Report: Win8 sales below Microsoft targets

At the BUILD conference last month, Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer boasted about Windows 8’s popularity among enthusiasts and businesses. Things may not be quite as rosy as Ballmer suggested, though. According to Paul Thurrott of the eponymous Supersite for Windows, sales of Windows 8 are actually "well below Microsoft’s internal projections."

Thurrott attributes the information to one of his "most trusted sources." The same source also claims Microsoft is blaming PC makers—specifically, their "inability to deliver"—for the disappointing sales. Thurrott sees that finger-pointing as further validation of Microsoft’s Surface strategy, as part of which the company is rolling its own software and hardware together and bypassing PC vendors entirely.

I’d be inclined to agree that compelling PCs that make good use of Windows 8’s touch capabilities seem to be few and far between. Some of those PCs, like the convertible, Intel-powered HP Envy x2, still aren’t available. I don’t know if expecting rapid, groundbreaking innovation out of firms like Dell and HP was entirely realistic on Microsoft’s part, though—if there’s any truth to this rumor.

Thurrott’s track record on these things can be a little hit and miss. However, considering the sudden and unexpected departure of Windows chief Steven Sinofsky last week, some internal displeasure about Windows 8 sales definitely doesn’t seem unlikely. I suppose we’ll have to wait for Microsoft’s next quarterly earnings report to see whether the rumor checks out.

Comments closed
    • deb0
    • 7 years ago

    Earth to Microsoft: if i want to consume content, ill use a tablet. When I have to actually to some work, I need a multitasking operating system with an interface that leverages multitasking. Aka Windows 7.

    • jonjonjon
    • 7 years ago

    is anyone really surprised? i could have told them this. maybe ms should fire whoever does their projections and hire me.

    • digitalnut
    • 7 years ago

    Here’s my current experience with Windows 8 on the desktop.

    Myself: I am mostly in the desktop. I pinned most of my desktop programs to the task bar. I like some of the metro apps like News and the Weather app & Videos. The news app formats the articles nicely on a 1080p screen — works well on wide screen. I tried using the ‘metro’ mode IE, but it wasn’t working out well (e.g. working with multiple tabs). Do miss having some gadgets on the desktop (calendar & world clocks)

    Wife: Initial for my wife, I setup most common task using the tiles, but she found it hard to understand what to do — So back to desktop mode for her.

    Kids: For my kids (who are around 6), they have an easier time working with the ‘metro’ UI. They don’t open 10 copies of IE anymore just to go to their website. Also I just added a ‘shutdown’ tile so they can easily shutdown the computer with a one click. I showed them how to close a ‘metro’ app using the mouse or told them to press the ‘windows’ key. I also removed any tiles that they don’t need and enabled ‘family’ mode under their account.

    Here are two useful articles from Scott Hanselman that made working with Win8 easier:

    [url<]http://www.hanselman.com/blog/Windows8ProductivityWhoMovedMyCheeseOhThereItIs.aspx[/url<] [url<]http://www.hanselman.com/blog/PinningUsefulAndObscureStuffToTheWindows8StartMenu.aspx[/url<]

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      So, to paraphrase, Windows 8 with Metro is for kids. You’re dissatisfied with Metro but tolerating it because the artificially imposed gadget removal from W7 is partly resolved by having the equivalent Metro apps.

      So, basically unless you are a child, the desktop is still better than Metro and Metro is filling the role of gadgets and widgets for you rather than being a fundamental part of the OS.

      Sounds about right to me 😉

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        who doesn’t still use the desktop on a windows 8 desktop? it is included for a reason.

    • link626
    • 7 years ago

    sinofsky fkd it up.

    after using windows 8 for a bit on a vm, I wish I could make the metro tiles smaller. They take up too much space

    • Pan Skrzetuski
    • 7 years ago

    It is amusing that Ballmer claims Win8 is popular among enthusiasts and businesses. Those are the groups that seem least pleased with the new OS.

    I understand the desire though – the enthusiasts can lead the collective consumer mind, while business sales are high margin and have a low likelihood of platform switching in the near term.

    • Malphas
    • 7 years ago

    I think a lot of you don’t seem to understand that “falling short of internal targets” != selling badly. No-one outside Microsoft actually knows the sales figures yet, all these stories are based on is one shaky and vague source, odds are they’re still shifting a massive number of copies, and things like it being the bestselling piece of software on Amazon right now, and simply the fact it’s – as always – bundled with every new PC sold are indicative of that.

    Also, some of you could be doing with reading this to put things in perspective, before you get too carried away in your anti-Windows 8 delusions: [url<]http://www.zdnet.com/windows-8-is-the-new-xp-7000006095/[/url<]

    • paulpod
    • 7 years ago

    New Coke didn’t sell because IT DIDN’T TASTE LIKE COKE.

    Windows 8 didn’t sell because IT DOESN’T WORK LIKE WINDOWS.

    Why can’t the arrogant geniuses at MS see the truth and make the obvious fixes:

    A real desktop mode where apps/programs open IN WINDOWS and never take over the screen. A desktop where the next thing to do is ALWAYS VISIBLE (direct click or with a right-click on something that IS VISIBLE). A desktop DESIGNED for a mouse that can precisely traverse a 27″ monitor with 1″ motions using a hand that is in a comfortable position.

    Hell, just do it and name it Windows Classic.

    One usability flaw example: What happens in a fullscreen Windows 8 app (or config dialog) when you need to enter information based on something displayed in a desktop program? And don’t say the klunky/kludgy split-screen travesty. This is a deal-breaker. On the current desktop that info would be right in front of you with no action except maybe moving some windows around.

      • MadManOriginal
      • 7 years ago

      The one thing that does truly bother me about Win 8 is when I’m on the desktop and open a file by double clicking that has a ‘Metro UI program.’ The program takes over the screen and switches to Metro UI – this happens with pdf’s for example and it kills workflow. Windows should be aware of which mode I’m in and stay in that mode.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        why don’t you just set your default programs, like you would in 7?

        • ludi
        • 7 years ago

        You can force PDF files to open with a conventional viewer (Adobe Reader or third-party whatever) and view them on the desktop, instead. Same procedure as always: Shift+Right Click, “Open With…”, and then set that program as default.

      • Vasilyfav
      • 7 years ago

      How about switchable desktops that Linux had for years.

    • MadManOriginal
    • 7 years ago

    There is one simple change MS could have done to make Windows 8 on x86 a compelling upgrade…no, I don’t mean the Start menu. They could have made the ‘Start screen/charm’ [i<]be[/i<] the desktop background instead of a separate screen. A 'Live Desktop' would have been pretty cool imo and allowed for real multitasking with background program information displayed. I have a hard time thinking that this idea did not come up inside MS, so I wonder, if it did come up, when it got killed and why. It would have to be more than 'force people to the app store' for x86. I could see how a 'start charm desktop' would be a little awkward in some ways - am I 'on the Start charm' or 'on my desktop program windows'; maybe making the Start charm darken a bit when it's not the focus would work - but it wouldn't have changed the use paradigms everyone is used to quite so much (just press that Windows key or mouse to lower left) while still advancing the similar look and feel across devices. A live Start screen as a sizable window would be cool too.

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      I think they should have added an extra icon on the desktop, and if you clicked on it, you would be in the Modern Style UI. Desktop users wouldn’t have been hindered.

      • tcunning1
      • 7 years ago

      Great idea!

    • GasBandit
    • 7 years ago

    I don’t want to turn my PC into an iPad with no touchscreen that my favorite game developers hate and fear. Here’s hoping windows 8 gets shoved in the same hole Windows ME was.

    • satchmobob
    • 7 years ago

    I really don’t get all the hate for 8! The start menu is still there, it just fills your screen now. The desktop is still there and the majority of programs business users will need still open there.
    IMO all the hate is because a few people didn’t like the betas and didn’t give themselves time to adjust and now everyone jumped on the bandwagon like sheep and spew the same parroted drivel every time someone mentions Windows 8.

    Personally I’ve already bought two copies and will probably get two more before the year is out. At the price its going for it’s a no brainer!

      • MadManOriginal
      • 7 years ago

      People don’t like change and don’t want to learn the tricks to make using Windows 8 efficiently, or think conceptually different about how to do things. Once I looked into the keyboard shortcuts and, to a lesser extent, how to use the mouse to do certain things for Win 8 I found a lot of fast ways to do things. In some ways the keyboard navigation is better with Windows 8 than Windows 7…don’t all the nerds with mechanical keyboards appreciate that? 🙂

      Anyhow, it’s all the same as any other UI change in Windows. People disliked XP at first, disliked Vista at first, and a lot of the dislike was because of the UI. I can see old people who don’t want to learn some new tricks getting upset, but tech lovers shouldn’t have as much of a problem.

      • sschaem
      • 7 years ago

      I think the argument that windows8 get better over time is not true.

      The first week with windows8 was kind of disappointing but not bad because its all new.
      The issue come when you start to actually use the computer on a day to day basis.

      The windows7 start menu is efficient, non invasive, flexible, mouse friendly.
      Something that cant be said for the metro full screen panel…
      But that just the tip of the iceberg MS slammed into.
      Charms bars on the desktop are also not user friendly.

      Anyways, people made their choice.

      • cphite
      • 7 years ago

      Well, obviously it’s not a “no brainer” if people still aren’t buying it despite the low price.

      If you like the interface then great. But to imply that those of us who don’t like it just didn’t give it time, or that we’re just jumping on a bandwagon is – frankly – offensive and stupid.

      I have no problem with change. But I want that change to be for the sake of improvement. And that is where Windows 8 fails in my view. The interface is ugly and clunky, and very intrusive; and really doesn’t add any value in return. There is nothing about it that stands out as working better for me as a desktop user.

      Windows 8 is designed for touch devices. It’s designed for people who use their device to consume content. And for that, it works just fine. But for those of us who do a lot of multitasking, who actually use the computer for serious work, it’s actually a step backwards in many ways.

      Microsoft has decided that they don’t care about that; they’re willing to gamble that they’ll sell enough copies of it to tablet and phone users that the rest of us will simply fall in line. Personally, I think that they’re going to regret making that bet.

      And no, I’m not one of those people who thinks that this will be the death of Microsoft. But I do think it’s going to be a very serious failure, and a very serious embarrassment to them. Time will tell, but the sales numbers thus far are supporting that view.

        • Chrispy_
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]Windows 8 is designed for touch devices. It's designed for people who use their device to consume content. And for that, it works just fine. But for those of us who do a lot of multitasking, who actually use the computer for serious work, it's actually a step backwards in many ways.[/quote<] Just repeating this because when saying this to people who like Windows 8, it falls on deaf ears.

        • brute
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]But for those of us who do a lot of multitasking, who actually use the computer for serious work, it's actually a step backwards in many ways. [/quote<] What would those ways be?

          • Beelzebubba9
          • 7 years ago

          …yeah I haven’t been able to figure this one out yet. For the desktop power user, what’s actually a step back in Windows 8?

          The only answer I’ve heard is ‘OMG START MENU’ but I always thought the Start menu was a pretty cruddy UI paradigm and have been using the built in search function or the taskbar to launch both apps and open files since I moved to Windows 7 years ago. Obviously other users will have different experiences and preferences, but I personally don’t see the big deal with replacing a start menu with a start page.

        • Voldenuit
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]Well, obviously it's not a "no brainer" if people still aren't buying it despite the low price.[/quote<] Exactly. I'm pretty much a poster child for a Win8 prospective customer. I just bought a touch+pen enabled laptop for my wife for xmas, and we're eligible to upgrade to win8 pro for a measly $15. However, I find myself mulling this decision and am still undecided whether to pull the trigger or not. For starters, I'm not sure if all her CAD/Design software will make the transition smoothly. I'm also not sure if she will like the new UI (we've actually had access to a pre-production surface tablet, and while it's alright for playing jetpack joyride/wordament/angry birds star wars, it's a little klunky for actual work). Lastly, many of the technical innovations in Win8 (tickless system timer, low power connected state, etc.) haven't yet materialized the real world gains that were promised (battery life in win8 in tests I've read have been lower rather than higher; this may change as the drivers and OS get updated). So, on the fence. And I'm probably not the only one.

      • ludi
      • 7 years ago

      I’m finding a lot of things I like in Win8, but mostly because I still work mainly from the desktop. When it comes to the MUI apps, everything is horribly kludgy. The only thing that works to bridge the gap is the Start Screen, because if the required Start area exceeds the available screen area, it will scroll simply by moving the mouse to the edge of the screen.

      In any of the MUI apps, I have one of two instincts to scroll horizontally: Either move the mouse to the edge of the screen, just like the Start Screen, or else mimic a touchscreen swipe by clicking and dragging the mouse to “drag” the screen sideways. Interestingly, both of these instincts are involuntary, and it’s rather jarring when [i<]neither of them works[/i<]. Yup: once you launch a metro app, any mouse navigation must be done using scrollbar functions which, in keeping with Microsoft's new minimalist approach to the UI elements, are now much harder to see. This is baffling stupid.

      • rrr
      • 7 years ago

      Why should we bother with “taking time to adjust”? If it is required, you should get something in return, that you wouldn’t get otherwise. And in case of Win 8 that is?

      Nothing really…

    • PA55ER
    • 7 years ago

    Of course, they (sales) are lower. Microsoft failed to provide customers and even partners with vital and complete information about FPP and changes to OEM product licensing options and even published false info on its own OEM licensing related pages, till they corrected FAQ in mid November. Now information [url=http://www.microsoft.com/oem/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/personal-use-license.aspx#fbid=Qr0v_yBu0kM<]here is correct[/url<]. But [u<]it still is not[/u<] on many other pages in other languages, as in mid November updated pages, still stating in FAQ that consumers can’t use their Windows 8 OEM PUL product once installed apart this particular PC even if they removed this Windows 8 OEM PUL product from this PC. Of course, consumers won’t buy such restrictive product instead of Retail FPP Windows 7. What a fail! The only information about opportunity to buy FPP was [url=http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/upgrade-to-windows-8<]this page[/url<], but again not for the rest of the non-english world. Corresponding section about opportunity to purchase a full version of Windows 8 appeared on non-english pages only in mid November and again with translation issues related to critical info. Fail again!

    • Diplomacy42
    • 7 years ago

    MSFT bet the company on win 8, which was a stupid move from day one, hour one. I’m glad that they aren’t losing their shirt on this, but I’m also glad that they aren’t being financially rewarded for win 8.

    • cphite
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<]The same source also claims Microsoft is blaming PC makers—specifically, their "inability to deliver"—for the disappointing sales.[/quote<] Surely it couldn't have anything to do with the inability of Microsoft to deliver a decent user interface. I think what they're going to find is that a lot of users (also known as their customers) don't like using a clunky smartphone interface on our desktops and laptops; that those of us who are using keyboards and mice actually prefer an interface designed for use with a keyboard and mouse. And gee, it's not like any of us users spoke up or anything...

      • internetsandman
      • 7 years ago

      Trying to spread a single user interface over every class of device (phone, tablet, laptop, desktop) was their mistake, and while I don’t want to call it laziness or a lack of effort, the fact that they avoided designing separate UI’s based on the strengths and weakness of each platform, and instead said that what you have on your 4 inch phone screen should be as identical as possible to your 24 inch monitor, that’s where they went wrong

    • Price0331
    • 7 years ago

    The surface will fail too. If people want a vertically integrated platform this holiday season, it will be between a kindle or an iPad. If people are going to drop that much money on a product they want a brand that will give them the most for their money. I don’t think microsoft is properly communicating the benefits of their platform, if there are any.

    • HammerSandwich
    • 7 years ago

    How is Thurrott’s 2nd claim (that ARM Win8 wouldn’t run desktop apps) a miss? Sure, there’s a desktop, but when you can’t use all of your old x86 programs…

      • ludi
      • 7 years ago

      The “miss” is that Microsoft indicated they would remove the desktop entirely from Windows RT, since there would be no desktop program support. They didn’t, and apparently some applications (Office RT, I think) still launch from the desktop, which is downright dumb — it creates a disconnect in how the tablet environment is supposed to “feel” without adding the option to actually run a desktop environment.

    • drfish
    • 7 years ago

    4/[who really knows] of my PCs at home are running Win8 already. Still really enjoying it. *shrug*

    • spigzone
    • 7 years ago

    Looking forward to Valvux 1.0.

    • Archer
    • 7 years ago

    It’s really quite telling that MS are blaming others for their own problems. Next up? Ballmer will blame Obama for something.

    • Shouefref
    • 7 years ago

    Problems are popping up with batteries and sim’s on Windows Phone 8.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<] Problems are popping up with batteries and sim's on devices that run Windows Phone 8 [/quote<] ftfy. those are OEM issues. now we're back to why MS needs to build their own devices to deal with the OEM's.

    • cheesyking
    • 7 years ago

    Thing is that people have got used to the idea that Windows laptops are cheap. You put decent touch screen on a laptop and suddenly it isn’t cheap any more. Touch screens aren’t cheap and neither are the fancy hinges you need to turn a laptop into a convertible.

    • sweatshopking
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<] Update: Based on the feedback, some have misunderstood this post: Microsoft has not met is internal projections for Windows 8 sales. Given this, as it’s happened, I provided some possible explanations for what went wrong (in addition to Microsoft’s finger pointing at PC makers). Those are simply my best guesses, not "facts," and certain debatable. But you can expect Microsoft to eventually release sales numbers for Windows 8, numbers that it will use to prove (or at least contort) that everything’s just fine. That doesn’t change the central premise here, which is the reason I published this post: Internally, Microsoft is blaming PC makers for Windows 8’s slower-than-it-expected start. But I think it’s more nuanced than that. Even Vista sold hundreds of millions of copies a year. Windows 8 will certainly do better than that. [/quote<] sooo we're worried they'll have to settle for "hundreds of millions of copies a year"? geez, that's rough.

      • superjawes
      • 7 years ago

      Inorite? It’s almost as bad as when Apple’s business didn’t grow as much as investors predicted.

    • kamikaziechameleon
    • 7 years ago

    could it be because basic things like media center cost extra now or the rather poorly conveyed value in the fact that they only are selling upgrades and OEM licenses and no straight forward license like they did for every other version of windows. How about the fact that the new start screen isn’t as well integrated with the desktop as it could and should be. Why can’t we get tiles on the desktop??? So many apparent issues and design short falls.

    • odizzido
    • 7 years ago

    Microsoft releases the full version DX11.1 for W8 only to drive sales. Zero games use it. Effect: Zero increased sales.

      • bcronce
      • 7 years ago

      I’m not sure what DX11.1 and games have to do with anything. I’m pretty sure the whole Metro/Modern UI is the sole reason.

    • l33t-g4m3r
    • 7 years ago

    I can’t possibly see why, after all Metro is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and most people would rather buy a tiny underpowered vendor lock-in RT tablet than a desktop or laptop, according to all the Microsoft associated reviews. All big desktop users must love using a touch screen interface with a kb/m too, especially after using a start menu for 10+ years, so this makes absolutely no sense. I bet this news is made up. After all, there’s only a few random complainers, and their opinion doesn’t count because I say so. Microsoft should be making money hand over fist for copying Apple, even though they were the alternative for people deliberately avoiding that. It’s just so amazingly easy to jump into Apple’s marketshare when they have better name recognition among brainless trendies, and a bigger software library than RT. Best idea ever, and nobody should be fired. In fact, let’s just ignore all sales data, user complaints, steam on linux, etc, and keep pushing this failure onto the users until we become the next Hostess. We’ll call it Twinkies 9. That’ll teach em.

      • destroy.all.monsters
      • 7 years ago

      So they won’t be charms, they’ll be Twinkles?

      Damn now I want a breakfast of Twinkies and Lucky Charms – I’ll send you the dentist’s bill. 😉

      • Shouefref
      • 7 years ago

      You sound like SSK.

      At least partly.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        the reality is that you guys have an opinion. nothing more.

        you calling scott and cyril MS biased? they gave it favorable reviews.

        i get you don’t like it. cool. i don’t like android, even new versions. I prefer iOS or wp to android. is that opinion shared by everyone? no. pretending or getting upset about what a COMPANY IS DOING WITH THEIR OWN PRODUCT IS INSANE. YOU’RE ACTING LIKE THEY OWE YOU SOMETHING. if you don’t like it, don’t buy it, but stop the insane ramblings.

          • theadder
          • 7 years ago

          They don’t owe us a product that we want. This is the beginning of the financial pressure that they will experience if they don’t provide it, though.

          There’s a difference between the two.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            which is fine. don’t buy it. it’s the entitled attitude that’s annoying.

          • Shouefref
          • 7 years ago

          Come on, SSK.
          You don’t seem to want to acknowledge some basic facts either:
          1 You don’t want to acknowledge that if somebody doesn’t want it, that somebody doesn’t want it, irrespective of whether the thing is good or not
          2 We can notice lots of people don’t want W8
          3 W8 is not aimed at desktop users, but at tablet pc users and smartphone users. Which makes it irrelevant for desktop users.

          Also:
          Somebody once said that TR is biased against W8, and only linked to negative articles about W8, but it’s a fact lots of sites and magazines have objections and second thoughts about W8, and lots of people don’t want W8.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            1. no. i understand that. i just don’t get the whining.
            2. sure. it SELLS MILLIONS OF COPIES A YEAR. IF 1% DIDN’T LIKE IT, THAT’S STILL A TON OF PEOPLE.
            3. i agree it’s AIMED at tablet users, but that doesn’t make it irrelevant for desktop. i don’t think it realistically impacts desktop productivity. the ONLY thing i miss from 7 is the inclusion of files, settings, and programs in the search.

            I don’t agree that lots of people and reviews have objections. it’s a major change. I just think that you’re forgetting that lots of us DO like it, scott and cyril included, and you pretend that the outcry is universal. that’s my point.

        • l33t-g4m3r
        • 7 years ago

        That’s what I was going for actually, and apparently nailed it. Tx. I didn’t even have to give any hints other than summarizing his POV.

          • NeelyCam
          • 7 years ago

          Good job! You forgot to mention WP8, though

      • kamikaziechameleon
      • 7 years ago

      I don’t know if you every actually use operating systems after xp but iOS, Android, and Win8 are HUGELY different to use. If microsoft was going to be copying one OS it is closer to android but guess what MS had desktop gadgets first, (now known as widgets) and that is the main similarity.

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        Probably MS didn’t do as much with widgets as the others did, but apart from that: you might be right.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          they did a fair bit with widgets, but they weren’t used that much, so they’re actually killed in windows 8, and made into live tiles.

        • willmore
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<] If microsoft was going to be copying one OS it is closer to android but guess what MS had desktop gadgets first, (now known as widgets) and that is the main similarity.[/quote<] Desktop gadgets, like MacOS had back in the late 80's/early 90's?

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          the same.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      [quote<] their opinion doesn't count because their not shareholders at this point. it will count when the quarterly report comes in, and we look at sales. As that's how consumers impact direction, not through entitled whining (which is hilarious coming from l33t, the anti entitlement king), but through making economic purchases [/quote<] ftfy

    • destroy.all.monsters
    • 7 years ago

    There’s got to be a betting pool at MS as to how long Ballmer has left. That’s going to be a big pot and nice vacation for someone there.

      • theadder
      • 7 years ago

      So long as he doesn’t find out before he goes.

      • kvndoom
      • 7 years ago

      Nope he’ll just fire everyone but himself.

        • Noigel
        • 7 years ago

        The Micropolyse.

        Err… Microggedon.

    • Krogoth
    • 7 years ago

    Windows 8 = Mainstream market

    Microsoft’s biggest and most profitable marketshare in the OS arena isn’t the mainstream market. It is the enterprise and SMB segments. Windows 8 doesn’t make any sense for this crowd. They don’t care for touchscreen-friendly UI nor the build-in app-store front-end. They are going to stick with Windows 7 bandwagon until Microsoft or somebody else makes something compelling enough to be worth the pains of upgrading.

      • destroy.all.monsters
      • 7 years ago

      I’ve been saying this from the jump. There are really no compelling upgrades in this OS to make it worth their while and worse they have to spend money to train on the new UI.

        • sweatshopking
        • 7 years ago

        so has krogs. he’s been saying it for months. the same post.

          • Meadows
          • 7 years ago

          So true.
          Well done, sweatshopking!

          • destroy.all.monsters
          • 7 years ago

          lol.

          Actually I think he did do a copypaste from the other day but that was a day I didn’t have time to comment.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            lol, i love how you’re +1, and i’m -4 for the same comment.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            It’s random – why did Krogs get +34 when I’ve gotten downvoted for saying the same thing? No idea.

            I noticed yesterday that all my posts on both pages I was commenting on got -1’ed at the exact same time and there were zero comments. I guess some folks just pick favorites.

            OTOH I accidentally just downvoted you because my keyboard slipped and I clicked the down button instead of the Submit reply button 🙁 so maybe there’s some of that . No clue.

            I think a lot of it is a popularity contest more than anything else.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            it is a popularity contest. that picture dpaus posted of me was my downfall. peeps got jealous of my tight abs, and since have been down voting. haters and the game and all that.

      • Scrotos
      • 7 years ago

      Yeah but they are using Win8 to drive adoption of their app store. I don’t see enterprise volume license customers saying, oh, let’s install everything from the app store!

      I think Win8 is more important to MS than you’re making out since they are trying so hard to build their own “walled garden” as the kids these days like to call it.

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      This.

      Microsoft are crapping on their most important customers in an attempt to chase sales in a crowded market. Compared to the abundance of free apps, applications and utilites, the Microsoft store is going to have a hard time gaining momentum for paid content. It’s not like Apple or Android where you’re limited in what works with your platform – this is Windows, the original home and environment for the [b<]vast majority of all software ever written[/b<]. In other news, to gain favour in the Enterprise market, Microsoft will have to give IT managers a reason to migrate. I'm not seeing one here and I'm fortunately in a shared-tenancy building and chat to other IT managers. They talk to their IT buddies and I talk to mine. To date, I've heard of nobody who would dare roll out Windows8 in its current format across a domain. I mean, you'd have to be mad, or near-suicidally depressed and "doing it for the lolz" because you sure as hell couldn't do it and claim sanity.

      • Thresher
      • 7 years ago

      Krogoth is right. There will be very little demand for this in the enterprise market.

      Specifically because of the amount of retraining it will take for people to become proficient with the OS. I’d estimate 80% of our user base has no real conception of how the underlying OS really works. They just know they press this and this and that and their app opens up. Changing this and this and that means retraining. That cost to company like mine, with around 200,000 workstations and laptops in place is HUGE.

      Something that could simply be avoided by giving us back the Start button. None of our apps will EVER use the Metro (or whatever it’s called now) interface, they will always be windowed applications. Win 8 offers absolutely nothing to us that we can’t already get done with Win 7.

      • btb
      • 7 years ago

      Windows 8 reminds me of Windows ME. I remember people hating on windows ME alot. It actually worked OK for me back then, you just had to disable alot of crap in order to bring it to parity with windows 98. But once you did it was OK. It appears Windows 8 is similar, you have to tweak and get rid of metro UI, and then you can enjoy a good operating system. But for alot of people the extra effort needed is not worth it.

        • ludi
        • 7 years ago

        Errr, I take your intended point, but it’s not really the same. Windows Me was Microsoft’s first commercial attempt at implementing both System Restore and Windows Driver Model, neither of which was quite ready for prime time in that OS release. As such, the OS was fundamentally unstable. Windows 8 has none such problems and includes some significant architectural and administrative improvements over Windows 7.

        The biggest problems are centered in the UI experience.

    • tanker27
    • 7 years ago

    Report: Duh!

      • Chrispy_
      • 7 years ago

      Best paraphrase today, have a cookie.

      • Sargent Duck
      • 7 years ago

      Beat me to it. Judging by the reaction of enthusiasts to the lack of the start menu over the past many months, this is no surprise. Despite no compelling upgrades from Windos 7 (technically), I’d have bought the upgrade if there was a start menu and Metro could be bypassed (I just found it annoying to use in the beta).

      What Microsoft needs to do is not point fingers, but work with vendors. Windows XP and Andoid both started off slow and now look at them now.

        • James296
        • 7 years ago

        that’s the two things that are keeping me from upgrading.

        • Shouefref
        • 7 years ago

        I don’t understand why MS didn’t decide to put the start button and start menu back in after all that outcry.
        After all, leaving those things out takes away people’s orientation point. Very stupid to do that.

    • Arclight
    • 7 years ago

    [quote<]Microsoft is blaming PC makers—specifically, their "inability to deliver"—for the disappointing sales[/quote<] and [quote<]Thurrott sees that finger-pointing as further validation of Microsoft's Surface strategy, as part of which the company is rolling its own software and hardware together and bypassing PC vendors entirely.[/quote<] Insert scumbag Steve meme here.

      • sweatshopking
      • 7 years ago

      that’s right. we’ve all been SOOO impressed with what the OEM’s are capable of producing, that’s why apple has cornered the high end market, and hp, dell, acer, etc. are universally panned as producing garbage. yeah, they should have just continued down that path. that was working great.

        • Arclight
        • 7 years ago

        I’m not even gonna try to defend OEMs but seing whose pointing the finger i’ll reserve the right to have my personal assumption on whose fault it is. If i’m wrong i’m certain financial results will show truth. Right now i’m blaming Windows 8.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          well, that makes little sense. there aren’t compelling systems to even purchase it on. OEM’s failed. they knew touch screen support was a must, and failed to deliver it. hence the surface. how is that MS’s fault? your point makes no sense in the real world.

            • Arclight
            • 7 years ago

            [quote=”sweatshopking”<]your point makes no sense in the real world.[/quote<] Funny you should say that, just last week i was reading an article about OEMs complaining about poor sales and blaming it on the lack of Windows 8 adoption by the great unwashed. Their argument is that if Windows 8 was popular people would feel compelled to upgrade their system or replace them completly (and i agree with that train of thought). But that didn't happen and sales were underwhelming as a result. I'll stop here since i feel like i'm forced to take the OEMs side and i don't want to. All i want to do is point out Microsoft's failure to understand what their usual customers really wanted and the financial results should mirror that failure.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            i’ll sell you some software for a bmw, and package it with a ford. let me know how many you wanna buy. Geez!?!?! nobody wants to buy this from me!?!?!? wtf?!!?!?

            • Arclight
            • 7 years ago

            When we get to car analogies it’s clear we can’t come to an understanding…..

            • Sahrin
            • 7 years ago

            It’s more like, when one person refuses to acknowledge reality because they dislike Windows 8 so.

            • brute
            • 7 years ago

            more like 2 guys who fail to realize that companies and their PR arms will never accept responsibility for fear of how the market will react

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            You just know i’m right. the hardware doesnt match the software, and as such, the product isn’t as great as it could be. that’s an OEM failure, not a MS failure. i’m not saying win 8 is perfect, it isn’t. but dell, hp, etc have been bleeding for years. them saying “oh no! it’s win 8’s fault” is like 5 years too late. they’ve sucked forever.

            • BabelHuber
            • 7 years ago

            I wouldn’t call this an OEM failure only:

            – A new Windows version usually encourages customers to buy a new PC. The thinking is ‘my PC is pretty old already anyways and a new Windows has been released, so perhaps it is time for something new’.

            This doesn’t currently work because of two issues:

            – Windows 8 is not very popular

            – Upgrade cycles for PCs get longer. Lots of people who spent money on phones and tablets probably wait a little longer before they also buy a new PC.

            OTOH OEMs could have made more notebooks with touch screens, but I don’t know the supply situation and the prices for 15.4′ touchscreen displays…

            • Thresher
            • 7 years ago

            OEMs HAVE made notebooks with touchscreens. Lots of ’em.

            Problem is that those screens are expensive, so to keep prices in line, they are shortchanging other hardware to keep the costs in line. The choice is between an underpowered touch screen or one with good hardware that foregoes the touchscreen. Without a touchscreen, Win 8 loses much of its appeal.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            links?
            such as [quote<] I'd be inclined to agree that compelling PCs that make good use of Windows 8's touch capabilities seem to be few and far between. Some of those PCs, like the convertible, Intel-powered HP Envy x2, still aren't available. [/quote<] the fact is there AREN'T any reasonably good systems available. atom HP for 1k?!?!?!?!! WTF?!!?? you DON'T THINK THAT'S OEM FAILURE?!?! there are a few systems STARTING to trickle out, but they're still WAYYYY too expensive, and not really advertised. what compelling stories have you heard from HP, or Dell or Acer, or Asus about what you can ACTUALLY DO with their systems?! none! because they don't have any decent systems!

            • kvndoom
            • 7 years ago

            Deep breaths my friend. Seriously.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            I….. CAN’T….. EVER….. BREATHE!!!!!

            • BabelHuber
            • 7 years ago

            They are way too expensive because the BOM gets more expensive when you add a touch display.

            It’s a simple matter of supply and demand – currently such displays are expensive but the costs will get down over time – if Notebooks with touch become popular.

            The mass-market notebook business has slim margins anyways, so bloating the BOM is dangerous in general.

            I haven’t missed a touchscreen on my notebook, BTW, so no matter what I’ll stick with Win 7 for the moment.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            i don’t agree. we can sell tablets for less than 200$, but once you put it on a notebook suddenly it costs 1000$?

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            Are you stating that the OEMs are deliberately undermining MS?

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            no, i’m stating that oem’s are horrible, and they produce cheap junk, that nobody wants to buy, then blame somebody else.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            You could make a convincing argument in the handset arena but having had some (and worked with other) solid OEM hardware on the pc side I’m not sure that’s as black and white.

            Once I wiped the crapware off of some Sony’s I thought they were really good machines, Asus makes good stuff as well. However, I’m talking about across the board not just Win 8 gear and I’m not sure if you are.

            • sweatshopking
            • 7 years ago

            i didn’t say ALL oem’s, lenovo is doing banging. Sony is having major issues, but i think that’s for a variety of reasons. the big players, though, dell, acer, and HP, by volume, generally produce crappy machines.

            i would say that across the board they generally make crap. they’ve been sucking for years, and their financial statements reflect that.

            • destroy.all.monsters
            • 7 years ago

            Fair enough. I can see how HP has dug its own grave – and when Dell was more frequently using proprietary hardware I could see that more (though I’ve generally enjoyed servicing them – their website is pretty awesome support wise).

            • no51
            • 7 years ago

            You forget the cardinal rule of pointing fingers on the internet: As long as Microsoft is involved, it’s their fault.

      • Sahrin
      • 7 years ago

      >Insert scumbag Steve meme here.

      It’s only scumbag if it isn’t 100% true. When was the last time a PC OEM launched a Windows product you were as excited about as Surface RT/Pro?

        • Voldenuit
        • 7 years ago

        [quote<]When was the last time a PC OEM launched a Windows product you were as excited about as Surface RT/Pro?[/quote<] Maybe our priorities differ, but I can remember multiple products which I found more exciting than Surface, many of them within the last year. Off the top of my head: lenovo Thinkpad X1 carbon lenovo Thinkpad Tablet 2 lenovo Ideapad Yoga hp envy 14 sony VAIO Z ASUS Zenbook Prime UX31 I've had on-and-off access to a Surface prototype for a while, and while the build quality is good, the components don't justify the price. Mind you, many of the laptops I've listed are expensive/overpriced, but the Surface is meant to be a mainstream device, so it has to at least be attractive pricewise. Surface really needs to drop $100-150 in price, especially since there is so little free space compared to advertised capacity (16 GB free on 32 GB model and 45 GB free on 64 GB model). A 32 GB Surface just isn't comparable to a 32 GB Android or iOS tablet when it comes to media storage capacity.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          how many of those had lineups? YOU were excited but average consumers weren’t. i’m looking forward to the surface pro, not the RT, (not that i’ll buy one, it’s nowhere near in the budget) but it was the first MS product that people were really excited for in a LONG time.

          • sweatshopking
          • 7 years ago

          i agree with you about the storage, but i would say it has advantages. how many android tablets can i plug my printer into and have it work? drivers take up space, but you’re right, they need to fix the current system.

      • l33t-g4m3r
      • 7 years ago

      Ballmer – Sinofsky – Kineko. I think MS has a Steve fetish.

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