto. If the majority of people use laptops, tablets and smartphones for their IT needs (and that’s increasingly what is actually happening – that’s statistical fact, not opinion) then yes desktops will become irrelevant and only used by a minority for production work. Microsoft needs to aim much wider than that to retain its position.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            ‘All you’re saying is “I don’t like Metro for xyz reason”. That’s completely unimportant. ‘

            You should re-read what I wrote then because you clearly missed my point. I am not the only person that hates the UI, and in case you’re not from North America I’ll point out that baby boomers are the vast majority in this region. Basically MS has made UI decisions that target under 40s. Whereas most of the older folks I know that either didn’t have computers or only desktops went to ipads because they were easy (even fun).

            Furthermore it’s a UI that’s failed multiple times now – having been on Zune and WP7 both of which are non-starters.

            Maybe MS needs to do something – but alienating people isn’t what it is you want to do. I suspect that its partners – most if not all of whom have bailed on Windows RT – see just what is wrong and it isn’t just because of Surface. You don’t walk away from money out of spite.

            You’re claiming that more people are going mobile including laptops – and yet laptops are the same keyboard and mouse/trackpad interface as the desktop. If anything laptops for the case of this particular argument should be considered as desktops.

            You can’t hold onto a user space whose needs you’re desperately trying to ignore. Telling people what they want and need only works if you’re Apple. MS will never have the cohesion of vision they do (and I say this as someone that will never buy an Apple product). Apple asks “how do people use things?” and MS says “here – you’ll use this and like it”.

            Regardless in a year and a half to two years we’ll see if they are stupid enough to go the Xbox route or if they realize their mistake and that you need different UIs (and that people over 40 use computers).

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]You should re-read what I wrote then because you clearly missed my point. I am not the only person that hates the UI, and in case you're not from North America I'll point out that baby boomers are the vast majority in this region. Basically MS has made UI decisions that target under 40s. Whereas most of the older folks I know that either didn't have computers or only desktops went to ipads because they were easy (even fun).[/quote<] I disagree, I don't see your reasoning for why the Metro UI targets the under 40's. The iPad-using baby boomers you mention that didn't necessarily have computers should be much more comfortable on a Metro interface than the old 9X style Start Menu. I think the majority of people most hostile to Metro are in fact fairly proficient Windows users that have never experienced a paradigm shift the way older computer users have (e.g. moving from CLI to GUI, or pre-95 Windows to post-95 Windows). New or inexperienced users should find Metro much more intuitive than the Start Menu, and for people that have been using computers a long time then this is just another big change, from many that have happened previously.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            My reasoning was further upthread. The intense glare of the white and the sharp edges make it hard to deal with. That it’s aesthetically displeasing is secondary. Big ugly squares do not mimic the way people use things – even the ipad has more in common with old windows UI than “modern”. Furthermore over 40s are the most hostile in my experience to social networking (other than oh i get to see my kids/grandkids). Some of my friends only got a cellphone in the last 2-5 years (and my father still thinks they’re the devil).

            We aren’t talking about just desktops – we’re talking about how the UI cheats both mobile users and desktop/laptop users by trying to do too much and not doing it well.

            If you only ever use 5 apps then Metro/Modern might work for you but over that it’s a big ugly f-ed up mess. And ios isn’t. Android isn’t. MS needed to bring their A game and they did what they always do when someone like J Allard isn’t shepherding it – they blow it.

            Yeah they’ve alienated desktop users – they’ve also done nothing that makes their offering more compelling to anyone than the competition. They deserve to have their lunch eaten by their competitors.

            Here is my question to you – what makes their offerings at all compelling? Why would anyone switch from an iphone (or Android or Blackberry) to WP7 or 8? Given an ipad and a win 8 pad at roughly the same price (or hell – cheaper) what will people choose? There are no MS stores where you can bug someone all day about how something works and they’ll have to subsidize like crazy to get anywhere near as inexpensive as the cheapest Android tablets.

            They get a niche – a tiny, tiny niche – of those that somehow can’t stand the UIs of RIM, Apple and Google – and without any of their benefits (while their core users suffer). They are late to the party with half-baked ideas and UI in a market that is not ripe for the picking. Where is the (forgive me) value add?

            MS has never had a particularly good gui but there were a million ways to get around it – so it sufficed. They didn’t have competition to the same degree that it has now. MS has to have a better UI than any of its competition and it has to execute flawlessly. These are the stumblings of a wounded elephant that has no clue what hit it and no idea what to do about it.

            This isn’t progress – it’s stupidity.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]My reasoning was further upthread. The intense glare of the white and the sharp edges make it hard to deal with. That it's aesthetically displeasing is secondary. Big ugly squares do not mimic the way people use things - even the ipad has more in common with old windows UI than "modern"[/quote<] Yeah, again this is just a more elaborate way of saying "I don't like Metro for x reason" it's not a properly backed argument for why it's going to fail.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            The intense glare issue affects many of us over 40. (Hello! How many times have I said this now?) The fact that you ignore it and every other argument is because you’re unwilling to hear an argument that isn’t yours not that those arguments are invalid.

            Will it fail? That wasn’t my argument – that it *is* a failure for significant market groups is undeniable. The bigger question is can it succeed and to my mind given how this UI has not brought them any success yet despite (or because of) it being used on the Zune and WP7 shows an unwillingness to hear what the market has to say until they’re utterly demonized for it.

            You rather conveniently side-stepped my questions as well. Basically I think you’re wasting my time at this point because you’d rather move goalposts and deliberately avoid talking about real issues than your perception – which is based on nothing as far as I can tell.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            what intense glare? Metro has less white space than the desktop.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            [quote<]The intense glare issue affects many of us over 40. (Hello! How many times have I said this now?)[/quote<] For like the third time now I'm having to point out this isn't a proper argument and simply an extension of "I don't like this". Tell me of what research data proves Metro has an "intense glare" and how it affects the over 40's. You can't because you essentially just made it up, backed by biased anecdotal data (i.e. the supposed experiences of you and a few associates). I'm not ignoring your "arguments", it's just that you're spouting such low quality drivel that it barely seems worth addressing (even though I actually did previously, but it flew over your head). I didn't bother answering your question for similar reasons. I've already explained why Microsoft is moving in this direction, I don't have to provide arguments as to why Windows 8 is a more compelling alternative than Android or iOS because I never once claimed it was, only that it's more compelling than Windows 7 on tablets (which would be unworkable) or creating a separate mobile OS (which would fail like previous attempts have).

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            I wish I had written this post. Well put.

            • Kaleid
            • 7 years ago

            It’s simply not made for desktop, and it shows. It decreases productivity and is…bad design.

            • Malphas
            • 7 years ago

            What’s your point? I’m not disputing that (although I think it’s been blown totally out of proportion). The point is it doesn’t matter that it’s not made for desktop, because desktop is a shrinking market with ever decreasing user-relevance. It’s also the area where Microsoft has essentially no competition whatsoever so they don’t need to worry too much about it and can focus on trying to gain marketshare in tablets. That’s why Windows 8 is the way it is, and nerds can cry all they want and proclaim how it’s going to hurt Microsoft, but that won’t change reality.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]Roll in windows 7, and people are pretty content with it, and will probably hold onto it for a long time. Plus you can keep buying a win7 pc for another 1-2 years, if you still want to.[/quote<] Really? How do you do that?

        • Fractux
        • 7 years ago

        Microsoft Sales Lifecycle

        [quote<]In the interest of providing more consistency and predictability with how we manage the Windows lifecycle, we are confirming our current policy of allowing retailers to sell the boxed version of the previous OS for up to 1 year after release of a new OS, and that OEMs can sell PCs with the previous OS pre-loaded for up to 2 years after, the launch date of the new OS. [/quote<] [url<]http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2010/07/12/public-beta-now-available-for-windows-7-and-windows-server-2008-r2-service-pack-1.aspx[/url<] Now will that policy change for Win 8? That, I don't know.

      • raddude9
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<]MS needs to get in on the table market[/quote<] No, I believe microsoft show shy away from competing with Ikea. I've tried using Windows 8 as a table, but you have to stack like 50 of them for it to be any use. The Ikea Table solutions are much more cost effective.

        • Fractux
        • 7 years ago

        Yes, hank you for poining ou my non working ” ” key.

        Actually, I didn’t even notice I dropped it until you mentioned it.

        Cheers!

    • JohnC
    • 7 years ago

    I just got teh RTM from TechNet… No real improvements in usability compared to RP version, but at least they have added a mini-“tutorial” after installation – before “Tetris” menu appears for first time, they show animation about “move your mouse to this or that corner on display for random shit to pop up” 😉 Anyways, I’m off to torturing myself with this monstrosity – even though I don’t have to use it yet as a primary OS at home, I unfortunately WILL have to deal with it on other people’s PC’s. QQ

      • trackerben
      • 7 years ago

      Not RTM? So it’s the EOL edition – your life.

    • Phartindust
    • 7 years ago

    While I am NOT a fan of Win8 and have no intention of buying/ installing it, I have to say that MS has given us plenty of opportunities to check out Win8. This is what the 4th or 5th chance we’ve had to download and run it as it progressed towards release? Pretty impressive for them. Has Apple ever given us this many looks at their OS before it’s released?

      • LoneWolf15
      • 7 years ago

      They’re hoping the more we test it, the more we might buy it. Too bad they’re wrong.

        • Phartindust
        • 7 years ago

        Lol true, but we can’t say they haven’t tried. To bad they haven’t listened to us.

        • jackbomb
        • 7 years ago

        They might be on to something. I thought each new preview was better than the last. I went from absolutely hating it to [i<]almost[/i<] semi-liking it. If they release 10-15 additional preview builds before October, I might actually buy a copy!

          • Chrispy_
          • 7 years ago

          Stockholm sydrome; There are therpists for this….

      • jstern
      • 7 years ago

      You’re right. I remember a story that came out saying that Microsoft wasn’t going to release as many betas, and they took a lot of backlash, talking about how they don’t care about the consumer etc, and they’re pompous.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      They probably hope we’ll get used to it’s oddities, like having an extra click.
      They tried so hard to put shortcuts in Windows to save us a fraction of a second, and now they’re putting in an extra click right at the beginning of the start up of the system???????

      • streagle27
      • 7 years ago

      Putting lipstick on a pig…

      Ok, correction, lets try again…

      Putting MORE lipstick on a pig…

    • BIF
    • 7 years ago

    I found problems in the RP where IE 10 would not allow me to send any email from either of my web email accounts. I have both yahoo and google, and neither one would read or send email successfully.

    One of my girlfriends was thinking I was ignoring her. I wasn’t, I sent the email, honnest! But it’s not even in my sent items folders, so I couldn’t even prove it if I wanted to.

    There you have it, Windows 8 has already made it harder for me to get dates and I haven’t even bought the damned thing yet!

    Word to the wise, it’s better to test it before you buy.

      • xeridea
      • 7 years ago

      Your mistake was using IE.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago
      • Grigory
      • 7 years ago

      One of your girlfriends? Riiight.

        • Chrispy_
        • 7 years ago

        The one with the pet unicorn.

          • HisDivineOrder
          • 7 years ago

          The one that only he knows about. The one only he can ever speak to. The one that whispers to him in his dreams that he must always put ketchup on everything.

          The one that tells him the other voices aren’t real, but that’s absurd… isn’t it?

    • DeadOfKnight
    • 7 years ago

    If Microsoft offered to pay me $40 to upgrade to Windows 8, I wouldn’t be interested. Well, that’s actually a lie; I’d upgrade a friend’s computer. Not a close friend, though.

      • BIF
      • 7 years ago

      LOL. I plus-one’d you.

      • JohnC
      • 7 years ago

      You’re such a mean, heartless person! I’m glad that I’m not one of your friends! 😉

      • xeridea
      • 7 years ago

      Interesting thought. We should have a mini poll of how much MS would have to pay them to downgrade to Windows 8. I would do it for $50 if I was allowed to seamlessly upgrade to Win7, or $500 if I was forced to keep my downgrade to Win8.

        • BobbinThreadbare
        • 7 years ago

        I’d do it for $10, I’m cheap.

          • Kaleid
          • 7 years ago

          You slut!

        • Majiir Paktu
        • 7 years ago

        I’d be good with $300. Some cash with which to buy Win7 and a new SSD to install it on.

    • tbone8ty
    • 7 years ago

    is this the tablet version?

      • WillBach
      • 7 years ago

      Do you mean RT? What would you install it on? It’s the x86 version (32 or 64-bit).

        • tbone8ty
        • 7 years ago

        oh ok i got confused what RTM ment

          • Shouefref
          • 7 years ago

          You won’t be the last one. RT … RTM…. MS is very good in that kind of confusing names. Remember MS Outlook and Outlook Express? Or Windows Mail and Windows Live Mail?

      • sschaem
      • 7 years ago

      what what !?! Is there a non tablet version of windows8 that I dont know about ?

        • Rand
        • 7 years ago

        No, Microsoft doesn’t believe that desktops and laptops have been invented yet.

          • internetsandman
          • 7 years ago

          Not true, they believe all desktops and laptops (apart from their own of course) will all spontaneously combust unless they adopt windows 8 and use that new interface (whatever name it might have by that time)

    • tootercomputer
    • 7 years ago

    I have the current 64 bit preview version on a 4 year-old laptop. And it just flies with Win 8 and an SSD. It sure seems faster than Win 7.

      • Firestarter
      • 7 years ago

      A fresh install of Windows 7 would feel faster as Windows 7, too. Me thinks the proof is in the has-been-running-for-2-years pudding.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        I actually had a fresh install of Win7 and Win8 RP alongside, and they were pretty darn close. Win8 sometimes feels faster, but when you analyze the situation, turns out Win8 is actually cheating.

        One instance – when dual-booting Win7 & Win8, Win8 feels faster because OS menu is actually a full blown Win8. Post screen to desktop was within few seconds when I did the tests. Doesn’t feel that way when you click on a button though.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          Not true. It is only the same if you’re booting between OS’s. You’ve claimed that before. If you’re comparing win 7 hibernation with 8’s shutdown, then sure. 8 hibernates by default when shutdown. 8 on ssd with single os is pretty much instant boot

            • Airmantharp
            • 7 years ago

            The real question is- why would the OS not automatically hibernate?

            I know people want the option, but saving your running profile to a swap file just makes sense.

      • brucethemoose
      • 7 years ago

      This

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      But SSD carshes easier because of old age than HDD, so you definitively need RAID 1. Only, MS doesn’t like RAID….

    • Firestarter
    • 7 years ago

    Oooohh I’m so excited!

      • LoneWolf15
      • 7 years ago

      That you just can’t hide it?

        • Grigory
        • 7 years ago

        He’s about to lose control and I think he likes it.

          • trackerben
          • 7 years ago

          Girls, please.

            • albundy
            • 7 years ago

            it’s that time of the month for them again on the rag?

    • xeridea
    • 7 years ago

    What improved desktop? Its total utter crap, all monochrome and impossible to read, and Metro everywhere. Oh, but there is an “improved” task manager.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      the right click menu in the bottom left, taskbar across monitors, hot spots to support multitasking are great too. nm the fact it’s faster, explorer has been changed (whether you like it or not is up to you, personally, i do). there are tons of new features. here’s the wikipedia article describing them: [url<]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_new_to_Windows_8[/url<] your post just shows your ignorance. I understand it's "cool", but it is in fact incorrect.

        • sschaem
        • 7 years ago

        Their is TONS of article on how the workflow got dumbed down in windows8 desktop.
        Easy access to common feature are now hidden via multi level popup menu from hot spot.
        Startinmg app require to use the tablet McDonal inspire full screen fast food ordering ‘Modern’ UI.

        No more quick access to recent documents, jumping around to access control panels functions.

        DUDE , check the review, Windows8 desktop is a toal clusterfunk

        This crap appeal to kids and elderly that spend 99% of their time on facebook. for the rest of us this is total BS.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          Review? I’ve been using it forever. Based on the things you’re typing, I don’t think you’ve used it.

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        It is not ignorance. I know what is new and changed, and its junk. Metro is garbage, taskbar across multi-monitor depends on who you ask, I would rather have it stay on one monitor. Hot spots are part of Metro and are therefore useless for desktop. Monochrome file interface is hard to read and ugly. Ribbon system screenshots are terrible, such a huge waste of space for 0 gain. It is faster to boot, and barely faster overall, but what is 4 seconds faster boot compared to all the other crap?

        • Goty
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]... taskbar across monitors...[/quote<] Oh, you mean that thing you can do with any reasonably recent video hardware and Windows 7? your post just shows your ignorance. I understand it's "cool", but it is in fact incorrect.

          • Goty
          • 7 years ago

          I like being down-voted for being right. It sustains me.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          there have been third party programs for it since like xp, but it hasn’t been native. what’s your point?

            • Goty
            • 7 years ago

            Who cares if it’s native if the feature is already ubiquitous? You’re digging for praise for Window 8 whether or not it’s actually warranted.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            ? there are 3 party hacks to restore the start menu, what do you care if the start menu is native? saying it doesn’t matter if it’s native is a bizarre response. you’re being so silly you’re getting downvoted taking the “windows 8 sucks” position. that’s how silly you’re being.

      • Madman
      • 7 years ago

      It’s better to download Process Explorer – [url<]http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx[/url<] and avoid Win 8.

        • Ifalna
        • 7 years ago

        Cool, thanks. That’s a lot of information alright.

          • Madman
          • 7 years ago

          You can download the whole package of tools here – [url<]http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb842062.aspx[/url<] They have fancy stuff that allows converting live Windows install to VHD from within OS, registry monitor, rootkit revealer and bunch of other amazing stuff. Super hardcore, super powerfull.

      • alsoRun
      • 7 years ago

      Why speak in such a tone? Numerous improvements have been made indeed. I may give you a break if you have delivered a far superior operating system yourself. Otherwise, give MS developers some respect. They are not fools just as you are not.

        • sschaem
        • 7 years ago

        Time will tell if you they are fools or not… I bet MS gross margin will go down, from all the reduced pricing & marketing cost Windows8 will require.

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        It’s not the developers, its the idiots who tell them what to make. The speedups and such are not worth the utter crap of an OS interface they cooked up.

          • l33t-g4m3r
          • 7 years ago

          I like the improvements, but the only way I’d consider it is if there was a way to totally remove Metro.

      • BIF
      • 7 years ago

      It’s not “that” desktop that is improved. That’s the Metro, er… “no girlfriend” interface. NoGF is new. And not sexy. It’s very wide, you’ll see… Oh, I’ll shut up now.

      But the point is, you can’t improve a “new” thing because it is… new!

      So what’s left is the “other”desktop that they must be saying was improved. And they still call that one “desktop”.

      Yeah, they removed the “left one”. And I’m not just speaking of the start button… 😉

      From now on, I’m calling the desktop interface “Righty”.

      NoGF on the left, Righty on the right.

      • brucethemoose
      • 7 years ago

      Except for the start button, the desktop is exactly the same.

    • PrincipalSkinner
    • 7 years ago

    There was a rumour years ago that Windows 7 would be the last version that comes in 32-bit flavour. Too bad it isn’t true.

      • jdaven
      • 7 years ago

      It will take way more courage than Microsoft has to officially migrate to 64-bit only.

        • xeridea
        • 7 years ago

        They seem to have lots of courage releasing this aweful OS….

      • internetsandman
      • 7 years ago

      I’m confused, apart from a smaller footprint, what are the upsides to a 32-bit version? Legacy compatibility?

      Then again I’m not sure W8 is intended for anything with more than 4 gigs of memory (and anyone who owns such a machine would be better off not upgrading anyway) so a 64-bit version is also rather questionable in terms of its utility in this scenario (unless there’s other benefits to 64 bit that I’m also demonstrating my ignorance towards?)

        • internetsandman
        • 7 years ago

        Ahhh, down voted for asking a legitimate question, I see

      • destroy.all.monsters
      • 7 years ago

      You would think if pulling its users into the present day were actually a goal this would have come first. They haven’t put out a 32 bit server OS in awhile.

    • Deanjo
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<] Once the 90 days are up, you're done. "It is not possible to upgrade the evaluation to a licensed working version of Windows 8," says Microsoft. "A clean installation is required."[/quote<] That is just plain pathetic considering all the key checks, activation, genuine advantage BS that they have in place.

      • alsoRun
      • 7 years ago

      I am downloading, which is is pretty fast. 90 days is long enough until Oct 26.

        • Deanjo
        • 7 years ago

        The pathetic part is having to reinstall if you decide to purchase it.

        At most, all it should require is entering a valid purchased key and re-activate.

          • alsoRun
          • 7 years ago

          Agreed. Fortunately most people are installing on a 2nd partition or virtual environment.

            • Deanjo
            • 7 years ago

            Another thing that should be pointed out is that if you cannot activate it to the full thing then it really isn’t the “RTM” version. Same build maybe but completely different version.

            Still, not being able to simple change the key and reactivate is, well, completely retarded. Hell they have offered in place upgrades through the Windows Upgrade application for years. It is absolutely sad that after so many decades of Windows they still have not figured out how to do a proper upgrade to the next version. It’s the only OS out there that pulls this kind of crap.

            • xeridea
            • 7 years ago

            It would be an in place downgrade, because they are giving out Enterprise (who would use Win8 in an enterprise anyway?).

            • Deanjo
            • 7 years ago

            Either way, enabling or disabling of features should not require a reinstall.

            [quote<]who would use Win8 in an enterprise anyway?[/quote<] Other then SSK, no IT person that values their job.

            • indeego
            • 7 years ago

            We’ve had a few users request it on day one, even given my warnings. Not all users care about aesthetics, just want latest and greatest.

            • Deanjo
            • 7 years ago

            Versionitis is a horrible disease that is very hard to cure on some people.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            I’m not an IT person. I don’t work in IT, never have. What i care about is pretty, and speed. I’ve said that since day 1.

            As for the “no features for enterprise” angle, that’s just being silly. I’m not saying i expect it to be a great seller. everyone just upgraded to 7. I expect it will bring some new features that will make it to 9, and 9 will sell more.

            It’s a perfectly capable OS, and even if you don’t like metro, it still has plenty of other features. qqing about the start menu is a little overdone. Nerds whine more than a group of 12 year old girls.

            • Deanjo
            • 7 years ago

            It’s not just nerds that complain about the lack of the start menu, it’s more the average user that complains about it. Going back to the little head to head the LUG put on, the number 1 complaint was Metro, once they found the desktop again they were ticked that there was no start menu.

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        Long enough to get annoyed beyond imagination. Tru. 🙂

      • MadManOriginal
      • 7 years ago

      I think it’s awesome because it leads to whiny b**ches complaining about being able to FREELY EVALUATE software for 90 days, no strings attached!

        • Madman
        • 7 years ago

        There is no evaluation, only torture 🙂

          • Deanjo
          • 7 years ago

          Frankly I think Win 8 is just the way MS is trying to discourage piracy. Make it bad enough that nobody wants to pirate it.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 7 years ago

        But say you want to keep it. By the time that 90 days is up, it’ll be available at retail. I can’t just buy a key and keep my stuff installed; I have to reinstall everything AGAIN. I think that’s a valid complaint.

      • flip-mode
      • 7 years ago

      Complaining about free 90 day evaluation = winning tiger blood.

        • derFunkenstein
        • 7 years ago

        No, the complaint is that you can’t then just buy a real key and activate it. That’s retarded.

          • dmjifn
          • 7 years ago

          So pretend the evaluation version doesn’t even exist. Handle the purchase decision like however you handled previous Windows purchase decision. Then you’re no worse off than with any other previous release and everyone’s happy. 🙂

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